Proving domicile when not living in the U.S.

[BBCC 16]

We're nearing the end of our process (hopefully) with an interview on 6 Feb. Will she need to re-establish my US domicile at her interview or was that already taken care of with the I-864 processing?

I spend most of my time in Canada with my wife until she can enter the US but maintain a permanent residence in US, my tax home remains in the US and return there frequently. I maintain my US driver license, vehicle registrations and voter registration in the US. Would proof of all this be sufficient if asked for at the interview?

Edited January 27, 2012 by BBCC

[nquery 0]

I would strongly suggest having an address in the US, even if it's just a signed lease agreement for $50/mo with friends or family. This is the primary thing they need for domicile - an address Where are you going to get the green card sent to stateside without an address? And when they ask where are you moving where do you tell them without an address???

thank you for this info it is very helpful. Because the posts came to an abrupt end I didn't know if it was still a problem. (There could have been a few reasons why people stopped posting.) We have all the evidence for reestablishing domicile apart from an address in the US and we really don't want the expense of two homes if we can help it.

[gad33 47]

I would strongly suggest having an address in the US, even if it's just a signed lease agreement for $50/mo with friends or family.

That wouldn't be easy for us to do.

This is the primary thing they need for domicile - an address Where are you going to get the green card sent to stateside without an address? And when they ask where are you moving where do you tell them without an address???

An address isn't a problem we had to put one on the initial application but reading all the posts on here about how picky Montreal has been about domicile I was asking for people's recent experiences.

[nquery 0]

That wouldn't be easy for us to do.

An address isn't a problem we had to put one on the initial application but reading all the posts on here about how picky Montreal has been about domicile I was asking for people's recent experiences.

Fair enough - one obviously needs some sort of address for the application. I was just suggesting that you might want to try and provide some evidence that you are actually *moving* to that address. Thats what they are looking for - see the section under Domicile in the folllowing notes from the manual that the CO uses to process your I-864. http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86988.pdf.

Good luck.

[gad33 47]

Fair enough - one obviously needs some sort of address for the application. I was just suggesting that you might want to try and provide some evidence that you are actually *moving* to that address. Thats what they are looking for - see the section under Domicile in the folllowing notes from the manual that the CO uses to process your I-864. http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86988.pdf.

Good luck.

we have read the notes provided with the form and proving intent to reestablish domicile for NVC and the I-864 is not a problem, but from reading this thread it is clear that in the past Montreal has interpreted the domicile issue much more stringently than other consulates. You posted about your recent experience and I was hoping that others in similar situation would post their experiences.

[trailmix 77]

we have read the notes provided with the form and proving intent to reestablish domicile for NVC and the I-864 is not a problem, but from reading this thread it is clear that in the past Montreal has interpreted the domicile issue much more stringently than other consulates. You posted about your recent experience and I was hoping that others in similar situation would post their experiences.

From what I have read, things haven't changed much. Montreal is very stringent about the domicile/reestablishing domicile issue but the most important thing is that many people were trying to prove the wrong thing - you have probably already realized that by reading this thread.

What they will want you to prove is that you are moving back - however you prove that can be different for everyone.

Things like servering ties in Canada will - a letter from an employer stating the employee has quit their job or will upon approval of the visa. A letter from a landlord or documents proving you have put your house on the market. Since you are unable to come up with an accomodation letter for the U.S. - where exactly do you plan to stay? Hotel? Relative? Short term rental while you house shop? Have some proof of that available.

If you provide enough evidence with the I-864 and if the interviewer has gotten around to reading it beforehand - then they may not ask for anything else.

[housewife 1]

From what I have read, things haven't changed much. Montreal is very stringent about the domicile/reestablishing domicile issue but the most important thing is that many people were trying to prove the wrong thing - you have probably already realized that by reading this thread.

What they will want you to prove is that you are moving back - however you prove that can be different for everyone.

Things like servering ties in Canada will - a letter from an employer stating the employee has quit their job or will upon approval of the visa. A letter from a landlord or documents proving you have put your house on the market. Since you are unable to come up with an accomodation letter for the U.S. - where exactly do you plan to stay? Hotel? Relative? Short term rental while you house shop? Have some proof of that available.

