Links between Islam and Terrorism

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

You knew when you posted this entire topic it would turn into a disaster. Come on you've been around VJ long enough to know......

p.s How did Chaishai bring up Jews? She was commenting that not all Muslims are terrorists and you went and told her she shouldn't be able to have an opinion because she's a Jew married to a Jew...

Whats surprising is that is was ok... then people wanted it to devolve. Like they are bored or something.. Its ridiculous. I wont let it turn into a disaster.. thats a choice and I am not making it... She is entitled to an opinion but the reality is that the topic really isnt applicable to her ( defending Islam to non family members and friends) She is entitled to an opinion of course but this is not really applicable to her situation in that she has no instance of having to defend or explain a religion she does not practice and shes not married to a muslim so this whole posting never applied to her. I think she knows that point and frankly so do you and everyone else. Posts can only devolve if people want them too.

I will say that after seeing the chabad lubovich massacre and that little jewish boy left behind standing in a pool of his parents blood and all the jews killed there for no other reason other than being jewish, I think that would easily be a conversation at a family gathering of hers but I dont think the subject would be the gentle nature and tolerance of radical islam

Maybe I am not married to a muslim but that doesnt mean that I dont encounter bigotry... I dont even know why I am arguing its like a brick wall.

Thats why I find these discussions/debates/threads so fascinating - I learn so much from everyone.

Thanks for sharing this additional information, I certainly didn't know this & I'm sure many others didnt as well.

I never knew any Jewish person ever lived in an Arab country until I was in Tunisia this past spring & yes there are many Jewish People who live in the country and Djerba. Some friends, family & coworkers dont believe it when I tell them this!

My husband took great pride in showing me not only the beautiful Mosques in his country but also the Catholic Cathedral & the Jewish Synagogues (which were heavily guarded). I was amazed by all of it, there is such beauty in religions of all kinds.

Tunisia was the only Arab country to come under direct Nazi occupation during World War II; Morocco and Algeria were governed by Vichy France. When the Nazis arrived in Tunisia in November, 1942, the nation was home to some 100,000 Jews. According to Yad Vashem, the Nazis imposed anti-Semitic policies including forcing Jews to wear Star of David badges, fines, and confiscation of property. More than 5,000 Jews were sent to forced labor camps, where 46 are known to have died, see Jews outside Europe under Nazi occupation; an additional 160 Tunisian Jews in France were sent to European death camps. Tunisia, however, was home to Khaled Abdelwahhab, the first Arab nominated for the Israeli Righteous Among the Nations award.

After independence in the 1950s, Tunisia's Jewish Community Council was abolished by the government and many Jewish areas and buildings were destroyed for "urban renewal."

By 1967, the country's Jewish population was fleeing, over 40,000 had left for Israel, leaving 20,000. During the Six-Day War, Jews were attacked in riots, and, despite government apologies, 7,000 Jews immigrated to France.

Although the synagogues are wonderful "historic places to visit" what happened to the jews in Tunisia was horrific. Dont let empty buildings fool you. There were some amazing Tunisians that saved alot of Jews but dont let empty buildings fool you . Very few jews remain there and in 2002 terrorists bombed Djerba s synagogue. I have been in Tunisia 3 times and was married there and because I know what used to be there I know what is missing. Many TUnisians cooperated with the Nazis and took the property left behind of the Jews

Wow that is so not how my MIL described her childhood!

The population of Jews in Tunisia has diminished from hundreds of thousands to now less several thousand. I think that if you question your MIL as to why so many jews left for Israel you will find that they left because of various reason. Many fleeing Nazi occupation, then pogroms in the 1950s and then after the 7 days war, Jews were attacked in riots. Algeria never got the chance that Tunisians got. They were immediately sent out of the country and lost all property. There are no synagogues left in Algeria save one or 2 and there were thousands and thousands in every major city. Its ironic that I am not Jewish and I know this and you are and tell me your mother in law never mentioned it. I find that very sad because you should be the staunchest defender of Judaism and the plight of the diaspora and not say because you MIL didnt talk about it , it didnt happen. I find that absolutely the saddest thing of all. That a goy who went to school in your country and studied there and studied at Yad Vachem would be a stauncher defender of the victims of the shoah than you. I find that shocking and sad. I know what I know because I learned first hand from holocaust victims and sephardic jews.

