Fiancée Having Second Thoughts

[Badgerella 5]

minibadger - very comprehensive post there. I would have just told her to stfu.

On a seperate note, could either you or Badgerella clear something up for me? With regard to the WW2 references, I was rather under the impression that Hanging In There was (for once in this thread) correct about one thing: that being that the Croats sided with the Nazis whilst the Serbs were on our side.

Please understand that I am NOT having a pop at you here, I'm just interested in the subject and would like your input.

Between May of 1941 and September 1943, Croatia ended up with a self-proclaimed leader. More on that can be found here, in a Wiki entry on NDH, even though I would reserve the right for this to not be 100% accurate, as it's just a Wiki entry (am in a bit of a hurry, so can't read it myself). So, yes, one could say that during this period Croatia, not Croatians (as we did not elect or want Ante Pavelic to lead the country in any way), sided with the Nazis. During WW2 the 'main' army we had here in the region (including Croatia), were Partisans (note: again a Wiki entry). Most Croatians, along with other nations of former Yugoslavia, were members of that. The Partisans fought against the Axis, even during the NDH (which they finally defeated later in the war).

Long story short - the former Yugoslavia, as a region, has a very complex history, politically and otherwise. Here have been kingdoms, socialist formations and even the fascist NDH. For the latter, whilst nobody denies its existance during the said period, it needs to be understood that it was something Croatia was literally - swept in. Considering WW2 and other circumstances Croatia was in from almost before time until 1991, it was just basically impossible for Croatians to get rid of it any sooner than they actually did.

[Badgerella 5]

So, yes, one could say that during this period Croatia, not Croatians (as we did not elect or want Ante Pavelic to lead the country in any way), sided with the Nazis.

Just to clarify this a bit further - instead of 'Croatia, not Croatians', I should have said a regime claiming to control Croatia.

Also worth mentioning - the law here forbids displaying of any and all fascist (in the region, they were known as Ustaše) symbols, dating from the NDH. It is insulting to almost any and all Croatians, let alone other nations or ethnicities. No holidays, memorial days or even statues exist, glorify or otherwise celebrate anything from the said period. Partisans, as the anti-Axis formation from WW2 still get respect and always will.

[*Snowdrop* 604]

To the OP:

I resented being forced to move to the US when I was happy in Canada...

I didn't want to go to the US. I wanted to be with my partner. I couldn't have one without the other.

I was 100% about the guy, but not sure about the move.

Galateia - I have had very similar feelings to this.

OP - I have felt very apprehensive about the idea of moving over to the US and leaving my family and friends thousands of miles away. I hated leaving my job which I loved and I have many concerns about how life will be in the US. I had the chance to spend three months over the summer living with my husband in the place which will be our home to begin with, and finally living together and making that place into our 'home' made me feel a lot better about all my worries. But it has taken time. I suppose I echo Galateia in my feeling that while I have never doubted my feelings for my husband I was still having doubts about the move. Now I can't wait.

[*Snowdrop* 604]

The only things that have been said in this thread are that different people have different situations and opinions as to the balance of pros and cons about America, as compared to itself and as compared to other countries. These comparisons however have NOT been made in generalizations; in fact, you were the person most generalizing in this thread. People were comparing things to apply to their personal, private, and unique situations, not to tell anyone else how to think. We all realize what we have different journies, situations, and needs. Those are my by different things, and no one should tell another that they are outright wrong, let alone attempt to tell them how they feel or think.

Minibadger - great post

[Ban Hammer 13,340]

Sir, I want you to listen very carefully to me.

that's a she

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I dont do well when people tell me that they are coming here and feel absolutely no thankful ness to be here or appreciate what america is or means.. I think I have a new appreciation for consular officers.. I wish they knew the true hearts of the people that they are interviewing.. I doubt they would feel real thrilled to know that someone trying to be petitioned here isnt at least "in like" with the USA

Sir, I want you to listen very carefully to me.

I feel you've said and done some disgusting things in this thread. You've mischaracterized and misrepresented many opinions and statements, and have degraded the intentions, relationships, and even countries of others in this thread. You've done this while being angry at others for not properly appreciating your own country, and have even, now repeatedly, wished ill upon those applying for visas because of these misinterpretations and biases. If this is a forum in which people are supposed to help others, that alone should send you away from here.