If you provide enough evidence with the I-864 and if the interviewer has gotten around to reading it beforehand - then they may not ask for anything else.

So many people helped me here, that I think should try to give back.

Trailmix is asking a good question? If you can't get an address proof where will you stay. Your SS card and Green card will be mailed to this address.

I personally signed a lease 3 months before the interview. It had my husband and my name on it, and I opened a US bank account, had to have renter's insurance on the rental, had to have utility open and did all of that. That was enough.

I think you need to be sure to have your "ducks lined up" and as much proof as possible. Someone here gave good advice way back then, and they said, go with as much as you can, if you need all of it, you will have it, if you don't, what harm was it to bring more? (or something like that).

I had so much paper, proving so much but in the end it went very smoothly. Bring copies, bring translations certified by a certified translator. If your documents are in french (Quebec) it needs to be translated by a certified translator, with all the stamps, bells and whistles as I call it. Every paper, page etc. I had more than I needed as I had my husband's birth certificate and his baptism translated to be on the safe side.

Good luck everyone.

Hope everyone who helped me is doing good. Hi trailmix

[nquery 0]

we have read the notes provided with the form and proving intent to reestablish domicile for NVC and the I-864 is not a problem, but from reading this thread it is clear that in the past Montreal has interpreted the domicile issue much more stringently than other consulates. You posted about your recent experience and I was hoping that others in similar situation would post their experiences.

Sorry, but your posts are confusing - "We have all the evidence for reestablishing domicile apart from an address in the US ... ". So you had an address on the application and you say that you have all the evidence required but then say 'apart from an address' and that it would be impossible to get a lease or agreement or something at an address. As others who followed up also ask, where you do plan to stay once immigrating? Is the address you have just a PO Box or hotel or something similar? Again, it would be very helpful for your interview if you could get proof that you have a real residence lined up to lay your head down each night once in the US ...

As per the procedural notes that the consular officers use when adjudicating re-establishing domicile, you will likely need to show proof that you have established an address at which you can reside ... see a.(4) "a house, an apartment, or arrangements for accommodations with family or friend". Things like jobs and money movement and such are important as proof that you will actually move to said address that has been established - see part b below -, but are somewhat moot without first having the residence set up. Hope this helps.

9 FAM 40.41 N6.1-2 Establishing U.S. Domicile

a. A petitioner living abroad not meeting the criteria in 9 FAM 40.41 N6.1-1 who wishes to qualify as a sponsor must satisfy you:

(1) That he or she has taken steps to establish a domicile in the United States;

(2) That he or she has either already taken up physical residence in the United States or will do so concurrently with the applicant;

(3) The sponsor does not have to precede the applicant to the United States but, if he or she does not do so, he or she must at least arrive in the United States concurrently with the applicant;

(4) The sponsor must establish an address (a house, an apartment, or arrangements for accommodations with family or friend) and either must have already taken up physical residence in the United States; or

(5) Must at a minimum to satisfy you that he or she intends to take up residence there no later than the time of the applicant’s immigration to the United States.

b. Although there is no time frame for the resident to establish residence, you must be satisfied that the sponsor has, in fact, taken up principal residence in the United States. Evidence that the sponsor has established a domicile in the United States and is either physically residing there or intends to do so before or concurrently with the applicant may include the following:

(1) Opening a bank account;

(2) Transferring funds to the United States;

(3) Making investments in the United States;

(4) Seeking employment in the United States;

(5) Registering children in U.S. schools;

(6) Applying for a Social Security number; and

(7) Voting in local, State, or Federal elections.

c. If a petitioner cannot satisfy the domicile requirement, the petitioner fails to qualify as a ―sponsor‖ for the purposes of submitting Form I-864, and a joint sponsor cannot be accepted and the applicant must be refused pursuant to INA 212(a)(4).

Edited February 6, 2012 by nquery

[gad33 47]

Thanks for the input from everybody. After my last post I went back and read the whole thread and read all the points about domicile and reestablishing domicile which were very helpful.

