An ounce of prevention

[Ban Hammer 14,480]

I know there are a lot of gun owners in CA. Way more than what the media likes to talk about and what the hippies in govt. out there are comfortable with. And if it came down to hunting for your own food, it wouldn't be pretty. But, it would be a lot easier with a gun than without one. It would also be a lot easier if you had a team of gunowners working together. Owning a pistol does make you a gun owner, and it will make it easier for you to acquire food, but owning a rifle would make it easier still. Team up with two or three other rifle owners and you probably won't go hungry for a long, long time.

i am thinking that you saying having a pistol will make it easier for you to acquire food means being able to acquire it from other people?

[Brad and Vika 129]

I assume that in a week or so after the end begins Californians will just begin eating each other.

actually, i saw something like that on a faces of death movie. someone donated their body to some cult in cali and part of their rituals was to eat that person

There you have it!!

Slim I'm starting to see your point about outsiders. Some of them seem more interested in upping their post counts through the use of inane and pointless jabber than actually participating in any real and meaningful way. These kinds of people have no interest in actually cultivating any friendship or relationship with these communities, they're just there to fulfill their own selfish need for attention.

On the subject of keeping a minimum level of supplies on hand, I'm with you there. I used to keep a minimum number of supplies too (canned food, fresh water, etc) to last about 2 weeks if necessary. I should probably start doing that again.

I just raise my post count by making drive by congrats. I like to spread the joy.

[slim 1,533]

i am thinking that you saying having a pistol will make it easier for you to acquire food means being able to acquire it from other people?

That's right!

As far as boosting post counts, the drive-by smiley is way quicker!

[Ban Hammer 14,480]

i am thinking that you saying having a pistol will make it easier for you to acquire food means being able to acquire it from other people?

That's right!

As far as boosting post counts, the drive-by smiley is way quicker!

the Introducing our Members is a good forum for that

[slim 1,533]

[Brad and Vika 129]

[Danno 1,228]

I look at being armed as "insurance".

IN all probability, we will never see such times nation wide but as we have seen it in places before.. we will no doubt see it again; Bad economy or good!

Depending on where you live, determines the need one might have for it.

If in a more urban area, being able to protect your food or other things might be a greater need than anything else.

I just recently found out you can buy ammunition on-line.

When the Obama inspired preemptive shoppers.... cool their heels, I may stock up on some rounds for the SKS. Right now they are selling out.

It's a reasonably priced round and a fun gun to shoot, so why not.

My other fun-gun is this old pump 22 gallery style gun. After I bought that, I quit lugging my shotgun when rabbit hunting. Sure there is a greater chance for a miss but it ups the "sport" part of it.

[slim 1,533]

Depending on where you live, determines the need one might have for it.

I will agree that to an extent, your neighbors dictate what you need to be armed against, however, if you live in America, anywhere in America, you should own a rifle for nothing more than to preserve your 2nd Amendment rights and guarantee the existence of the other rights. Without an armed population, the vote is merely symbolic. Without arms, the govt only operates on the suggestions of the people, not the will of the people.

[Ban Hammer 14,480]

I look at being armed as "insurance".

IN all probability, we will never see such times nation wide but as we have seen it in places before.. we will no doubt see it again; Bad economy or good!

Depending on where you live, determines the need one might have for it.

If in a more urban area, being able to protect your food or other things might be a greater need than anything else.

I just recently found out you can buy ammunition on-line.

When the Obama inspired preemptive shoppers.... cool their heels, I may stock up on some rounds for the SKS. Right now they are selling out.

It's a reasonably priced round and a fun gun to shoot, so why not.

My other fun-gun is this old pump 22 gallery style gun. After I bought that, I quit lugging my shotgun when rabbit hunting. Sure there is a greater chance for a miss but it ups the "sport" part of it.

quite true, i've been checking into increasing my stockage. it's amazing how expensive ammo is nowadays.

[ndalessandro 0]

Recessions and depressions are common place for countries. About every decade, a recession occurs, because there is something in the market that requires a 'correction'. This time, the market correction was the real estate market.

The economy here in the USA is not bad. I am not going to imply it is great, but it isn't bad either. It's exactly what I expect it to look like in a recession.

There is nothing happening in our economy that has not happened before. And just like before, the recession will end, and we will have have growth again. And 10-15 years from that point, we will have another recession ect.

If your wondering what gun you should purchase for the purposes of self-defense (from looters, thieves and eventually gangs in the event a economic collapse) and acquisition of food (killing small and moderate sized game) I would highly recommend a shotgun. Of course, I would recommend the 12 gauge, as it is the most commonly used shotgun and the ammo for it is plentiful and cheap (for shotgun ammo). I would also highly recommend you use #4 buckshot. It will drop any intruder, as well as small to moderate sized animals.

