Links between Islam and Terrorism

[doodlebugg 10]

I would venture to say that the amount of money we would spend in trying to solve some of these issues of poverty and oppression would amount to much less than what the war machine has cost us.

These are tough issues that require solutions that are not easy. I think this country is at a critical point.

ITA agree Allousa And I'm just hoping that Obama has gotten that message.

by the looks of who he's picked for his cabinet so far I really don't have high hopes for peace in the middle east any time soon during his administration. That's not to say I had high hopes if McCain got in either. The only one I thought could do any good over there was Ron Paul but I doubt he'll ever get into office.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

ur absolutely correct........people wondered how ben what ever (sorry i refuse to give his name credit) got such a big following.........it pretty basic and simple if ur children are starving or in need of medical........and u have no hope in resolving the problems that effect ur loved ones and u have watched them die off if a person comes and says join me and ur family will be cared for.......they are going to be loyal to the person that gives them the life sustaining essentials that any human needs..........to stop the terrorist we have to cure the problem......killing poor people trying to live that are in fear of their life either from death if they don't help the terrorist or death to their family because of the lack of life sustaining essentials is not the answer..........

As much as I believe in peace and want peace for not only the ME but the world (yeah, I know I'm dreaming of utopia), when it comes to my son...I will give up all to save his life. I know exactly what you mean. Without a second thought I would give my life for him...sell my body and soul...whatever I had to do to keep him alive. I completely understand why people with no other means turn to the radicals.

I would venture to say that the amount of money we would spend in trying to solve some of these issues of poverty and oppression would amount to much less than what the war machine has cost us.

These are tough issues that require solutions that are not easy. I think this country is at a critical point.

I think there comes a point when you have to decide the lesser of two evils. Granted our country has made some mistakes but I personally support the United States because I feel that our country has much more of a pluralistic interest in promoting safety and peace than many of the "wronged parties". I have to side in favor of the safety and the judgement of the government of the United States than taking pity on people like the taliban and people who are working for the destruction of western civilization. I realise many of these people were wronged and have quite rightous anger but even within their socieities, militant islamists and militant islam does not support the rights of women. I support the lesser of two evils, the United States and its values, wants and needs.

I do not want western civilization turning into something like this. No thanks. Ill stand with our government and the choices it makes before Ill stand with what religion is choosing for me.Whether 9 11 was justified from a moral point of view in some peoples eyes, it will never be justified for me . I am absolutely FURIOUS that people we let in this country hate us so and I do not support anyone who doesnt support the United States and our way of life remaining here. I feel that if you choose to live in this country, you adhere to our laws and ideals, not benefit from this place and then turn against us. Its the sacrifice of American life that has allowed us to live like we do and frankly I dont think some pashtun warlord or member of militant islam has my best interest at heart. I dont think that the suicide bombers anywhere in the world have my best interest at heart or any western persons best interest at heart, no matter how justified their fury is.If you dont like the kuffars, you dont have to live amongst them. You can choose to live elsewhere. Our country deserves our loyalty and devotion and there are enough people in the US to make up for the decisions of the American government that are not what we share.

I dont want to live under this

Nor do I want to live under sharia law. No thanks. Ill take the American way of life any day of the week, warts and all

[allousa 1]

Kat, where in ANY of my post did I talk about siding with the Taliban or terrorist? I made a clear post about how I abhor any act of terrorism.

I have a hard time understanding that if you have spent so much time in the M.E. that you still don't have an understanding why many in the Muslim community would have anger towards the U.S. Do you not think they care about the safety of their own families just as much as we do? But yet, you still believe the answer is to bomb 'em and kill 'em some more because it's the "us against them mentality"?

It just sounds to me that you really aren't interested in discussing this topic but to rather to just flame on Muslims?

I can TOTALLY understand how so many Americans would develop a hatred of Islam and Muslims because of all that has been thrown into the Media since 9/11. I was raised in a Southern Baptist family and had zero knowledge of the ME. I served in the military and couldn't have been more "HooRah!" And when I first met my husband, while we were dating, we got into horrible arguments over politics. I couldn't believe the things that he was telling me and it created a desire in me to find out the truth behind what he was saying. And IMO, the truth isn't pretty.

