Links between Islam and Terrorism

[prince+angel 3]

Thats why I find these discussions/debates/threads so fascinating - I learn so much from everyone.

Thanks for sharing this additional information, I certainly didn't know this & I'm sure many others didnt as well.

I never knew any Jewish person ever lived in an Arab country until I was in Tunisia this past spring & yes there are many Jewish People who live in the country and Djerba. Some friends, family & coworkers dont believe it when I tell them this!

My husband took great pride in showing me not only the beautiful Mosques in his country but also the Catholic Cathedral & the Jewish Synagogues (which were heavily guarded). I was amazed by all of it, there is such beauty in religions of all kinds.

Tunisia was the only Arab country to come under direct Nazi occupation during World War II; Morocco and Algeria were governed by Vichy France. When the Nazis arrived in Tunisia in November, 1942, the nation was home to some 100,000 Jews. According to Yad Vashem, the Nazis imposed anti-Semitic policies including forcing Jews to wear Star of David badges, fines, and confiscation of property. More than 5,000 Jews were sent to forced labor camps, where 46 are known to have died, see Jews outside Europe under Nazi occupation; an additional 160 Tunisian Jews in France were sent to European death camps. Tunisia, however, was home to Khaled Abdelwahhab, the first Arab nominated for the Israeli Righteous Among the Nations award.

After independence in the 1950s, Tunisia's Jewish Community Council was abolished by the government and many Jewish areas and buildings were destroyed for "urban renewal."

By 1967, the country's Jewish population was fleeing, over 40,000 had left for Israel, leaving 20,000. During the Six-Day War, Jews were attacked in riots, and, despite government apologies, 7,000 Jews immigrated to France.

Although the synagogues are wonderful "historic places to visit" what happened to the jews in Tunisia was horrific. Dont let empty buildings fool you. There were some amazing Tunisians that saved alot of Jews but dont let empty buildings fool you . Very few jews remain there and in 2002 terrorists bombed Djerba s synagogue. I have been in Tunisia 3 times and was married there and because I know what used to be there I know what is missing. Many TUnisians cooperated with the Nazis and took the property left behind of the Jews

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

˙sdoɥs ʇɟıƃ ɹıǝɥʇ uı sɹıuǝʌnos ʇsǝןooɔ ǝɥʇ ןןǝs ʎǝɥʇ 'ןןɐ ɹǝʇɟɐ ˙ʎɐʍʎuɐ sʇsıɥppnq ɹǝɟǝɹd ɥɔnɯ ı 'ʇsǝuoɥ ǝq oʇ

The story of what happened to Irans jews is very interesting. Esther took place in Iran.It has one of the richest Jewish histories of all the MENA countries..

Interesting note from recent events

They just had a HOLOCAUST CARTOON CONTEST sponsored by the new government and hosted a whole holocaust denial conference..

The history of the jews in Iran is absolutely amazing. Too bad the new government feel compelled to host events denying genocide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International...f_the_Holocaust

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Thats why I find these discussions/debates/threads so fascinating - I learn so much from everyone.

Thanks for sharing this additional information, I certainly didn't know this & I'm sure many others didnt as well.

I never knew any Jewish person ever lived in an Arab country until I was in Tunisia this past spring & yes there are many Jewish People who live in the country and Djerba. Some friends, family & coworkers dont believe it when I tell them this!

My husband took great pride in showing me not only the beautiful Mosques in his country but also the Catholic Cathedral & the Jewish Synagogues (which were heavily guarded). I was amazed by all of it, there is such beauty in religions of all kinds.

Tunisia was the only Arab country to come under direct Nazi occupation during World War II; Morocco and Algeria were governed by Vichy France. When the Nazis arrived in Tunisia in November, 1942, the nation was home to some 100,000 Jews. According to Yad Vashem, the Nazis imposed anti-Semitic policies including forcing Jews to wear Star of David badges, fines, and confiscation of property. More than 5,000 Jews were sent to forced labor camps, where 46 are known to have died, see Jews outside Europe under Nazi occupation; an additional 160 Tunisian Jews in France were sent to European death camps. Tunisia, however, was home to Khaled Abdelwahhab, the first Arab nominated for the Israeli Righteous Among the Nations award.

