Proving domicile when not living in the U.S.

[Malrothien 6]

The AOS technically isn't approved until the CO adjudicating your case in Montreal approves it to their standards. NVC simply ensures that you have the form completed correctly with all accompanying documents and to be sure that you meet the guidelines per NVC's standards.

[chochamu 0]

Well i must admit i have never gone into something expecting to be denied but i think my interview on the 1st will be denied LOL since my wife is still here in Canada with me and the evidence of domicile is enough to what use to be enough but i guess not anymore. I think i will just make sure that everything else is in tip top order and will have to wait until my wife moves back to Ohio and send enough evidence that can meet domicile to the standards of whoever interviews us. Hoepfully the interviewer is having a REALLY good day or maybe not since its a Monday morning LOL....oh well....i got nothing but time i guess.

[trailmix 77]

Just bumping this info up

Update: Rod James was approved and his wife successfully proved reestablishing domicile review. The key piece of proof seems to be that Rod and his wife had sold their house in Canada. Rod's detailed original post regarding domicile is here

Udate: Two more denials at Montreal for proof of domicile, one approval (after initial denial).

Avery was approved, after her Husband moved back to the U.S. - thread here.

shaloma john Thread is here

neela828 Thread is here

Successful interview for Limbosage, the link below is his post detailing what he provided at the interview to prove reestablishing domicile. His wife (U.S. citizen) has been living in Canada since 2006.

That thread is here

jonesg111 Denied June 18th and again November 24th/2009, those threads are here and here (information from the 4th recent denial can be found in the second thread here, postings by nana1111).

Lenie7 denied in November 2009 - that thread is here

Brocku00 Denied in August 2009 - thread here

Simstar successfully proved reestablishing domicile at her interview in October - thread here

A VJ member who successfully proved reestablishing domicile at their interview - kemijo

kemijo's interview review

Avery had her interview October 13th and was sent away to produce more evidence of reestablishing domicile. That thread can be found here.

Other Canadian VJ members that have been asked to produce more evidence of reestablishing domicile:

Shiri

Wowswift

kristinelder

jonesg111

ink

Also a couple of other threads in the Canada forum regarding domicile:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=208699

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=212678

[jonesg111 0]

The AOS technically isn't approved until the CO adjudicating your case in Montreal approves it to their standards. NVC simply ensures that you have the form completed correctly with all accompanying documents and to be sure that you meet the guidelines per NVC's standards.

That doesn't make sense that the CO can have different "standards" then the NVC. That would make each individiual CO then their own policy maker. What if they decided that you must have two blue eyes to meet their standards?

There are clear standards that are set forth by the NVC and those should be followed but lately in Montreal that is not the case.

[trailmix 77]

I agree that there needs to be more transparency - absolutely no question about that. If they are now taking a different line because of the economy - they need to let us know, it shouldn't be some well guarded secret.

Personally, I think the 'open ended' portion of the guidelines for reestablishing are located in item 5, below. When I read that I see that they are given some leeway - it looks to me like the intent is for the CO to be able to look at someones situation and say - this seems reasonable. It says - "at a minimum must satisfy you". So CO, look at the paperwork, does that seem reasonable to you - yes it does - then they are good to go. However it appears it is used in exactly the opposite way.

A petitioner living abroad not meeting the criteria in 9 FAM 40.41 N6.1-1 who wishes to qualify as a sponsor must satisfy you:

(4) The sponsor must establish an address (a house, an apartment, or arrangements for accommodations with family or friend) and either must have already taken up physical residence in the United States;

or

(5) Must at a minimum to satisfy you that he or she intends to take up residence there no later than the time of the applicant’s immigration to the United States.

So in reading item 5, that's the portion that the COs in Montreal seem to be paying the most attention to and overstepping the leeway given there (in my opinion). It's talking about a minimum there, not saying - they must satisfy you of their intent - and it's a free for all as to what you can require them to do, like:

1. Insisting they move back to the U.S. before their spouse

2. Give up their Canadian Permanent Residency

It goes on to say what that proof should be:

Evidence that the sponsor has established a domicile in the United States and is either physically residing there or intends to do so before or concurrently with the applicant include the following:

(1) Opening a bank account;

(2) Transferring funds to the United States;

(3) Making investments in the United States;

(4) Seeking employment in the United States;

(5) Registering children in U.S. schools;

(6) Applying for a social security number; and

(7) Voting in local, state or federal elections.

However people who have met all of those items, including the lease as stated earlier - are still denied.

My only concern (and Jones this doesn't apply to you now) is that people confuse the different types of domicile and attempt to prove something they cannot prove (like already being domiciled when they are not) and the waters get a little muddy. We don't have enough information about each individual case to get a really clear picture of exactly what is going on here.

