Links between Islam and Terrorism

[doodlebugg 10]

Forgive me humpkin bumpkin. You have changed your names a couple of times so its hard to keep trackthat you are Bridget.

It's pumpkin with a p, though hubby pronounces it bumpkin with a b. And I so wish I could go back to doodlebug!!!

Edited December 1, 2008 by humpkinpumpkin

[Tunisia216 2]

Forgive me humpkin bumpkin. You have changed your names a couple of times so its hard to keep trackthat you are Bridget.

It's pumpkin with a p, though hubby pronounces it bumpkin with a b. And I so wish I could go back to doodlebug!!!

I think others have just PM'd Ewok Bridget Hopefully you could try that and have some luck! Though I like both

[aisha kandisha 0]

Forgive me humpkin bumpkin. You have changed your names a couple of times so its hard to keep trackthat you are Bridget.

To respect jewish thoughts and jewish history, you do not have to be Jewish. The jews have archaology on their side as well as artifacts and other things to support their existance and their language. No political or personal mindset will ever diminish that evidence. This topic is not about jews and muslims. Its about talking about and defending religion to outside people. As far as following advice, different medhabs have different opinions, some being much more tolerant of other religions as some less so. The sufis are very open to all the books of all the people of the book. Sunnis much less so... Its all what medhab you follow as to how you perceive religion wise , the people around you

Kind of odd statement given that the majority of Sufis are Sunni.

Edited December 1, 2008 by aisha kandisha

[UmmSqueakster 54]

As far as following advice, different medhabs have different opinions, some being much more tolerant of other religions as some less so. The sufis are very open to all the books of all the people of the book. Sunnis much less so... Its all what medhab you follow as to how you perceive religion wise , the people around you

I'm sorry, but this is a huge pet peeve of mine. Sufis are not a seperate branch of Islam. Sufis practice the science of purification of the heart, tasawwuf. They also adhere to a madhab (school) of fiqh (jurisprudence) in either the sunni or shia branches.

I don't know what you mean by "sufis are very open to all the books of all the people of the book" but the sufis I know aren't universalists and are firmly within ahl al sunnah wa jamaah, orthodox sunni islam. For them, it's the Qur'an and the sunnah and that's it.

[Ban Hammer 13,110]

Forgive me humpkin bumpkin. You have changed your names a couple of times so its hard to keep trackthat you are Bridget.

It's pumpkin with a p, though hubby pronounces it bumpkin with a b. And I so wish I could go back to doodlebug!!!

i loved the name doodlebug

[brad836 0]

Forgive me humpkin bumpkin. You have changed your names a couple of times so its hard to keep trackthat you are Bridget.

It's pumpkin with a p, though hubby pronounces it bumpkin with a b. And I so wish I could go back to doodlebug!!!

i loved the name doodlebug

Let's please make it clear that there isnt different kinds of islam, so called moderate islam verses fundamentalist islam. there is just another way that is used to divide us to somehow classify good and bad muslims in the view of non believers. Being a devout muslim who perfects salaat and makes every effort to follow the qur'an and the sunnah of the prophet(saw) to please the creator (swt) doesn't mean that you are somehow bad or dangerous? This is weird logic? there is one ummah. i would also discourage talk of sects. again there is only one ummah. lets stand and support one another .

peace be upon you

[~Jackie~ 30]

She'll always be doods to me.

[chaishai 1]

You knew when you posted this entire topic it would turn into a disaster. Come on you've been around VJ long enough to know......

p.s How did Chaishai bring up Jews? She was commenting that not all Muslims are terrorists and you went and told her she shouldn't be able to have an opinion because she's a Jew married to a Jew...

Whats surprising is that is was ok... then people wanted it to devolve. Like they are bored or something.. Its ridiculous. I wont let it turn into a disaster.. thats a choice and I am not making it... She is entitled to an opinion but the reality is that the topic really isnt applicable to her ( defending Islam to non family members and friends) She is entitled to an opinion of course but this is not really applicable to her situation in that she has no instance of having to defend or explain a religion she does not practice and shes not married to a muslim so this whole posting never applied to her. I think she knows that point and frankly so do you and everyone else. Posts can only devolve if people want them too.