I was being sarcastic. Yes I know the history. Not EVERY jew in tunisia suffered. My MIL had a beautiful life in Tunis, cried when she left, was much worse off financially in her early days in Israel and looks back on her days in Tunisia with great great fondness. Dont criticize me on not defending Judaism, who are you? JUST because I talk specifically about my MIL does NOT mean that I am doubting history.

what the H#LL does this discussion have to do with my feelings ont he holocaust? You dont know me, you dont know my family history, you dont know ANYTHING about my situation at all, so do not address me or make judgements on me.

It must be nice to make someones blood boil that you dont even know, is this how you deal with your internal pain? Try spreading around some good feelings instead, maybe good things will come back to you.

Again , I did not start this thread to be anything about Judaism and I stated very clearly that this was about dealing with non muslim relatives and defending islam to them . I clearly stated to you that because of your background, it probably was not relative to you. I absolutely am sure that you and or your husband has experienced bigotry. I did not pander to you or to anyone else about that fact nor does anything to do with my "internal pain" have ANYTHING to do with my reaction to you saying your MIL didnt see any of these things growing up. That statement is qualifying that this stuff that i have talked about never happened. The jews of North Africa have experienced very varied things to varying levels, The Moroccans and Tunisians having it the easiest but they still suffered in concentration camps and women were raped and forced into brothels by both the nazis and some members of the Tunisian populace. Libya was completely annihilated with graveyards paved over and much evidence of Algeria s jewish history wiped away. This has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the original topic but it does support the arguement that many muslims have NOT been tolerant of jewishness in their treatment of sephardic jews. I did not see sarcasm in your remark as much as negating it and frankly pandering to the victimisers gets no one anywhere. Much like Israel gets to tow the line for whats happened to palestinians, the jews have unfortunately alternatingly thrived and then suffered under Islamic rule. One century everything is ok and the next one demonised and suffering from pogroms and abuse both physical and economic sanctions

Again this has NOTHING to do with the original topic and as much as its an interesting topic, its not one I brought up. It devolved into it. But bigotry against jews was not what I wanted to discuss. I wanted to discuss Islam and how its defended at family gatherings and among friends. I would find no shortage of debate on Jews and Muslims although I see now even as a muslim, I am not real keen on pandering and not discussing truth to somehow appease others. What happened to arab jewry in the light of the establishment of Israel is simply tragic. Many had no exposure to problems before and then politics became the impetus to be thrown from their homes...

I dont care what your original post was and BTW YOU brought up the fact that I was jewish, not me. I didnt bring up jews at all until you pointed out this fact.

My sarcasm regarding my MILs experience was intended to point out the fact that you are generalizing, once again, i know its a big shock for people.

I think that you owe me an apology for your accusation that I do not take the holocaust seriously.

I apologise for upsetting you. I do not think you can generalise about a country that no longer has a jewish populace. There is a reason very few jews live there and many left. Its because they were treated unfairly. Your response to me was to say that your MIL never saw any of these things. I didnt find that sarcastic. The reality is that the state of Israel was established by Jews because they needed a safe place to live. Unfortunately the Palestinians felt they had the right to be there as well

Chai, I think you understand very clearly that being Jewish you should advocate for your people first and foremost even if it rattles cages and ruffles feathers. I know that Israel has done alot of horrific things to the palestinian people but even as a muslim, I feel obligated to defend them because so few remain in places for example like Algeria. When people are killed and made to disappear and their organizations dismantled, it remains a responsibility to make sure it never happens again.

Again none of this has ANYTHING to do with the original topic. I am happy you were just being sarastic and I am sorry I offended you. I was absolutely not generalising about what happened in North Africa.It happened . It was tragic and I am happy there are jews in Israel working diligently to note what happened In Tunisia to people and their deportation to camps in Europe because without them , we would have no record. Thank God for Yad Vachem.

[chaishai 1]

Thats why I find these discussions/debates/threads so fascinating - I learn so much from everyone.

Thanks for sharing this additional information, I certainly didn't know this & I'm sure many others didnt as well.

I never knew any Jewish person ever lived in an Arab country until I was in Tunisia this past spring & yes there are many Jewish People who live in the country and Djerba. Some friends, family & coworkers dont believe it when I tell them this!

