Relationships not for love, but for an easy Green Card

[Amby 490]

I really thought I replied to this thread

[Der Bücherwurm 1]

Seriously, it's gotta be love. I don't think any man would put up with my noxious, post-apocalyptic level of flatulence just to get a lousy greencard.

Poverty breeds desparation, but once you get past the smell you got it licked.

Don't make me gas you too.

Unless you can send it via ethernet patch cord, I'm not scared at all. If you can accomplish that we'll call you Houdini.

Hmmm. I have a better idea. I've been meaning to learn the black art of voodoo. So how about you mail me a lock of your hair. I will attach it to my voodoo doll and then fart on it after my meal of beans 'n rice and soda. After which, I'm sure you'll come up with quite a few words more 'colorful' than Houdini to call me.

[Senakareb 0]

Ahh hum The wind of change it bloweth a new direction :-)

Cheers

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The results should put to rest the pointless suspicions about the validity of some relationships. Corruption exists everywhere...and there should be measures taken to discourage it, but just because the chance for a scam marriage exists, doesn't mean that immigrant marriages should be regarded with suspicion. Stereotypes will always be around, but there should be little tolerance when negative stereotypes are openly expressed without the blink of an eye, especially on in immigration website like this.

[Peikko 1,575]

Today is Sunday - I have to work tomorrow.

[Uncle Wally 2]

The results should put to rest the pointless suspicions about the validity of some relationships. Corruption exists everywhere...and there should be measures taken to discourage it, but just because the chance for a scam marriage exists, doesn't mean that immigrant marriages should be regarded with suspicion. Stereotypes will always be around, but there should be little tolerance when negative stereotypes are openly expressed without the blink of an eye, especially on in immigration website like this.

Why should there be "little tolerance" for bringing up a subject that holds an element of truth and is, as one poster put it, "the elephant in the room"? Fraudulent marriages, including those in which only one party is privy to the fraudulent intent are very real, and I can think of no better forum for discussing them than, in your words "a website like this". Do you find it to be a hush-hush, taboo subject that we'd all be better to ignore, hoping it goes away while we bury our heads in the sand? An 'I don't want to talk about it, I might jinx myself' phenomenon?

The fact of the matter is that while most of us may be involved in marriages and proposed marriages that are based upon love, some of us are using others or being used ourselves as a means to an end: mere vehicles to the holy Green Card. If we want to break it down further, I think we can find logical safety in assuming that the greater the disparity between the standard of living in the beneficiary's country and that of the United States, the greater the likelihood of fraud. Likewise, those who hail from lands where the standard of living is comparable or better to that of the United States have a lesser incentive to enter into a fraudulent marriage with an American for the purpose of immigration.

As for "stereotypes", let's not forget from where they arise: basic truths. They are often greatly exaggerated and abused, and the effects can be unfortunate. But if I may be afforded the liberty to 'stereotype' stereotypes here, I'd have to say that all of them are based upon some element of truth. I don't think someone just woke up one morning and thought

"I wonder what kind of nasty rumors I can start about those Irish and those Americans...I know! I'll say that the Irish drink a lot, and that the Americans are loud and pushy!"

Rather, those stereotypes exist because the Irish generally drink a lot (though not all of them do), and Americans are generally loud and pushy (though not all of them are). More relevant, the young woman from an impoverished country who marries an American man 30 years her senior is stuck with, in many circles, at least the suspicion of personifying the 'easy Green Card' stereotype. Again unfortunate, especially if that isn't the case- but this stereotype comes to a lot of people' minds because still many others live up to it.

[Benika 1]

The results should put to rest the pointless suspicions about the validity of some relationships. Corruption exists everywhere...and there should be measures taken to discourage it, but just because the chance for a scam marriage exists, doesn't mean that immigrant marriages should be regarded with suspicion. Stereotypes will always be around, but there should be little tolerance when negative stereotypes are openly expressed without the blink of an eye, especially on in immigration website like this.

Why should there be "little tolerance" for bringing up a subject that holds an element of truth and is, as one poster put it, "the elephant in the room"? Fraudulent marriages, including those in which only one party is privy to the fraudulent intent are very real, and I can think of no better forum for discussing them than, in your words "a website like this". Do you find it to be a hush-hush, taboo subject that we'd all be better to ignore, hoping it goes away while we bury our heads in the sand? An 'I don't want to talk about it, I might jinx myself' phenomenon?

The fact of the matter is that while most of us may be involved in marriages and proposed marriages that are based upon love, some of us are using others or being used ourselves as a means to an end: mere vehicles to the holy Green Card. If we want to break it down further, I think we can find logical safety in assuming that the greater the disparity between the standard of living in the beneficiary's country and that of the United States, the greater the likelihood of fraud. Likewise, those who hail from lands where the standard of living is comparable or better to that of the United States have a lesser incentive to enter into a fraudulent marriage with an American for the purpose of immigration.

