True Love or "Abuse" Fraud? (Long Story)

[Eagleeye 1]

You are torn between three women! they will wear you out and turnaround and blame you.Follow your heart and make your pick

[Valsu 1]

What a sad, sad story. Your wife did not have fraud in mind, it is clear to me. Sad to say, your story suggests also that you did not have in mind the full responsibility of a Christian marriage partnership. Nothing happens in that marriage except when it is your will. Whoever heard of taping conversations except as a way to control people? What spouse knows how much cash the other carries at any given time? You may be a micromanager at work (perhaps for good reason) but you can't micromanage a marriage. A slave expects to be micromanaged, treated like a robot, and I suppose that's why she used that word.

Now you seem to understand the emotional side of a miscarriage, but where was your mother/advisor when that happened? Private school tuition versus the fee for a fertility test? You've invested in a local business already? Marrying immediately was a great idea, for then it would be possible to get going with the EAD and AOS. Why didn't the applications get submitted right away, as in first things first?

The whole act of hunting down your wife is also questionable, and one more evidence of your wish to be in control of everything around you.

As someone else observed, you need to get your priorities straight for the sake of your kids, your wife, and your own well-being. No doubt your pastor would agree.

Of course, I've given all of these things thought--but only after all the dust settled. Many things I did not notice while overwhelmed with my work. You will review this as an excuse, but fact be known, if I don't correct every complaint with our vendor services in a timely manner, we will start losing business--which means no revenue; no profit; no job--which leads to inability to pay bills; have a home; have food; survive; etc. If I don't keep up with my work's responsibilties, over 400 other people will also be at risk of losing their jobs--since their jobs are contract specific. That's just the fact, plain and simple. Due to these things, I stay preoccupied a lot of times, and fail to see anything beyond practicality.

Now that I've taken time off to re-evaluate my priorities, I've been able to uncover all of my follies and openly admit to them. In light of that, however, my mother was only trying to protect herself--not control my wife with the recording. You might do the same if you were being blamed for things you're not guilty of. Also, I will tell you what kind of spouses knows what the other spouse is carrying at any time--it's called a marriage with a tight budget. People with a great deal of money don't understand surviving week to week. We spent our savings to get the house my "wife" truly wanted, and then we have been stuck on a tight budget since. Each time we get ahead, an unexpected turn hits us and digs into our savings again. Although, the real reason I knew how much money she had was because she showed me the inside of her purse before she left--so she could prove she wasn't stealing anything. Also, she has full access to all of our accounts and finances and can use them at any time.

The AOS/EAD didn't get done right away because when I returned home, I didn't have a job to go back to. I have survived as long as I have as a single father with two children by playing smart, rather than taking out of the ordinary risks. Our time and energies went into getting my new job and our new home in the begining. We seriously did not even have the time to invest in sitting down and doing all of the paperwork documentation, let alone being able to afford it.

As for the private school, my children were already in private school. It's not like I chose them over her, but I simply put them "back" into the same school after their summer vacation. My children getting a solid Christian education is one of the most important decisions I felt I had made for them, and they are so much more intelligent and well behaved because of it. Already, they've come home and told me of the 8 year olds at their public school who have cigarettes and drugs on them, and has offered it to them. You wonder why our nation is in the condition it's in, and 999 times out of 1000, it goes back to upbringing and education. My children are 9 (boy) and 6(girl) by the way.

As for our local business, we didn't invest anything financially. I used my credit and helped the owner obtain his business lease, credits, and setups, etc.; and did all of the paperwork to help him get started. He bought the business, and I just did all the work making it happen for him. As a result, we became part owners in that endeavor. I fully intend to branch it out at a later time, however, and then we will invest into it financially.

