Links between Islam and Terrorism

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I have not met one person who did not feel a sense of sad emotion when 9/11 happened. Granted, no one would dare say otherwise on American soil. But even the people overseas that I talked to (Europe and Palestine but also arabs online) were saddened by what happened. Any decent person does not like to see innocents die.

shal I think it's great that you had a Muslim and Hindu at Thanksgiving. That was interesting. It is good to see people speaking and communicating naturally instead of people forcing it. I think more people should be like that and be open minded.

As for Muslims (moderate) not expressing outrage, I wonder as well. What I find in real life is that Muslims defense mechanism towwards situations like that is only to scream "This is not Islam!" It is also popular amongst Muslims I know in real life to blurt out "We are not responsible for what others do." which is more or less an "It's not my problem" attitude. Sad indeed.

While you aer not responsible for what others do, you should feel upset by this if you are a Muslim because if you feel your religion is being hijacked, you are not doing your religion a good service by not standing up for your religion.

I met muslims who did not express any outrage over 9 11 in France. I was in a restaurant in a part of Paris called BLANCHE and they were showing some sort of footage and a group of Egyptians were laughing about it and cheering. I met some muslims in the US that said we had it coming and were not sorry about it in the least. But then again , I ve been around Islam for almost 8 years so I didnt revert for a relationship or recently.I was smack in the middle of post 9 11 and there were alot of things going on in the first 2 years after 9 11 that werent like they are now. Heck even that minister Jeremiah Wright, advisor to Obama has said in sermons that we had it coming. Its not just muslims who think 9 11 was justified.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

The first Prophet of Islam was Adam. Islam is not a derivative of any other faith.

[sara..... 371]

I don't usually post because I am simply LAZY. My SO is from Pakistan. Before moving here in 2004, he had never been out of PK except on flights as a flight attendant to neighboring countries. He told me that when 911 happened that, in general, people on the streets were happy that it happened and shopkeepers started giving away free "candies" on the street in celebration. Just saying what HE told me. But that has nothing to do with this thread, I guess. Thanksgiving...discussing links between Islam and terrorism in light of what happened in Mumbai. Interesting because one of my guests on Thanksgiving is 1st generation Indian whose parents are from Mumbai. They are Hindu . He said that about 80% of all his family are still there. His sister and parents were in Mumbai on Thanksgiving. He was quite beside himself that day. We did discuss what was happening. He said that what frustrates him is that many moderate muslims fail to speak out about such acts of terrorism. His words were that he doesn't get why moderate Muslims were not more "outraged" by these extremists. OK, now I remember where I was going with what I mentioned about 911. What my SO said about the reaction of the regular people on the streets of Islamabad connects what my Indian friend said. Anyway, now that I think of it: how interesting that I had a Paki immigrant and an Indian with deep roots in Mumbai here on Thanksgiving day. My SO and our Indian friend talked a lot but after the first 15-20 minutes I let them to their man talk while entertained my other other guests.

Thats very interesting what you said about Pakistan and 9/11. Because my husband is also from Pakistan, from the most conservative city, Peshawar. and he told me people where shocked, and even some cried.

we were in pakistan when it happened i never seen any of that only tears and shock from even the market places infact we were in the local market when news of it came...........i was purchasing cds......the man in the shop tried to shield us from the horror of what had happened in our country......the news was on his tv he was watching when we asked what happened he said oh i think this is something from a long time ago......then a family member came and told us we needed to go home right away that is when we saw the news.........im sorry but there was no free candy or rejoicing in the streets

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I don't usually post because I am simply LAZY. My SO is from Pakistan. Before moving here in 2004, he had never been out of PK except on flights as a flight attendant to neighboring countries. He told me that when 911 happened that, in general, people on the streets were happy that it happened and shopkeepers started giving away free "candies" on the street in celebration. Just saying what HE told me. But that has nothing to do with this thread, I guess. Thanksgiving...discussing links between Islam and terrorism in light of what happened in Mumbai. Interesting because one of my guests on Thanksgiving is 1st generation Indian whose parents are from Mumbai. They are Hindu . He said that about 80% of all his family are still there. His sister and parents were in Mumbai on Thanksgiving. He was quite beside himself that day. We did discuss what was happening. He said that what frustrates him is that many moderate muslims fail to speak out about such acts of terrorism. His words were that he doesn't get why moderate Muslims were not more "outraged" by these extremists. OK, now I remember where I was going with what I mentioned about 911. What my SO said about the reaction of the regular people on the streets of Islamabad connects what my Indian friend said. Anyway, now that I think of it: how interesting that I had a Paki immigrant and an Indian with deep roots in Mumbai here on Thanksgiving day. My SO and our Indian friend talked a lot but after the first 15-20 minutes I let them to their man talk while entertained my other other guests.