Yet I realize our worldviews are so different that it's likely not productive to argue you point-by-point. And I can sense that you're currently angry about many things in your life and environment. So instead of expressing my anger at you and your statements, I will extend a hand and try to reach common ground by explaining the things which my fiancee, Badgerella, myself, and others have said here. I think if you understand what we're actually saying, rather than what you are a bit quick to assume we are, you'll be much less upset.

Please go back and read this entire thread. Nowhere in it has anyone insulted America. Nowhere in it has anyone insulted Americans. And, as improper and irrelevant as it was for you to suddenly start bringing up the Holocaust and WW2, no one has insulted American troops, or even questioned any intervention or military action it has made. As a matter of fact, by saying that Bush has tarnished America and our image with the Iraq war, you are the sole person in this thread to question the troops. I repeat, no one here has expressed any ill opinions about American troops or the immense sacrifices a soldier makes for his country and people. No one is being unappreciative.

If you feel the lack of mention was what was unnapreciative, please look at the context. Those things were not mentioned because this is a thread about a Fiancee having second thoughts, and about family and relationship planning. It wasn't one about war or assigning merit to the past and present actions of countries. History and war lessons are not very applicable to such things as the troubles a person is having in their relationships and lives at this very moment. No one was degrading anyone's efforts for anything historical in this thread. There should be no quarrel here.

Nowhere in this thread said anything to indicate that they do not appreciate America or its ideals. In fact, if you'll look at VisaJourney, and the world's reaction to Obama's election, you'll see that a large majority of foreigners want America to succeed and return to its original ideals. The people on this forum are all here because they're trying to better ensure their passage into America for family, love, opportunity, or a mix of all three. If any of us thought so poorly of America as you characterize some of us, they would have never started relationships or petition processes with those who would have us come there. Obviously, even in the worst of cases, America is good enough. In the majority, America is good or better. In some, America really is the promised land. But in EVERY CASE, America is the destination. We have a common ground. Please do not treat us as if we who are coming, have come, and even have lived here all our lives hate our countries. When you do, you insult your own past, present, and future countrymen.

The only things that have been said in this thread are that different people have different situations and opinions as to the balance of pros and cons about America, as compared to itself and as compared to other countries. These comparisons however have NOT been made in generalizations; in fact, you were the person most generalizing in this thread. People were comparing things to apply to their personal, private, and unique situations, not to tell anyone else how to think. We all realize what we have different journies, situations, and needs. Those are my by different things, and no one should tell another that they are outright wrong, let alone attempt to tell them how they feel or think.

People in this thread were expressing their own different needs and situations, that is all. The things you yourself have expressed not liking about America may not be a problem to some; to some they may even be the best thing. When a person says that they personally do not view America as the promised land, that isn't an insult to America; it's simply expressing that for their needs, it isn't perfect, or maybe not even the best. Even you yourself have pointed out dissatisfaction and faults. When a person expresses that something isn't for them, or isn't their opinion, sir, it just isn't the same as an insult or slapping on a label. In fact, dissent and the freedom to seek one's individual happiness is one of the most fundamental American values. And I love America.

The fact that I think other countries may be doing a lot of things better than America, or that some other country may be better for me personally had I been born there, or that I realize that other people have different values that may be better met somewhere else, does not mean I hate or do not appreciate America. I love America and have sacrificed my reputation, friends, and pleasantries for its original beliefs and I fight for its freedoms. I am not unAmerican, unpatriotic, or unappreciative simply because I also fight for the rights of people in other countries. I am not unappreciative simply because I do not think any country has a monopoly on all things good and all things bad. Every country has travesties, mistakes, and faults along with its successes, triumphs and virtues. Every person interprets that mix based on their own situations and needs. That's not an insult, or insuboridination, or unappreciation of anything. It's only people being people; people you've unfairly labeled with very negative traits and opinions they don't actually hold. You've made enemies out of those who, by their opinions, are at least your countrymen, if not your friends.

