Proving domicile when not living in the U.S.

[dandkam 0]

Hello everyone... Thanks for all the great information on this forum... wish i would have discovered it before visiting my @#$% lawyer... dont want to make a long story short, so here goes:

My wife is an American citizen and has been living in Canada for many years. We met here (i.e. Canada), got married and are now both living here while I finish my MBA. We want to move to the US, and so I have already filled my paperwork and even had my interview with a consulate agent, but they sent me home citing that I did not provide evidence that my wife is domiciled or has taken concrete steps to prove she will be domiciled in the US on or before the date I intend to enter.

I have made a list of the documents that intend to submit to the consulate to prove her intentions. I plan to send the following:

1. Offer of employment as of May 1, 2009, as well as her acceptance of this offer
2. Her 2007 tax returns (although there is not much income; but my father in law is a co-sponsor... his tax returns have already been submitted)
3. A letter from the bank (or a bank statement) showing that she has an account in the US with some money
4. A letter from her parents stating that we will be living with them for the time being and that there is ample room for us

Is this sufficient evidence to support our claim that she is setting up domicile in the US?

Any suggestions/advice is more than welcome!

Thank you in advance!!

AN

Hi there,

That looks pretty darn good. If you want to include 1 more thing that is free to obtain, why not include a moving estimate? Just go to http://www.upack.com/ - fill in your details and they will email you one, which you can then print off - and they won't even send you any junk mail

[dandkam 0]

Hello everyone... Thanks for all the great information on this forum... wish i would have discovered it before visiting my @#$% lawyer... dont want to make a long story short, so here goes:

My wife is an American citizen and has been living in Canada for many years. We met here (i.e. Canada), got married and are now both living here while I finish my MBA. We want to move to the US, and so I have already filled my paperwork and even had my interview with a consulate agent, but they sent me home citing that I did not provide evidence that my wife is domiciled or has taken concrete steps to prove she will be domiciled in the US on or before the date I intend to enter.

I have made a list of the documents that intend to submit to the consulate to prove her intentions. I plan to send the following:

1. Offer of employment as of May 1, 2009, as well as her acceptance of this offer
2. Her 2007 tax returns (although there is not much income; but my father in law is a co-sponsor... his tax returns have already been submitted)
3. A letter from the bank (or a bank statement) showing that she has an account in the US with some money
4. A letter from her parents stating that we will be living with them for the time being and that there is ample room for us

Is this sufficient evidence to support our claim that she is setting up domicile in the US?

Any suggestions/advice is more than welcome!

Thank you in advance!!

AN

Hi there,

That looks pretty darn good. If you want to include 1 more thing that is free to obtain, why not include a moving estimate? Just go to http://www.upack.com/ - fill in your details and they will email you one, which you can then print off - and they won't even send you any junk mail

[MacDude 0]

Hello everyone... Thanks for all the great information on this forum... wish i would have discovered it before visiting my @#$% lawyer... dont want to make a long story short, so here goes:

My wife is an American citizen and has been living in Canada for many years. We met here (i.e. Canada), got married and are now both living here while I finish my MBA. We want to move to the US, and so I have already filled my paperwork and even had my interview with a consulate agent, but they sent me home citing that I did not provide evidence that my wife is domiciled or has taken concrete steps to prove she will be domiciled in the US on or before the date I intend to enter.

I have made a list of the documents that intend to submit to the consulate to prove her intentions. I plan to send the following:

1. Offer of employment as of May 1, 2009, as well as her acceptance of this offer
2. Her 2007 tax returns (although there is not much income; but my father in law is a co-sponsor... his tax returns have already been submitted)
3. A letter from the bank (or a bank statement) showing that she has an account in the US with some money
4. A letter from her parents stating that we will be living with them for the time being and that there is ample room for us

Is this sufficient evidence to support our claim that she is setting up domicile in the US?

Any suggestions/advice is more than welcome!

Thank you in advance!!

AN

Hi there,

That looks pretty darn good. If you want to include 1 more thing that is free to obtain, why not include a moving estimate? Just go to http://www.upack.com/ - fill in your details and they will email you one, which you can then print off - and they won't even send you any junk mail

Was suggested earlier in the thread... but thanks for mentioning it!

[trailmix 77]

Just want to link in this thread to another thread about a sponsor who is living in Canada being asked to provide more proof of U.S. domicile:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=203242

[trailmix 77]

Just an update to this thread as, since posting it, there are at least 5 other Canadian VJers who have been asked for additional proof of domicile at the time of their interview:

Shiri

Wowswift

kristinelder

jonesg111

ink

I wanted to add this so anyone reading this thread can also look at their posts for further reference.