To be honest, I think the best thing to do in any recession or economic downturn is to reduce the amount of debt you owe.

Nick

[Danno 1,228]

......

To be honest, I think the best thing to do in any recession or economic downturn is to reduce the amount of debt you owe.

Nick

Actually that is a much easier plan to follow "Before" a recession.

When things start getting tight.... paying off more than you owe (that month) is not so easy.

The only payment I have is my house and Van, I was thinking about paying off my van early but who knows... I might wish I had that $3500 to buy groceries (or even ammo this time next year.

[Ban Hammer 14,480]

Recessions and depressions are common place for countries. About every decade, a recession occurs, because there is something in the market that requires a 'correction'. This time, the market correction was the real estate market.

The economy here in the USA is not bad. I am not going to imply it is great, but it isn't bad either. It's exactly what I expect it to look like in a recession.

There is nothing happening in our economy that has not happened before. And just like before, the recession will end, and we will have have growth again. And 10-15 years from that point, we will have another recession ect.

If your wondering what gun you should purchase for the purposes of self-defense (from looters, thieves and eventually gangs in the event a economic collapse) and acquisition of food (killing small and moderate sized game) I would highly recommend a shotgun. Of course, I would recommend the 12 gauge, as it is the most commonly used shotgun and the ammo for it is plentiful and cheap (for shotgun ammo). I would also highly recommend you use #4 buckshot. It will drop any intruder, as well as small to moderate sized animals.

To be honest, I think the best thing to do in any recession or economic downturn is to reduce the amount of debt you owe.

Nick

a 12 gauge is an excellent choice. one can hunt small birds up to and including large animals (with slugs). 0 buckshot is my round of choice for self defense, it's 9 .32 caliber balls at once. i'd not recommend #4 buckshot for small animals though due to the price of it plus #7 1/2 is a good all around choice for birds smaller than ducks and for other animals, medium dog size and smaller. (i used the medium size dog on purpose, as packs of housepets may be an issue in this scenario and it's worthwhile to know that 7 1/2 can deal with them).

max effective range is limited however, birds with #7 1/2 - #9 is about 40 yards, about out to 100 yards max with a slug or buckshot.

when picking a firearm for self defense in the above scenario (economic collapse) DON'T go with oddball/unusual calibers. standard calibers for rifles are .22, 30-06, 270, .308 and .223. for pistols the common calibers are .22, 9mm, .38, .45, and .40.

shotguns are 12 and 20 gauge, with 12 being the preferred. getting something other than those could make scavenging ammo difficult, and the common calibers are generally cheaper too (as i've discovered when i priced 25-06, it's about half again as much as 30-06 although it's based on the same case).

more info for those interested:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_shell

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_shot

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_slug

Edited December 2, 2008 by charles!

[Brad and Vika 129]

Recessions and depressions are common place for countries. About every decade, a recession occurs, because there is something in the market that requires a 'correction'. This time, the market correction was the real estate market.

The economy here in the USA is not bad. I am not going to imply it is great, but it isn't bad either. It's exactly what I expect it to look like in a recession.

There is nothing happening in our economy that has not happened before. And just like before, the recession will end, and we will have have growth again. And 10-15 years from that point, we will have another recession ect.

If your wondering what gun you should purchase for the purposes of self-defense (from looters, thieves and eventually gangs in the event a economic collapse) and acquisition of food (killing small and moderate sized game) I would highly recommend a shotgun. Of course, I would recommend the 12 gauge, as it is the most commonly used shotgun and the ammo for it is plentiful and cheap (for shotgun ammo). I would also highly recommend you use #4 buckshot. It will drop any intruder, as well as small to moderate sized animals.

To be honest, I think the best thing to do in any recession or economic downturn is to reduce the amount of debt you owe.

Nick

I think the critical issue for most Americans (and SOs) now is the probable length of the recession. The news today said that the US has officially been in a recession since last December. That puts the window at about 18 more months for a full blown recession, with the absolute bottom of the trough between now and April.

[Thomas-n-Elena 0]

Actually what they say is that a recession last about 18 months and if we have been in one since december 2007 then we should start seeing a turnaround in july or august. The other thing that worries me is how many states are running huge deficits. California has rung up about 17billion because of bad fiscal policy and that state alone in among the top ten economies of the world. What if a state goes belly up can we sell california back to mexico or maybe russia wants to buy it now.

[slim 1,533]

100% agreed in principle (as we've discussed before) but I really like the convenience of a pistol. I live in a small apartment and don't really have a way that I'd feel comfortable with storing a rifle without taking up a lot of space. I've got a biometric pistol safe that's easily stashed out of sight and yet allows instant access. If you've got any suggestions on something that doesn't take up a lot of room and isn't heavier than a damned pickup (I have stairs) to stow a rifle I'm all ears.