Sorry for the confusion about the address. The address used on the I-130 was a relative's address the other side of the country from where my husband will be working. This was good enough for the first stage and for receiving mail but would make no sense to say that we will be living there.

Our original intention was for hubby to find us somewhere to live after I have the visa so when I cross the border I would have a an address where I live for mailing the green card; but as this is most likely not going to work, he'll sort something out on his next business trip.

He has the bank accounts, investments, job, so we're covered on that part.

[jazzly 3]

My wife is a US citizen living with me in Ontario for last 5 years. I had my interview recently under CR1 and its temporary refused.

Since my wife was not living in the US (she was partially though as she visits the family every month down in Michigan), she didn't file the tax return on time (which NVC raised question on and then she did for last 4 years that were missing). I am asked to get the main I864 submitted by the joint sponsor who originally submitted the I864A. That I will take care of, as its a straight forward thing. The other issue is to prove the domicile of my wife in US to show our intent to move once I receive VISA.

The Montreal CO said, there could be many things that one can do. eg. I can accept a job and an appointment letter would be enough. Or my wife moves to US and get her Driver's license and auto insurance, get our daughter registered in school (who is not 4 yr old), rent of buy a house/appt, get her vote register and etc etc. The CO recommended to check the travel.state.gov and USCIS website and search for domicile. They said a lot of people maintain bank account on both sides of the border and its very easy to do, so they rejected the bank statements and credit card bills etc. My wife does maintain her account there regularly and pays her bills for two of her US credit cards that she frequently uses.

After reading this thread I have got very good information. So I am going to do the following.

We are going to US consulate to have 'consular report of child birth abroad to a US citizen' first thing this week. (I know we should have, but we didn't know that we have to until few months back).

She then will move to US.

She gives up her Ontario License and gets Michigan's.

She obtains the auto insurance in MI.

She gets our daughter registered in pre-school near her parent's house.

She gets a letter from her parents that they have a room for my wife and that I will also be accommodated in their residence once I move in.

Wire money through my Canadian bank to her US bank account. So she can do initial setup and expenses.

Originally, we were planning to move in May/June since we need some time to sell our house and myself need to apply for job seriously. So she wanted to accompany me. But now looks like she has to go now and do all of the above. We don't mind doing that as she will have some time to get things done and do job search etc. But my main concern is regarding giving up Ontario license just yet.

There are couple of reasons for that. We have insurance in Ontario and I will take my car with me and will get it registered in April/May. Until then if my wife comes to visit me over the weekend she won't be able to drive on her Michigan auto insurance. Is it possible for her to get a Michigan State ID for now and keep her Canadian license for another month or so. Can she obtain MI ID and will that be acceptable as proof of domicile in MTL?

Second question is not related to the refusal, but the timing of my landing. I want to enter US at POE a month prior to I actually completely move. Reason is that I want to apply for Green Card and SSN, so I can start replying to recruiters that are asking me for my plans of relocation. Also it will give me some flexibility to sell my house and not to sell it in rush. Can I do that? Can I enter US and then leave in few weeks just to come back in a month or so after selling my house and secure a job in US?

[housewife 1]

I'm sorry I'm a little confused by your questions and statments especially about her driving the car and the insurance.

My suggestion is to call your insurance company for your car in canada and ask if your wife who is moving back to the US temporarily, and will then have a US driver's licence if she will be able to drive your car when she comes back to visit you. I think you need to check with insurance before worrying about this. I am really confused on what you are saying about cars.

You say they rejected bank and credit card statements but then you say she has accounts in the US so I am confused.

It is important that you produce tax returns that were filed. American citizens are required to file tax returns to the US regardless of where they live.

This is what I think are the top 3-4 things necessary.

Proving domicile.