Thats very interesting what you said about Pakistan and 9/11. Because my husband is also from Pakistan, from the most conservative city, Peshawar. and he told me people where shocked, and even some cried.

we were in pakistan when it happened i never seen any of that only tears and shock from even the market places infact we were in the local market when news of it came...........i was purchasing cds......the man in the shop tried to shield us from the horror of what had happened in our country......the news was on his tv he was watching when we asked what happened he said oh i think this is something from a long time ago......then a family member came and told us we needed to go home right away that is when we saw the news.........im sorry but there was no free candy or rejoicing in the streets

the only video I ever saw with that kind of stuff was in Palestine. This was on the today show and narrated by katie couric

[sereia 0]

While we're going way off topic...I'll chime in here and say my husband said he was in a cafe in Casablanca at the time and there were definitely many people cheering about 9/11.

Edited December 3, 2008 by Sheherazade

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I have not met one person who did not feel a sense of sad emotion when 9/11 happened. Granted, no one would dare say otherwise on American soil. But even the people overseas that I talked to (Europe and Palestine but also arabs online) were saddened by what happened. Any decent person does not like to see innocents die.

shal I think it's great that you had a Muslim and Hindu at Thanksgiving. That was interesting. It is good to see people speaking and communicating naturally instead of people forcing it. I think more people should be like that and be open minded.

As for Muslims (moderate) not expressing outrage, I wonder as well. What I find in real life is that Muslims defense mechanism towwards situations like that is only to scream "This is not Islam!" It is also popular amongst Muslims I know in real life to blurt out "We are not responsible for what others do." which is more or less an "It's not my problem" attitude. Sad indeed.

While you aer not responsible for what others do, you should feel upset by this if you are a Muslim because if you feel your religion is being hijacked, you are not doing your religion a good service by not standing up for your religion.

I met muslims who did not express any outrage over 9 11 in France. I was in a restaurant in a part of Paris called BLANCHE and they were showing some sort of footage and a group of Egyptians were laughing about it and cheering. I met some muslims in the US that said we had it coming and were not sorry about it in the least. But then again , I ve been around Islam for almost 8 years so I didnt revert for a relationship or recently.I was smack in the middle of post 9 11 and there were alot of things going on in the first 2 years after 9 11 that werent like they are now. Heck even that minister Jeremiah Wright, advisor to Obama has said in sermons that we had it coming. Its not just muslims who think 9 11 was justified.

My husband said he was in a cafe in Casablanca at the time and there were definitely many people cheering about 9/11.

At least he was honest about what happened...Many would never admit that it happened

[livelong_prosper 0]

Speaking of profiling I get pulled all the time when I travel for extra searches. One time in Paris I thought I was on my way to prison, I got surrounded by 7 undercover cops, speaking French, which I don’t speak, and telling me I had to go with them, I was in line getting ready to board the plane to home. I had early problems, but for some reason they always give me a hard time. Must look like a mule or something. Lol

I know exactly what you mean!

Try going to Amsterdam 10 times a year LOL

Everytime I go they ask me, "Do you live here? What makes you come here so often?"

Holy #######, what is that pic in your sig?!!

It's a program that transposed my pic and my hubby's pic into one.

PHEW I thought I was on some kind of acid trip when I was looking at it. Looked like you two were one person.

[allousa 1]

Because my family is predominately conservative Christian, there have been many, many discussions about this topic b/w members of just about every member of my family. They also have questioned my husband many times about his views on the Palestinian/Israel issue being that his family is from Gaza and have experienced first hand the turmoil of this situation.

What always surprises me is that when these discussions begin, it's usually why do Muslims "hate us" so much and why don't the moderate Muslims speak out more. When I start to ask them, do you know the history of the U.S.'s involvement in the M.E., they usually say oh, Desert Storm...trying to bring democracy and that kind of stuff.

I do not think that you can have this discussion of Islam=radicals=terrorism without delving into 80+ years of history. Since 9/11, I've made it a point to try and educate myself about the Middle East...the history...the culture. Sure, meeting my husband, his family and traveling to different places has helped foster that interest as well.

IMO, much of this began with the Treaty of Versaille. While it was supposed to be a "peace" treaty, what I have found through study is a few choice men essentially carved up the world into pieces. About this time was also the Balfour Declaration and the beginning of the end for the country once known as Palestine. After the terrible events of the holocaust, many Jews fled to what is now Israel. There were several years of bloody battles before the country of Israel was born. And the U.S. did help the British in their support, particlary with arms, to aid the Jews in defeating the Palestinians that were living on that land. I will also mention that King Abdullah turned his back as well on his own people.