Keep in mind, a pistol is something you use to get to your rifle! In your scenario, mox, a pump shotgun would be an excellent choice. Throw it in the closet, no case needed, and if it gets jacked, no big deal because you're only out $200 or so. Your little biometric safe is cool, but unless it's bolted down or hidden well, it'll probably get stolen before a long gun. There's only one thing in those little boxes!

As for apartment storage, hang it up (by a sling) on the back of a door and cover it up with a jacket. Doesn't look like anything's there except the jacket. Plus, if you need it, it's ready quickly. Don't forget about the little gap between the fridge/stove/cabinets/walls, on top of cabinets, behind a desk or dresser or something similar. A great place is above the door jam in a closet. The more "hood" folks like to keep them under the couch or between the matress and box springs, register vents, speakers, under the toilet tank cover - there are lots of good hiding spots for both pistols and long guns, you just have to be creative. And, you also have to be safe. It goes without saying but you have to make sure you keep it ready enough for you to use but safe enough those who may come in contact with it (kids, angry wife, etc.) to not accidentally shoot themselves. I prefer to keep all my guns "loaded" but with no rounds in the chamber; reason being, is it's very safe and if you're faced with a situation where you may have to use your gun, you can ####### it first and often times the act (and sound!) of cocking a gun, especially a pump shotgun, is enough to de-escalate any situation.

See post below.

If your wondering what gun you should purchase for the purposes of self-defense (from looters, thieves and eventually gangs in the event a economic collapse) and acquisition of food (killing small and moderate sized game) I would highly recommend a shotgun. Of course, I would recommend the 12 gauge, as it is the most commonly used shotgun and the ammo for it is plentiful and cheap (for shotgun ammo). I would also highly recommend you use #4 buckshot. It will drop any intruder, as well as small to moderate sized animals.

See post below.

a 12 gauge is an excellent choice. one can hunt small birds up to and including large animals (with slugs). 0 buckshot is my round of choice for self defense, it's 9 .32 caliber balls at once. i'd not recommend #4 buckshot for small animals though due to the price of it plus #7 1/2 is a good all around choice for birds smaller than ducks and for other animals, medium dog size and smaller. (i used the medium size dog on purpose, as packs of housepets may be an issue in this scenario and it's worthwhile to know that 7 1/2 can deal with them).

max effective range is limited however, birds with #7 1/2 - #9 is about 40 yards, about out to 100 yards max with a slug or buckshot.

when picking a firearm for self defense in the above scenario (economic collapse) DON'T go with oddball/unusual calibers. standard calibers for rifles are .22, 30-06, 270, .308 and .223. for pistols the common calibers are .22, 9mm, .38, .45, and .40.

shotguns are 12 and 20 gauge, with 12 being the preferred. getting something other than those could make scavenging ammo difficult, and the common calibers are generally cheaper too (as i've discovered when i priced 25-06, it's about half again as much as 30-06 although it's based on the same case).

Agreed with both of you guys but just wanted to add for shotguns- make sure you get a pump action shotgun and have a few different types of shells available. For the SHTF scenario I'd get nothing smaller than a #4 shot and would be more comfortable with 00-Buck or even slugs. I'd load with the buckshot and then have slugs readily available just in case. Keep in mind too that shotguns are what you want to use to "pick a lock" if you don't have your "big red keys" handy. http://www.ktool.net/servlet/the-1336/KLEI...30-30%22/Detail A good pump shotgun can be bought at WalMart for around $200 and with $20 in ammo, you're all set.

Charles! is spot-on with his suggestion to pick only "standard" calibers as they will be more readily available. The only thing I'll add on there is the 7.62X39 for rifles (AK, SKS, etc.) and you could probably do reasonably well with the .357 and .44 for handguns.

You guys may think I'm crazy, but if it gets to the point where the zombies or aliens or whatever are invading (or Red Dawn!) I'll have my Colt AR-15 (.223), my Remington 870 (12ga.), and my Para-Ordnance NiteHawg (.45) all on my person at the same time. Oh, and my tomahawk, my knife, my Leatherman, and maybe even my E-tool just for good measure. And let's not forget about all that ammo! Flashlight, canteens, poncho, radio, compass, and the list goes on and on and on.......

Call me crazy, but I'd rather be ready for worst-case and deal with something like someone pounding on my door at 3AM than have something worst-case and only be ready for someone pounding on my door. Survival/Disaster prep is like air.... most of the time you don't even realize you need it. But, then when you don't have any, and you really need it........