I will say that after seeing the chabad lubovich massacre and that little jewish boy left behind standing in a pool of his parents blood and all the jews killed there for no other reason other than being jewish, I think that would easily be a conversation at a family gathering of hers but I dont think the subject would be the gentle nature and tolerance of radical islam

Maybe I am not married to a muslim but that doesnt mean that I dont encounter bigotry... I dont even know why I am arguing its like a brick wall.

Thats why I find these discussions/debates/threads so fascinating - I learn so much from everyone.

Thanks for sharing this additional information, I certainly didn't know this & I'm sure many others didnt as well.

I never knew any Jewish person ever lived in an Arab country until I was in Tunisia this past spring & yes there are many Jewish People who live in the country and Djerba. Some friends, family & coworkers dont believe it when I tell them this!

My husband took great pride in showing me not only the beautiful Mosques in his country but also the Catholic Cathedral & the Jewish Synagogues (which were heavily guarded). I was amazed by all of it, there is such beauty in religions of all kinds.

Tunisia was the only Arab country to come under direct Nazi occupation during World War II; Morocco and Algeria were governed by Vichy France. When the Nazis arrived in Tunisia in November, 1942, the nation was home to some 100,000 Jews. According to Yad Vashem, the Nazis imposed anti-Semitic policies including forcing Jews to wear Star of David badges, fines, and confiscation of property. More than 5,000 Jews were sent to forced labor camps, where 46 are known to have died, see Jews outside Europe under Nazi occupation; an additional 160 Tunisian Jews in France were sent to European death camps. Tunisia, however, was home to Khaled Abdelwahhab, the first Arab nominated for the Israeli Righteous Among the Nations award.

After independence in the 1950s, Tunisia's Jewish Community Council was abolished by the government and many Jewish areas and buildings were destroyed for "urban renewal."

By 1967, the country's Jewish population was fleeing, over 40,000 had left for Israel, leaving 20,000. During the Six-Day War, Jews were attacked in riots, and, despite government apologies, 7,000 Jews immigrated to France.

Although the synagogues are wonderful "historic places to visit" what happened to the jews in Tunisia was horrific. Dont let empty buildings fool you. There were some amazing Tunisians that saved alot of Jews but dont let empty buildings fool you . Very few jews remain there and in 2002 terrorists bombed Djerba s synagogue. I have been in Tunisia 3 times and was married there and because I know what used to be there I know what is missing. Many TUnisians cooperated with the Nazis and took the property left behind of the Jews

Wow that is so not how my MIL described her childhood!

[sandinista! 1,816]

Maybe I am not married to a muslim but that doesnt mean that I dont encounter bigotry... I dont even know why I am arguing its like a brick wall.

i'm certainly more interested in what you have to say on the matter than certain people blathering on and on about the same tired bs. your family has an interesting background, and you offer a perspective that is completely unique here. i think it's completely relevant and not out of place in this topic at all. your posts, and a few others' were the only things worth reading in here anyways.

[chaishai 1]

Maybe I am not married to a muslim but that doesnt mean that I dont encounter bigotry... I dont even know why I am arguing its like a brick wall.

i'm certainly more interested in what you have to say on the matter than certain people blathering on and on about the same tired bs. your family has an interesting background, and you offer a perspective that is completely unique here. i think it's completely relevant and not out of place in this topic at all. your posts, and a few others' were the only things worth reading in here anyways.

thank you. and isnt it a novel idea that my moroccan/tunisian jew husband from the middle east might have experience with racism and bigotry.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

You knew when you posted this entire topic it would turn into a disaster. Come on you've been around VJ long enough to know......

p.s How did Chaishai bring up Jews? She was commenting that not all Muslims are terrorists and you went and told her she shouldn't be able to have an opinion because she's a Jew married to a Jew...

