Mormon Church feels the heat over Proposition 8

[Alli and Léo 0]

http://www.newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/en...against-mormons

Catholics in support

[IAMX 3,055]

How is that insecurity?

Insecure white guy whining about blacks in a topic that has nothing to do with blacks. Have a good think about it.

[rclouse 0]

There are lots of stories about Blacks voting for Prop 8 in droves, but the usual suspects don't want to go there. It ain't PC enough. Better to go after mostly White Mormons. They are sexier to beat up on in Lib circles.

BS. This has been reported widely in the MSM and largely discounted. Blacks voted for/against Prop 8 in similar proportion to other ethnic groups.

The reason the LDS church is on the radar is that about half of the $40 million raised for Yes on 8 came from the LDS church and its membership.

Really, what is it about gay marriage that upsets you so much? How can gay marriage hurt your own marriage? Are you afraid your kids will catch the gay from them?

[sereia 0]

I believe he brought it up because blacks overwhelmingly voted YES on prop 8 yet no one is harping on about blacks or protesting at their businesses and churches like they are with LDS members.

There are lots of stories about Blacks voting for Prop 8 in droves, but the usual suspects don't want to go there. It ain't PC enough. Better to go after mostly White Mormons. They are sexier to beat up on in Lib circles.

BS. This has been reported widely in the MSM and largely discounted. Blacks voted for/against Prop 8 in similar proportion to other ethnic groups.

Everything I've read said otherwise. Where can you say it was discounted? It would be nice to know.

ps. I personally do not care if gays marry or not. If this whole thing is about tolerance... where is the tolerance from the gays and their supporters for what other people believe? I have respect for LDS members who put their money where their mouth is to stand up for something they believe is important for them. I may not agree with what they did, but I certainly would not put up a large sign on my house saying "** Mormons" or throw things at them.

Edited November 21, 2008 by Sheherazade

[IAMX 3,055]

I believe he brought it up because blacks overwhelmingly voted YES on prop 8 yet no one is harping on about blacks or protesting at their businesses and churches like they are with LDS members.

Blacks had little to no swagger in terms of Prop 8 coming to fruition, nor did they have the majority say in vote either. To complain about blacks is to really have a strange agenda. It was religious people, mostly backed from the Mormon church, that caused this. This is attacking the root of the problem, not whining about other nonsense that peejay clearly likes crying about.

[sereia 0]

Okay blacks are not a huge part of the vote, but neither are Mormons! What percent of Mormon voters are there in CA? It can't possibly be very high... Mormons had the money to donate to the cause, but how many people really change their mind because some guy waves a sign "YES ON 8" on the street corner or sends you a letter telling you to vote for it?

[IAMX 3,055]

Even if Mormons did not constitute the majority, try paying attention to who were the main reason it came to fruition on the ballot. This was orchestrated by the MORMON church, and their flier shows the main premise of pinning religious people against gays. Read the OP for further evidence. The attack on Mormons here is more than justified.

[sereia 0]

I guess I just feel bad because a close friend of mine is LDS. I know her and her family, and I know they are really good people. Good people with beliefs they really believe is the true word of G-d. They just really believe that it is wrong and they were all willing to put in the effort to make sure their beliefs were heard. I don't believe they wanted to "hurt" anyone, to hurt their businesses, to vandalize, etc. To them it was just keeping the sanctity of marriage the way they believe is true from G-d. We may all think they're wrong, but think about their point of view. If you had grown up from the minute you were born to believe something was a certain way and that G-d said it was so??

I just don't think anyone is looking at it from the religious person's shoes. They just point fingers and say how hateful and intolerance they are. I try to see things from where everyone was coming from.

But when it gets angry like it has now...I just feel bad for everyone.

Edited November 21, 2008 by Sheherazade

[MichelleN 0]

We may all think they're wrong, but think about their point of view. If you had grown up from the minute you were born to believe something was a certain way and that G-d said it was so??

I was raised Southern Baptist. I was told a whole set of beliefs were true. But as I grew older I developed a wonderful thing called free thinking. I looked at what was told to me. I looked at the religion and at the world around me and decided for myself what I felt was right. Some things I now disagree with the church on and some I still agree with. But none of what I agree with is based on discrimination and forcing my religious beliefs onto the lives of others. I feel no sympathy for the Mormon church because they clearly crossed the line between religion and politics. It's one thing for a religious person to feel and vote in a certain way. It's another entirely for their church officials to tell them to feel and vote in a certain way.

[peejay 327]

Even if Mormons did not constitute the majority, try paying attention to who were the main reason it came to fruition on the ballot. This was orchestrated by the MORMON church, and their flier shows the main premise of pinning religious people against gays. Read the OP for further evidence. The attack on Mormons here is more than justified.

Gee, I bet the Mormons really wish they had so much power. Attack people for exercising their rights in a democratic society? Oh, my! I guess every radical movement has to have their scapegoats, villians, and enemies to crush. But the fact remains that homosexual marriage and plural marriage is not culturally acceptable to the vast majority of America. Unfortunately there are those that wish to shove it down our throats by any means they deem necessary.

[MichelleN 0]

Even if Mormons did not constitute the majority, try paying attention to who were the main reason it came to fruition on the ballot. This was orchestrated by the MORMON church, and their flier shows the main premise of pinning religious people against gays. Read the OP for further evidence. The attack on Mormons here is more than justified.

Gee, I bet the Mormons really wish they had so much power. Attack people for exercising their rights in a democratic society? Oh, my! I guess every radical movement has to have their scapegoats, villians, and enemies to crush. But the fact remains that homosexual marriage and plural marriage is not culturally acceptable to the vast majority of America. Unfortunately there are those that wish to shove it down our throats by any means they deem necessary.