Also a couple of other threads in the Canada forum regarding domicile:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=208699

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=212678

Absolutely not, your lawyer is just wrong, she doesn't know what she is talking about.

Yes, the letters/application forms are all great evidence of domicile. It's kind of a moot point now since he will actually be physically living there, so I assume he will have his driver's license, car insurance, maybe a bill or two in his name with his U.S. address etc etc.

Proving domicile when he is actually living there should be a piece of cake really.

I wasn't going to bother posting the whole domicile information thing - since it won't really help you at this point, however, I can see that you are questioning the validity of what your lawyer told you and you will probably find this information useful - so here goes.

If you look at the instructions for the I-864, although they are not easy to interpret, they do outline the basics of proving domicile:

15. Country of Domicile. This question is asking you to indicate the country where you maintain your principal residence and where you plan to reside for the foreseeable future. If your mailing address and/or place of residence is not in the United States, but your country of domicile is the United States, you must attach a written explanation and documentary evidence indicating how you meet the domicile requirement. If you are not currently living in the United States, you may meet the domicile requirement if you can submit evidence to establish that any of the following conditions apply:

A. You are employed by a certain organization. (lists organizations on the I-864)

B. You are living abroad temporarily. If you are not currently living in the United States, you must show that your trip abroad is temporary and that you have maintained your domicile in the United States. You can show this by providing proof of your voting record in the United States, proof of paying U.S. State or local taxes, proof of having property in the United States, proof of maintaining bank or investment accounts in the United States, or proof of having a permanent mailing address in the United States. Other proof could be evidence that you are a student studying abroad or that a foreign government has authorized a temporary stay.

C. You intend in good faith to reestablish your domicile in the United States no later than the date of the intending immigrant's admission or adjustment of status. You must submit proof that you have taken concrete steps to establish you will be domiciled in the United States at a time no later than the date of the intending immigrant's admission or adjustment of status. Concrete steps might include accepting a job in the United States, signing a lease or purchasing a residence in the United States, or registering children in U.S. schools. Please attach proof of the steps you have taken to establish domicile as described above.

So what does all this mean?

When you look at the instructions above it makes it obvious that the sponsor can prove domicile even if they are not physically residing in the United States.

For most people who are temporarily abroad and fall under category B - it's pretty transparent - should not be too hard to prove domicile if you have only been out of the U.S. for a few months for example.

However, what if you and your spouse are living together in another country, like Canada - this is where Item C comes in.

All they are asking under this category is that you intend in good faith to reestablish your domicile in the U.S. - basically, at the same time as, or before the immigrant.

This applies equally to sponsors who have never lived in the U.S. - which is where it can be misleading - how can you 'reestablish' something that you never physically established in the first place?

The bottom line is domicile, for U.S. immigration purposes, does not mean that you have to physically be in the U.S.

So how do you go about proving C?

All I can tell you is what we did (and neither one of us had lived in the U.S. prior to immigrating). Really you just have to think through what would prove that you are intending to move to the U.S. with the new immigrant. This will mean different documentation for different situations, but basically this is what we sent in (in total - initially we did not send enough proof of reestablishing domicile and received an RFE from NVC for more):

- A letter from my Sister in Nebraska, stating that we would be living in the U.S. with them after my Husband received his visa and that we had come to an agreement regarding money for accommodation. She also stated that they should feel free to call her if they had any questions.

- I opened a U.S. bank account with my Sister in Nebraska and deposited a small sum of money there. I sent along a bank statement from them.

- We opened a U.S. dollar account with a Canadian bank and moved most of our funds there.

- We applied in March of 2007. We sold our rental property in January of 2007 - we sent letters from our lawyer stating we had sold that house.

- An online quote from Upack for shipping our goods from Calgary to Nebraska.

- A copy of the letter of acknowlegement from the SS office, stating I had applied for my SSN in March 2007 and the card should arrive in 2 weeks.

That's about all I can think of. There may have been a couple of other documents.

So you can see how this all goes back to putting yourself in the mindset to figure out what might prove domicle in your situation - a voting record, applications to schools etc. I believe it would be much easier to prove if the sponsor had actually lived there before and already had established bank accounts etc.

It's all about saying...hey, we are moving! - then documenting everything required for that move, as well as providing documentation of ties to the U.S.

[Dan and Ali 3]

Just an update to this thread as, since posting it, there are at least 5 other Canadian VJers who have been asked for additional proof of domicile at the time of their interview:

Shiri

Wowswift

kristinelder

jonesg111

ink

I wanted to add this so anyone reading this thread can also look at their posts for further reference.