If you really think these wars are about "safety", then again, I'm surprised that is your opinion after so much time in the M.E. Religion is perhaps a vehicle but not what is driving this turmoil. It is just the tip of the iceburg.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Kat, where in ANY of my post did I talk about siding with the Taliban or terrorist? I made a clear post about how I abhor any act of terrorism.

I have a hard time understanding that if you have spent so much time in the M.E. that you still don't have an understanding why many in the Muslim community would have anger towards the U.S. Do you not think they care about the safety of their own families just as much as we do? But yet, you still believe the answer is to bomb 'em and kill 'em some more because it's the "us against them mentality"?

It just sounds to me that you really aren't interested in discussing this topic but to rather to just flame on Muslims?

I can TOTALLY understand how so many Americans would develop a hatred of Islam and Muslims because of all that has been thrown into the Media since 9/11. I was raised in a Southern Baptist family and had zero knowledge of the ME. I served in the military and couldn't have been more "HooRah!" And when I first met my husband, while we were dating, we got into horrible arguments over politics. I couldn't believe the things that he was telling me and it created a desire in me to find out the truth behind what he was saying. And IMO, the truth isn't pretty.

If you really think these wars are about "safety", then again, I'm surprised that is your opinion after so much time in the M.E. Religion is perhaps a vehicle but not what is driving this turmoil. It is just the tip of the iceburg.

I wasnt addressing this towards you or mena specifically. I just feel that eventually you have to make hard decisions about who we side with. Your situation is not what am I addressing. The truth is not pretty but dont you think we have to eventually choose a side and accept the the sad truth that we have alot to do with why we are perceived the way we are and take it from there.

The truth is not pretty. Not on our side as Americans and not on their side either

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Kat, where in ANY of my post did I talk about siding with the Taliban or terrorist? I made a clear post about how I abhor any act of terrorism.

I have a hard time understanding that if you have spent so much time in the M.E. that you still don't have an understanding why many in the Muslim community would have anger towards the U.S. Do you not think they care about the safety of their own families just as much as we do? But yet, you still believe the answer is to bomb 'em and kill 'em some more because it's the "us against them mentality"?

It just sounds to me that you really aren't interested in discussing this topic but to rather to just flame on Muslims?

I can TOTALLY understand how so many Americans would develop a hatred of Islam and Muslims because of all that has been thrown into the Media since 9/11. I was raised in a Southern Baptist family and had zero knowledge of the ME. I served in the military and couldn't have been more "HooRah!" And when I first met my husband, while we were dating, we got into horrible arguments over politics. I couldn't believe the things that he was telling me and it created a desire in me to find out the truth behind what he was saying. And IMO, the truth isn't pretty.

If you really think these wars are about "safety", then again, I'm surprised that is your opinion after so much time in the M.E. Religion is perhaps a vehicle but not what is driving this turmoil. It is just the tip of the iceburg.

And I really think the average American does not have a hatred towards muslims. I think they can accept Islam as a religion and muslims as members of society as well. I think most Americans dont understand what is driving people to kill us and to want to kill us because most people just want to live in peace and for all of to get along.. to be happy, to be together, to all enjoy the benefits of living in America and being here.

I understand all the points you are making. What we do about the situation is beyond me. I cringe when I see the US make mistakes in the world that put us in danger but I also cringe when I realise that some of the choices we are making in the war on terror are unfortunately necessary. Whats ironic is that much of the torture being done on people that are captured in actually done in other countries and by foreign countries at black sites. Could we get the information on upcoming attacks and plans in any other way than by detention and torture at these black sites? I am not really sure we could by any other way than we the western world are doing. We are not "winning "the war on terror by any stretch of the imagination and I agree that there is so much anger between the west and our "enemies" that it will be very hard to extricate ourselves from the situations we find ourselves in

[allousa 1]

Why "pick" a side? Why not find a solution rather than battering each other to death? THAT is what I'm saying.

As I said in an earlier post, I don't think the War on Terror can be won by picking a side. I think that many, many people including alot of American think that Islam is what fuels the terrorism but I really think it's just the vehicle and NOT the REASON why it continues. Picking a side, IMO only continues to fuel it.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Why "pick" a side? Why not find a solution rather than battering each other to death? THAT is what I'm saying.

