Freedom of Movement in the MENA Countries?

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

How free is an American Woman married to a MENA man able to move around the country they are living if residing in a MENA country with their spouses?

Someone was just sharing some facts with me about Jordan and saying that their Husband legally has about 20% Freedom of movement over them in there where as in Saudi Arabia the men have 100% freedom of movement over their women.

Does anyone know the facts here for Egypt or any of the other MENA countries?

[Staashi 371]

How free is an American Woman married to a MENA man able to move around the country they are living if residing in a MENA country with their spouses?

Someone was just sharing some facts with me about Jordan and saying that their Husband legally has about 20% Freedom of movement over them in there where as in Saudi Arabia the men have 100% freedom of movement over their women.

Does anyone know the facts here for Egypt or any of the other MENA countries?

You might want to find out this one from the State Department, Olivia. Especially, if you someday have children and need to get out of the country asap. You could be fine, you could be farked. I would also go to an American expat site for Egypt for more information on this one.

[JeanneVictoria 55]

Olivia, Wael told me that I am free to travel anywhere I want to in Egypt. There are no

restrictions.

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

Staashi apparently we have some Expats on here that could help shed light on the truth of some regions they live in. HLM is an Egyptian Expat in America now, and ninoquinn is an American? Expat living in Egypt, and there was another American? Expat living in Egypt names Aisha who commented in my Human Rights in Egypt thread several months ago. Who else... isn't Henia an American? Expat in Algeria as well? I'd like to hear from them.

Jeanne I don't know if Wael is right. Maybe legally but socially there are some constraints. I can recall one such incident where my Husband restricted my freedom of movement in his friend Waleed's house in Hurghada. I had just taken a shower and some men came over to clean the apartment and fix some electricity they said. So my Husband put me in the spare room and told me to stay in there until the men leave. I was locked in there for an hour before I had to open the window to the balcony to get some air in my dungeon. The men were taking some time. My Husband patrolled the balcony and would not let me even stick my arm out the window to let them see me. It was very controlling but gentle and I didn't understand what was going on but apparently if the men knew that there was a western woman in the apartment of two Egyptian Males they may seek the police because morally it looks bad even if I am the wife of one of the Egyptians. We were newlyweds visiting and we didn't have our marriage contract with us because it was in process in Cairo for translation to English.

Edited November 22, 2008 by Olivia*

[tenderheartusa79 14]

Staashi apparently we have some Expats on here that could help shed light on the truth of some regions they live in. HLM is an Egyptian Expat in America now, and ninoquinn is an American? Expat living in Egypt, and there was another American? Expat living in Egypt names Aisha who commented in my Human Rights in Egypt thread several months ago. Who else... isn't Henia an American? Expat in Algeria as well? I'd like to hear from them.

Jeanne I don't know if Wael is right. Maybe legally but socially there are some constraints. I can recall one such incident where my Husband restricted my freedom of movement in his friend Waleed's house in Hurghada. I had just taken a shower and some men came over to clean the apartment and fix some electricity they said. So my Husband put me in the spare room and told me to stay in there until the men leave. I was locked in there for an hour before I had to open the window to the balcony to get some air in my dungeon. The men were taking some time. My Husband patrolled the balcony and would not let me even stick my arm out the window to let them see me. It was very controlling but gentle and I didn't understand what was going on but apparently if the men knew that there was a western woman in the apartment of two Egyptian Males they may seek the police because morally it looks bad even if I am the wife of one of the Egyptians. We were newlyweds visiting and we didn't have our marriage contract with us because it was in process in Cairo for translation to English.

Wael is right you are free to travel to anywhere.

well i think maybe cause MENA men are kinda jealous and they don't like any another man to see their wives at least at their homes .

well Egyptian police will not do anything when it comes to a foreign woman or man especially if they are American . cause the Egyptian police will not get enveloped when it comes to American citizen .

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

Staashi apparently we have some Expats on here that could help shed light on the truth of some regions they live in. HLM is an Egyptian Expat in America now, and ninoquinn is an American? Expat living in Egypt, and there was another American? Expat living in Egypt names Aisha who commented in my Human Rights in Egypt thread several months ago. Who else... isn't Henia an American? Expat in Algeria as well? I'd like to hear from them.

Jeanne I don't know if Wael is right. Maybe legally but socially there are some constraints. I can recall one such incident where my Husband restricted my freedom of movement in his friend Waleed's house in Hurghada. I had just taken a shower and some men came over to clean the apartment and fix some electricity they said. So my Husband put me in the spare room and told me to stay in there until the men leave. I was locked in there for an hour before I had to open the window to the balcony to get some air in my dungeon. The men were taking some time. My Husband patrolled the balcony and would not let me even stick my arm out the window to let them see me. It was very controlling but gentle and I didn't understand what was going on but apparently if the men knew that there was a western woman in the apartment of two Egyptian Males they may seek the police because morally it looks bad even if I am the wife of one of the Egyptians. We were newlyweds visiting and we didn't have our marriage contract with us because it was in process in Cairo for translation to English.

