RFE notification by email

[zyggy 9]

Time to try and sort out the RFE...

The facts

- on husbands 2005 tax return he did not make 125% of the PG for 2 people due to a low paying job between November 2004 & March 2005

- husbands current income exceeds PG for 2 people. Job started in March/April 2005, income from this job has always been over the 125% but that of course won't be reflected until 2006 tax returns are done.

in section 4 of the I864 it says "The greatest weight in determining elegibility will be placed on current employment and household income..." How do we draw attention to their own guidelines and get through this?

Also, husband didn't fill out part 4C correctly. It wanted the info from his tax return, in the Sponsor's individual income field he put his current salary. <---- could this discrepency be the possible cause of the RFE? They weren't able to match his claimed income with the provided tax infoWould re-doing the I-864 satisfy them?

Options

- Use his father as co-sponsor. He owns his own business and his personal income on his tax return is $120,000+. Would his I-864 have to be for 3 people (him, his wife, me) or 4 (him, his wife, my husband, me).

If we go this route please confirm that he would have to provide his birth certificate (he's a USC) as well as 3 years of tax transcripts since he owns his own business as well as having the I-864 notarized.

I really don't want to go the co-sponsor route unless it's our only option. We also can't use the house because we don't have an up-to-date appraisal on it, the last one was based on 1999 values.

I've been pretty calm throughout this whole process, this finally got to me.

C.

You have three choices:

1) You can try to provide more evidence that he currently makes more than 125% above the poverty line by way of current check stubs, and perhaps another employment letter in case they did not notice the first one and other pertinent evidence

2) You can provide a co-sponsor to show that there is sufficient support for you. And to note, the I-864 does require that the co-sponsor provide proof of US Citizenship or Permanent Residency, so evidence to establish that fact isnot out of line.

3) You can send the RFE back and instruct them to adjudicate the petition based on the evidence already in their possession. (not the best idea)

To get a better idea on this, I submit the following from the USCIS Policy Memorandum dated November 23, 2005 (bolding mine).

USCIS officers shall, as a general rule, determine the sufficiency of a Form I-864 based upon whether evidence in the file establishes that the sponsor has the means to maintain an annual income at the applicable threshold set forth in the Form I-864P, Poverty Guidelines, from the calendar year in which the Form I-864 was filed. Accordingly, adjudicators shall determine whether the current income listed on Form I-864 is at least 125% (or 100% as applicable) of the governing threshold set forth in the Poverty Guidelines. Adjudicators shall also determine whether the sponsor’s total income (line 22 on the 2004 IRS Form 1040, line 15 on the 2004 IRS Form 1040A), or adjusted gross income for those who filed IRS Form 1040EZ (line 4 of the 2004 IRS Form 1040EZ), meets the Poverty Guidelines threshold. Note, when reviewing the prior year's tax return submitted with the Form I-485, USCIS officers should judge the income information against the poverty guidelines applicable at the time of submission.

USCIS policy regarding Form I-864, Affidavit of Support

If the information on the tax return establishes that the sponsor’s current income meets the threshold set forth in the Form I-864P, Poverty Guidelines, the adjudicator shall determine that the Form I-864 is sufficient without requesting any further evidence. The adjudicator should request additional evidence (i.e., employment letter(s), pay stub(s), or other financial data) only if the tax return reflects income below the Form I-864P, Poverty Guidelines and the record does not already contain additional evidence that would establish the sponsor meets the current income requirements. The adjudicator should also request additional evidence (i.e., employment letter(s), pay stub(s), or other financial data) if there is a specific reason (other than the passage of time) to question the veracity of the income stated on Form I-864 or the accompanying document(s).

If the officer determines that the tax return and/or the evidence in the file do not establish that the sponsor meets the governing Form I-864P, Poverty Guidelines threshold, the adjudicator shall request current year income information, not additional information from the year the sponsor signed Form I-864. In this situation, the sufficiency of the Form I-864 is determined based upon the additional evidence as it relates to the applicable threshold set forth in the Form I-864P from current year rather than the Form I-864P, Poverty Guidelines from the calendar year in which the Form I-864 was signed.

So I guess it depends on how much risk you're willing to take, you have to take an educated guess on what will make the adjudicator happy and move your case forward. If you do have a willing and able co-sponsor, I would be more apt to provide them with that as opposed to providing more evidence, as that would give concrete proof that someone with income over the poverty line is willing to sponsor you. If you do not wish to try the co-sponsor, I would submit as much evidence as I can with an letter of explanation of that evidence and make your case that way... However, in your case, the adjudicator already made a finding that this was not sufficient, you need to think what you could throw at him/her to change their mind... A more risky proposition.