After independence in the 1950s, Tunisia's Jewish Community Council was abolished by the government and many Jewish areas and buildings were destroyed for "urban renewal."

By 1967, the country's Jewish population was fleeing, over 40,000 had left for Israel, leaving 20,000. During the Six-Day War, Jews were attacked in riots, and, despite government apologies, 7,000 Jews immigrated to France.

Although the synagogues are wonderful "historic places to visit" what happened to the jews in Tunisia was horrific. Dont let empty buildings fool you. There were some amazing Tunisians that saved alot of Jews but dont let empty buildings fool you . Very few jews remain there and in 2002 terrorists bombed Djerba s synagogue. I have been in Tunisia 3 times and was married there and because I know what used to be there I know what is missing. Many TUnisians cooperated with the Nazis and took the property left behind of the Jews

Here is an article about one Tunisian who saved the lives of many Jews and refused to cooperate with the Nazis

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid...icle%2FShowFull

Lists of Jews deported from Tunisia to concentration camps

http://www.yadvashem.org/wps/portal/!u...xt_form=results

Jews deported From Tunisia who perished in Auschwitz and other locations

http://www.yadvashem.org/wps/portal/!u...Q8b&npage=2

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Thats why I find these discussions/debates/threads so fascinating - I learn so much from everyone.

Thanks for sharing this additional information, I certainly didn't know this & I'm sure many others didnt as well.

I never knew any Jewish person ever lived in an Arab country until I was in Tunisia this past spring & yes there are many Jewish People who live in the country and Djerba. Some friends, family & coworkers dont believe it when I tell them this!

My husband took great pride in showing me not only the beautiful Mosques in his country but also the Catholic Cathedral & the Jewish Synagogues (which were heavily guarded). I was amazed by all of it, there is such beauty in religions of all kinds.

Tunisia was the only Arab country to come under direct Nazi occupation during World War II; Morocco and Algeria were governed by Vichy France. When the Nazis arrived in Tunisia in November, 1942, the nation was home to some 100,000 Jews. According to Yad Vashem, the Nazis imposed anti-Semitic policies including forcing Jews to wear Star of David badges, fines, and confiscation of property. More than 5,000 Jews were sent to forced labor camps, where 46 are known to have died, see Jews outside Europe under Nazi occupation; an additional 160 Tunisian Jews in France were sent to European death camps. Tunisia, however, was home to Khaled Abdelwahhab, the first Arab nominated for the Israeli Righteous Among the Nations award.

After independence in the 1950s, Tunisia's Jewish Community Council was abolished by the government and many Jewish areas and buildings were destroyed for "urban renewal."

By 1967, the country's Jewish population was fleeing, over 40,000 had left for Israel, leaving 20,000. During the Six-Day War, Jews were attacked in riots, and, despite government apologies, 7,000 Jews immigrated to France.

Although the synagogues are wonderful "historic places to visit" what happened to the jews in Tunisia was horrific. Dont let empty buildings fool you. There were some amazing Tunisians that saved alot of Jews but dont let empty buildings fool you . Very few jews remain there and in 2002 terrorists bombed Djerba s synagogue. I have been in Tunisia 3 times and was married there and because I know what used to be there I know what is missing. Many TUnisians cooperated with the Nazis and took the property left behind of the Jews

Here is the printed article about the Tunisian Man who saved the lives of many jews and prevented the rape and imprisonment of Jewish women in brothels by local brothel owners conspiring with Nazis

At the height of the Second World War, Khaled Abdelwahhab hid a group of Jews on his farm in a small Tunisian town, saving them from the Nazi troops occupying the north African nation.

Tunisian Arab Khaled Abdelwahhab has become the first Arab nominated for recognition as "Righteous Among the Nations" by Yad Vashem.

Photo: AP

More than six decades later, Abdelwahhab has become the first Arab nominated for recognition as "Righteous Among the Nations" by Yad Vashem, Israel's official Holocaust memorial. The honor is bestowed on non-Jews who risked their lives to save Jews from Nazi persecution.