As I said in an earlier post, I don't think the War on Terror can be won by picking a side. I think that many, many people including alot of American think that Islam is what fuels the terrorism but I really think it's just the vehicle and NOT the REASON why it continues. Picking a side, IMO only continues to fuel it.

What do you think the solution is?

Interesting video about how foreign countries are extracting information on our behalf.

[doodlebugg 10]

How about we pull our troops out of like...EVERYWHERE and focus on our domestic issues? Let the rest of the world sort out their own problems for once and leave us out of it!!!

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Why "pick" a side? Why not find a solution rather than battering each other to death? THAT is what I'm saying.

As I said in an earlier post, I don't think the War on Terror can be won by picking a side. I think that many, many people including alot of American think that Islam is what fuels the terrorism but I really think it's just the vehicle and NOT the REASON why it continues. Picking a side, IMO only continues to fuel it.

What do you think the solution is?

Interesting video about how foreign countries are extracting information on our behalf.

I am sorry. The link didnt post. I think its very interesting that alot of the interrogation of people is not taking place on american soil or at guantanamo

[allousa 1]

I get what you are saying that some Americans do want peace and safety for all. But what about what is done by our government that most certainly reflects on the American people? Gitmo and the legality of torture has done immense damage to our image. I've read more than one terrorism expert that talks about how much more legitmate intel was captured through means other than torture.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard people say... "Well, we better get 'em over there before they get us here!" Well you know what, we invaded their countries, we ARE targeting their religion. I have YET to see any type of program televised that talks about the history of the U.S. involvement in the ME.

I think to begin with the U.S. needs to come clean about why we've been in the ME and it sure as heck hasn't been about spreading freedom and democracy. Somehow, someway we need to help provide a means of support or improvement in the countries where radicalism thrives. When people have an option to sustain their families w/o having to depend on radical groups, I really believe they would take another option.

[allousa 1]

While I do believe there are solutions that could work and help to diminish terrorism, my fear is that the world as a whole cannot overcome it's past. By that I mean, the rise and fall of so many empires and nations. The religious wars that have slaughtered so many just to prove superority.

Can we really move past that to help create countries and nations that are less fortunate? I just don't know.

[notime4haterz 0]

I think there comes a point when you have to decide the lesser of two evils. Granted our country has made some mistakes but I personally support the United States because I feel that our country has much more of a pluralistic interest in promoting safety and peace than many of the "wronged parties". I have to side in favor of the safety and the judgement of the government of the United States than taking pity on people like the taliban and people who are working for the destruction of western civilization. I realise many of these people were wronged and have quite rightous anger but even within their socieities, militant islamists and militant islam does not support the rights of women. I support the lesser of two evils, the United States and its values, wants and needs.

I do not want western civilization turning into something like this. No thanks. Ill stand with our government and the choices it makes before Ill stand with what religion is choosing for me.Whether 9 11 was justified from a moral point of view in some peoples eyes, it will never be justified for me . I am absolutely FURIOUS that people we let in this country hate us so and I do not support anyone who doesnt support the United States and our way of life remaining here. I feel that if you choose to live in this country, you adhere to our laws and ideals, not benefit from this place and then turn against us. Its the sacrifice of American life that has allowed us to live like we do and frankly I dont think some pashtun warlord or member of militant islam has my best interest at heart. I dont think that the suicide bombers anywhere in the world have my best interest at heart or any western persons best interest at heart, no matter how justified their fury is.If you dont like the kuffars, you dont have to live amongst them. You can choose to live elsewhere. Our country deserves our loyalty and devotion and there are enough people in the US to make up for the decisions of the American government that are not what we share.

I dont want to live under this

Nor do I want to live under sharia law. No thanks. Ill take the American way of life any day of the week, warts and all

I don't get you...

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I think there comes a point when you have to decide the lesser of two evils. Granted our country has made some mistakes but I personally support the United States because I feel that our country has much more of a pluralistic interest in promoting safety and peace than many of the "wronged parties". I have to side in favor of the safety and the judgement of the government of the United States than taking pity on people like the taliban and people who are working for the destruction of western civilization. I realise many of these people were wronged and have quite rightous anger but even within their socieities, militant islamists and militant islam does not support the rights of women. I support the lesser of two evils, the United States and its values, wants and needs.