As for hunting down my wife, you're darn straight, and I would do it again! I love my wife, and to see some strangers that neither she or I have ever met pick her up, and then not hear from her again, of course I am going to try to find her. What kind of husband would sit home and pretend his wife is not missing and do nothing about it? Obviously one who doesn't love his wife. Am I wrong for wanting to repair our relationship, or discover if she is alive and well? At the same time to be abandoned in the middle of a visa process is also questionable, and I also needed to think about the wellbeing of my children. Not to mention the people who collected her ended up living in downtown in what we all refer as "drug avenue"--one of the most dangerous places for any solo female to be--especially one as beautiful as herself (women walk in groups of 4+ on those streets). I went to the other ends of the planet to find my amazing wife, and would it now be beneath me to scout a a measly city and knock on doors and businesses searching for my beloved? I love her more now than I ever did, and I would swim to the bottom of the ocean if I knew she was there. Wanting to love and protect your wife is not control, and from the looks of things, and my faults alone, I obviously had little control over anything at all. If anything, I should have taken more control--of myself, that is.

Either way, thanks for challenging me with your thoughts. It's much appreciated!

[Valsu 1]

Oh boy...she sounds very...very...very...very depressed. I think the way you write and the language you use is very useful actually because it makes the entire situation quite a lot easier to analyze.

Depression is designed not to make any sense to anyone! So is grief. Depression and grief combined can be a maddening combination, and I think even more maddening when you are from a different country and perhaps not quite as articulate in English as you or I. That would make your feelings that much more difficult to express, and keeping them inside would more than likely result in just the type of explosive situation you describe.

Now I do have some comments on the child loss front, from a female point of view. Now, we recently lost our full term daughter Josie to a devastating and life threatening (for me - she was gone already) placental abruption before birth. Putting all the physically destructive after effects aside, the emotional aftermath of losing that life force - be it a full term baby or just the spark of life or what you thought was life can be just overwhelming. Comparing a stillbirth to a miscarriage might be a stretch for some, but I can totally see it.

You wife thought she had life in her. For a woman, that is an incredibly powerful feeling kind of like having the sun rise inside your soul - enormous and wonderful. She felt like a goddess - full of creation. I felt like that - it didn't take long - just a few days, for that feeling to set in for real and then, for most, pregnancy is just incredible. It's indescribable and deeply touching on a psychological level just being pregnant.

Then, suddenly, it's gone. The life has been snuffed out - be it big or little. Now your wife is not only dealing with a the fact that the life has been extinguished, but also told that it never had been and therefore she had no real reason to grieve. Wow - headspin! So, what's being told to her is that essentially, she is useless and unable to produce life even while pregnant That'd send her into total hatred at herself (and an easy vehicle she is then, for depression) and lead her to totally mistrust her body. How could you love her - she would say - if she couldn't even produce life? So trying to get you to throw her out would be symptomatic of a depression and desperate mistrust in herself - she wanted you to validate her hatred of herself and say "Yes! I agree you're useless - leave now!" Though - it's very hard to get that, if she looks physically healthy. you wouldn't have known soon enough to be able to help her figure out what she was feeling.

Of course, she's not useless - she's perfectly capable of making life and lovely (though she minght also be worried if she's in her 30's and wants to have kids soon). She is however confused, depressed and probably really lonely. The MIL situation was difficult for her for two reasons I'd guess: not only was she there and in many ways in the way of your relationship as a couple (that is inevitable no matter how well you get along, many times), but also you MIL wouldn't let her be depressed. As a depressed person, I would say she only had enough energy to sit and do nothing (hence the long times in the restroom or bedroom) and be boring! Mentally, both normal grief (over her miscarriage) and depression are terribly mentally draining. You get mental fatigue very quickly. You can't cope with much of anything. If nobody is recognizing what it is you're going through, they will assume you are not pulling your weight...not so.

There's so much more to this - I have to make some tea now but I think perhaps I'll come back a little later as well. Hope the above made sense. Personally after the death of Josie I was absolutely determined to not be depressed, and I am not - but I have been before, and it was awful. That's why I knew I did not want depression in my life as a result of our stillbirth. But, grief has many of the same symptoms too, and we've been grieving for sure.

You sound like a really nice guy. I do hope you can come to understand more about how she might be feeling - because she sounds like a really nice lady, and I am so sad she's feeling so sad. I hope she does come back and that you can hold her, because if I were in your shoes, I know that's what I'd be wanting to do at this stage. (F)

Thank you for helping me understand the differences between depression and grief. After her absence, I have sincerely come to understand her feelings and needs greater than I had ever imagined before. If she comes home, she'll become one of the luckiest women on earth, because she'll be treated more diligently by me than even a queen.