People who plan ahead in their relationships, careers, or living situations are in no way necessarily taking anything for granted or in ill faith. In fact, in most cases they do so because they care that extra amount about making things work through actual effort, actions, and preparation rather than just hope or promises. Love lifts all boats and makes everything easier, but in the end, as any old married couple will tell you, it's the effort and sheer determination that keeps a life and a relationship together. I do not consider naivete and surprise a virtue over planning and preparation.

I and my fiancee both expect to work, physically, emotionally, and financially, for our relationship and are under no illusions that it will always be happy or successful. It is in that knowledge that we put things in place and prepare to make things work in those situations that are the hardest. Just because my fiancee or anyone else says that they hope not to end up working a janitorial job in no way means she or anyone else is not prepared or willing to work, or work hard. it is the exact same as you hoping that your hard work pays off. Those in this thread have worked hard to earn degrees and educate themselves. The fact that they did so in another country does not mean that you should expect them to be happy and appreciative if they come here and end up sorting tomatoes. You would feel the exact same way if your work and education led to such a thing. At the same time, I and my fiancee are both willing to work such a job if it comes to that, and we realize that some things need to be re-done and re-established in the USA or any other new country or environment, and that may very well indeed mean working her way back up the ladder to where she currently is abroad. If that isn't the definition of wanting to and being willing to work hard to get ahead, I don't know what is.

By characterizing my fiancee and others in this thread as having ill intentions or being lazy and unappreciative of employment and hard work, you insult others who share your same opinion and definition of those same things. We want to work hard. We don't consider planning ahead for employment opportunities to be anything other than more evidence of how much we love each other and want to make sure it works. We will do whatever it takes to have our hard work and planning be rewarded and successful.

At the same time, we all know some people really are fraudulent. We all know many abuse the system. We have seen the horror stories here about relationships, life stories, and deceptions. But that doesn't mean any or all specific people are any of those things. And it seems odd to vent those traits on those willing to sticking their head out enough to express their true opinions and hopes that their hard work will pay off.

In the end, we're all trying to come to America, at least for a while, for our own blends of reasons. This is what we want, for our own reasons. The combinations of circumstances make America the choice of everyone here. We are not unappreciative. We give thanks for the reasons that lead us here. We are hard workers and we believe enough to open our mouths and be heard, even if it means disagreeing or offending someone with a differing opinion or situation. We wish others success and happiness wherever they may find it.

We share common ground. We can agree and be friends if you'd only realize it. We wish you success in your situation and for your needs, wherever you may find it. Please wish us the same, instead of wishing us failure for our differing opinions. Our commonalities are far more numerous and strong than our differences. Can you please step back, take a breath, and embrace them?

Thank you.

great post.

I still think that people getting to immigrate here are very lucky even if they do not choose to acknowledge that. The USA despite its faults provides more opportunity to people from all backgrounds. How many black presidents are in the Schengen? With a single mom no less and his wife is from a modest background as well. And as much as you might not believe it, in my neck of the woods, if someone gets off the plane and acts unhappy or ungrateful to be here thinking that this place is not all that, she may be FREE to say that but she sure as hell wont be popular at work or with fellow Americans. I don't know too many people who live here as natives that are real thrilled with people bashing our country. The ones who do the best embrace the good here, fight hard to take every opportunity that comes and do not act superior in any way. How do I know? I work with immigrants and help them and I can see a clear difference between people who feel entitled. Its helps to be nice to Americans. If you are happy to be here and see the good, we are happy to have you.

minibadger - very comprehensive post there. I would have just told her to stfu.

On a seperate note, could either you or Badgerella clear something up for me? With regard to the WW2 references, I was rather under the impression that Hanging In There was (for once in this thread) correct about one thing: that being that the Croats sided with the Nazis whilst the Serbs were on our side.

Please understand that I am NOT having a pop at you here, I'm just interested in the subject and would like your input.