I do not want western civilization turning into something like this. No thanks. Ill stand with our government and the choices it makes before Ill stand with what religion is choosing for me.Whether 9 11 was justified from a moral point of view in some peoples eyes, it will never be justified for me . I am absolutely FURIOUS that people we let in this country hate us so and I do not support anyone who doesnt support the United States and our way of life remaining here. I feel that if you choose to live in this country, you adhere to our laws and ideals, not benefit from this place and then turn against us. Its the sacrifice of American life that has allowed us to live like we do and frankly I dont think some pashtun warlord or member of militant islam has my best interest at heart. I dont think that the suicide bombers anywhere in the world have my best interest at heart or any western persons best interest at heart, no matter how justified their fury is.If you dont like the kuffars, you dont have to live amongst them. You can choose to live elsewhere. Our country deserves our loyalty and devotion and there are enough people in the US to make up for the decisions of the American government that are not what we share.

I dont want to live under this

Nor do I want to live under sharia law. No thanks. Ill take the American way of life any day of the week, warts and all

I don't get you...

You are a muslim correct? You can make the choice as to whether you want to wear hijab or not, correct? That right is afforded to you because you live in a free society with laws allowing you as a woman to choose what you want to wear. I am a muslim and as much as I feel that the US has wronged other people, I would not want to live under Islamic law nor would I stand with those wronged parties against the USA because I do not feel aligned with them. I feel aligned with the US and its interests. As a muslim, you are supposed to belong to and support the UMMAH which is the muslim people. I do not feel alot of these "wronged parties" even those parties that the US has wronged support things I believe in. The reality is that as a female muslim in many parts of mena you really cant "choose" what to wear and you dont have rights over yourself like you do in the USA. As much as we romanticise life overseas, if someone takes our kids away , we can get them back and custody is determined by US law, not a law that forbids a mother to take a child out of a country without the fathers persmission ( Morocco, Algeria, Libya, Tunisia, Egypt, The gulf states, Lebanon, Jordan) I prefer the US way of life and even though I like visiting mena, I would not ever want to be placed under sharia law. I dont because I understand the ramification of it. I know the USA has made alot of choices that have placed Americans in harms way and I know some muslims are under the understanding that the US had it coming. I choose to side with the US even though I know the drawbacks of our society and its actions.I like living under a society governed by things like the hague convention. Thats what I mean by that statement. Even though some people overseas ( and some even here) think that 9 11 was justified ( no one posting on this board) I do not and I also feel hard towards people who choose to live in the USA and work against it. Living here and in the west is a choice and the westerners dont deserve to have to live in Londistan just because people from other countries want to recreate life back home. I also feel that if muslims want to prevent misconceptions about Islam , they cant align themselves with people who want our way of life as it exists to end.

Thats what I meant.

[allousa 1]

I've left Morocco with just my son a couple of times now and not once have I EVER been questioned or stopped or asked to provide a document from my husband.

And quite frankly, the MENA countries that truly surpress women's rights (S.A. and India) are our allies!!!!

I think the Taliban are the most evil bunch of men and I would love to beat the h-e-l-l out of them myselves for all the brutality they inflict upon women and children. Yet twice now, the U.S. has allowed this cancer to grow and grow. We've turned our backs pretty much on the women of Darfur and now those women and chilren in the Congo.

If the current conflicts are truly what you say about protecting women's rights then why aren't these other regions just as important to us? I am rather surprised that we aren't involved seeing as how there are possible oil resources in Sudan and other marketable resources in the Congo. But since they don't rival the economic value of what is in Iraq, it's not worth our time.

I guess that I'm really surprised that after all that has come out about the fabricated intel and the lies that spurred us to invade Iraq, that you still really think it's about freedom.

And yes, a woman might be free to wear a hijab in this country, but that does not keep her from suffering alot of bigotry and hatred and possible violence.

I have legitimate fears as my son grows older and enters into the public school system because he has a very Muslim name. My husband and I have experienced so much prejudice and hatred in the U.S. already that we do worry about our son.

[me_4_musa 1]

I guess that I'm really surprised that after all that has come out about the fabricated intel and the lies that spurred us to invade Iraq, that you still really think it's about freedom.

well said!