Wael is right you are free to travel to anywhere.

well i think maybe cause MENA men are kinda jealous and they don't like any another man to see their wives at least at their homes .

well Egyptian police will not do anything when it comes to a foreign woman or man especially if they are American . cause the Egyptian police will not get enveloped when it comes to American citizen .

You see my Husband says that too but then they do get involved in the Egyptians life. For example we had to carry our passports around to all the major monument sites and they would ask for his first, then look at my resident stamp. You can't get married there without one and he would tell them we just got married. Then they would let us go through. The government does get involved in domestically in public places. I don't know about private but after reading about the two British people who were arrested in Dubai for having sex on the beach last July I am wondering what other laws are there that restricts peoples freedom of movement?

I also remember traveling through and between some resorts like El Gouna to Hurghada by shuttle the government would have check points and they would get on the bus and look for any foreigners. Then they would ask to see our passports and take our names and numbers so they knew were we were moving. I just like to point out that kind of thing doesn't happen in American buses usually.

[HLM 1]

Hmmm well u r free to move anywhere u want. The incident with the buses is weird coz i traveled with my american friends and we had no issues at all! i do believe if the police is bored they can get into some action just for the hell of it and it wdnt even be in the law or recommended of them to do. if u get serious with them n say ill contact my embassy u have to see the look on their faces n how fast ur problems will disappear

[tenderheartusa79 14]

Staashi apparently we have some Expats on here that could help shed light on the truth of some regions they live in. HLM is an Egyptian Expat in America now, and ninoquinn is an American? Expat living in Egypt, and there was another American? Expat living in Egypt names Aisha who commented in my Human Rights in Egypt thread several months ago. Who else... isn't Henia an American? Expat in Algeria as well? I'd like to hear from them.

Jeanne I don't know if Wael is right. Maybe legally but socially there are some constraints. I can recall one such incident where my Husband restricted my freedom of movement in his friend Waleed's house in Hurghada. I had just taken a shower and some men came over to clean the apartment and fix some electricity they said. So my Husband put me in the spare room and told me to stay in there until the men leave. I was locked in there for an hour before I had to open the window to the balcony to get some air in my dungeon. The men were taking some time. My Husband patrolled the balcony and would not let me even stick my arm out the window to let them see me. It was very controlling but gentle and I didn't understand what was going on but apparently if the men knew that there was a western woman in the apartment of two Egyptian Males they may seek the police because morally it looks bad even if I am the wife of one of the Egyptians. We were newlyweds visiting and we didn't have our marriage contract with us because it was in process in Cairo for translation to English.

Wael is right you are free to travel to anywhere.

well i think maybe cause MENA men are kinda jealous and they don't like any another man to see their wives at least at their homes .

well Egyptian police will not do anything when it comes to a foreign woman or man especially if they are American . cause the Egyptian police will not get enveloped when it comes to American citizen .

You see my Husband says that too but then they do get involved in the Egyptians life. For example we had to carry our passports around to all the major monument sites and they would ask for his first, then look at my resident stamp. You can't get married there without one and he would tell them we just got married. Then they would let us go through. The government does get involved in domestically in public places. I don't know about private but after reading about the two British people who were arrested in Dubai for having sex on the beach last July I am wondering what other laws are there that restricts peoples freedom of movement?

I also remember traveling through and between some resorts like El Gouna to Hurghada by shuttle the government would have check points and they would get on the bus and look for any foreigners. Then they would ask to see our passports and take our names and numbers so they knew were we were moving. I just like to point out that kind of thing doesn't happen in American buses usually.

thats right cause they want to know if you just come to visit or to get marry so you have to get that stamp .

well its Dubai not Egypt . have you ever been in sharm Elshiekh ? American,Russian....people having sex on the beach ,the pool.... and no one can even look at them .

you are right cause thats happening but just at some places not in all of Egypt . maybe between sharm and hughada or El gouna .... cause there are so many people thier so they try to protect them as much as they can .

so they just do that to protect them not more than that .

yeah i know that doesn't happen in USA .

there are so bad people as you know who don't like foreign or American...so the police check all the buses to make sure that people who will go to that kinda cites or resort are clear and they are not criminals ( remember what happend in sharm before!!!!!).

i will tell you something ,maybe you will not believe it . American people are so powerful more than Egyptian people in Egypt . and they even have rights more than Egyptian people their selves .

and yeah by the way i remember when Trina was here the first time someone came to check the air condition and i told her to go to the other room . so i think all the MENA men will do the same not just Waleed .