Whats surprising is that is was ok... then people wanted it to devolve. Like they are bored or something.. Its ridiculous. I wont let it turn into a disaster.. thats a choice and I am not making it... She is entitled to an opinion but the reality is that the topic really isnt applicable to her ( defending Islam to non family members and friends) She is entitled to an opinion of course but this is not really applicable to her situation in that she has no instance of having to defend or explain a religion she does not practice and shes not married to a muslim so this whole posting never applied to her. I think she knows that point and frankly so do you and everyone else. Posts can only devolve if people want them too.

I will say that after seeing the chabad lubovich massacre and that little jewish boy left behind standing in a pool of his parents blood and all the jews killed there for no other reason other than being jewish, I think that would easily be a conversation at a family gathering of hers but I dont think the subject would be the gentle nature and tolerance of radical islam

Maybe I am not married to a muslim but that doesnt mean that I dont encounter bigotry... I dont even know why I am arguing its like a brick wall.

Thats why I find these discussions/debates/threads so fascinating - I learn so much from everyone.

Thanks for sharing this additional information, I certainly didn't know this & I'm sure many others didnt as well.

I never knew any Jewish person ever lived in an Arab country until I was in Tunisia this past spring & yes there are many Jewish People who live in the country and Djerba. Some friends, family & coworkers dont believe it when I tell them this!

My husband took great pride in showing me not only the beautiful Mosques in his country but also the Catholic Cathedral & the Jewish Synagogues (which were heavily guarded). I was amazed by all of it, there is such beauty in religions of all kinds.

Tunisia was the only Arab country to come under direct Nazi occupation during World War II; Morocco and Algeria were governed by Vichy France. When the Nazis arrived in Tunisia in November, 1942, the nation was home to some 100,000 Jews. According to Yad Vashem, the Nazis imposed anti-Semitic policies including forcing Jews to wear Star of David badges, fines, and confiscation of property. More than 5,000 Jews were sent to forced labor camps, where 46 are known to have died, see Jews outside Europe under Nazi occupation; an additional 160 Tunisian Jews in France were sent to European death camps. Tunisia, however, was home to Khaled Abdelwahhab, the first Arab nominated for the Israeli Righteous Among the Nations award.

After independence in the 1950s, Tunisia's Jewish Community Council was abolished by the government and many Jewish areas and buildings were destroyed for "urban renewal."

By 1967, the country's Jewish population was fleeing, over 40,000 had left for Israel, leaving 20,000. During the Six-Day War, Jews were attacked in riots, and, despite government apologies, 7,000 Jews immigrated to France.

Although the synagogues are wonderful "historic places to visit" what happened to the jews in Tunisia was horrific. Dont let empty buildings fool you. There were some amazing Tunisians that saved alot of Jews but dont let empty buildings fool you . Very few jews remain there and in 2002 terrorists bombed Djerba s synagogue. I have been in Tunisia 3 times and was married there and because I know what used to be there I know what is missing. Many TUnisians cooperated with the Nazis and took the property left behind of the Jews

Wow that is so not how my MIL described her childhood!

The population of Jews in Tunisia has diminished from hundreds of thousands to now less several thousand. I think that if you question your MIL as to why so many jews left for Israel you will find that they left because of various reason. Many fleeing Nazi occupation, then pogroms in the 1950s and then after the 7 days war, Jews were attacked in riots. Algeria never got the chance that Tunisians got. They were immediately sent out of the country and lost all property. There are no synagogues left in Algeria save one or 2 and there were thousands and thousands in every major city. Its ironic that I am not Jewish and I know this and you are and tell me your mother in law never mentioned it. I find that very sad because you should be the staunchest defender of Judaism and the plight of the diaspora and not say because you MIL didnt talk about it , it didnt happen. I find that absolutely the saddest thing of all. That a goy who went to school in your country and studied there and studied at Yad Vachem would be a stauncher defender of the victims of the shoah than you. I find that shocking and sad. I know what I know because I learned first hand from holocaust victims and sephardic jews.