The nomination of Abdelwahhab, who died in 1997, has reopened a little-known chapter of the Holocaust, one that unfolded in the Arab countries of north Africa.

Abdelwahhab was nominated by Robert Satloff, director of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, a US think tank.

Satloff said that after the Sept. 11 attacks, he moved to Morocco to research what happened in Arab lands during the Holocaust in hopes of countering Holocaust denial in the Arab world and tempering some of the sentiments he thought helped pave the way for the attacks.

"I asked, did any Arabs save Jews in the Holocaust?" Satloff said. "If they did, these are stories about which Arabs could be proud. It would also entail accepting the context, because it would mean there was something to save Jews from."

That search led Satloff to Abdelwahhab, the cosmopolitan son of an aristocratic family who was 32 when German troops arrived in Tunisia in November 1942. The north African nation was home to some 100,000 Jews at the time.

According to Yad Vashem, the Germans instituted anti-Semitic policies in Tunisia, imposing fines on Jews, forcing many to wear Star of David badges and confiscating property. More than 5,000 Jews were sent to forced labor camps, where 46 are known to have died. Around 160 Tunisian Jews who happened to be in France were dispatched to European death camps. Most Tunisians, according to the material compiled by Yad Vashem, did not attempt to intervene.

Abdelwahhab, an amateur archaeologist and architect with something of a hedonistic bent, served as an interlocutor between the population of the coastal town of Mahdia and the German occupation forces, Satloff said. He was also a country farmer, a sometime Tunisian civil servant and an avid traveler.

When he heard one evening that German officers were planning to rape Odette Boukris, a local Jewish woman, he gathered her family and several other Jewish families in Mahdia - a total of around two dozen people - and took them to his farm outside town. He hid them for four months, until the German occupation ended.

"Khaled is the finest example, though not the only one, of an Arab who saved Jews from persecution during the German occupation," Satloff said.

Satloff first heard Abdelwahhab's story several years ago from Anny Boukris, a 71-year-old resident of a Los Angeles suburb. An 11-year-old in 1943, Boukris is Odette Boukris' daughter and was also hidden by Abdelwahhab.

Satloff traveled to Mahdia and talked to Boukris' childhood friends, who confirmed the story. Just weeks after Boukris recorded her 83-page testimony, she passed away.

Abdelwahhab still has to be approved by the Yad Vashem commission that grants the honor. Since the war, Yad Vashem has conferred the status on 21,700 people, including some 60 Muslims from the Balkans. But no Arab had ever been nominated.

"The commission will decide based on the strict criteria for recognizing the Righteous Among the Nations. We can't speculate on what the outcome will be," said Estee Yaari, a spokeswoman for Yad Vashem.

Tunisia was the only north African country to come under direct German rule. Nearby Morocco and Algeria were governed by the pro-German collaborators of Vichy France.

Bruce Maddy-Weitzman, a north Africa expert at Tel Aviv University, said that Morocco's king at the time, Mohammed V, intervened to protect Jews in his country. "But the story in Tunisia was quite different, because there was a direct occupation by the German army," he said.

[bhajishah 4]

I really didnt realize or care about the amount of ingnorance and propaganda on both sides, as we living well the american/muslim etc life, It struck me hard recently when my best gori friend( I had enc her to seek religion any for her son to socialize and etc.. know the basics of the books) well she was weak enough to feed ino the machine blaming and pointing they are bad. She told me of a story of man and family escaping Iran getting robbed, people getting finger cut off yada yada, muslim are antichrist theme. this former muslim man had found the true blood of christ and salvation and now selling books. ( to hungry people like her.)I first basically was appaled she didnt really know me, that i have interest and exposed to Islam since young age, believe in its true doctrines. its Men who vile a religion. Not once in our Mosque are they downing christians. Usual theme is how to improve self and take care of others. However, this is alot of what i hear from my christian friends, they need to" save me. from the evils of islam .Ha.inturn they are spreading hate and this is not what the youth of our society wants and or needs. Many a talk like this starts and or propergtes wars, when a country or religion is blamed for the faults of a pack of evil doers. The man rom Iran has many problems with people who done him wrong, he found a scapegoat in Islam, got his precious Asylum and is making money off of it. So be it. Pain and revenge that extreme will only burn up the self..wise word to the OP and all. The tongue is mightier than the sword and this is v true. IMO Christianity in my dealing has never been a peaceful religion. but thats a whole other topic. Just like this concept of Islam being the "antichrist" well hello even i know that this persona or thing will be loved and fooled by the greater whole. NOt hated.