Also a couple of other threads in the Canada forum regarding domicile:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=208699

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=212678

Absolutely not, your lawyer is just wrong, she doesn't know what she is talking about.

Yes, the letters/application forms are all great evidence of domicile. It's kind of a moot point now since he will actually be physically living there, so I assume he will have his driver's license, car insurance, maybe a bill or two in his name with his U.S. address etc etc.

Proving domicile when he is actually living there should be a piece of cake really.

I wasn't going to bother posting the whole domicile information thing - since it won't really help you at this point, however, I can see that you are questioning the validity of what your lawyer told you and you will probably find this information useful - so here goes.

If you look at the instructions for the I-864, although they are not easy to interpret, they do outline the basics of proving domicile:

15. Country of Domicile. This question is asking you to indicate the country where you maintain your principal residence and where you plan to reside for the foreseeable future. If your mailing address and/or place of residence is not in the United States, but your country of domicile is the United States, you must attach a written explanation and documentary evidence indicating how you meet the domicile requirement. If you are not currently living in the United States, you may meet the domicile requirement if you can submit evidence to establish that any of the following conditions apply:

A. You are employed by a certain organization. (lists organizations on the I-864)

B. You are living abroad temporarily. If you are not currently living in the United States, you must show that your trip abroad is temporary and that you have maintained your domicile in the United States. You can show this by providing proof of your voting record in the United States, proof of paying U.S. State or local taxes, proof of having property in the United States, proof of maintaining bank or investment accounts in the United States, or proof of having a permanent mailing address in the United States. Other proof could be evidence that you are a student studying abroad or that a foreign government has authorized a temporary stay.

C. You intend in good faith to reestablish your domicile in the United States no later than the date of the intending immigrant's admission or adjustment of status. You must submit proof that you have taken concrete steps to establish you will be domiciled in the United States at a time no later than the date of the intending immigrant's admission or adjustment of status. Concrete steps might include accepting a job in the United States, signing a lease or purchasing a residence in the United States, or registering children in U.S. schools. Please attach proof of the steps you have taken to establish domicile as described above.

So what does all this mean?

When you look at the instructions above it makes it obvious that the sponsor can prove domicile even if they are not physically residing in the United States.

For most people who are temporarily abroad and fall under category B - it's pretty transparent - should not be too hard to prove domicile if you have only been out of the U.S. for a few months for example.

However, what if you and your spouse are living together in another country, like Canada - this is where Item C comes in.

All they are asking under this category is that you intend in good faith to reestablish your domicile in the U.S. - basically, at the same time as, or before the immigrant.

This applies equally to sponsors who have never lived in the U.S. - which is where it can be misleading - how can you 'reestablish' something that you never physically established in the first place?

The bottom line is domicile, for U.S. immigration purposes, does not mean that you have to physically be in the U.S.

So how do you go about proving C?

All I can tell you is what we did (and neither one of us had lived in the U.S. prior to immigrating). Really you just have to think through what would prove that you are intending to move to the U.S. with the new immigrant. This will mean different documentation for different situations, but basically this is what we sent in (in total - initially we did not send enough proof of reestablishing domicile and received an RFE from NVC for more):

- A letter from my Sister in Nebraska, stating that we would be living in the U.S. with them after my Husband received his visa and that we had come to an agreement regarding money for accommodation. She also stated that they should feel free to call her if they had any questions.

- I opened a U.S. bank account with my Sister in Nebraska and deposited a small sum of money there. I sent along a bank statement from them.

- We opened a U.S. dollar account with a Canadian bank and moved most of our funds there.

- We applied in March of 2007. We sold our rental property in January of 2007 - we sent letters from our lawyer stating we had sold that house.

- An online quote from Upack for shipping our goods from Calgary to Nebraska.

- A copy of the letter of acknowlegement from the SS office, stating I had applied for my SSN in March 2007 and the card should arrive in 2 weeks.

That's about all I can think of. There may have been a couple of other documents.

So you can see how this all goes back to putting yourself in the mindset to figure out what might prove domicle in your situation - a voting record, applications to schools etc. I believe it would be much easier to prove if the sponsor had actually lived there before and already had established bank accounts etc.

It's all about saying...hey, we are moving! - then documenting everything required for that move, as well as providing documentation of ties to the U.S.

This thread is amazing -- it really should be pinned. Thanks so much for posting it!