[chaishai 1]

You knew when you posted this entire topic it would turn into a disaster. Come on you've been around VJ long enough to know......

p.s How did Chaishai bring up Jews? She was commenting that not all Muslims are terrorists and you went and told her she shouldn't be able to have an opinion because she's a Jew married to a Jew...

Whats surprising is that is was ok... then people wanted it to devolve. Like they are bored or something.. Its ridiculous. I wont let it turn into a disaster.. thats a choice and I am not making it... She is entitled to an opinion but the reality is that the topic really isnt applicable to her ( defending Islam to non family members and friends) She is entitled to an opinion of course but this is not really applicable to her situation in that she has no instance of having to defend or explain a religion she does not practice and shes not married to a muslim so this whole posting never applied to her. I think she knows that point and frankly so do you and everyone else. Posts can only devolve if people want them too.

I will say that after seeing the chabad lubovich massacre and that little jewish boy left behind standing in a pool of his parents blood and all the jews killed there for no other reason other than being jewish, I think that would easily be a conversation at a family gathering of hers but I dont think the subject would be the gentle nature and tolerance of radical islam

Maybe I am not married to a muslim but that doesnt mean that I dont encounter bigotry... I dont even know why I am arguing its like a brick wall.

Thats why I find these discussions/debates/threads so fascinating - I learn so much from everyone.

Thanks for sharing this additional information, I certainly didn't know this & I'm sure many others didnt as well.

I never knew any Jewish person ever lived in an Arab country until I was in Tunisia this past spring & yes there are many Jewish People who live in the country and Djerba. Some friends, family & coworkers dont believe it when I tell them this!

My husband took great pride in showing me not only the beautiful Mosques in his country but also the Catholic Cathedral & the Jewish Synagogues (which were heavily guarded). I was amazed by all of it, there is such beauty in religions of all kinds.

Tunisia was the only Arab country to come under direct Nazi occupation during World War II; Morocco and Algeria were governed by Vichy France. When the Nazis arrived in Tunisia in November, 1942, the nation was home to some 100,000 Jews. According to Yad Vashem, the Nazis imposed anti-Semitic policies including forcing Jews to wear Star of David badges, fines, and confiscation of property. More than 5,000 Jews were sent to forced labor camps, where 46 are known to have died, see Jews outside Europe under Nazi occupation; an additional 160 Tunisian Jews in France were sent to European death camps. Tunisia, however, was home to Khaled Abdelwahhab, the first Arab nominated for the Israeli Righteous Among the Nations award.

After independence in the 1950s, Tunisia's Jewish Community Council was abolished by the government and many Jewish areas and buildings were destroyed for "urban renewal."

By 1967, the country's Jewish population was fleeing, over 40,000 had left for Israel, leaving 20,000. During the Six-Day War, Jews were attacked in riots, and, despite government apologies, 7,000 Jews immigrated to France.

Although the synagogues are wonderful "historic places to visit" what happened to the jews in Tunisia was horrific. Dont let empty buildings fool you. There were some amazing Tunisians that saved alot of Jews but dont let empty buildings fool you . Very few jews remain there and in 2002 terrorists bombed Djerba s synagogue. I have been in Tunisia 3 times and was married there and because I know what used to be there I know what is missing. Many TUnisians cooperated with the Nazis and took the property left behind of the Jews

Wow that is so not how my MIL described her childhood!

The population of Jews in Tunisia has diminished from hundreds of thousands to now less several thousand. I think that if you question your MIL as to why so many jews left for Israel you will find that they left because of various reason. Many fleeing Nazi occupation, then pogroms in the 1950s and then after the 7 days war, Jews were attacked in riots. Algeria never got the chance that Tunisians got. They were immediately sent out of the country and lost all property. There are no synagogues left in Algeria save one or 2 and there were thousands and thousands in every major city. Its ironic that I am not Jewish and I know this and you are and tell me your mother in law never mentioned it. I find that very sad because you should be the staunchest defender of Judaism and the plight of the diaspora and not say because you MIL didnt talk about it , it didnt happen. I find that absolutely the saddest thing of all. That a goy who went to school in your country and studied there and studied at Yad Vachem would be a stauncher defender of the victims of the shoah than you. I find that shocking and sad. I know what I know because I learned first hand from holocaust victims and sephardic jews.