And yes, Croatia was one of the most genocidal countries during world war 2. To refresh everyones memory, it was a collective cooperative genocide not just done by few fascists.Civilians packed trains, they assisted in the pick up, informing and helped the nazis arrest Jews, Muslims and more than a million people died in death camps there. There is a wing at the holocaust museum devoted to the massacres in Croatia. Not once have they issued an apology and are some of the most unrepentant participants in the holocaust noted by Simon Wiestenthal. Muslim deaths almost equaled Jews. They had a huge role in the success of the Nazis for over 4 years. Germany has done a much better job at helping and cooperating but it hasnt been until lately. The Roma have NEVER been compensated by either country.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

minibadger - very comprehensive post there. I would have just told her to stfu.

On a seperate note, could either you or Badgerella clear something up for me? With regard to the WW2 references, I was rather under the impression that Hanging In There was (for once in this thread) correct about one thing: that being that the Croats sided with the Nazis whilst the Serbs were on our side.

Please understand that I am NOT having a pop at you here, I'm just interested in the subject and would like your input.

Croatias Role in the Genocide... University of Minnesota

http://www.chgs.umn.edu/educational/croatia/

from the international herald tribune

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/11/28/news/croatia.php

What distinguished the killing at Jasenovac Croatia was its randomness, and its ferocity. There were no gas ovens; prisoners died by having their throats slit and their skulls smashed. Others were shot or hanged from telegraph polls and the trees that lined the Sava.

From Dr Kimmel , a Croatia Holocaust survivor

After conquering Yugoslavia in 1941, Hitler set up a puppet government in the deeply Catholic Croatia. The fascist government was run by the local Fuhrer - the Poglavnik. The Croatians created a paramilitary organization the Ustasi, who roamed the country and were killing the Jews and Serbs with unbelievable cruelty. The Fitzroy Maclean, a British emissary to the Yugoslavian guerrillas, describes the Ustashis horror:

The whole of Bosnia ran with blood. Bands of the Ustase roamed the countryside with knives, bludgeons and machine guns, slaughtering Serbian and Jewish men, women and little children, desecrating Serbian churches, murdering Serbian priests, laying waste Serbian villages, torturing, raping, burning, drowning. Killing became a cult, an obsession. The Ustase vied to outdo each other, boasting of the numbers of their victims and of their own particular methods of dispatching them. ...Some Ustase collected the eyes of Serbs they killed, sending them to the Poglavnik (Fuhrer) of his inspection or proudly displaying them and other human organs in the cafes of Zagreb. Even their German and Italian allies were dismayed at their excesses.

The cruelty of the Croatians is unbelievable. In the concentration camp at Jasenovac, it is estimated amount of people killed runs from 200,000 to 800,000. It didn't have the gas chambers and smoking ovens of Auschwitz, but it hardly needed them. The Ustasi murdered the inmates by more "efficient" methods: setting them afire, by poles, cutting them to pieces, by sledgehammers, by boots. Some survivors of the camps, described those methods:

We slept in mud. Whoever found a piece of wood board to lay on felt like a king.... The Ustasi would laugh while they hit the prisoners and would compete with one another to see who could do it the fastest, The prisoners could not contain their pain and would shriek like animals...Once a group of ten young Upstate guards came. We saw that they had just joined up. They came from Bosnia. They were young people and knew absolutely nothing about Jews . They began to ask us who we were and why we were imprisoned. After a couple of months...one member of this group boasted...that he killed the Jews with a piece of wood three centimeters long. He sharpened it on both ends and drove it into their mouths.

I dont think you can kill a minimum of 200.000 people with no civilian help. Holocaust denial is rampant there and it wasnt until its recent cooperation with the Holocaust Museum and Yad Vachem that the general Croatian public is even accepting of what happened..

[minibadger 1]

Okay, stop. No more disgusting holocaust posts for you. It's never been part of the conversation and you bring it up over and over. It doesn't apply and you're mischaracterizing the things you're reading. If you see things like "Hitler set up a puppet regime" in your own links, you should sort of recognize that it wasn't the Croatian people being some sort of brutal savages. What you keep doing regarding this issue borders on outright hatred and slander of a people.