My husband took great pride in showing me not only the beautiful Mosques in his country but also the Catholic Cathedral & the Jewish Synagogues (which were heavily guarded). I was amazed by all of it, there is such beauty in religions of all kinds.

Tunisia was the only Arab country to come under direct Nazi occupation during World War II; Morocco and Algeria were governed by Vichy France. When the Nazis arrived in Tunisia in November, 1942, the nation was home to some 100,000 Jews. According to Yad Vashem, the Nazis imposed anti-Semitic policies including forcing Jews to wear Star of David badges, fines, and confiscation of property. More than 5,000 Jews were sent to forced labor camps, where 46 are known to have died, see Jews outside Europe under Nazi occupation; an additional 160 Tunisian Jews in France were sent to European death camps. Tunisia, however, was home to Khaled Abdelwahhab, the first Arab nominated for the Israeli Righteous Among the Nations award.

After independence in the 1950s, Tunisia's Jewish Community Council was abolished by the government and many Jewish areas and buildings were destroyed for "urban renewal."

By 1967, the country's Jewish population was fleeing, over 40,000 had left for Israel, leaving 20,000. During the Six-Day War, Jews were attacked in riots, and, despite government apologies, 7,000 Jews immigrated to France.

Although the synagogues are wonderful "historic places to visit" what happened to the jews in Tunisia was horrific. Dont let empty buildings fool you. There were some amazing Tunisians that saved alot of Jews but dont let empty buildings fool you . Very few jews remain there and in 2002 terrorists bombed Djerba s synagogue. I have been in Tunisia 3 times and was married there and because I know what used to be there I know what is missing. Many TUnisians cooperated with the Nazis and took the property left behind of the Jews

Wow that is so not how my MIL described her childhood!

The population of Jews in Tunisia has diminished from hundreds of thousands to now less several thousand. I think that if you question your MIL as to why so many jews left for Israel you will find that they left because of various reason. Many fleeing Nazi occupation, then pogroms in the 1950s and then after the 7 days war, Jews were attacked in riots. Algeria never got the chance that Tunisians got. They were immediately sent out of the country and lost all property. There are no synagogues left in Algeria save one or 2 and there were thousands and thousands in every major city. Its ironic that I am not Jewish and I know this and you are and tell me your mother in law never mentioned it. I find that very sad because you should be the staunchest defender of Judaism and the plight of the diaspora and not say because you MIL didnt talk about it , it didnt happen. I find that absolutely the saddest thing of all. That a goy who went to school in your country and studied there and studied at Yad Vachem would be a stauncher defender of the victims of the shoah than you. I find that shocking and sad. I know what I know because I learned first hand from holocaust victims and sephardic jews.

I was being sarcastic. Yes I know the history. Not EVERY jew in tunisia suffered. My MIL had a beautiful life in Tunis, cried when she left, was much worse off financially in her early days in Israel and looks back on her days in Tunisia with great great fondness. Dont criticize me on not defending Judaism, who are you? JUST because I talk specifically about my MIL does NOT mean that I am doubting history.

what the H#LL does this discussion have to do with my feelings ont he holocaust? You dont know me, you dont know my family history, you dont know ANYTHING about my situation at all, so do not address me or make judgements on me.

It must be nice to make someones blood boil that you dont even know, is this how you deal with your internal pain? Try spreading around some good feelings instead, maybe good things will come back to you.

Again , I did not start this thread to be anything about Judaism and I stated very clearly that this was about dealing with non muslim relatives and defending islam to them . I clearly stated to you that because of your background, it probably was not relative to you. I absolutely am sure that you and or your husband has experienced bigotry. I did not pander to you or to anyone else about that fact nor does anything to do with my "internal pain" have ANYTHING to do with my reaction to you saying your MIL didnt see any of these things growing up. That statement is qualifying that this stuff that i have talked about never happened. The jews of North Africa have experienced very varied things to varying levels, The Moroccans and Tunisians having it the easiest but they still suffered in concentration camps and women were raped and forced into brothels by both the nazis and some members of the Tunisian populace. Libya was completely annihilated with graveyards paved over and much evidence of Algeria s jewish history wiped away. This has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the original topic but it does support the arguement that many muslims have NOT been tolerant of jewishness in their treatment of sephardic jews. I did not see sarcasm in your remark as much as negating it and frankly pandering to the victimisers gets no one anywhere. Much like Israel gets to tow the line for whats happened to palestinians, the jews have unfortunately alternatingly thrived and then suffered under Islamic rule. One century everything is ok and the next one demonised and suffering from pogroms and abuse both physical and economic sanctions