I was being sarcastic. Yes I know the history. Not EVERY jew in tunisia suffered. My MIL had a beautiful life in Tunis, cried when she left, was much worse off financially in her early days in Israel and looks back on her days in Tunisia with great great fondness. Dont criticize me on not defending Judaism, who are you? JUST because I talk specifically about my MIL does NOT mean that I am doubting history.

what the H#LL does this discussion have to do with my feelings ont he holocaust? You dont know me, you dont know my family history, you dont know ANYTHING about my situation at all, so do not address me or make judgements on me.

It must be nice to make someones blood boil that you dont even know, is this how you deal with your internal pain? Try spreading around some good feelings instead, maybe good things will come back to you.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

As far as following advice, different medhabs have different opinions, some being much more tolerant of other religions as some less so. The sufis are very open to all the books of all the people of the book. Sunnis much less so... Its all what medhab you follow as to how you perceive religion wise , the people around you

I'm sorry, but this is a huge pet peeve of mine. Sufis are not a seperate branch of Islam. Sufis practice the science of purification of the heart, tasawwuf. They also adhere to a madhab (school) of fiqh (jurisprudence) in either the sunni or shia branches.

I don't know what you mean by "sufis are very open to all the books of all the people of the book" but the sufis I know aren't universalists and are firmly within ahl al sunnah wa jamaah, orthodox sunni islam. For them, it's the Qur'an and the sunnah and that's it.

Pet peeve or not,, Suffis do not practice their religion like many others. You never see a group of sufis lobbing hand grenades into hotel rooms or shooting a babys parents in front of them to leave them wandering in a pool of blood. Their goal is peace, enlightenment and dialog between them and other religions. I whole heareted disagree with you on this one. In purifying your heart, you dont demonise and terrorise others.... in that they are very different

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

You knew when you posted this entire topic it would turn into a disaster. Come on you've been around VJ long enough to know......

p.s How did Chaishai bring up Jews? She was commenting that not all Muslims are terrorists and you went and told her she shouldn't be able to have an opinion because she's a Jew married to a Jew...

Whats surprising is that is was ok... then people wanted it to devolve. Like they are bored or something.. Its ridiculous. I wont let it turn into a disaster.. thats a choice and I am not making it... She is entitled to an opinion but the reality is that the topic really isnt applicable to her ( defending Islam to non family members and friends) She is entitled to an opinion of course but this is not really applicable to her situation in that she has no instance of having to defend or explain a religion she does not practice and shes not married to a muslim so this whole posting never applied to her. I think she knows that point and frankly so do you and everyone else. Posts can only devolve if people want them too.

I will say that after seeing the chabad lubovich massacre and that little jewish boy left behind standing in a pool of his parents blood and all the jews killed there for no other reason other than being jewish, I think that would easily be a conversation at a family gathering of hers but I dont think the subject would be the gentle nature and tolerance of radical islam

Maybe I am not married to a muslim but that doesnt mean that I dont encounter bigotry... I dont even know why I am arguing its like a brick wall.

Thats why I find these discussions/debates/threads so fascinating - I learn so much from everyone.

Thanks for sharing this additional information, I certainly didn't know this & I'm sure many others didnt as well.

I never knew any Jewish person ever lived in an Arab country until I was in Tunisia this past spring & yes there are many Jewish People who live in the country and Djerba. Some friends, family & coworkers dont believe it when I tell them this!

My husband took great pride in showing me not only the beautiful Mosques in his country but also the Catholic Cathedral & the Jewish Synagogues (which were heavily guarded). I was amazed by all of it, there is such beauty in religions of all kinds.