I'm not particularly sure how proper it is for you to be telling a native person who lived through the experience what exactly happened in WW2. No one here is denying that there were camps, or that there were genocides happening within the country and the entire Balkan region. But I find it very suspicious to be lumping all Croatians in with the regime that committed those crimes. Just as we can't really say all Americans or even most were responsible for the Iraq war, we most certainly shouldn't be able to say that an unelected monarch and his supporters represent a country; especially considering that the native people of the country itself by and large fought against the regime, overthrowing it in only two years as they fought the Nazis. Ever since that day there has been mass anger at the regime and period of history. The fact that a country's President will not apologize does not mean the country itself is not apologetic. Again, we should know that better than ever to look at Bush. If you look at actual actions, that regime and its ideals is abhorred and even outlawed.

I don't know what you'd see as an "apology from Croatia" other than something like reparations or affirmative action; things which Croatia can't really afford financially. And when most Croatians were fighting against all those things, I don't see how they should apologize for not winning faster, so long as they don't hide the fact that it happened, which they don't. But they certainly don't see it as something their PEOPLE did, because by and large, they did not.

To say that the actions of a small minority constitutes an entire country is not very fair and seems a bit hypocritical. Yes, there were those Croatians who really did support the regime. But they were so few compared to those who did not, and even those who fought and soon overthrew it. Please stop labeling entire countries by the actions far fewer took than those who were very heroic. The posts you've made have sounded very hateful and skewed toward an entire people, and that's the sort of thing we shouldn't see on these forums.

As for the other things you said, yes, as a naturally-born American, and as a human being, I know that being nice and positive to others makes everything a lot easier. I know that being appreciative of everything in life, no matter what country it's from is easier, too. But you must realize that not everyone feels the need to make friends or go out of their way not to offend anyone. And different people have different standards they're happy with. That doesn't make them unAmerican, it makes them part of the spectrum of human behavior.

The great thing about America's founding values is that you are free to express yourself at the price of being unpopular or even disliked, and a free marketplace of ideas is more or less embraced. As long as we do not physically hurt each other or discriminate, it works, and people can accept their own consequences. We do a good job of making this work in America, in my opinion.

It's my right to be more critical of nations, including my own, than others, and to be vocal, even if it means offending those who wish to see no wrong around them. But that's me acting as a person and accepting responsibility for that behavior and its consequences. Since my family has been in America for generations and we don't think in terms of Here or There, I can't really be accused of having these views because I'm foreign =p This applies to the original post, because so much of the feelings expressed here are just human nature and have nothing to do with a person being from abroad.

Personal responsibiilty ahoy! We should end this thread here. And please, no more posts about wars.

Edited November 28, 2008 by minibadger

[Badgerella 5]

After conquering Yugoslavia in 1941, Hitler set up a puppet government in the deeply Catholic Croatia.

You said it yourself, there. If conquered, how would it be Croatia being run by Croatians? Or perhaps what is needed is a lesson in vocabulary and semantics.

Either way, before I am seriously gone from this thread, and quite possibly the forum as well, I'll ask once more -

Is there a moderator who could lock this thread, edit out the nationalist or otherwise offensive and/or insulting comments and videos and perhaps warn and instruct the forum members to behave and post in a civilized way?

It would be greatly appreciated.

[*Snowdrop* 604]

I still think that people getting to immigrate here are very lucky even if they do not choose to acknowledge that. The USA despite its faults provides more opportunity to people from all backgrounds. How many black presidents are in the Schengen? With a single mom no less and his wife is from a modest background as well. And as much as you might not believe it, in my neck of the woods, if someone gets off the plane and acts unhappy or ungrateful to be here thinking that this place is not all that, she may be FREE to say that but she sure as hell wont be popular at work or with fellow Americans. I don't know too many people who live here as natives that are real thrilled with people bashing our country. The ones who do the best embrace the good here, fight hard to take every opportunity that comes and do not act superior in any way. How do I know? I work with immigrants and help them and I can see a clear difference between people who feel entitled. Its helps to be nice to Americans. If you are happy to be here and see the good, we are happy to have you.

Why can't you accept or at least understand that just because someone doesn't think America is the best country in the world that it doesn't mean they are 'bashing' your country.