Fast forward to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. We supported the tribal militias with money and arms to help defeat the "Cold War" and proclaimed them our allies. But once all that was over, they were no longer of use to us and we left Afghanistan as a hollow shell that became ripe for greedy tribal war lords.

We also supported Saddam when we felt he was useful in controlling the Iranians and putting a lid on their uprising of power. Even at the time that he was killing many Kurds, we looked the other way as long as he was suiting our interests.

The U.S. has done this time and time again. Look at our involvement in Cambodia and how we did little to stop Pol Pot and his genocide of his own people. Look at our involvment in Central America with the guerillas and deposing governments that did not "suit our interests".

You CANNOT expect to hang with the devil and not expect him to eventually come for your soul....now do you????

How many Americans truly know any of this history? I would suspect that many moderate Muslims know much more of this history and are angered and left feeling betrayed by the U.S. The many moderate Muslims I know absolutely disagree with the loss of INNOCENT civilian life. But they also look on many Americans with dismay because we do not acknowledge how we, the U.S., HAVE invaded/occupied/terrorised many Muslims countries under the disguise of bringing democracy. It has ZERO to do with religion, democracy or freedom....it has EVERYTHING to do with money, power and greed.

I think you only need to look at the history of Rome and see....us....America. If we do not change that path, I'm afraid that this great, great nation...will fall.

[doodlebugg 10]

Because my family is predominately conservative Christian, there have been many, many discussions about this topic b/w members of just about every member of my family. They also have questioned my husband many times about his views on the Palestinian/Israel issue being that his family is from Gaza and have experienced first hand the turmoil of this situation.

What always surprises me is that when these discussions begin, it's usually why do Muslims "hate us" so much and why don't the moderate Muslims speak out more. When I start to ask them, do you know the history of the U.S.'s involvement in the M.E., they usually say oh, Desert Storm...trying to bring democracy and that kind of stuff.

I do not think that you can have this discussion of Islam=radicals=terrorism without delving into 80+ years of history. Since 9/11, I've made it a point to try and educate myself about the Middle East...the history...the culture. Sure, meeting my husband, his family and traveling to different places has helped foster that interest as well.

IMO, much of this began with the Treaty of Versaille. While it was supposed to be a "peace" treaty, what I have found through study is a few choice men essentially carved up the world into pieces. About this time was also the Balfour Declaration and the beginning of the end for the country once known as Palestine. After the terrible events of the holocaust, many Jews fled to what is now Israel. There were several years of bloody battles before the country of Israel was born. And the U.S. did help the British in their support, particlary with arms, to aid the Jews in defeating the Palestinians that were living on that land. I will also mention that King Abdullah turned his back as well on his own people.

Fast forward to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. We supported the tribal militias with money and arms to help defeat the "Cold War" and proclaimed them our allies. But once all that was over, they were no longer of use to us and we left Afghanistan as a hollow shell that became ripe for greedy tribal war lords.

We also supported Saddam when we felt he was useful in controlling the Iranians and putting a lid on their uprising of power. Even at the time that he was killing many Kurds, we looked the other way as long as he was suiting our interests.

The U.S. has done this time and time again. Look at our involvement in Cambodia and how we did little to stop Pol Pot and his genocide of his own people. Look at our involvment in Central America with the guerillas and deposing governments that did not "suit our interests".

You CANNOT expect to hang with the devil and not expect him to eventually come for your soul....now do you????

How many Americans truly know any of this history? I would suspect that many moderate Muslims know much more of this history and are angered and left feeling betrayed by the U.S. The many moderate Muslims I know absolutely disagree with the loss of INNOCENT civilian life. But they also look on many Americans with dismay because we do not acknowledge how we, the U.S., HAVE invaded/occupied/terrorised many Muslims countries under the disguise of bringing democracy. It has ZERO to do with religion, democracy or freedom....it has EVERYTHING to do with money, power and greed.

I think you only need to look at the history of Rome and see....us....America. If we do not change that path, I'm afraid that this great, great nation...will fall.

[livelong_prosper 0]

Because my family is predominately conservative Christian, there have been many, many discussions about this topic b/w members of just about every member of my family. They also have questioned my husband many times about his views on the Palestinian/Israel issue being that his family is from Gaza and have experienced first hand the turmoil of this situation.