As for "stereotypes", let's not forget from where they arise: basic truths. They are often greatly exaggerated and abused, and the effects can be unfortunate. But if I may be afforded the liberty to 'stereotype' stereotypes here, I'd have to say that all of them are based upon some element of truth. I don't think someone just woke up one morning and thought

"I wonder what kind of nasty rumors I can start about those Irish and those Americans...I know! I'll say that the Irish drink a lot, and that the Americans are loud and pushy!"

Rather, those stereotypes exist because the Irish generally drink a lot (though not all of them do), and Americans are generally loud and pushy (though not all of them are). More relevant, the young woman from an impoverished country who marries an American man 30 years her senior is stuck with, in many circles, at least the suspicion of personifying the 'easy Green Card' stereotype. Again unfortunate, especially if that isn't the case- but this stereotype comes to a lot of people' minds because still many others live up to it.

I have to agree here. Anyone that reads this site regularly has seen teary post of people who thought they were marrying for love untill the partner had a green card in hand and then suddenly all pretence of a relationship disapeared. So even on this level this poll did not just happen due to blind prejeduce.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The results should put to rest the pointless suspicions about the validity of some relationships. Corruption exists everywhere...and there should be measures taken to discourage it, but just because the chance for a scam marriage exists, doesn't mean that immigrant marriages should be regarded with suspicion. Stereotypes will always be around, but there should be little tolerance when negative stereotypes are openly expressed without the blink of an eye, especially on in immigration website like this.

Why should there be "little tolerance" for bringing up a subject that holds an element of truth and is, as one poster put it, "the elephant in the room"? Fraudulent marriages, including those in which only one party is privy to the fraudulent intent are very real, and I can think of no better forum for discussing them than, in your words "a website like this". Do you find it to be a hush-hush, taboo subject that we'd all be better to ignore, hoping it goes away while we bury our heads in the sand? An 'I don't want to talk about it, I might jinx myself' phenomenon?

Because you are talking in broad generalizations. It's no different then making any other broad generalization about a group of people. There is nothing inherently wrong with international marriages but making the generalization that some are 'only in it for the Green Card' is fostering a growing negative sentiment among Americans towards such marriages which can and does have a negative effect on immigration policies that effect most couples here. A beneficiary in a K Visa who is marrying 'for the Green Card' is committing fraud...period. Those marriages are not approved for the most part and the ones that do get approved eventually are found out. There may be beneficiaries who are successful in deceiving both their spouse and the USCIS, but it's not a serious problem. Do you have a specific case or cases that you are concerned about or is it just your 'suspicion' about some international marriages?

Edited December 1, 2008 by Mister Fancypants

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Of the 60foreign national respondents to this poll, 9 of them are in it for a green card. That's 15%!!

I do not envy USCIS.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Who is this 15 yr. old marrying an 82 yr. old? The OP is very Boo-Yah'esque.

[Uncle Wally 2]

The results should put to rest the pointless suspicions about the validity of some relationships. Corruption exists everywhere...and there should be measures taken to discourage it, but just because the chance for a scam marriage exists, doesn't mean that immigrant marriages should be regarded with suspicion. Stereotypes will always be around, but there should be little tolerance when negative stereotypes are openly expressed without the blink of an eye, especially on in immigration website like this.

Why should there be "little tolerance" for bringing up a subject that holds an element of truth and is, as one poster put it, "the elephant in the room"? Fraudulent marriages, including those in which only one party is privy to the fraudulent intent are very real, and I can think of no better forum for discussing them than, in your words "a website like this". Do you find it to be a hush-hush, taboo subject that we'd all be better to ignore, hoping it goes away while we bury our heads in the sand? An 'I don't want to talk about it, I might jinx myself' phenomenon?

Because you are talking in broad generalizations. It's no different then making any other broad generalization about a group of people. There is nothing inherently wrong with international marriages but making the generalization that some are 'only in it for the Green Card' is fostering a growing negative sentiment among Americans towards such marriages which can and does have a negative effect on immigration policies that effect most couples here. A beneficiary in a K Visa who is marrying 'for the Green Card' is committing fraud...period. Those marriages are not approved for the most part and the ones that do get approved eventually are found out. There may be beneficiaries who are successful in deceiving both their spouse and the USCIS, but it's not a serious problem. Do you have a specific case or cases that you are concerned about or is it just your 'suspicion' about some international marriages?

Strike a nerve, did we?

You're absolutely correct in asserting that "there is nothing inherently wrong with international marriages", but my statement that some are only in it for a Green Card wasn't a "broad generalization" as you put it, it was a fact, Jack.

Look at the poll as it stands now:

"In it for love": Americans and foreign nationals tied, 51-51.

Relationships wherein fraud is certain or suspected/acknowledged: Americans and foreign nationals tied, 9-9.