[trailmix 77]

Another update to this thread today as Avery had her interview and was sent away to produce more evidence of reestablishing domicile. That thread can be found here:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=223016

Just an update to this thread as, since posting it, there are at least 5 other Canadian VJers who have been asked for additional proof of domicile at the time of their interview:

Shiri

Wowswift

kristinelder

jonesg111

ink

I wanted to add this so anyone reading this thread can also look at their posts for further reference.

Also a couple of other threads in the Canada forum regarding domicile:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=208699

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=212678

[trailmix 77]

Update as kemijo had his interview November 3rd in Montreal and successfully proved reestablishing domicile - his interview review is here:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...p;#entry3464094

Avery had her interview October 13th and was sent away to produce more evidence of reestablishing domicile. That thread can be found here:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=223016

Other Canadian VJ members that have been asked to produce more evidence of reestablishing domicile:

Shiri

Wowswift

kristinelder

jonesg111

ink

Also a couple of other threads in the Canada forum regarding domicile:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=208699

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=212678

[Malrothien 6]

Trail, should I be included in that list or is it specifically for interview requests?

[trailmix 77]

It's basically tracking people that have already had their interview and if they were successful/not successful in proving reestablishing domicile - i'm hoping to add you to the former list after your interview

[Malrothien 6]

thanks I hope so, too!

[Dan and Ali 3]

I love this thread. I always worry about having to prove domicile (my fiance has been living in Canada since January), so the more information on the subject, the better!

Keep the info coming! Thanks trailmix for keeping on top of this!

[trailmix 77]

Updating this thread with 4 more VJ members who have been sent away from the interview with a request for more proof of domicile (unfortunately). If you are attempting to prove domicile in the U.S. it may be helpful to read these threads as there are different types of domicile - completely separate from 'reestablishing' domicile. It is important to determine exactly which type you are attempting to prove.

jonesg111 Denied June 18th and again November 24th/2009, those threads are here and here (information from the 4th recent denial can be found in the second thread here, postings by nana1111).

Lenie7 denied in November 2009 - that thread is here

Brocku00 Denied in August 2009 - thread here

Simstar successfully proved reestablishing domicile at her interview in October - thread here

A VJ member who successfully proved reestablishing domicile at their interview - kemijo

kemijo's interview review

Avery had her interview October 13th and was sent away to produce more evidence of reestablishing domicile. That thread can be found here.

Other Canadian VJ members that have been asked to produce more evidence of reestablishing domicile:

Shiri

Wowswift

kristinelder

jonesg111

ink

Also a couple of other threads in the Canada forum regarding domicile:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=208699

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=212678

Edited November 29, 2009 by trailmix

[brocku00 1]

Ok, I think I'm almost ready to send in more proof of domicile, please let me know if you think this is enough or sufficient:

1. New lease from apartment in New Jersey

2. Employee contract - which states company, hire date, work location (New Jersey), his address, and terms of employment

3. Storage unit rental in New Jersey

4. New Jersey cell phone

5. Letter from 'Kindercare' daycare/preschool stating: as per our conversation.....your children 'x' and 'y' will be able to register at our school for this price. Please come in to register once you move to 'xxxx' New Jersey. It's a personal letter addressed to my husband and I and it has him NJ address on it.

6. Cover letter from myself stating what is included

7. A letter from my husband (AMCITS) stating that he resides in NJ, works in NJ, and would like his family to be able to move down to reunite

So, let me know what you think and if anyone has any tips on the two letters from myself or my husband, please feel free to add them. Do you think it's a good idea for my husband to add his own letter to this package?

Thanks for your help.

[trailmix 77]

I personally think it's a good idea to add his letter, in fact I think it is imperative. As mentioned yesterday, since Montreal is so....so - anyway, I think it is also important to include a cover letter of exactly what you are trying to prove and make that part of the cover letter unmistakable ie:

Enclosed please find proof of resident domicile for <Husband's name> U.S. citizen with regard to the I-864 for my wife and children, Montreal case numbers MTL2009xxxxxxx etc etc.

Then I would list their guidelines and what you have included that pertains to those guidelines, then list all the other stuff you are including.

So let's see how that matches up! (the lease of course is key!)

(1) Opening a bank account; (has he opened a new bank account?)

(2) Transferring funds to the United States; (transferred any money to the U.S. lately?)

(3) Making investments in the United States;

(4) Seeking employment in the United States; check!

(5) Registering children in U.S. schools; check!

(6) Applying for a social security number; and n/a

(7) Voting in local, state or federal elections. (has he registered to vote if he isn't already registered in New Jersey?)

Edited November 30, 2009 by trailmix