Again this has NOTHING to do with the original topic and as much as its an interesting topic, its not one I brought up. It devolved into it. But bigotry against jews was not what I wanted to discuss. I wanted to discuss Islam and how its defended at family gatherings and among friends. I would find no shortage of debate on Jews and Muslims although I see now even as a muslim, I am not real keen on pandering and not discussing truth to somehow appease others. What happened to arab jewry in the light of the establishment of Israel is simply tragic. Many had no exposure to problems before and then politics became the impetus to be thrown from their homes...

I dont care what your original post was and BTW YOU brought up the fact that I was jewish, not me. I didnt bring up jews at all until you pointed out this fact.

My sarcasm regarding my MILs experience was intended to point out the fact that you are generalizing, once again, i know its a big shock for people.

I think that you owe me an apology for your accusation that I do not take the holocaust seriously.

I apologise for upsetting you. I do not think you can generalise about a country that no longer has a jewish populace. There is a reason very few jews live there and many left. Its because they were treated unfairly. Your response to me was to say that your MIL never saw any of these things. I didnt find that sarcastic. The reality is that the state of Israel was established by Jews because they needed a safe place to live. Unfortunately the Palestinians felt they had the right to be there as well

Chai, I think you understand very clearly that being Jewish you should advocate for your people first and foremost even if it rattles cages and ruffles feathers. I know that Israel has done alot of horrific things to the palestinian people but even as a muslim, I feel obligated to defend them because so few remain in places for example like Algeria. When people are killed and made to disappear and their organizations dismantled, it remains a responsibility to make sure it never happens again.

Again none of this has ANYTHING to do with the original topic. I am happy you were just being sarastic and I am sorry I offended you. I was absolutely not generalising about what happened in North Africa.It happened . It was tragic and I am happy there are jews in Israel working diligently to note what happened In Tunisia to people and their deportation to camps in Europe because without them , we would have no record. Thank God for Yad Vachem.

OK I think I need to give up on this conversation that is clearly going nowhere but I cant seem to let you get away with the fact that you NEED TO STOP SAYING THAT I AM NOT AN ADVOCATE FOR JEWS and things of this nature because i mentioned that MY MIL DID NOT EXPERIENCE HATRED IN TUNISIA. I am sorry, but she DIDNT. Is she a liar? Do I need to ask her what cigarettes they smoke in Tunisia to get her to prove to me that she really lived there and didnt experience hatred? STOPPPPPP!!!!!!!!

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Thats why I find these discussions/debates/threads so fascinating - I learn so much from everyone.

Thanks for sharing this additional information, I certainly didn't know this & I'm sure many others didnt as well.

I never knew any Jewish person ever lived in an Arab country until I was in Tunisia this past spring & yes there are many Jewish People who live in the country and Djerba. Some friends, family & coworkers dont believe it when I tell them this!

My husband took great pride in showing me not only the beautiful Mosques in his country but also the Catholic Cathedral & the Jewish Synagogues (which were heavily guarded). I was amazed by all of it, there is such beauty in religions of all kinds.

Tunisia was the only Arab country to come under direct Nazi occupation during World War II; Morocco and Algeria were governed by Vichy France. When the Nazis arrived in Tunisia in November, 1942, the nation was home to some 100,000 Jews. According to Yad Vashem, the Nazis imposed anti-Semitic policies including forcing Jews to wear Star of David badges, fines, and confiscation of property. More than 5,000 Jews were sent to forced labor camps, where 46 are known to have died, see Jews outside Europe under Nazi occupation; an additional 160 Tunisian Jews in France were sent to European death camps. Tunisia, however, was home to Khaled Abdelwahhab, the first Arab nominated for the Israeli Righteous Among the Nations award.