Im just interested in the banter withing the desi community, like Chicago where the neighborhoods, video stores, restaurants, clothing stores are shared.

Hopefully it all will die down and business as usual soon.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I really didnt realize or care about the amount of ingnorance and propaganda on both sides, as we living well the american/muslim etc life, It struck me hard recently when my best gori friend( I had enc her to seek religion any for her son to socialize and etc.. know the basics of the books) well she was weak enough to feed ino the machine blaming and pointing they are bad. She told me of a story of man and family escaping Iran getting robbed, people getting finger cut off yada yada, muslim are antichrist theme. this former muslim man had found the true blood of christ and salvation and now selling books. ( to hungry people like her.)I first basically was appaled she didnt really know me, that i have interest and exposed to Islam since young age, believe in its true doctrines. its Men who vile a religion. Not once in our Mosque are they downing christians. Usual theme is how to improve self and take care of others. However, this is alot of what i hear from my christian friends, they need to" save me. from the evils of islam .Ha.inturn they are spreading hate and this is not what the youth of our society wants and or needs. Many a talk like this starts and or propergtes wars, when a country or religion is blamed for the faults of a pack of evil doers. The man rom Iran has many problems with people who done him wrong, he found a scapegoat in Islam, got his precious Asylum and is making money off of it. So be it. Pain and revenge that extreme will only burn up the self..wise word to the OP and all. The tongue is mightier than the sword and this is v true. IMO Christianity in my dealing has never been a peaceful religion. but thats a whole other topic. Just like this concept of Islam being the "antichrist" well hello even i know that this persona or thing will be loved and fooled by the greater whole. NOt hated.

Im just interested in the banter withing the desi community, like Chicago where the neighborhoods, video stores, restaurants, clothing stores are shared.

Hopefully it all will die down and business as usual soon.

Have they identified the origins of the attackers yet?

[sereia 0]

why does practically every post supposidely about Muslims evolve into something to do with Jews. Can we go back to the original topic people?

According to all that I have read and been told Islam was always first starting with Adam. Islam is sooo not based on the Judaic faith.

Islam first? I've heard that countless times from Muslims but wonder where they came up with that.....

Edited December 1, 2008 by Sheherazade

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

why does practically every post supposidely about Muslims evolve into something to do with Jews. Can we go back to the original topic people?

The person who brought the jews into this was chai shai..a jewish person herself... It has nothing to do with the original topic..I get aggravated when jews are scapegoated and people act like they were never harmed in arabic countries.. thats why I posted about Tunisia when it was pointed out to me how beautiful the EMPTY synagogues were...

I knew it was being baited into a flame thread which why if you read through the posts, I didnt want it to devolve into that..

[sereia 0]

You knew when you posted this entire topic it would turn into a disaster. Come on you've been around VJ long enough to know......

p.s How did Chaishai bring up Jews? She was commenting that not all Muslims are terrorists and you went and told her she shouldn't be able to have an opinion because she's a Jew married to a Jew...

Edited December 1, 2008 by Sheherazade

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

why does practically every post supposidely about Muslims evolve into something to do with Jews. Can we go back to the original topic people?

According to all that I have read and been told Islam was always first starting with Adam. Islam is sooo not based on the Judaic faith.

Islam first? I've heard that countless times from Muslims but wonder where they came up with that.....

Considering that the Jews were here first and Islam wasnt not started until the 600s, its pretty far fetched to discount the existance or "specialness " of Jews. They were here first.. and many muslims in muslim countries are of jewish genetic descent because people werent genetically "muslim" but you can be genetically jewish if you carry the cohenim gene.. Sounds like people are taking soundbites from spouses and friends but you cant say that Judaism wasnt here first. It was and so was the bible, hense the injeel.