What always surprises me is that when these discussions begin, it's usually why do Muslims "hate us" so much and why don't the moderate Muslims speak out more. When I start to ask them, do you know the history of the U.S.'s involvement in the M.E., they usually say oh, Desert Storm...trying to bring democracy and that kind of stuff.

I do not think that you can have this discussion of Islam=radicals=terrorism without delving into 80+ years of history. Since 9/11, I've made it a point to try and educate myself about the Middle East...the history...the culture. Sure, meeting my husband, his family and traveling to different places has helped foster that interest as well.

IMO, much of this began with the Treaty of Versaille. While it was supposed to be a "peace" treaty, what I have found through study is a few choice men essentially carved up the world into pieces. About this time was also the Balfour Declaration and the beginning of the end for the country once known as Palestine. After the terrible events of the holocaust, many Jews fled to what is now Israel. There were several years of bloody battles before the country of Israel was born. And the U.S. did help the British in their support, particlary with arms, to aid the Jews in defeating the Palestinians that were living on that land. I will also mention that King Abdullah turned his back as well on his own people.

Fast forward to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. We supported the tribal militias with money and arms to help defeat the "Cold War" and proclaimed them our allies. But once all that was over, they were no longer of use to us and we left Afghanistan as a hollow shell that became ripe for greedy tribal war lords.

We also supported Saddam when we felt he was useful in controlling the Iranians and putting a lid on their uprising of power. Even at the time that he was killing many Kurds, we looked the other way as long as he was suiting our interests.

The U.S. has done this time and time again. Look at our involvement in Cambodia and how we did little to stop Pol Pot and his genocide of his own people. Look at our involvment in Central America with the guerillas and deposing governments that did not "suit our interests".

You CANNOT expect to hang with the devil and not expect him to eventually come for your soul....now do you????

How many Americans truly know any of this history? I would suspect that many moderate Muslims know much more of this history and are angered and left feeling betrayed by the U.S. The many moderate Muslims I know absolutely disagree with the loss of INNOCENT civilian life. But they also look on many Americans with dismay because we do not acknowledge how we, the U.S., HAVE invaded/occupied/terrorised many Muslims countries under the disguise of bringing democracy. It has ZERO to do with religion, democracy or freedom....it has EVERYTHING to do with money, power and greed.

I think you only need to look at the history of Rome and see....us....America. If we do not change that path, I'm afraid that this great, great nation...will fall.

History does and will repeat itself.

[allousa 1]

PLEASE do not mistake my words into that I think 9/11 was warranted. ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!! I abhor ANY act of terrorism.

My point is to illustrate how certain actions can certainly give birth to radicals and give them excellent opportunities to recruit people to do carry out their actions.

It is my opinion that no matter how much money and military might is spent, we will NOT win the War on Terror. It is an ideal, a concept and not a living thing. To diminish terror and the radicals that inflect it, we have to quell the anger that supports it.

A prime example is what is happening in Afghanistan. The Taliban are now even more stronger there than at the beginning of the current war. These Taliban militas will go into a village and demand that the villagers house them, clothe them and feed them during the night. To refuse them, would mean certain death. So once the Taliban leave, the U.S. and coalition forces come in and accuse, jail and even bomb these villagers while the Taliban escape. We do not understand the language nor the culture. How can we understand these people and support them? So in turn, do you think they understand and support America? Absolutely not! They more than likely blame us and raise a generation in anger at the U.S. And there you have...the next army of recruits.

This is such a complex issue and to say that it is generally about religion is naive in my opinion.

[sara..... 371]

PLEASE do not mistake my words into that I think 9/11 was warranted. ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!! I abhor ANY act of terrorism.

My point is to illustrate how certain actions can certainly give birth to radicals and give them excellent opportunities to recruit people to do carry out their actions.

It is my opinion that no matter how much money and military might is spent, we will NOT win the War on Terror. It is an ideal, a concept and not a living thing. To diminish terror and the radicals that inflect it, we have to quell the anger that supports it.

A prime example is what is happening in Afghanistan. The Taliban are now even more stronger there than at the beginning of the current war. These Taliban militas will go into a village and demand that the villagers house them, clothe them and feed them during the night. To refuse them, would mean certain death. So once the Taliban leave, the U.S. and coalition forces come in and accuse, jail and even bomb these villagers while the Taliban escape. We do not understand the language nor the culture. How can we understand these people and support them? So in turn, do you think they understand and support America? Absolutely not! They more than likely blame us and raise a generation in anger at the U.S. And there you have...the next army of recruits.