Tax returns filed

income/financial requirements - bank accounts/job

required documents - originals or notarized copies all in english

I'm also confused as to your question about moving? What landing?? Your landing in Canada? Americans are not "landed". We don't use that term so I'm again confused. Your question is very confusing as to green card and SSI

When you get approved in Canada, either conditional or without conditions, you have applied for your green card. You get a temp stamp in your passport, you have 6 months to move across the border. Once you cross, at the POE they take the packet that you will get, and that is how you get your SSI and green card.

Your green card is mailed to you and so is your SSI or you wait 3 weeks and if didn't arrive you go to SSI to check on it. It is mailed to you at the address you provide on your application.

I am the US Citizen and I did this for my husband to move to the USA last year. I don't understand the entering one month earlier to apply?? Apply where? You are applying in Canada for your green card right??

good luck

[jazzly 3]

I mean, to prove her domicile we are told to have a driver's license in US. Is getting insurance will also required or nice to have or is not neccessary.

You have an excellent point. If my Canadian auto insurance can cover my wife with MI drivers license, it solves my problem. If not, then I will have to get her MI insurance.

As an alternate, in lieu of driver's license, can she get a State ID while keeping her Canadian drivers license for couple more months?

What about other steps I mentioned to prove her domicile? Are they enough or lacking something? Should my wife also accept a job in US to show her intent. Do I need to put my house in Canada on sale or atleast get it evaluated by a realtor?

What I meant by landing is, entering the US on CR or IR visa. I am a Canadian citizen living in Canada. In Canada, we have term 'landing' to the date when you enter in Canada on an immigrant visa. Your PR/Green card status starts on that day and when you apply for Citizenship and sponsor someone and for other stuff, this date is very important and historical.

So I want to enter in USA on CR/IR visa and Apply for GC/SSI (if the process is already done at POE, its great; in Canada we have to go to govt. offices to apply for our PR/SIN serprately). So once I enter in US, I want to get back to Canada for a month or two, to complete transaction of my house sale, transfer money to US, apply and accept job in US and move my belongings to US with a moving company. I need to buy some time to complete all these tasks before moving, but I also want my GC and SSN to be issued, because some employers that have approached me have said that I have to have SSN so they can issue an official job appointment letter.

I hope, I have cleared your confusion.

[housewife 1]

Hi you have cleared up some.

Ok, first, call your insurance company. You can't buy car insurance in the USA without a car. Just because she has a MI license and no car what are you insuring?? The car is what is insured. Call your canadian insurance company and work from that.

Proving domicle. Well my husband was the canaidan and I lived in canada as a landed immigrant. Accepting a job and working at that job is one way, but you need an address. A lease. I signed a lease on an apartment. I don't know what they will accept as there are many forms. Registering your child in school, but I know you need an address. US bank accounts.

One of the most important setp is finaical proof. You must have either XXXX amount in cash and assets or your wife (the american citizen) must have a job and show proof of XXX income.

I can't tell you what that is as it changes according to poverty levels yearly and the # of people in your family. Otherwise you need a joint sponsor.

You won't get your SSI number till you move across the border or your green card.

Yes, putting house on the market is good too.

I will write more later

check out the websites as to what is reqired in the mean time.

[jazzly 3]

My father in law is the joint sponsor and has more than enough income according to the poverty line description chart.

We will be living with my in-laws who have big house and a dedicated and furnished room for us already (when I visit them, we stay in our room). Getting a letter saying they will let us live with them as long as we want, is not a problem. So we have address, and its on application from day 1.

They have 4 cars, so my wife can be insured on any of those cars.

I have a full time job in Canada, but my wife does not work right now. Once she moves to US later this month, she will apply for the job, if its necessary and help our domicile case.

Another reason we are moving (beside that we really want to move to US for good)is because of my mother in law's health. My wife goes to MI every month, she makes all of her mother's appointments (MOA is not so fluent with English). So once we move close to them, she can better take care of her. CO mentioned that when reply to them I can mention or provide something to reflect that and it will also help showing our intent.

[jazzly 3]

I showed my assets and house papers, but CO was not interested. She was concerned about my wife's domicile and her intent, more than mine.

I think transferring good amount of money via wire should strengthen our intent.

So do you see any issue entering in US and then leaving for a month to wrap things up in Canada?