Tunisia was the only Arab country to come under direct Nazi occupation during World War II; Morocco and Algeria were governed by Vichy France. When the Nazis arrived in Tunisia in November, 1942, the nation was home to some 100,000 Jews. According to Yad Vashem, the Nazis imposed anti-Semitic policies including forcing Jews to wear Star of David badges, fines, and confiscation of property. More than 5,000 Jews were sent to forced labor camps, where 46 are known to have died, see Jews outside Europe under Nazi occupation; an additional 160 Tunisian Jews in France were sent to European death camps. Tunisia, however, was home to Khaled Abdelwahhab, the first Arab nominated for the Israeli Righteous Among the Nations award.

After independence in the 1950s, Tunisia's Jewish Community Council was abolished by the government and many Jewish areas and buildings were destroyed for "urban renewal."

By 1967, the country's Jewish population was fleeing, over 40,000 had left for Israel, leaving 20,000. During the Six-Day War, Jews were attacked in riots, and, despite government apologies, 7,000 Jews immigrated to France.

Although the synagogues are wonderful "historic places to visit" what happened to the jews in Tunisia was horrific. Dont let empty buildings fool you. There were some amazing Tunisians that saved alot of Jews but dont let empty buildings fool you . Very few jews remain there and in 2002 terrorists bombed Djerba s synagogue. I have been in Tunisia 3 times and was married there and because I know what used to be there I know what is missing. Many TUnisians cooperated with the Nazis and took the property left behind of the Jews

Wow that is so not how my MIL described her childhood!

The population of Jews in Tunisia has diminished from hundreds of thousands to now less several thousand. I think that if you question your MIL as to why so many jews left for Israel you will find that they left because of various reason. Many fleeing Nazi occupation, then pogroms in the 1950s and then after the 7 days war, Jews were attacked in riots. Algeria never got the chance that Tunisians got. They were immediately sent out of the country and lost all property. There are no synagogues left in Algeria save one or 2 and there were thousands and thousands in every major city. Its ironic that I am not Jewish and I know this and you are and tell me your mother in law never mentioned it. I find that very sad because you should be the staunchest defender of Judaism and the plight of the diaspora and not say because you MIL didnt talk about it , it didnt happen. I find that absolutely the saddest thing of all. That a goy who went to school in your country and studied there and studied at Yad Vachem would be a stauncher defender of the victims of the shoah than you. I find that shocking and sad. I know what I know because I learned first hand from holocaust victims and sephardic jews.

I was being sarcastic. Yes I know the history. Not EVERY jew in tunisia suffered. My MIL had a beautiful life in Tunis, cried when she left, was much worse off financially in her early days in Israel and looks back on her days in Tunisia with great great fondness. Dont criticize me on not defending Judaism, who are you? JUST because I talk specifically about my MIL does NOT mean that I am doubting history.

what the H#LL does this discussion have to do with my feelings ont he holocaust? You dont know me, you dont know my family history, you dont know ANYTHING about my situation at all, so do not address me or make judgements on me.

It must be nice to make someones blood boil that you dont even know, is this how you deal with your internal pain? Try spreading around some good feelings instead, maybe good things will come back to you.

Again , I did not start this thread to be anything about Judaism and I stated very clearly that this was about dealing with non muslim relatives and defending islam to them . I clearly stated to you that because of your background, it probably was not relative to you. I absolutely am sure that you and or your husband has experienced bigotry. I did not pander to you or to anyone else about that fact nor does anything to do with my "internal pain" have ANYTHING to do with my reaction to you saying your MIL didnt see any of these things growing up. That statement is qualifying that this stuff that i have talked about never happened. The jews of North Africa have experienced very varied things to varying levels, The Moroccans and Tunisians having it the easiest but they still suffered in concentration camps and women were raped and forced into brothels by both the nazis and some members of the Tunisian populace. Libya was completely annihilated with graveyards paved over and much evidence of Algeria s jewish history wiped away. This has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the original topic but it does support the arguement that many muslims have NOT been tolerant of jewishness in their treatment of sephardic jews. I did not see sarcasm in your remark as much as negating it and frankly pandering to the victimisers gets no one anywhere. Much like Israel gets to tow the line for whats happened to palestinians, the jews have unfortunately alternatingly thrived and then suffered under Islamic rule. One century everything is ok and the next one demonised and suffering from pogroms and abuse both physical and economic sanctions