I look forward to her arrival with all anticipation.

[Valsu 1]

If I were in your shoes:

1. Prepare the AOS paperwork and have it ready for her to sign when she comes home. File it immediately upon her return. If you would take a bullet for her then why not file for the AOS.

2. Find your mother another place to live. You give good reasons for her to be there but your spouse will never really feel like it's her home as long as your Mother is living there.

3. Take the lead in caring for your children.

4. Allow her time to heal.

From what I have read in your post, this is not visa fraud in my opinion. She is getting bad advise from well intentioned people who are only getting one side of the story.

I hope it all works out for you.

1. She took the paperwork. I plan to put it together, though, the moment she walks through that front door!

2. Already done. I discussed this with my mother days ago, and we have both agreed it's not going to work with her here. We are working to find her another place to live right away. I honestly don't think my wife will mind helping her move either.

3. Yes, I have heeded that advice and plan to take it. I have already adjusted my hours with work so I can be at home no later than 5pm everyday to do just that.

4. Absolutely. I now understand her, and what is going on. I have many plans to help with the healing process that I have been counselled on.

Also, I agree whole heartedly. I do not think she is going to do anything fraudulently anymore. Before listening to everyone here, I was just confused, and wanted to protect my family in the event that "might" have been her intention.

[jom 4]

My wife Myla insisted that I read your post.

I am sorry this has happened but there is always hope. Now that you actually saw your follies you can do better when she returns and I pray she will. I may add though that for now, your biggest concern is learning where she is and that she is safe there BUT if she is not ready to be with you again, don't force her. She is still emotionally confused with everything going on. She may have her own faults but maybe being by herself in her new place will help her figure out what to do next. From your story, her concerns are more of the "situations" ( mother-in-law,no AOS,no work, alone in the house, boredom, ) and not you as a person so these issues can be rectified and made better .

Our prayers are with you.

Joe

[Thai family 0]

If she comes home, she'll become one of the luckiest women on earth, because she'll be treated more diligently by me than even a queen.

I look forward to her arrival with all anticipation.

______________________

No, you'll be the luckiest man on earth since she gave you another chance.

Leave, cleave and weave. That's all I learned in my marriage counseling class. Our marriage would have never made it with one of our mothers in the picture day-to-day. I've been telling my son that I'm willing to help with the immigration process, and I'm happy to show hospitality, but they need to do everything else themselves for the sake of their relationship. Your very sad story reinforces that. I hope it turns out well for both of you.

Thai Mom

Edited November 21, 2008 by Thai family

[Valsu 1]

I would also plan to back off a bit. The situation you describe might be interpreted as very close to servitude and your post-fallout actions fall very close to the definition of stalking, in spite of your elequent excuses and rationalizations for doing so. This is just from perusing YOUR side which does not take your wife's feelings into account at all. I have sympathy for both of you but at the same time I do not think a reasonable person would interpret your decision making in the train of events you described as being in the best interests of a shared marriage.

Fraud goes (2) ways, if you represented yourself and your life together as something different than your wife's actual experience could that be a form of fraud? ARRIVING here is only a fraction of the immigration process, and it sounds like, from what YOU say, she did her part and more. Assuring your wife a minimum quality of life once she got here is still your responsibility and in that she has been let down hard and badly.

IF this were my sister or one of my daughters I think I would expect you to honor her wishes and leave her alone if she wanted to be left alone. If you were still stalking her I think you would be encouraged (with prejudice) to give her time to get herself together. Sorry dude for your loss it sounds like the signs were all there and there were a few chances to stop, back away, and regroup along the path. Lots of guys lose someone they care about because they are controlling, insensitive, and can't cut their umbilical cord (not pointing fingers or judging just musing that things like that can happen).

I was actually very detailed about what life here would be like, and blantantly honest about it. I didn't want her to have any surprises. Even the job situation, we knew aforehand, because they called me while I was in the Philippines with her. We had already mentally prepared for me finding new work. The difference is that knowing something by word is not the same as dealing with it in action. She was not ready for what she jumped in to, and I overestimated her perseverence by far. I know it's my fault, being the more experienced one, and I have admitted to that. Now, I just hope she gives me the chance to reuild what's been broken down.