That's one out of six for fraud, about 15%. I'm no statistician, and I'm generally a bit leery of Internet polls, but the results being absolutely mirrored at over 100 responses says something, does it not?

The blame for this "growing negative sentiment among Americans towards such marriages" you speak of shouldn't be shouldered those who bring it up in conversation, but by the fraudsters in unilateral marriages who by their actions create such sentiment. I don't appreciate the fact that I have to wait a year to get my wife into the country, but I'm not going to sit quiet at some of the reasons why that is. Part of it is certainly inexcusable bureaucratic incompetency, but part of it is also the fact that some folks are simply trying to cheat the system.

As for fraudulent unilateral marriages, do I know of "a specific case or cases"? Sure, I know of several personally- some of them here in the US, and a few of them from when I lived in Japan, which is like the US, sometimes the destination of those from less 'socioeconomically fortunate' countries who enter unilateral fraudulent marriages. I've also read various threads here on this (VJ) forum, started by posters asking for advice because their foreign spouse ditched them the moment he or she was firmly in the US. And there's also this poll.

By the way, how do you know that it (fraudulent unilateral marriage) is "not a serious problem"? You say that among fraudulent international marriages in this country, "the ones that do get approved eventually are found out"- but it's usually too late at that point, isn't it? After we've all filed our affidavits for support and whatnot, should we be left high and dry, the fraudster Green Card-seeking spouses are the ones who have the last laugh, are they not?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Because you are talking in broad generalizations. It's no different then making any other broad generalization about a group of people. There is nothing inherently wrong with international marriages but making the generalization that some are 'only in it for the Green Card' is fostering a growing negative sentiment among Americans towards such marriages which can and does have a negative effect on immigration policies that effect most couples here. A beneficiary in a K Visa who is marrying 'for the Green Card' is committing fraud...period. Those marriages are not approved for the most part and the ones that do get approved eventually are found out. There may be beneficiaries who are successful in deceiving both their spouse and the USCIS, but it's not a serious problem. Do you have a specific case or cases that you are concerned about or is it just your 'suspicion' about some international marriages?

Strike a nerve, did we?

You're absolutely correct in asserting that "there is nothing inherently wrong with international marriages", but my statement that some are only in it for a Green Card wasn't a "broad generalization" as you put it, it was a fact, Jack.

Look at the poll as it stands now:

"In it for love": Americans and foreign nationals tied, 51-51.

Relationships wherein fraud is certain or suspected/acknowledged: Americans and foreign nationals tied, 9-9.

That's one out of six for fraud, about 15%. I'm no statistician, and I'm generally a bit leery of Internet polls, but the results being absolutely mirrored at over 100 responses says something, does it not?

The blame for this "growing negative sentiment among Americans towards such marriages" you speak of shouldn't be shouldered those who bring it up in conversation, but by the fraudsters in unilateral marriages who by their actions create such sentiment. I don't appreciate the fact that I have to wait a year to get my wife into the country, but I'm not going to sit quiet at some of the reasons why that is. Part of it is certainly inexcusable bureaucratic incompetency, but part of it is also the fact that some folks are simply trying to cheat the system.

As for fraudulent unilateral marriages, do I know of "a specific case or cases"? Sure, I know of several personally- some of them here in the US, and a few of them from when I lived in Japan, which is like the US, sometimes the destination of those from less 'socioeconomically fortunate' countries who enter unilateral fraudulent marriages. I've also read various threads here on this (VJ) forum, started by posters asking for advice because their foreign spouse ditched them the moment he or she was firmly in the US. And there's also this poll.

By the way, how do you know that it (fraudulent unilateral marriage) is "not a serious problem"? You say that among fraudulent international marriages in this country, "the ones that do get approved eventually are found out"- but it's usually too late at that point, isn't it? After we've all filed our affidavits for support and whatnot, should we be left high and dry, the fraudster Green Card-seeking spouses are the ones who have the last laugh, are they not?

Well by all means, stop what you are doing right now and write to your Senators and Congressman. Tell them of this great concern of yours and give them some ideas of how you'd like the USCIS to change K Visas to eliminate marriage fraud because it concerns you so much. Go on....don't wait another minute. And be careful which couples here on VJ you discuss this with....they might be 'frauds' in disguise.

(BTW - calling the USCIS officials 'slobs' says a lot about your mindset.)

[Uncle Wally 2]

Way to dodge points and questions.

Go get 'em, tiger!

Edited December 1, 2008 by Uncle_Wally

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Way to dodge points and questions.

Go get 'em, tiger!

You're wasting time, man. Write those letters...stage a press conference, organize a march. Don't stop until you've erradicated all fraudulent marriages. Only then will you get those 'slobs' at the USCIS to finally do their jobs.

[giraffemd 0]

I was just so sick of the free healthcare....I had to get outta there somehow.