I am grateful for the chance of living with my husband but I don't feel that living in the US is any better for me than living in the UK. I would be just as happy to live in France, Germany, Brazil, Australia, New Zealand (actually I would be REALLY happy to live in New Zealand). I would be so happy just to stay here in the UK if my husband could be with me. Right now that's not possible for us so we are starting our married life in the US.

I don't feel 'lucky to immigrate to the US' as you put it. I feel lucky to have found this wonderful man and lucky to be nearing the end of our immigration journey. I'm going to make the most of our time in the US - whether that is 4, 14 or 40 years. There are some wonderful places to visit and I'm sure I'm going to love my experience there, I would never be disrespectful about my spouse's homeland but for me it's not any better than my home country.

And as far as being unpopular with American friends, co-workers and family if I am not overjoyed at being here (as you claim) - in my case you are completely wrong. Most people I have met in the US would love to live in my country and ask my why we don't want to live there.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Took place this year in Croatia with over 60,000 in attendance

From the American professor responsible for the establishment of the new museum

Interesting Site about the massacres in Croatia

Interesting site on the children of the death camp

I still think that people getting to immigrate here are very lucky even if they do not choose to acknowledge that. The USA despite its faults provides more opportunity to people from all backgrounds. How many black presidents are in the Schengen? With a single mom no less and his wife is from a modest background as well. And as much as you might not believe it, in my neck of the woods, if someone gets off the plane and acts unhappy or ungrateful to be here thinking that this place is not all that, she may be FREE to say that but she sure as hell wont be popular at work or with fellow Americans. I don't know too many people who live here as natives that are real thrilled with people bashing our country. The ones who do the best embrace the good here, fight hard to take every opportunity that comes and do not act superior in any way. How do I know? I work with immigrants and help them and I can see a clear difference between people who feel entitled. Its helps to be nice to Americans. If you are happy to be here and see the good, we are happy to have you.

Why can't you accept or at least understand that just because someone doesn't think America is the best country in the world that it doesn't mean they are 'bashing' your country.

I am grateful for the chance of living with my husband but I don't feel that living in the US is any better for me than living in the UK. I would be just as happy to live in France, Germany, Brazil, Australia, New Zealand (actually I would be REALLY happy to live in New Zealand). I would be so happy just to stay here in the UK if my husband could be with me. Right now that's not possible for us so we are starting our married life in the US.

I don't feel 'lucky to immigrate to the US' as you put it. I feel lucky to have found this wonderful man and lucky to be nearing the end of our immigration journey. I'm going to make the most of our time in the US - whether that is 4, 14 or 40 years. There are some wonderful places to visit and I'm sure I'm going to love my experience there, I would never be disrespectful about my spouse's homeland but for me it's not any better than my home country.

And as far as being unpopular with American friends, co-workers and family if I am not overjoyed at being here (as you claim) - in my case you are completely wrong. Most people I have met in the US would love to live in my country and ask my why we don't want to live there.

I accept what you are saying. It is a little troubling but I guess we have to accept that along with welcoming people here, we have to accept that they may not think that this is the best place they could live in the world.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Took place this year in Croatia with over 60,000 in attendance

From the American professor responsible for the establishment of the new museum

Interesting Site about the massacres in Croatia

Interesting site on the children of the death camp

I still think that people getting to immigrate here are very lucky even if they do not choose to acknowledge that. The USA despite its faults provides more opportunity to people from all backgrounds. How many black presidents are in the Schengen? With a single mom no less and his wife is from a modest background as well. And as much as you might not believe it, in my neck of the woods, if someone gets off the plane and acts unhappy or ungrateful to be here thinking that this place is not all that, she may be FREE to say that but she sure as hell wont be popular at work or with fellow Americans. I don't know too many people who live here as natives that are real thrilled with people bashing our country. The ones who do the best embrace the good here, fight hard to take every opportunity that comes and do not act superior in any way. How do I know? I work with immigrants and help them and I can see a clear difference between people who feel entitled. Its helps to be nice to Americans. If you are happy to be here and see the good, we are happy to have you.

Why can't you accept or at least understand that just because someone doesn't think America is the best country in the world that it doesn't mean they are 'bashing' your country.