We have had several cases where the applicants tried to prove that they were already domiciled in the U.S. or that they were only out of the U.S. 'temporarily' - when in fact they were not and should have been trying to prove reestablishing domicile.

Edited January 22, 2010 by trailmix

[jonesg111 0]

I agree with everything you said Trailmix!

[Cowgirl2 0]

I agree with everything you said Trailmix!

Trailmix is soo right! I was one of those fools that didn't know what I was supposed to prove and ended up getting a denial at the interview...now I know thanks to everyone on VJ!

[Malrothien 6]

Now that we got our interview, I wanted to follow up with what we have for proof of domicile and get your opinions.

We will have:

1) Two bank accounts open (one opened today).

2) Florida driver's license

3) Florida voter's registration

4) Amtrak train stubs, checked baggage tickets, and receipts of purchases on the train

5) Receipts of purchases here in Orlando

6) Copy of application to UCF (hopeful acceptance, but doubt will have it in time)

7) Copy of email sent to landlord with letter of our ending our tenancy as of April 30.

8) Letter to BC Med that will be faxed stating that I have left the province permanently.

9) Cell phone account newly opened

10) Lease agreement with Grandmother

11) Letter from my former employer stating that they laid me off due to my pending move

Does that sound good to you all?

[trailmix 77]

Sounds terrific Mal

[Boop 0]

Oh boy, after reading the problems so many seem to be having I don't think we have a chance.

I'm a USC and a PR of Canada since 2004. We were married in 99' and I've been living with my husband in Canada since 2001. We started this process in 2007 but we were so dang confused and reluctant to be apart during the process we didn't finish it until now. Now we have a son and its just that much more important we stay together.

To prove I intend to reestablish domicile we have:

A US checking and savings account I opened when we visited my family for Christmas last month.

A US funds account with our Canadian bank.

We have our 7 month old son's certificate of birth abroad, his US passport. We applied for his SSN and it should arrive in a couple of weeks.

I have already sent a letter from my parents confirming they are opening their home to us.

I've already sent a U-haul rental quote.

I'm sure this isn't going to be enough. I'm convinced we will be denied.

Is our only option left for me and our son to move down now before the interview?

[trailmix 77]

Maybe, maybe not. I assume you have read some of the reviews above and you saw jonesg111 post today. As he mentioned, they explain some of this confusion on having so many new staff. Hopefully his representative contacting Montreal will enable them to review their approach.

No one can really say how these applications will be viewed now. Technically you should be able to submit evidence that you are reestablishing domicile - but lately, for whatever reason, they have not been accepting this.

You mention you have already send a lease from your parents and a Uhaul quote - you have already submitted these with your DS-230?

[Boop 0]

Maybe, maybe not. I assume you have read some of the reviews above and you saw jonesg111 post today. As he mentioned, they explain some of this confusion on having so many new staff. Hopefully his representative contacting Montreal will enable them to review their approach.

No one can really say how these applications will be viewed now. Technically you should be able to submit evidence that you are reestablishing domicile - but lately, for whatever reason, they have not been accepting this.

You mention you have already send a lease from your parents and a Uhaul quote - you have already submitted these with your DS-230?

Yes, I have read some of the reviews. And I have read what Jones posted. Bless his heart for taking it to his representative. I certainly pray the new staff can be reviewed. Its heartbreaking and frustrating to see others get so far only to run into such complications.

We did not sign a lease with my parents. They are letting us stay for free. I sent the letter from my parents and u-haul quote with my affidavit of support.

[trailmix 77]

Yes, I have read some of the reviews. And I have read what Jones posted. Bless his heart for taking it to his representative. I certainly pray the new staff can be reviewed. Its heartbreaking and frustrating to see others get so far only to run into such complications.

We did not sign a lease with my parents. They are letting us stay for free. I sent the letter from my parents and u-haul quote with my affidavit of support.

Sorry yes, I should have said I-864 not DS-230!

[Dan and Ali 3]

I just wanted to make a note in this thread for anyone applying for K-1's and worrying about domicile ... don't My fiance has been living in Canada for the past year (he is a dual citizen) and it was not an issue at all at our interview -- it was literally not even touched upon once. I'd even go so far as to say that the CO really didn't want to hear about it, haha.

[Flames9_RN 358]

I just wanted to make a note in this thread for anyone applying for K-1's and worrying about domicile ... don't My fiance has been living in Canada for the past year (he is a dual citizen) and it was not an issue at all at our interview -- it was literally not even touched upon once. I'd even go so far as to say that the CO really didn't want to hear about it, haha.

1 should make note that the interview was in VANCOUVER, may be a different story in MOntreal