Discussing money

[eros_EX_Plumber 0]

Well, you should have a pretty good idea of what is a reasonable salary for the type of work you do. Finding out how much your coworkers earn and then whining about it to your boss or HR isn't the thing to do.

The idea is that when you're offered a job, you and the employer work out a mutually acceptable compensation scheme. Perhaps so-and-so who earns more than you is simply a better negotiator.

If you're going to use the knowledge that a colleague earns more than you as the foundation of a raise-seeking discussion w/ your boss, you may as well just pull down your pants and take a $#it on the office floor while whistling Dixie.

I found even in the UK discussing your pay is not an issue. I guess for many Britts and Aussies a job is just income. We discuss salaries to better each other and are not too concerned with the company's interest. Over there you go to work, get paid and then go home. The weekend or our next vacation overseas is on our mind. Whereas here some people are seriously married to their career and job title. And for what peanuts, plus two weeks vacation.

I have never heard anyone whine about pay. If you know you are getting short-changed you change jobs. The key is you have to know you are being short changed. I screwed over an employer before when I found out that a person I recommended, who was hired, ended up earning more than me. I just changed jobs and gave them the minimum amount of notice during the busiest time. F##k Em.. When the manager asked me why I did this I told him he should have thought about that before short-changing me. Didn't whine for a second.

And you make an assumption that they really cared...why you left!

Unless ..you own the company...

we are just a number on the spreadsheet...no more..no less...

[Vi Mazzella 4]

salray.com is a good place to start but if you have a more specialized or hybrid job its not as cut and dry. Also, pretty much knowing "what you're worth". I would think everyone can safely say they know when they are being underpaid.

I want everyone to earn the same too, if they have the same skills and experience. Alot of it comes down to negotiating. Most companies will have a scale to work with, and dont vary much from it.

Okay I have another question.

Regardless of career, what would you guys think is a decent salary? and at what salary would you say wow that is a good salary?

In NYC, $100k+ is "decent", $150-200k is good, $250k+ is better.

I agree with you, this is a pretty expensive city, you can make a very good salary but the city "eats" your salary

[mawilson 2,133]

salray.com is a good place to start but if you have a more specialized or hybrid job its not as cut and dry. Also, pretty much knowing "what you're worth". I would think everyone can safely say they know when they are being underpaid.

I want everyone to earn the same too, if they have the same skills and experience. Alot of it comes down to negotiating. Most companies will have a scale to work with, and dont vary much from it.

Okay I have another question.

Regardless of career, what would you guys think is a decent salary? and at what salary would you say wow that is a good salary?

In NYC, $100k+ is "decent", $150-200k is good, $250k+ is better.

I agree with you, this is a pretty expensive city, you can make a very good salary but the city "eats" your salary

Yep... NY State and City taxes are almost as high as Federal.

[Heracles 417]

I talk about salary with people all the time. Maybe it depends what profession you are in and how high up you are in the company.

As we should. I hate seeing people being taken advantage of.

[Empress of Groovy 373]

Well, you should have a pretty good idea of what is a reasonable salary for the type of work you do. Finding out how much your coworkers earn and then whining about it to your boss or HR isn't the thing to do.

The idea is that when you're offered a job, you and the employer work out a mutually acceptable compensation scheme. Perhaps so-and-so who earns more than you is simply a better negotiator.

If you're going to use the knowledge that a colleague earns more than you as the foundation of a raise-seeking discussion w/ your boss, you may as well just pull down your pants and take a $#it on the office floor while whistling Dixie.

I found even in the UK discussing your pay is not an issue. I guess for many Britts and Aussies a job is just income. We discuss salaries to better each other and are not too concerned with the company's interest. Over there you go to work, get paid and then go home. The weekend or our next vacation overseas is on our mind. Whereas here some people are seriously married to their career and job title. And for what peanuts, plus two weeks vacation.

I have never heard anyone whine about pay. If you know you are getting short-changed you change jobs. The key is you have to know you are being short changed. I screwed over an employer before when I found out that a person I recommended, who was hired, ended up earning more than me. I just changed jobs and gave them the minimum amount of notice during the busiest time. F##k Em.. When the manager asked me why I did this I told him he should have thought about that before short-changing me. Didn't whine for a second.

It seems that your definition of being short-changed has to do with how much you make as compared with the salaries of others at your workplace, not necessarily what is the going salary for your job. Why do you think the person you recommended ended up earning more than you? (this isn't a rhetorical question)

Another thing to consider is that many more jobs in the U.S. have a negotiable salary. My (English) husband has asked me why so few professional jobs here, aside from government jobs, often don't include even a salary range in the vacancy posting. One's starting salary is often a very flexible thing.

I'm not sure I'm understanding your assertion that the American tendency not to talk about earnings leads to some kind of employer exploitation of workers.

[Heracles 417]

And you make an assumption that they really cared...why you left!

Unless ..you own the company...

we are just a number on the spreadsheet...no more..no less...

Any successful company knows not all employees are the same. Anyone who thinks they can simply hire and fire people at will needs to go back to school. Unless you are a Walmart and provide bare minimum services, the employees are the most important asset to a company. For example, staff alone is one of the key differences when shopping at Walmart vs Target. We buy our groceries at Wegmans, a store where the customer service at their stores is phenomenal. I feel depressed looking at the staff when I visit walmart.

An example of good employees is my friend scoring a job in the financial sector in NYC. The company was willing to wait for him to transfer from London. Why would they do that considering they can hire Americans for a dime a dozen in this environment. Because he is great at what he does. Can you tell me how many people in this environment have been hired and earn a $280K plus salary?