I am grateful for the chance of living with my husband but I don't feel that living in the US is any better for me than living in the UK. I would be just as happy to live in France, Germany, Brazil, Australia, New Zealand (actually I would be REALLY happy to live in New Zealand). I would be so happy just to stay here in the UK if my husband could be with me. Right now that's not possible for us so we are starting our married life in the US.

I don't feel 'lucky to immigrate to the US' as you put it. I feel lucky to have found this wonderful man and lucky to be nearing the end of our immigration journey. I'm going to make the most of our time in the US - whether that is 4, 14 or 40 years. There are some wonderful places to visit and I'm sure I'm going to love my experience there, I would never be disrespectful about my spouse's homeland but for me it's not any better than my home country.

And as far as being unpopular with American friends, co-workers and family if I am not overjoyed at being here (as you claim) - in my case you are completely wrong. Most people I have met in the US would love to live in my country and ask my why we don't want to live there.

I accept what you are saying. It is a little troubling but I guess we have to accept that along with welcoming people here, we have to accept that they may not think that this is the best place they could live in the world.

wrong link

http://www.jasenovac-info.com/cd/galerija/...2/index_en.html

[*Snowdrop* 604]

I accept what you are saying. It is a little troubling but I guess we have to accept that along with welcoming people here, we have to accept that they may not think that this is the best place they could live in the world.

Why on earth is this troubling???? You mentioned in an earlier post that you had lived in other countries - did you always think that the country you lived in at the time was the best in the world???

What is wrong with an immigrant still prefering their home country - especially if the reason they came was to be with a loved one. It doesn't mean they don't like and respect their spouse's country.

Edited November 28, 2008 by lsma

[minibadger 1]

Please, for dignity's sake, STOP posting random disgusting Holocaust materials. They do NOT apply to ANYTHING and are HATEFUL and WRONG.

You're not even taking time to read or find the context in the things you're posting. This behavior DOES NOT BELONG HERE. Please understand that your opinions are not facts, and are not the end-all of truth in this world on ANY topic!

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I still think that people getting to immigrate here are very lucky even if they do not choose to acknowledge that. The USA despite its faults provides more opportunity to people from all backgrounds. How many black presidents are in the Schengen? With a single mom no less and his wife is from a modest background as well. And as much as you might not believe it, in my neck of the woods, if someone gets off the plane and acts unhappy or ungrateful to be here thinking that this place is not all that, she may be FREE to say that but she sure as hell wont be popular at work or with fellow Americans. I don't know too many people who live here as natives that are real thrilled with people bashing our country. The ones who do the best embrace the good here, fight hard to take every opportunity that comes and do not act superior in any way. How do I know? I work with immigrants and help them and I can see a clear difference between people who feel entitled. Its helps to be nice to Americans. If you are happy to be here and see the good, we are happy to have you.

Why can't you accept or at least understand that just because someone doesn't think America is the best country in the world that it doesn't mean they are 'bashing' your country.

I am grateful for the chance of living with my husband but I don't feel that living in the US is any better for me than living in the UK. I would be just as happy to live in France, Germany, Brazil, Australia, New Zealand (actually I would be REALLY happy to live in New Zealand). I would be so happy just to stay here in the UK if my husband could be with me. Right now that's not possible for us so we are starting our married life in the US.

I don't feel 'lucky to immigrate to the US' as you put it. I feel lucky to have found this wonderful man and lucky to be nearing the end of our immigration journey. I'm going to make the most of our time in the US - whether that is 4, 14 or 40 years. There are some wonderful places to visit and I'm sure I'm going to love my experience there, I would never be disrespectful about my spouse's homeland but for me it's not any better than my home country.

And as far as being unpopular with American friends, co-workers and family if I am not overjoyed at being here (as you claim) - in my case you are completely wrong. Most people I have met in the US would love to live in my country and ask my why we don't want to live there.

I doubt that if you stated things exactly like she had in the company of most Americans that they would feel too thrilled to listen to her. You are again missing my point. If its not something you could say freely with a person interviewing you for a cr1 visa, I dont think its something that an average American would freely accept. Go to a consular interview and go on and on about how you dont feel happy to come here and see if you get your visa. I dont think so.. But thats just my opinion, not everyones I guess.