[Zee Bee 61]

[bhajishah 4]

Pakistani nationality and of course muslims. given India and Pakistans sordid history highs and lows, its another hot button. Esp if Indian officials blaming the country of Pakistan and not the attackers. Like typical ameican thought Pakistan protects Bin Laden, when Pakistan the govt hard to control who goes in and out of tribal mountain regions. Its easy to get xtians majority on board with the game by blaming a religion (coz its easier to control something if it has a name and face), gets support of thier majority and so on . This world political stuff is all big game, hopefull the new adminstration (Obama) wont try to control the people using hate and fear..and really its the terrorists who win when a whole world is up in arms over 12 or so terrorists take over a few hotels. WOW.. start throwing mud @ the other 1 billion Msulims in the world, and more screwed up youths get bigger ideas to get together and attack something elses or bigger...

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

You knew when you posted this entire topic it would turn into a disaster. Come on you've been around VJ long enough to know......

p.s How did Chaishai bring up Jews? She was commenting that not all Muslims are terrorists and you went and told her she shouldn't be able to have an opinion because she's a Jew married to a Jew...

Whats surprising is that is was ok... then people wanted it to devolve. Like they are bored or something.. Its ridiculous. I wont let it turn into a disaster.. thats a choice and I am not making it... She is entitled to an opinion but the reality is that the topic really isnt applicable to her ( defending Islam to non family members and friends) She is entitled to an opinion of course but this is not really applicable to her situation in that she has no instance of having to defend or explain a religion she does not practice and shes not married to a muslim so this whole posting never applied to her. I think she knows that point and frankly so do you and everyone else. Posts can only devolve if people want them too.

I will say that after seeing the chabad lubovich massacre and that little jewish boy left behind standing in a pool of his parents blood and all the jews killed there for no other reason other than being jewish, I think that would easily be a conversation at a family gathering of hers but I dont think the subject would be the gentle nature and tolerance of radical islam

[doodlebugg 10]

why does practically every post supposidely about Muslims evolve into something to do with Jews. Can we go back to the original topic people?

According to all that I have read and been told Islam was always first starting with Adam. Islam is sooo not based on the Judaic faith.

Islam first? I've heard that countless times from Muslims but wonder where they came up with that.....

I was only commenting on wahrania's post.

It's a basic core belief in Islam that the first prophets were muslim. Sure the Quran was established in the 600's but that doesn't mean that the people weren't practicing long before that.

Anyway my point isn't to get into a religion debate, just that it was odd for wahrania to bring up something that Jewish scholars have stated where she herself is muslim. Obviously Jewish scholars are going to favor their religion and Christian scholars will favor their religion. I just think that once you actually state that you are of X-religion you should follow that particular religion's scholarly advice rather than confusing yourself. Just my two cents.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

why does practically every post supposidely about Muslims evolve into something to do with Jews. Can we go back to the original topic people?

According to all that I have read and been told Islam was always first starting with Adam. Islam is sooo not based on the Judaic faith.

Islam first? I've heard that countless times from Muslims but wonder where they came up with that.....

I was only commenting on wahrania's post.

It's a basic core belief in Islam that the first prophets were muslim. Sure the Quran was established in the 600's but that doesn't mean that the people weren't practicing long before that.

Anyway my point isn't to get into a religion debate, just that it was odd for wahrania to bring up something that Jewish scholars have stated where she herself is muslim. Obviously Jewish scholars are going to favor their religion and Christian scholars will favor their religion. I just think that once you actually state that you are of X-religion you should follow that particular religion's scholarly advice rather than confusing yourself. Just my two cents.

Forgive me humpkin bumpkin. You have changed your names a couple of times so its hard to keep trackthat you are Bridget.

To respect jewish thoughts and jewish history, you do not have to be Jewish. The jews have archaology on their side as well as artifacts and other things to support their existance and their language. No political or personal mindset will ever diminish that evidence. This topic is not about jews and muslims. Its about talking about and defending religion to outside people. As far as following advice, different medhabs have different opinions, some being much more tolerant of other religions as some less so. The sufis are very open to all the books of all the people of the book. Sunnis much less so... Its all what medhab you follow as to how you perceive religion wise , the people around you