[Heracles 417]

It seems that your definition of being short-changed has to do with how much you make as compared with the salaries of others at your workplace, not necessarily what is the going salary for your job. Why do you think the person you recommended ended up earning more than you? (this isn't a rhetorical question)

Another thing to consider is that many more jobs in the U.S. have a negotiable salary. My (English) husband has asked me why so few professional jobs here, aside from government jobs, often don't include even a salary range in the vacancy posting. One's starting salary is often a very flexible thing.

I'm not sure I'm understanding your assertion that the American tendency not to talk about earnings leads to some kind of employer exploitation of workers.

Going salary is irrelevant to me. I want to receive as much as I can while the company wants to pay me as little as possible to do the job. By discussing it with others, especially those in the same field, I can determine whether I am receiving a good deal or whether I should change positions / companies. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Another cultural difference is that you generally cannot pay people enough to work overtime abroad. We like to keep our weekends and weeknights free for 'extracurricular activities'. Whereas people working 55+ hours a week here is not uncommon. Same goes with discussing incomes. The companies policy on discussing income is irrelevant to us. We look out for our mates.

Edited November 26, 2008 by Aficionado

[eros_EX_Plumber 0]

Well, you should have a pretty good idea of what is a reasonable salary for the type of work you do. Finding out how much your coworkers earn and then whining about it to your boss or HR isn't the thing to do.

The idea is that when you're offered a job, you and the employer work out a mutually acceptable compensation scheme. Perhaps so-and-so who earns more than you is simply a better negotiator.

If you're going to use the knowledge that a colleague earns more than you as the foundation of a raise-seeking discussion w/ your boss, you may as well just pull down your pants and take a $#it on the office floor while whistling Dixie.

I found even in the UK discussing your pay is not an issue. I guess for many Britts and Aussies a job is just income. We discuss salaries to better each other and are not too concerned with the company's interest. Over there you go to work, get paid and then go home. The weekend or our next vacation overseas is on our mind. Whereas here some people are seriously married to their career and job title. And for what peanuts, plus two weeks vacation.

I have never heard anyone whine about pay. If you know you are getting short-changed you change jobs. The key is you have to know you are being short changed. I screwed over an employer before when I found out that a person I recommended, who was hired, ended up earning more than me. I just changed jobs and gave them the minimum amount of notice during the busiest time. F##k Em.. When the manager asked me why I did this I told him he should have thought about that before short-changing me. Didn't whine for a second.

It seems that your definition of being short-changed has to do with how much you make as compared with the salaries of others at your workplace, not necessarily what is the going salary for your job. Why do you think the person you recommended ended up earning more than you? (this isn't a rhetorical question)

Another thing to consider is that many more jobs in the U.S. have a negotiable salary. My (English) husband has asked me why so few professional jobs here, aside from government jobs, often don't include even a salary range in the vacancy posting. One's starting salary is often a very flexible thing.

I'm not sure I'm understanding your assertion that the American tendency not to talk about earnings leads to some kind of employer exploitation of workers.

The assertion is, you keep the salary quite, since knowledge is power.

For companies is more taboo, is the collective bargain.

God Forbid if the workers unite when they know there so much difference with 2 people doing same job, same length employment,same experiences, same academic achievement...

[Heracles 417]

The assertion is, you keep the salary quite, since knowledge is power.

For companies is more taboo, is the collective bargain.

God Forbid if the workers unite when they know there so much difference with 2 people doing same job, same length employment,same experiences, same academic achievement...

Are you an actual plumber? If so, what is the average salary of plumbers here?

[eros_EX_Plumber 0]

The assertion is, you keep the salary quite, since knowledge is power.

For companies is more taboo, is the collective bargain.

God Forbid if the workers unite when they know there so much difference with 2 people doing same job, same length employment,same experiences, same academic achievement...

Are you an actual plumber? If so, what is the average salary of plumbers here?

I am a very expensive plumber......hahaahahah

Anything full of $%^#.... I will unclog it....heheheh

[Empress of Groovy 373]

Going salary is irrelevant to me. I want to receive as much as I can while the company wants to pay me as little as possible to do the job. By discussing it with others, especially those in the same field, I can determine whether I am receiving a good deal or whether I should change positions / companies. Nothing wrong with that at all.

How is that different from determining what the going salary is?

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

I have always used my knowledge of what others make to get more money - the secret is to not let your employer know exactly what you know when you negotiate. If they are screwing you, they are probably aware of that fact but hope that you don't notice.

[Heracles 417]

How is that different from determining what the going salary is?

How do you know what the going salary at a particular company is? salary.com is quite vague. I have seen pay vary greatly in the same job from one company to another.

Anyway salary is only part of the equation. Discussing money alone seems to be quite taboo.

Edited November 26, 2008 by Aficionado

[Heracles 417]

I have always used my knowledge of what others make to get more money - the secret is to not let your employer know exactly what you know when you negotiate. If they are screwing you, they are probably aware of that fact but hope that you don't notice.

Exactly. I would never go to an employer directly and demand I earn what xyz person is earning. Most managers will resent that.

Edited November 26, 2008 by Aficionado

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

I have always used my knowledge of what others make to get more money - the secret is to not let your employer know exactly what you know when you negotiate. If they are screwing you, they are probably aware of that fact but hope that you don't notice.

Exactly. I would never go to an employer and demand I earn what xyz person is earning.

I think the primary reason you might find discrepancies is because someone who is being hired from outside the company is often in a better negotiating position than someone who has been there for some time. If you start at a certain level in a company and remain there for many years, you will often only get incremental raises. When you do negotiate, employers have an easier time justifying why they don't have to give to you since they know you much better than someone outside the company and can remind you of every time you didn't perform as well as you could.

The best way to get more $$ is to have an offer from somewhere else (even if you don't want to leave) - because then you have proven that you are worth that much money.