And the number of people on the I-864 depends on a few factors for the OP. Do you live with your inlaws. If you do, then it would be 4. If you do not, it would be 3.

Edited June 9, 2006 by zyggy

[Canuck Carrie 1]

Thanks all for the patience, help & support! We're calmer now and can look at this clearly without panicing.

- I have asked his sister, who is also the business secretary, to copy 10 paystubs for us, and type up another employment letter with all details

- We have ordered 3 years of tax transcripts (again)

- Should we submit an updated I-864 (notarized) because of the error mentioned earlier? (husband put current income in the field for 2005 total income)

For the co-sponsor, if we go this route

- He will need to fill out a I-864, notarized

- provide his birth certificate (USC)

- order 3 years of tax transcripts

- For his taxes... he owns the business, how does he prove he is self-employed? I'm sure there is an easy way (business license maybe) but I want to be sure. He will be using his personal income taxes as proof. I will go over the forms with him this weekend and want to make sure I have it right.

Section 4C: I will have to confirm which one of these it is. His wife is a housewife that doesn't work outside the home. Depending on the answer, that will determine if he needs W2s, correct? (or should they be submitted regardless of the answer)

1. I filed a joint return for the most recent tax year which includes only my own income.

or 2. I filed a joint return for the most recent tax year which includes income for my spouse and myself.

I am submitting documentation of my individual income (Forms W-2 and 1099).

We don't live with the in-laws so it would be 3 people.

Phew!

[zyggy 9]

Thanks all for the patience, help & support! We're calmer now and can look at this clearly without panicing.

- I have asked his sister, who is also the business secretary, to copy 10 paystubs for us, and type up another employment letter with all details

- We have ordered 3 years of tax transcripts (again)

- Should we submit an updated I-864 (notarized) because of the error mentioned earlier? (husband put current income in the field for 2005 total income)

For the co-sponsor, if we go this route

- He will need to fill out a I-864, notarized

- provide his birth certificate (USC)

- order 3 years of tax transcripts

- For his taxes... he owns the business, how does he prove he is self-employed? I'm sure there is an easy way (business license maybe) but I want to be sure. He will be using his personal income taxes as proof. I will go over the forms with him this weekend and want to make sure I have it right.

Section 4C: I will have to confirm which one of these it is. His wife is a housewife that doesn't work outside the home. Depending on the answer, that will determine if he needs W2s, correct? (or should they be submitted regardless of the answer)

1. I filed a joint return for the most recent tax year which includes only my own income.

or 2. I filed a joint return for the most recent tax year which includes income for my spouse and myself.

I am submitting documentation of my individual income (Forms W-2 and 1099).

We don't live with the in-laws so it would be 3 people.

Phew!

Is his business incorporated, he pays himself a salary out of the business. If so, then the 1040 would be good enough... However, he cannot include his business income as personal income. They are two separate entities. Often, self-employed businessmen give themselves low salaries to avoid self-employment taxes. Make sure his personal income (Line 7 on the 1040) is over the poverty line limit for 3.

He would need to include his own W-2 if he doesn't want to include his wife as a sponsor and they filed jointly.

Per the memo described above, only one year is required, but the additional two years can be included as additional evidence of the stability of the income....

[Canuck Carrie 1]

Is his business incorporated, he pays himself a salary out of the business. If so, then the 1040 would be good enough... However, he cannot include his business income as personal income. They are two separate entities. Often, self-employed businessmen give themselves low salaries to avoid self-employment taxes. Make sure his personal income (Line 7 on the 1040) is over the poverty line limit for 3.

He would need to include his own W-2 if he doesn't want to include his wife as a sponsor and they filed jointly.

Per the memo described above, only one year is required, but the additional two years can be included as additional evidence of the stability of the income....

Thanks, again!

We confirmed that his personal income taxes claimed $120,000+ as income.

Going by the business stationary, it is XYZ Co. Not sure if that means anything.

Does this put us in a 'pickle'?

[zyggy 9]

Is his business incorporated, he pays himself a salary out of the business. If so, then the 1040 would be good enough... However, he cannot include his business income as personal income. They are two separate entities. Often, self-employed businessmen give themselves low salaries to avoid self-employment taxes. Make sure his personal income (Line 7 on the 1040) is over the poverty line limit for 3.

He would need to include his own W-2 if he doesn't want to include his wife as a sponsor and they filed jointly.

Per the memo described above, only one year is required, but the additional two years can be included as additional evidence of the stability of the income....

Thanks, again!

We confirmed that his personal income taxes claimed $120,000+ as income.