This is such a complex issue and to say that it is generally about religion is naive in my opinion.

ur absolutely correct........people wondered how ben what ever (sorry i refuse to give his name credit) got such a big following.........it pretty basic and simple if ur children are starving or in need of medical........and u have no hope in resolving the problems that effect ur loved ones and u have watched them die off if a person comes and says join me and ur family will be cared for.......they are going to be loyal to the person that gives them the life sustaining essentials that any human needs..........to stop the terrorist we have to cure the problem......killing poor people trying to live that are in fear of their life either from death if they don't help the terrorist or death to their family because of the lack of life sustaining essentials is not the answer..........

[notime4haterz 0]

Because my family is predominately conservative Christian, there have been many, many discussions about this topic b/w members of just about every member of my family. They also have questioned my husband many times about his views on the Palestinian/Israel issue being that his family is from Gaza and have experienced first hand the turmoil of this situation.

What always surprises me is that when these discussions begin, it's usually why do Muslims "hate us" so much and why don't the moderate Muslims speak out more. When I start to ask them, do you know the history of the U.S.'s involvement in the M.E., they usually say oh, Desert Storm...trying to bring democracy and that kind of stuff.

I do not think that you can have this discussion of Islam=radicals=terrorism without delving into 80+ years of history. Since 9/11, I've made it a point to try and educate myself about the Middle East...the history...the culture. Sure, meeting my husband, his family and traveling to different places has helped foster that interest as well.

IMO, much of this began with the Treaty of Versaille. While it was supposed to be a "peace" treaty, what I have found through study is a few choice men essentially carved up the world into pieces. About this time was also the Balfour Declaration and the beginning of the end for the country once known as Palestine. After the terrible events of the holocaust, many Jews fled to what is now Israel. There were several years of bloody battles before the country of Israel was born. And the U.S. did help the British in their support, particlary with arms, to aid the Jews in defeating the Palestinians that were living on that land. I will also mention that King Abdullah turned his back as well on his own people.

Fast forward to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. We supported the tribal militias with money and arms to help defeat the "Cold War" and proclaimed them our allies. But once all that was over, they were no longer of use to us and we left Afghanistan as a hollow shell that became ripe for greedy tribal war lords.

We also supported Saddam when we felt he was useful in controlling the Iranians and putting a lid on their uprising of power. Even at the time that he was killing many Kurds, we looked the other way as long as he was suiting our interests.

The U.S. has done this time and time again. Look at our involvement in Cambodia and how we did little to stop Pol Pot and his genocide of his own people. Look at our involvment in Central America with the guerillas and deposing governments that did not "suit our interests".

You CANNOT expect to hang with the devil and not expect him to eventually come for your soul....now do you????

How many Americans truly know any of this history? I would suspect that many moderate Muslims know much more of this history and are angered and left feeling betrayed by the U.S. The many moderate Muslims I know absolutely disagree with the loss of INNOCENT civilian life. But they also look on many Americans with dismay because we do not acknowledge how we, the U.S., HAVE invaded/occupied/terrorised many Muslims countries under the disguise of bringing democracy. It has ZERO to do with religion, democracy or freedom....it has EVERYTHING to do with money, power and greed.

I think you only need to look at the history of Rome and see....us....America. If we do not change that path, I'm afraid that this great, great nation...will fall.

Perfectly said!

[allousa 1]

ur absolutely correct........people wondered how ben what ever (sorry i refuse to give his name credit) got such a big following.........it pretty basic and simple if ur children are starving or in need of medical........and u have no hope in resolving the problems that effect ur loved ones and u have watched them die off if a person comes and says join me and ur family will be cared for.......they are going to be loyal to the person that gives them the life sustaining essentials that any human needs..........to stop the terrorist we have to cure the problem......killing poor people trying to live that are in fear of their life either from death if they don't help the terrorist or death to their family because of the lack of life sustaining essentials is not the answer..........

As much as I believe in peace and want peace for not only the ME but the world (yeah, I know I'm dreaming of utopia), when it comes to my son...I will give up all to save his life. I know exactly what you mean. Without a second thought I would give my life for him...sell my body and soul...whatever I had to do to keep him alive. I completely understand why people with no other means turn to the radicals.

I would venture to say that the amount of money we would spend in trying to solve some of these issues of poverty and oppression would amount to much less than what the war machine has cost us.

These are tough issues that require solutions that are not easy. I think this country is at a critical point.

[Tunisia216 2]

I would venture to say that the amount of money we would spend in trying to solve some of these issues of poverty and oppression would amount to much less than what the war machine has cost us.

These are tough issues that require solutions that are not easy. I think this country is at a critical point.

ITA agree Allousa And I'm just hoping that Obama has gotten that message.