Discussing money

[Brad and Vika 129]

The one thing clear is that the poor can be very stubborn. People who should have moved yesterday prefer to live in dilapidated areas and blame the system. People who refuse to move with the times and prefer to live like it's 1950. If the millions living in poverty actually worked together they would achieve wonders. They need to learn from the Vietnamese community who are great at working together rather than blaming the system or focusing on their circumstances. Once again learning from others is the key. Get together and clean up your street. Help each other painting and repairing their property. Work with police to get the crooks of their streets. The right attitude along with sharing knowledge and working together is the key.

There are some cultural issues here that should be considered. It isn't just stubborness or stupidity. Many cultures around the world value consensus and respect for group discussion/acceptance of ideas much more than American culture does. We tend to regard independence and individual achievement most highly. In addition there is a cultural resistance in many communities here to any sort of "help" or "guidance" from the community or government. These beliefs and cultural biases run strong and deep here. I agree that not accepting knowledge or help doesn't slow the laying of blame much.

How and whether to discuss money is definitely cultural. I'm only a few generations removed from a time when my ancestors measured wealth by how many animals, wives, children you had, how much fabric you wore, how tan from the sun you were and how much you gave to others. Your economic status and the power it gave you was well known throughout the community, so talking about it wasn't an issue. I have no qualms about money, but when you are among people who think that is crass due to their cultural upbringing, it's all too easy to be perceived as bragging.

In this society, there is no excuse for not taking advantage of wealth building opportunities. The voice in your head that says you can't do it is lying to you, and if your experience causes you to dislike others who have made it, that's your loss, not theirs because you can learn how to manage your career, money and influence better than you think.

The first thing is, you must open your mind to the idea that it can happen for you, set a goal, then seek out resources to guide you to your goal. It may be that you have to spend less time b!tching and whining on Expats or VJ, and divert your time instead to reading a few books on the subject, attending classes, learning to budget, save, and invest while resisting the latest electronic marvel or shiny, new car, but it can be done.

If you think you can't do it, you're right, you can't, but why think that if the opposite is also true? What divides the haves from the have nots in the US is that those who want more are poised to identify and take on opportunities when they find them because they have educated themselves and aren't making excuses. It's not luck that makes good things happen, it's positive ambition coupled with preparation, and those are free to anyone here.

I am not really clear on the meaning of some of the above, but it seems directed to me. Generally I believe that there are few excuses for anything, just reasons or explanations (good ones or bad ones). Since you mentioned wealth building opportunities, I will say that I work in the finance industry, so I feel pretty qualified to render an opinion on why most people do not radically improve their situation by "reading a few books on the subject". By the way, I include wealthy trust fund recipients in that group. My training and a fair amount of empirical evidence suggest that there is a tremendous disinclination across all classes in America to take advice or "help" from any one else unless you paid for it. I spent years early in my career trying to convince people that asset allocation, risk tolerance, and time horizon were important to securing the best returns even if you punch a clock for a living. Most people in my experience simply will not take advice - they believe that the most basic principles of investing are not important to THEM, or that they have a better idea.

The reality I have seen is the opposite of what you are describing above. Since many Americans believe that investing generally is some sort of ponzi scheme or just doesn't matter, it is not reasonable to imagine that if they just stop complaining and take charge of the situation all will be well for them. That sunshine and unicorns self-help stuff is what I typically hear from people who are covered by trust funds and never had to push that boulder up that hill.

And don't get me started on why people from other cultures don't budget, save, and invest like we do. If you came from a society where currency was devalued, and there was no regulation of the finance industry (so no FDIC, FSLIC, etc.) there is no way you would fail to spend every dime you earn. As I said above - these things appear to me to be cultural in nature, just like the Japanese propensity to save is cultural.

[SaadBell 0]

Teach me girl, I have absolutely no head for financial stuff, and at one time I was a senior at the University trying to be an accountant, OMG, I was so out of my comfort zone. People who deal with money, how to make investments, to me are the smartest folks bar none. I know how to spend it, I am really good at that, thank god my husband has good with money. I just would love to have someone give me like hard cash, $1000 in $20 a couple a times a week. I would be golden.

[Y's_habibitk 2]

Teach me girl, I have absolutely no head for financial stuff, and at one time I was a senior at the University trying to be an accountant, OMG, I was so out of my comfort zone. People who deal with money, how to make investments, to me are the smartest folks bar none. I know how to spend it, I am really good at that, thank god my husband has good with money. I just would love to have someone give me like hard cash, $1000 in $20 a couple a times a week. I would be golden.

If we had trust fund money to play with.... I have, what I think are solid business ideas.. lol

[PlatyPius 5]

The one thing some people neglect to see is "It takes money to make money".