[tenderheartusa79 14]

Hmmm well u r free to move anywhere u want. The incident with the buses is weird coz i traveled with my american friends and we had no issues at all! i do believe if the police is bored they can get into some action just for the hell of it and it wdnt even be in the law or recommended of them to do. if u get serious with them n say ill contact my embassy u have to see the look on their faces n how fast ur problems will disappear

thats what i mean by American are so powerful here in Egypt .

if you say what HLM says to an Egyptian officer you will try to count how many times he will say sorry to you LOL cause he know if you will do that he will be in trouble

Edited November 22, 2008 by Hot Guy

[MrsAmera 41]

Olivia,

I think you're right. But I also think part of it is the husband. I know I traveled freely in Morocco as a single American but as an American wife of a Moroccan - it's different. I've been "put in the room" but with my SIL's and MIL. Just different I guess. I want to write more but this keyboard sucks

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Olivia,

I think you're right. But I also think part of it is the husband. I know I traveled freely in Morocco as a single American but as an American wife of a Moroccan - it's different. I've been "put in the room" but with my SIL's and MIL. Just different I guess. I want to write more but this keyboard sucks

Because no one wants people talking about his wife running around at night by herself. Before we got married, we went everywhere. After we got married, we couldnt go to discos or adult themed stuff. We had to go to family oriented places. Do "family" things etc etc etc.The last time we were there I had to wear hijab and jilbab and he was thrilled because people love seeing western women in traditional clothing because it shows ( this is what I think not what is reality) that he has control over his wife and she doesnt wear the pants..But then again, hiding you can be a 2 edged coin, it could be because you do not have a bonafide marriage and he hasnt told anyone he is married so he hides you.. OR it could be that he is obsessively jealous. It goes two ways if we are honest with ourselves... Or they can hide you with one group of people and not with others because some know them better... or if he is living a double life while you are in the states and he doesnt want people who have frequent contact with him to know he has a wife if he is doing other stuff... OR will eagerly show you to people he doesnt have contact with... OR everyone knows about you and things are normal. My husband was excessively strict with me because ( walking me up and down the streets of his neighborhood in full hijab) because I think he wanted to show everyone he was married to a strict muslima ( which is a joke and a half)

You never know WHY people do anything anyway. We are not together right now and now hes calling from his grandmas acting like we are all halal and things are ok dokie.. Oh who KNOWS what people think.. especially mena people. I never read them right but they are sometimes pretty predictable

cheers

[MrsAmera 41]

I don't think its a matter of "hiding" the spouse, at least I never felt hidden. It was more of "this is my wife and you aren't going to see her while you're in my house." Mind you this was only with non-family (repair workers etc.) I never went anywhere alone just out of nervousness. If I actully lived there it would be different. Moroccan women go out alone to work, shop etc so I don't think it's much like what I've heard about other MENA countries

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

HIT all those thoughts ran through my mind when I was being captive in that room for awhile. I saw captive because you should have seen the conditions of the room they shoved me in at the first second. It was disheveled. The floor had been hastily mopped and the foam mattresses on the two twin bed tossed and the beds moved around. I had to sit in this pile of mess for over an hour. When I opened the balcony window there were no screens. The balcony door was open and it sounded like forks on plates as if the men in the other room where having lunch with the host of the apartment? It was so weird! I being the only female was excluded and shoved in a box to be hidden in the dark for whatever reason. So yeah all those thoughts went through my mind.

HLM and HG I don't know what to say. I just don't know if it is really the case because I have read reports where the Egyptian police and military are not afraid of foreigners and will arrest them just like any other Egyptians but Egyptians get it worse. For example when the riots in Mahallah happened a few months back an American Journalist and his Translator were arrested. The American Journalist was released because he had technology on him that was able to communicate with people back in the states to find him and get him out of prision. Otherwise who knows how long he would have been in there. To this date they still have not been able to located his translator and get him out of the system. It is very sad and not the first case of wrongful imprisionment of people in Egypt.

MrsAmera. Thank goodness I am not the only one that feels that way.

BTW the British couple in Dubai got three months in jail for their crime.

[Aymsgirl 0]

I was never put in a room. When my husband's friends came over they were invited in and I was introduced to them. We would all sit in the living room together and have tea. I walked amongst my husband's village with him holding hands and we had no issues. There was one time that I did stay in the dining room because the landlord of one of the flats that we rented came to the door so my husband said I will meet him in the living room. He never said stay but I think that is what he wanted to try and get across to me because I had on a pair of shorts at the time. I really never adventured too far by myself so I can't say whether I would feel comfortable enough or felt unsafe but during all of my visits I never did feel unsafe at any time. I realize there are places that just aren't ideal for tourists though.

I will ask my husband what his views are and if there are any legal restraints. He was an attorney if and he should be able to shed some light on this for us regarding the law side of the things.

[Staashi 371]

Olivia, I was implying that I'd seek out an American expat living in Egypt who is married to an Egyptian, not an Egyptian expat living in US married to an American.