After independence in the 1950s, Tunisia's Jewish Community Council was abolished by the government and many Jewish areas and buildings were destroyed for "urban renewal."

By 1967, the country's Jewish population was fleeing, over 40,000 had left for Israel, leaving 20,000. During the Six-Day War, Jews were attacked in riots, and, despite government apologies, 7,000 Jews immigrated to France.

Although the synagogues are wonderful "historic places to visit" what happened to the jews in Tunisia was horrific. Dont let empty buildings fool you. There were some amazing Tunisians that saved alot of Jews but dont let empty buildings fool you . Very few jews remain there and in 2002 terrorists bombed Djerba s synagogue. I have been in Tunisia 3 times and was married there and because I know what used to be there I know what is missing. Many TUnisians cooperated with the Nazis and took the property left behind of the Jews

Wow that is so not how my MIL described her childhood!

The population of Jews in Tunisia has diminished from hundreds of thousands to now less several thousand. I think that if you question your MIL as to why so many jews left for Israel you will find that they left because of various reason. Many fleeing Nazi occupation, then pogroms in the 1950s and then after the 7 days war, Jews were attacked in riots. Algeria never got the chance that Tunisians got. They were immediately sent out of the country and lost all property. There are no synagogues left in Algeria save one or 2 and there were thousands and thousands in every major city. Its ironic that I am not Jewish and I know this and you are and tell me your mother in law never mentioned it. I find that very sad because you should be the staunchest defender of Judaism and the plight of the diaspora and not say because you MIL didnt talk about it , it didnt happen. I find that absolutely the saddest thing of all. That a goy who went to school in your country and studied there and studied at Yad Vachem would be a stauncher defender of the victims of the shoah than you. I find that shocking and sad. I know what I know because I learned first hand from holocaust victims and sephardic jews.

I was being sarcastic. Yes I know the history. Not EVERY jew in tunisia suffered. My MIL had a beautiful life in Tunis, cried when she left, was much worse off financially in her early days in Israel and looks back on her days in Tunisia with great great fondness. Dont criticize me on not defending Judaism, who are you? JUST because I talk specifically about my MIL does NOT mean that I am doubting history.

what the H#LL does this discussion have to do with my feelings ont he holocaust? You dont know me, you dont know my family history, you dont know ANYTHING about my situation at all, so do not address me or make judgements on me.

It must be nice to make someones blood boil that you dont even know, is this how you deal with your internal pain? Try spreading around some good feelings instead, maybe good things will come back to you.

Again , I did not start this thread to be anything about Judaism and I stated very clearly that this was about dealing with non muslim relatives and defending islam to them . I clearly stated to you that because of your background, it probably was not relative to you. I absolutely am sure that you and or your husband has experienced bigotry. I did not pander to you or to anyone else about that fact nor does anything to do with my "internal pain" have ANYTHING to do with my reaction to you saying your MIL didnt see any of these things growing up. That statement is qualifying that this stuff that i have talked about never happened. The jews of North Africa have experienced very varied things to varying levels, The Moroccans and Tunisians having it the easiest but they still suffered in concentration camps and women were raped and forced into brothels by both the nazis and some members of the Tunisian populace. Libya was completely annihilated with graveyards paved over and much evidence of Algeria s jewish history wiped away. This has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the original topic but it does support the arguement that many muslims have NOT been tolerant of jewishness in their treatment of sephardic jews. I did not see sarcasm in your remark as much as negating it and frankly pandering to the victimisers gets no one anywhere. Much like Israel gets to tow the line for whats happened to palestinians, the jews have unfortunately alternatingly thrived and then suffered under Islamic rule. One century everything is ok and the next one demonised and suffering from pogroms and abuse both physical and economic sanctions

Again this has NOTHING to do with the original topic and as much as its an interesting topic, its not one I brought up. It devolved into it. But bigotry against jews was not what I wanted to discuss. I wanted to discuss Islam and how its defended at family gatherings and among friends. I would find no shortage of debate on Jews and Muslims although I see now even as a muslim, I am not real keen on pandering and not discussing truth to somehow appease others. What happened to arab jewry in the light of the establishment of Israel is simply tragic. Many had no exposure to problems before and then politics became the impetus to be thrown from their homes...