Going by the business stationary, it is XYZ Co. Not sure if that means anything.

Does this put us in a 'pickle'?

I don't quite understand... is your FIL's business registered as XYZ, Inc. .. If so, I assume that's not whats on the side of his van. What is he really operating under..

[Canuck Carrie 1]

Not being a business owner, I'm not really understanding.

The company stationary is xxxxx & xxxxx Electric Co. (Co. for company)

I just called my husband, the business is a proprietorship, the cell phone was staticy so I'm not sure if he said sole or not. It is not a corporation or incorporated.

[zyggy 9]

Not being a business owner, I'm not really understanding.

The company stationary is xxxxx & xxxxx Electric Co. (Co. for company)

I just called my husband, the business is a proprietorship, the cell phone was staticy so I'm not sure if he said sole or not. It is not a corporation or incorporated.

Oh ok... If it's a sole proprietorship, then the business income IS his personal income... Not sure why anyone would want to do that anymore due to liability, but to each their own...

Yes, he can do a letter on the stationary... but if he's self-employed, he really doesn't need a letter at all... he shouldn't have a W-2 either... Just a 1040 with a Schedule SE attached...

[meauxna 15]

Time to try and sort out the RFE...

The facts

- on husbands 2005 tax return he did not make 125% of the PG for 2 people due to a low paying job between November 2004 & March 2005

- husbands current income exceeds PG for 2 people. Job started in March/April 2005, income from this job has always been over the 125% but that of course won't be reflected until 2006 tax returns are done.

in section 4 of the I864 it says "The greatest weight in determining elegibility will be placed on current employment and household income..." How do we draw attention to their own guidelines and get through this?

Also, husband didn't fill out part 4C correctly. It wanted the info from his tax return, in the Sponsor's individual income field he put his current salary. <---- could this discrepency be the possible cause of the RFE? They weren't able to match his claimed income with the provided tax infoWould re-doing the I-864 satisfy them?

Options

- Use his father as co-sponsor. He owns his own business and his personal income on his tax return is $120,000+. Would his I-864 have to be for 3 people (him, his wife, me) or 4 (him, his wife, my husband, me).

If we go this route please confirm that he would have to provide his birth certificate (he's a USC) as well as 3 years of tax transcripts since he owns his own business as well as having the I-864 notarized.

I really don't want to go the co-sponsor route unless it's our only option. We also can't use the house because we don't have an up-to-date appraisal on it, the last one was based on 1999 values.

I've been pretty calm throughout this whole process, this finally got to me.

C.

hiya CC,

Sorry I've jumped back up the thread a bit; I'm looking for new ideas.

I see that you say you can't use the house because there is no up to date appraisal. A formal appraisal is not required to use real estate as an asset, so pipe up if you would like to include that asset and think it will make a difference.

My own income situation was a bit unusual at the time. To bring together all the income streams and asset values/locations, I made an attachment to my I-864 titled "Parts 4 & 5 Explained: Summary of Income and Assets to Satisfy Income Requirements of Form I-864". I can post this if you can't imagine it, but I included the hard numbers and showed how we were well over the required amount. I also included a couple of blah blah paragraphs that said things liike " We respect the purpose of the Affidavit of Support and believe we meet its intentions in spirit and letter." Explained the time off, off years of income etc.

This might be a tool for you to use to underscore that your Sponsor's *current income* is sufficient.

BTW, which office generated this RFE? If the NVC, I would think your burden of proof is lower. the NVC is not allowed to adjudicate the I-864; they review it for completeness. There is a thread in the Site News (?) forum currently from an ex NVC employee, explaining their process in general.

You can also include a written explanation of the error on the form, perhaps include a photocopy of that entire page and highlight the error. The CO can fix small mistakes like this on the form; I do not think it's fatal, but it may have confused whoever reviews the form at NVC, if that's where it came back from.

Include your A# (or case or file #) and as much identification as possible on any additional sheets of written explanation that you submit.

If you go with self-employed FIL, make sure his tax returns include Schedule C; that's the self-employed part of the return.

I'm guessing Dad is an electrician? A copy of his local business license would be a good addition. Don't forget his proof of citizenship, if you go the Joint Sponsor route.

HTH

m

Not being a business owner, I'm not really understanding.

The company stationary is xxxxx & xxxxx Electric Co. (Co. for company)

I just called my husband, the business is a proprietorship, the cell phone was staticy so I'm not sure if he said sole or not. It is not a corporation or incorporated.

When someone is a sole proprietor (not incorporated), they *are* the business, so you've got it right. FIL prolly does business under the name XYZ & son Electric; that's called a 'DBA" (Doing Business As), so it sounds like you've got it figured out.