Again this has NOTHING to do with the original topic and as much as its an interesting topic, its not one I brought up. It devolved into it. But bigotry against jews was not what I wanted to discuss. I wanted to discuss Islam and how its defended at family gatherings and among friends. I would find no shortage of debate on Jews and Muslims although I see now even as a muslim, I am not real keen on pandering and not discussing truth to somehow appease others. What happened to arab jewry in the light of the establishment of Israel is simply tragic. Many had no exposure to problems before and then politics became the impetus to be thrown from their homes...

[chaishai 1]

You knew when you posted this entire topic it would turn into a disaster. Come on you've been around VJ long enough to know......

p.s How did Chaishai bring up Jews? She was commenting that not all Muslims are terrorists and you went and told her she shouldn't be able to have an opinion because she's a Jew married to a Jew...

Whats surprising is that is was ok... then people wanted it to devolve. Like they are bored or something.. Its ridiculous. I wont let it turn into a disaster.. thats a choice and I am not making it... She is entitled to an opinion but the reality is that the topic really isnt applicable to her ( defending Islam to non family members and friends) She is entitled to an opinion of course but this is not really applicable to her situation in that she has no instance of having to defend or explain a religion she does not practice and shes not married to a muslim so this whole posting never applied to her. I think she knows that point and frankly so do you and everyone else. Posts can only devolve if people want them too.

I will say that after seeing the chabad lubovich massacre and that little jewish boy left behind standing in a pool of his parents blood and all the jews killed there for no other reason other than being jewish, I think that would easily be a conversation at a family gathering of hers but I dont think the subject would be the gentle nature and tolerance of radical islam

Maybe I am not married to a muslim but that doesnt mean that I dont encounter bigotry... I dont even know why I am arguing its like a brick wall.

Thats why I find these discussions/debates/threads so fascinating - I learn so much from everyone.

Thanks for sharing this additional information, I certainly didn't know this & I'm sure many others didnt as well.

I never knew any Jewish person ever lived in an Arab country until I was in Tunisia this past spring & yes there are many Jewish People who live in the country and Djerba. Some friends, family & coworkers dont believe it when I tell them this!

My husband took great pride in showing me not only the beautiful Mosques in his country but also the Catholic Cathedral & the Jewish Synagogues (which were heavily guarded). I was amazed by all of it, there is such beauty in religions of all kinds.

Tunisia was the only Arab country to come under direct Nazi occupation during World War II; Morocco and Algeria were governed by Vichy France. When the Nazis arrived in Tunisia in November, 1942, the nation was home to some 100,000 Jews. According to Yad Vashem, the Nazis imposed anti-Semitic policies including forcing Jews to wear Star of David badges, fines, and confiscation of property. More than 5,000 Jews were sent to forced labor camps, where 46 are known to have died, see Jews outside Europe under Nazi occupation; an additional 160 Tunisian Jews in France were sent to European death camps. Tunisia, however, was home to Khaled Abdelwahhab, the first Arab nominated for the Israeli Righteous Among the Nations award.

After independence in the 1950s, Tunisia's Jewish Community Council was abolished by the government and many Jewish areas and buildings were destroyed for "urban renewal."

By 1967, the country's Jewish population was fleeing, over 40,000 had left for Israel, leaving 20,000. During the Six-Day War, Jews were attacked in riots, and, despite government apologies, 7,000 Jews immigrated to France.