I dont care what your original post was and BTW YOU brought up the fact that I was jewish, not me. I didnt bring up jews at all until you pointed out this fact.

My sarcasm regarding my MILs experience was intended to point out the fact that you are generalizing, once again, i know its a big shock for people.

I think that you owe me an apology for your accusation that I do not take the holocaust seriously.

I apologise for upsetting you. I do not think you can generalise about a country that no longer has a jewish populace. There is a reason very few jews live there and many left. Its because they were treated unfairly. Your response to me was to say that your MIL never saw any of these things. I didnt find that sarcastic. The reality is that the state of Israel was established by Jews because they needed a safe place to live. Unfortunately the Palestinians felt they had the right to be there as well

Chai, I think you understand very clearly that being Jewish you should advocate for your people first and foremost even if it rattles cages and ruffles feathers. I know that Israel has done alot of horrific things to the palestinian people but even as a muslim, I feel obligated to defend them because so few remain in places for example like Algeria. When people are killed and made to disappear and their organizations dismantled, it remains a responsibility to make sure it never happens again.

Again none of this has ANYTHING to do with the original topic. I am happy you were just being sarastic and I am sorry I offended you. I was absolutely not generalising about what happened in North Africa.It happened . It was tragic and I am happy there are jews in Israel working diligently to note what happened In Tunisia to people and their deportation to camps in Europe because without them , we would have no record. Thank God for Yad Vachem.

OK I think I need to give up on this conversation that is clearly going nowhere but I cant seem to let you get away with the fact that you NEED TO STOP SAYING THAT I AM NOT AN ADVOCATE FOR JEWS and things of this nature because i mentioned that MY MIL DID NOT EXPERIENCE HATRED IN TUNISIA. I am sorry, but she DIDNT. Is she a liar? Do I need to ask her what cigarettes they smoke in Tunisia to get her to prove to me that she really lived there and didnt experience hatred? STOPPPPPP!!!!!!!!

Here is a great video about Mizrahi ( middle eastern jews) Its about DHIMMITUDE.

Why did she and her family leave Tunisia? Why did they move to Israel if life in Tunisia was so good and why has she not returned to live there? The life that she left there no longer exists. The buildings are there but very few jews remain. Jews in Tunisia are lucky . They can at least return. Algerian and Libyan jews cannot.

I know she really lived there and probably has alot happier memories from there than her new country but the Tunisia she remembers doesnt exist any more and I am sure she will tell you from her visits back on vacation. The 2002 bombings of the synagogues in Djerba I think probably affected her a great deal.

Again. I dont want this topic to devolve into a popcorn thread and really want to get back to topic. I am on my 5th try

[Der Bücherwurm 1]

wahrania are you serious? I thought you were muslim........ According to all that I have read and been told Islam was always first starting with Adam. Islam is sooo not based on the Judaic faith.

Are you serious!? Don't tell me you're yet another stepford girl that willingly submitted to a total personality/identity/religion transplant that just takes her 'owner's' word as truth. I think you have some homework to do. Judaism was based upon a previous older religion. Christianity was based upon Judaism as they outright plagiarized the Jewish old testament and Islam ripped off, changed around and warped the Torah and Bible and some hadiths were thrown around to justify the 'propeht's' greed and sexual perversions so all a 'man' that wants to marry an underage child needs to do is point to the fact that the prophet did it so it's ok. At the end of the day, misguided morons use these mythologies as tools for controlling the masses and as a weapon against those that refuse to submit. If there were a god, I can guarantee you that She would never set foot in a mosque, church or synagogue for all the evil that has come out of those places.

Edited December 2, 2008 by Hoomsfuturewife

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

wahrania are you serious? I thought you were muslim........ According to all that I have read and been told Islam was always first starting with Adam. Islam is sooo not based on the Judaic faith.

Are you serious!? Don't tell me you're yet another stepford girl that willingly submitted to a total personality/identity/religion transplant that just takes her 'owner's' word as truth. I think you have some homework to do. Judaism was based upon a previous older religion. Christianity was based upon Judaism as they outright plagiarized the Jewish old testament and Islam ripped off, changed around and warped the Torah and Bible and some hadiths were thrown around to justify the 'propeht's' greed and sexual perversions so all a 'man' that wants to marry an underage child needs to do is point to the fact that the prophet did it so it's ok. At the end of the day, misguided morons use these mythologies as tools for controlling the masses and as a weapon against those that refuse to submit. If there were a god, I can guarantee you that She would never set foot in a mosque, church or synagogue for all the evil that has come out of those places.