I understand your concerns about not wanting to use a Joint Sponsor. The deal we made with ours was that the DAH would naturalize asap, relieving them of any potential obligation (other than being my parents! They're still on the hook for that & it will prolly cost them more!). He's set for his test/oath next month, and it goes quickly.

[Canuck Carrie 1]

Thank you for all the great details!

hiya CC,

Sorry I've jumped back up the thread a bit; I'm looking for new ideas.

I see that you say you can't use the house because there is no up to date appraisal. A formal appraisal is not required to use real estate as an asset, so pipe up if you would like to include that asset and think it will make a difference.

We've only had the house since the beginning of April, the bank owns more than we do of course. How would we use this? Husband bought the house from his father, through the bank, both their names are on the paperwork. I know our payments are made out to the bank.

My own income situation was a bit unusual at the time. To bring together all the income streams and asset values/locations, I made an attachment to my I-864 titled "Parts 4 & 5 Explained: Summary of Income and Assets to Satisfy Income Requirements of Form I-864". I can post this if you can't imagine it, but I included the hard numbers and showed how we were well over the required amount. I also included a couple of blah blah paragraphs that said things liike " We respect the purpose of the Affidavit of Support and believe we meet its intentions in spirit and letter." Explained the time off, off years of income etc.

This might be a tool for you to use to underscore that your Sponsor's *current income* is sufficient.

This sounds like a good idea! We don't have much other than a house, a paid for truck and the fact that he's being groomed to take over the well-established business. I do like this part "We respect the purpose of the Affidavit of Support and believe we meet its intentions in spirit and letter." and will probably include something along those lines.

BTW, which office generated this RFE? If the NVC, I would think your burden of proof is lower. the NVC is not allowed to adjudicate the I-864; they review it for completeness. There is a thread in the Site News (?) forum currently from an ex NVC employee, explaining their process in general.

The envelope is from Lee's Summit

You can also include a written explanation of the error on the form, perhaps include a photocopy of that entire page and highlight the error. The CO can fix small mistakes like this on the form; I do not think it's fatal, but it may have confused whoever reviews the form at NVC, if that's where it came back from.

I also think that might be part of the problem. We'll do as you've suggested also including tax transcripts for 3 years and pay stubs, highlighting the fact that current income is the strong point (according to them)

Include your A# (or case or file #) and as much identification as possible on any additional sheets of written explanation that you submit.

I write that number on every single page. I envision them playing a warped version of 52 pick-up with our documents

If you go with self-employed FIL, make sure his tax returns include Schedule C; that's the self-employed part of the return.

I'm guessing Dad is an electrician? A copy of his local business license would be a good addition. Don't forget his proof of citizenship, if you go the Joint Sponsor route.

Papa is so cute, he's already looking up Poverty Guidelines and forms on his own. Thanks for the hint about the business license!

HTH

m

Very much so!

When someone is a sole proprietor (not incorporated), they *are* the business, so you've got it right. FIL prolly does business under the name XYZ & son Electric; that's called a 'DBA" (Doing Business As), so it sounds like you've got it figured out.

I understand your concerns about not wanting to use a Joint Sponsor. The deal we made with ours was that the DAH would naturalize asap, relieving them of any potential obligation (other than being my parents! They're still on the hook for that & it will prolly cost them more!). He's set for his test/oath next month, and it goes quickly.

I never even thought of that! It makes me feel a little better

[Reba 2]

you've got a lot of good advice here Carrie!

It'll all work out and you'll have a big sigh of relief at your AOS interview when they say "passed"

[meauxna 15]

Sorry about all that NVC blahblah, you're AOSing. I still think that's MSC that sent your RFE, and their function is very similar to the NVC's; to make sure your packet is complete. They do not adjudicate---your DO will do that.

So, you just need to spell it out as if for a five year old.

About the house, you would use equity. That's the amount the property is worth minus how much is owed on it. Factor in that there is joint ownership with Dad and you're right--for your situation, you might not have enough there. Check out your numbers anyway; it's a good exercise.

Sounds like you're all on top of it!

[Canuck Carrie 1]

Finally, the IRS transcripts came in

I've re-done the cover letter making it all very clear (I hope), explaining everything below, in detail, as well as explaining the income shortfall on the 2005 taxes.

We're including a corrected page 3 from the I-864

Weekly pay stubs since March 2006

New letter of employment, hubby got a raise last week, woohoo!

3 years of tax transcripts

RFE is getting sent back tomorrow, fingers crossed!

[popocat 0]

Good luck!!