Although the synagogues are wonderful "historic places to visit" what happened to the jews in Tunisia was horrific. Dont let empty buildings fool you. There were some amazing Tunisians that saved alot of Jews but dont let empty buildings fool you . Very few jews remain there and in 2002 terrorists bombed Djerba s synagogue. I have been in Tunisia 3 times and was married there and because I know what used to be there I know what is missing. Many TUnisians cooperated with the Nazis and took the property left behind of the Jews

Wow that is so not how my MIL described her childhood!

The population of Jews in Tunisia has diminished from hundreds of thousands to now less several thousand. I think that if you question your MIL as to why so many jews left for Israel you will find that they left because of various reason. Many fleeing Nazi occupation, then pogroms in the 1950s and then after the 7 days war, Jews were attacked in riots. Algeria never got the chance that Tunisians got. They were immediately sent out of the country and lost all property. There are no synagogues left in Algeria save one or 2 and there were thousands and thousands in every major city. Its ironic that I am not Jewish and I know this and you are and tell me your mother in law never mentioned it. I find that very sad because you should be the staunchest defender of Judaism and the plight of the diaspora and not say because you MIL didnt talk about it , it didnt happen. I find that absolutely the saddest thing of all. That a goy who went to school in your country and studied there and studied at Yad Vachem would be a stauncher defender of the victims of the shoah than you. I find that shocking and sad. I know what I know because I learned first hand from holocaust victims and sephardic jews.

I was being sarcastic. Yes I know the history. Not EVERY jew in tunisia suffered. My MIL had a beautiful life in Tunis, cried when she left, was much worse off financially in her early days in Israel and looks back on her days in Tunisia with great great fondness. Dont criticize me on not defending Judaism, who are you? JUST because I talk specifically about my MIL does NOT mean that I am doubting history.

what the H#LL does this discussion have to do with my feelings ont he holocaust? You dont know me, you dont know my family history, you dont know ANYTHING about my situation at all, so do not address me or make judgements on me.

It must be nice to make someones blood boil that you dont even know, is this how you deal with your internal pain? Try spreading around some good feelings instead, maybe good things will come back to you.

Again , I did not start this thread to be anything about Judaism and I stated very clearly that this was about dealing with non muslim relatives and defending islam to them . I clearly stated to you that because of your background, it probably was not relative to you. I absolutely am sure that you and or your husband has experienced bigotry. I did not pander to you or to anyone else about that fact nor does anything to do with my "internal pain" have ANYTHING to do with my reaction to you saying your MIL didnt see any of these things growing up. That statement is qualifying that this stuff that i have talked about never happened. The jews of North Africa have experienced very varied things to varying levels, The Moroccans and Tunisians having it the easiest but they still suffered in concentration camps and women were raped and forced into brothels by both the nazis and some members of the Tunisian populace. Libya was completely annihilated with graveyards paved over and much evidence of Algeria s jewish history wiped away. This has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the original topic but it does support the arguement that many muslims have NOT been tolerant of jewishness in their treatment of sephardic jews. I did not see sarcasm in your remark as much as negating it and frankly pandering to the victimisers gets no one anywhere. Much like Israel gets to tow the line for whats happened to palestinians, the jews have unfortunately alternatingly thrived and then suffered under Islamic rule. One century everything is ok and the next one demonised and suffering from pogroms and abuse both physical and economic sanctions

Again this has NOTHING to do with the original topic and as much as its an interesting topic, its not one I brought up. It devolved into it. But bigotry against jews was not what I wanted to discuss. I wanted to discuss Islam and how its defended at family gatherings and among friends. I would find no shortage of debate on Jews and Muslims although I see now even as a muslim, I am not real keen on pandering and not discussing truth to somehow appease others. What happened to arab jewry in the light of the establishment of Israel is simply tragic. Many had no exposure to problems before and then politics became the impetus to be thrown from their homes...

I dont care what your original post was and BTW YOU brought up the fact that I was jewish, not me. I didnt bring up jews at all until you pointed out this fact.

My sarcasm regarding my MILs experience was intended to point out the fact that you are generalizing, once again, i know its a big shock for people.

I think that you owe me an apology for your accusation that I do not take the holocaust seriously.