Now we have a POPCORN THREAD

[sussemadel 16]

If there were a god, I can guarantee you that She would never set foot in a mosque, church or synagogue for all the evil that has come out of those places.

[sandinista! 1,816]

wahrania are you serious? I thought you were muslim........ According to all that I have read and been told Islam was always first starting with Adam. Islam is sooo not based on the Judaic faith.

Are you serious!? Don't tell me you're yet another stepford girl that willingly submitted to a total personality/identity/religion transplant that just takes her 'owner's' word as truth. I think you have some homework to do. Judaism was based upon a previous older religion. Christianity was based upon Judaism as they outright plagiarized the Jewish old testament and Islam ripped off, changed around and warped the Torah and Bible and some hadiths were thrown around to justify the 'propeht's' greed and sexual perversions so all a 'man' that wants to marry an underage child needs to do is point to the fact that the prophet did it so it's ok. At the end of the day, misguided morons use these mythologies as tools for controlling the masses and as a weapon against those that refuse to submit. If there were a god, I can guarantee you that She would never set foot in a mosque, church or synagogue for all the evil that has come out of those places.

lol. and your post sounds like a regurgitation of the "angsty teenager's guide to atheism". which would be fine, if you were still in high school. i hate the personality crises ####### as much as you do. but an adult mutual respect for others' beliefs that aren't founded out of personality crises would go a long way.

[sereia 0]

Kat. You need to just................stop.

You are insulting left and right all over VJ! Yes, we all understand you've been through a lot (so have others around here who don't rant and rave constantly like you do)

You need to give it a rest!

[Y's_habibitk 2]

wahrania are you serious? I thought you were muslim........ According to all that I have read and been told Islam was always first starting with Adam. Islam is sooo not based on the Judaic faith.

Are you serious!? Don't tell me you're yet another stepford girl that willingly submitted to a total personality/identity/religion transplant that just takes her 'owner's' word as truth. I think you have some homework to do. Judaism was based upon a previous older religion. Christianity was based upon Judaism as they outright plagiarized the Jewish old testament and Islam ripped off, changed around and warped the Torah and Bible and some hadiths were thrown around to justify the 'propeht's' greed and sexual perversions so all a 'man' that wants to marry an underage child needs to do is point to the fact that the prophet did it so it's ok. At the end of the day, misguided morons use these mythologies as tools for controlling the masses and as a weapon against those that refuse to submit. If there were a god, I can guarantee you that She would never set foot in a mosque, church or synagogue for all the evil that has come out of those places.

I guess this is a good example of the conversations that might arise at the dinner table with family, that the OP was originally looking for. Wah, this should bring the topic back LOL

[chaishai 1]

"Why did they move to Israel if life in Tunisia was so good and why has she not returned to live there?"

Not that its any of your business but since you feel you are so educated its called "ALIYAH". Go ahead and google/wikipedia that and proclaim yourself an expert and all knowing on that topic as well.

[Staashi 371]

"Why did they move to Israel if life in Tunisia was so good and why has she not returned to live there?"

Not that its any of your business but since you feel you are so educated its called "ALIYAH". Go ahead and google/wikipedia that and proclaim yourself an expert and all knowing on that topic as well.

Chai - Thank you for the update. I had heard of the Argentine Aliyah and knew how important it was to some people during the economic crisis in 1999 - 2002. I also have a lot of friends who have dual US/Israeli citizenship and their families participated in the US Aliyah.

[Tunisia216 2]

"Why did they move to Israel if life in Tunisia was so good and why has she not returned to live there?"

Not that its any of your business but since you feel you are so educated its called "ALIYAH". Go ahead and google/wikipedia that and proclaim yourself an expert and all knowing on that topic as well.