If everything in this country was determined by what's culturally acceptable women and blacks wouldn't be able to vote. We'd still have 'white only' drinking fountains and segregated schools. And interracial marriages would still be illegal.

The fact is, America isn't a democracy. A democracy would be five wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner. America is a constitutional republic. A good quote that essentially describes what this means is:

"the United States relies on representative democracy, but [its] system of government is much more complex than that. [it is] not a simple representative democracy, but a constitutional republic in which majority rule is tempered by minority rights protected by law."

[IAMX 3,055]

It would have been very simple. Live and let live. These people could have kept their beliefs, gays would have kept their right of marriage, and we wouldn't be having this backlash. I'm personally very tired of ####### like this being front and center, while California is in an economic crisis. However, to me, rights > economic issues. The only thing these people are doing is, by trying to force their beliefs upon gays, screwing California out of attention to economic issues that are sorely needed.

For instance, we're spending billions on solar plants, and now going to spend some $40+ billion on a rail system. At the same time, we will still need infrastructure addressed as it will get worse in the next 5 years, never mind 20 or so to build the rail system.

Even if Mormons did not constitute the majority, try paying attention to who were the main reason it came to fruition on the ballot. This was orchestrated by the MORMON church, and their flier shows the main premise of pinning religious people against gays. Read the OP for further evidence. The attack on Mormons here is more than justified.

Gee, I bet the Mormons really wish they had so much power. Attack people for exercising their rights in a democratic society? Oh, my! I guess every radical movement has to have their scapegoats, villians, and enemies to crush. But the fact remains that homosexual marriage and plural marriage is not culturally acceptable to the vast majority of America. Unfortunately there are those that wish to shove it down our throats by any means they deem necessary.

So your suggestion is a Democratic society is one that eliminates rights of others? I just wonder what IS your idea of a Democracy? If you care to recall, sexuality is as much a protected status as gender and race. It doesn't matter how many people want to vote to overturn a right, the tyranny of the majority do not take away the rights of a minority, and these rights do not infringe on yours in the slightest bit. This is part of the "Democracy" which you want to blatantly ignore in your espousing of simply "voting" on things as Democratic. So please, save me your pointless diatribe and hapless moaning about the big bad gays taking away your right to enforce your belief upon them.

[peejay 327]

It would have been very simple. Live and let live. These people could have kept their beliefs, gays would have kept their right of marriage, and we wouldn't be having this backlash. I'm personally very tired of ####### like this being front and center, while California is in an economic crisis. However, to me, rights > economic issues. The only thing these people are doing is, by trying to force their beliefs upon gays, screwing California out of attention to economic issues that are sorely needed.

For instance, we're spending billions on solar plants, and now going to spend some $40+ billion on a rail system. At the same time, we will still need infrastructure addressed as it will get worse in the next 5 years, never mind 20 or so to build the rail system.

Even if Mormons did not constitute the majority, try paying attention to who were the main reason it came to fruition on the ballot. This was orchestrated by the MORMON church, and their flier shows the main premise of pinning religious people against gays. Read the OP for further evidence. The attack on Mormons here is more than justified.

Gee, I bet the Mormons really wish they had so much power. Attack people for exercising their rights in a democratic society? Oh, my! I guess every radical movement has to have their scapegoats, villians, and enemies to crush. But the fact remains that homosexual marriage and plural marriage is not culturally acceptable to the vast majority of America. Unfortunately there are those that wish to shove it down our throats by any means they deem necessary.

So your suggestion is a Democratic society is one that eliminates rights of others? I just wonder what IS your idea of a Democracy? If you care to recall, sexuality is as much a protected status as gender and race. It doesn't matter how many people want to vote to overturn a right, the tyranny of the majority do not take away the rights of a minority, and these rights do not infringe on yours in the slightest bit. This is part of the "Democracy" which you want to blatantly ignore in your espousing of simply "voting" on things as Democratic. So please, save me your pointless diatribe and hapless moaning about the big bad gays taking away your right to enforce your belief upon them.

Societies always have and always will determine what is cultually acceptable and desirable. If societies catered to every so called minority by lowering the bar, in the end there would be no standards at all. If someone deems sex with 8 year olds is normal just cuz someone wants to do it and the 8 year old doesn't object then that becomes acceptable to a society? No, catering to a minority isn't necessarily a right nor is it desirable. Societi

[IAMX 3,055]

Societies always have and always will determine what is cultually acceptable and desirable. If societies catered to every so called minority by lowering the bar, in the end there would be no standards at all. If someone deems sex with 8 year olds is normal just cuz someone wants to do it and the 8 year old doesn't object then that becomes acceptable to a society? No, catering to a minority isn't necessarily a right nor is it desirable. Societi

Last I checked, pedophilia is not a sexual orientation, and thus not a protected status along with race and gender. You know what pedophilia is called in this argument? Red herring.

And if society suddenly decided to go back to slavery, because it was socially desirable, that would be struck down too. Evidently you don't seem to grasp that socially "acceptable" things have limits too under this Constitution. Those limits end at the Constitutional rights of ANY individual. Marriage being a right, is no different. Maybe you also don't understand that the point of a Democracy is not only governmental checks and balances, but "societal" checks and balances, to prevent the tyranny of the majority against the minority. The good thing about the Constitution is it's not like your bible that you can just pick and choose which parts you want to read and go by. All of the Constitution applies.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I don't get the hysteria over this topic, I really don't. Homosexuality is not some shameful "in the closet" thing to be ashamed of - certainly not in the way it was in the 50's.

So the comparisons to pedos, goat lovers and what have you are just laughable.

Its the tired old slippery slope argument - with nothing behind it to justify the fear.