I'm sorry...I don't care how WILLING you are to make smart investments, follow through on an idea, or whatever...if you don't HAVE any money, you aren't going to build #######. You aren't going to invest #######.

You can bet your ####### that if I had a trust fund, or even a small inheritance, that I would then invest it in some way or another. However, I haven't seen many opportunities for investing 73 cents and some pocket lint.

Just saying.

[Ban Hammer 13,575]

The one thing some people neglect to see is "It takes money to make money".

I'm sorry...I don't care how WILLING you are to make smart investments, follow through on an idea, or whatever...if you don't HAVE any money, you aren't going to build #######. You aren't going to invest #######.

You can bet your ####### that if I had a trust fund, or even a small inheritance, that I would then invest it in some way or another. However, I haven't seen many opportunities for investing 73 cents and some pocket lint.

Just saying.

i'll pay $2 for that pocket lint, an investment in case you become famous.

[sereia 0]

I don't think its classy to discuss money with people other than those who are close to you. Posting here on VJ discussing how big your trust fund is is quite tacky imo and is really just bragging even if you think you aren't.

I'm sure it is very cultural to some extent (and we have a wide variety here on VJ) but of the upper class and upper middle class people I've known over my lifetime of various ethnic backgrounds we've never gone around throwing out how much our houses cost, what our salaries were, and what investments and trust funds we hold.

Oh well. Carry on and brag away.

[morocco4ever 63]

if you don't HAVE any money, you aren't going to build #######. You aren't going to invest #######.

Come on Platy, who needs a roof over your head and food on the table when you could be putting it to good use investing?

[PlatyPius 5]

if you don't HAVE any money, you aren't going to build #######. You aren't going to invest #######.

Come on Platy, who needs a roof over your head and food on the table when you could be putting it to good use investing?

You're right. I'm so STUPID!

[Chica Yeyé 41]

if you don't HAVE any money, you aren't going to build #######. You aren't going to invest #######.

Come on Platy, who needs a roof over your head and food on the table when you could be putting it to good use investing?

You're right. I'm so STUPID!

Dude... that is sooooooooooooooooo like obvious....

[morocco4ever 63]

if you don't HAVE any money, you aren't going to build #######. You aren't going to invest #######.

Come on Platy, who needs a roof over your head and food on the table when you could be putting it to good use investing?

You're right. I'm so STUPID!

I'm glad that you have finally come to terms with it. *insert tongue smiley*

[Brad and Vika 129]

if you don't HAVE any money, you aren't going to build #######. You aren't going to invest #######.

Come on Platy, who needs a roof over your head and food on the table when you could be putting it to good use investing?

That is exactly the conventional wisdom I was talking about. People say all the time "I wish I could contribute to a 401(k), can't you see we need that money NOW? And you want me to put money into an account and not touch it until I am 59 1/2? What a scam! - You are not helping me, you don't understand how things are". Thanks for making my point Platy and morocco4ever. As long as a person believes that there is a better use for their money than what the advisor tells them, no amount of reading up or self motivating will help. And Platy is spot on.... some folks just don't have it to spend. Not a lack of desire or discipline, but lack of funds to get started. Chicken or egg, I guess.

[Chica Yeyé 41]

if you don't HAVE any money, you aren't going to build #######. You aren't going to invest #######.

Come on Platy, who needs a roof over your head and food on the table when you could be putting it to good use investing?

You're right. I'm so STUPID!

I'm glad that you have finally come to terms with it. *insert tongue smiley*

how come you don't have smileys hermana???

[morocco4ever 63]

Sometimes I have them here, and sometimes they disappear. *Insert sad smiley*

[SaadBell 0]

I don't think its classy to discuss money with people other than those who are close to you. Posting here on VJ discussing how big your trust fund is is quite tacky imo and is really just bragging even if you think you aren't.

I'm sure it is very cultural to some extent (and we have a wide variety here on VJ) but of the upper class and upper middle class people I've known over my lifetime of various ethnic backgrounds we've never gone around throwing out how much our houses cost, what our salaries were, and what investments and trust funds we hold.

Oh well. Carry on and brag away.

Spot on, I have never had any money, so not sure what it would feel like, but I am willing to give it a shot. Most likely I would keep it on the low down, don't want people asking for favors, all of a sudden I will find long lost friends and relatives. Not cool

[Ban Hammer 13,575]

if you don't HAVE any money, you aren't going to build #######. You aren't going to invest #######.

Come on Platy, who needs a roof over your head and food on the table when you could be putting it to good use investing?

You're right. I'm so STUPID!

Dude... that is sooooooooooooooooo like obvious....

not so, he married mags.