I just had to chime in that I totally believe what chaishai is saying about her mother in law's life in Tunisia because I've seen it with my own eyes. My own husband had several friends that he studied with at University that were "Jerba-Jewish" and studying at a University in his town with NO problems. Have you ever visited the island of Jerba? There ARE Jewish people living there and they ARE praying there PEACEFULLY. They are treated well and I even know of several examples where Jewish people and Muslim people co own businesses. I am not denying that there were atrocities in Tunisia and in most other parts of the world, but the picture that you are trying to paint right now isn't an accurate picture at all. People talk often about the El Ghriba Synagogue but there are others. Also like prince+angel said you can find churches and synagogues all over Tunisia not just on Jerba. Walk down Avenue Habib Bourgabia (main street Tunis) and tell me what you see going on there on Sunday mornings Anyway, the El Ghriba synagogue is a very special place and if it's empty at times (though people DO pray there) that doesn't mean it's because the Tunisian government has done something to make it so. It's home to the oldest / first seffer torah (spelling? sorry! ) and in my mind I've always thought of it as like the "mecca of Judaism" that might not come out right but it's a very holy place for those of the Jewish faith and a very popular place to visit after passover. If it was so horrible, why would so many of the Jewish faith make that trip every year?

[UmmSqueakster 54]

As far as following advice, different medhabs have different opinions, some being much more tolerant of other religions as some less so. The sufis are very open to all the books of all the people of the book. Sunnis much less so... Its all what medhab you follow as to how you perceive religion wise , the people around you

I'm sorry, but this is a huge pet peeve of mine. Sufis are not a seperate branch of Islam. Sufis practice the science of purification of the heart, tasawwuf. They also adhere to a madhab (school) of fiqh (jurisprudence) in either the sunni or shia branches.

I don't know what you mean by "sufis are very open to all the books of all the people of the book" but the sufis I know aren't universalists and are firmly within ahl al sunnah wa jamaah, orthodox sunni islam. For them, it's the Qur'an and the sunnah and that's it.

Pet peeve or not,, Suffis do not practice their religion like many others. You never see a group of sufis lobbing hand grenades into hotel rooms or shooting a babys parents in front of them to leave them wandering in a pool of blood. Their goal is peace, enlightenment and dialog between them and other religions. I whole heareted disagree with you on this one. In purifying your heart, you dont demonise and terrorise others.... in that they are very different

What's the tariqa that teaches this? Who is the murshid? The goal of tasawwuf is to reach Allah (swt) through submission to Him, adherence to the required and recommended, leaving things that are merely permissible, shunning what is disliked and haram, and living in full accordance with the sharia. If you achieve peace and enlightenment (never heard an orthodox sufi use the term enlightenment), then good for you, but those aren't the goals.

It's a myth that sufis are somehow hippy dippy new agey pacifists. If there is a just cause for a physical jihad, then sufis take up the sword and fight, just as non sufis take up the sword and fight. Sheikh Uthman dan Fodio, perhaps the greatest sufi in the history of west africa, lead jihad. Many of the chechan jihadi leaders in the 19th and 20th centuries were sufis.

Jihad is a part of our faith. What is not a part of our faith is targeting innocent women, children and non combatents. The mujahideen who adheres to the sunnah of the Prophet (saws) would never commit attrocities of terrorism.

[doodlebugg 10]

wahrania are you serious? I thought you were muslim........ According to all that I have read and been told Islam was always first starting with Adam. Islam is sooo not based on the Judaic faith.

Are you serious!? Don't tell me you're yet another stepford girl that willingly submitted to a total personality/identity/religion transplant that just takes her 'owner's' word as truth. I think you have some homework to do. Judaism was based upon a previous older religion. Christianity was based upon Judaism as they outright plagiarized the Jewish old testament and Islam ripped off, changed around and warped the Torah and Bible and some hadiths were thrown around to justify the 'propeht's' greed and sexual perversions so all a 'man' that wants to marry an underage child needs to do is point to the fact that the prophet did it so it's ok. At the end of the day, misguided morons use these mythologies as tools for controlling the masses and as a weapon against those that refuse to submit. If there were a god, I can guarantee you that She would never set foot in a mosque, church or synagogue for all the evil that has come out of those places.

I take my OWNER's word as truth???? roflmfaooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't WAIT to tell my husband that he's my 'owner'!!!!!

You have some serious issues woman.

[Zee Bee 61]

....just

ETA: where is Charles when you need him ?

Edited December 2, 2008 by Zee Bee