"Umbilical cord" cutting is when a grown individual goes to live with his parents and mooch off of them. Not when said individual gives one of his parents a temporary place to stay while they get back onto their feet. Not to mention, my mother living with us was "my wife's" idea--they were best friends in the begining. I even told them I didn't think it would work, but would try if they were willing. My wife assured me that she was use to family, because she lived with her own mother, and 7 siblings her whole life, and would have no problem with just a single mother. I took her word on that, and there were NO problems between either of them for 8 straight months. Their problems only started over the past two months, and my wife unreasonably wanted me to kick my mother to the curb without any preparation or notice--not taking into consideration what that entails. Naturally, my mother received it as my wife being selfish and only thinking of herself.

Either way, the time apart has been fruitful, and I have learned so many ways I can improve myself for my wife. I know I am not perfect, but I can try my best to be as close to perfect as possible for the sake of my marriage and my wife's happiness.

[Valsu 1]

No offense here but Filipinas are very family oriented and care for families and familes mean everything to them then why is everyone telling him to get his mother out of the house instead of working around it. Thats not the same advice those Filipinas give when its their family in question..

I know I am probably going to be hammered for this one

I have now perceived this proposed characteristic as a selling point for filipinas to the westerners. Truth is, american families are not filipino families. This oversight is what caused me to not be as understanding as I should have been.

[Valsu 1]

So after reading your whole post, I'm being lazy and not reading 3 pages of comments so I hope I'm not repeating or anything.

My opinion as a professional woman who is very much looking forward to having children (though I'm the USC, so not quite your wife's position) is that she's suffering from some sort of breakdown, but not fraud. You said she NEEDS to work and not be at home with kids. I'm the same way. I could do stuff around the house for so long, but if after 10 months I still hadn't even FILED for my work permit, I would consider not doing anything even without all the other stuff going on. I would expect my husband (if the situation was flipped) to do ANYTHING to get me my AOS started ASAP. Yes, life does get in the way, but sometimes some things just need to come first and I think she started to feel like you weren't doing this for her, especially if you were away a lot and couldn't reassure her. Add on top of all this that she also lost a baby and clearly is having a very tough time (as has already been brought up) I think she was ripe for something to break.

In addition if she's started talking with a group that could be encouraging her to leave or telling her that there is no reason for you not having filed the AOS except to keep her as a slave, she could start getting a skewed view of what's going on. Because let's face it, some women do come here and their spouse never files for their work permit or allow them to work. These people she's become chummy with have probably seen that happen and their brains automatically goes to that possibility. I think this was just a perfect storm of too many factors combining.

Regardless of what happens, at some point you will get the chance to talk to her face-to-face. Be prepared. In addition, I would leave messages with anyone I could to convince her of what you've realized and are ready to change. Tell her sister, her family, your pastor, anyone she might contact. Leave messages giving exact details and dates on her e-mail, yahoo etc. You need a specific plan, not just "oh, I'll change". After that though, I'd leave it. The ball is in her court now and doing too much is over-kill.

I do think meeting with the lawyer is a good idea. Regardless of what you put in, you don't know where her head is at and she may not be willing to come back to the marriage. You need to be prepared to protect you and your children. Keep all evidence that there was no abuse at hand. I hope and pray that this period in your life will come to an end soon and give all of you peace. Let's hope it comes to an end by your wife coming home! Good luck!!!

I figured that is how she was being influenced. Negative friends lead to negative results and decisions. As for contacts, I am in communication with everyone I know that might be a potential contact for her. I am VERY close to my wife's family, and have been talking with them about the whole situation. So far, her sister is the only person she's made contact with. I have a great friendship with her sister, and therefore this communication layer opens a door for me to pass messages along. In effect, I have also sent a long, detailed message regarding everything, and plans of action I will be taking upon her return to all of her email and messenger accounts. If she gets online in any way, shape, or form, she'll be able to get my message.

My next step is writing a letter by hand, and seeing if mailing it to the shelter she's in would be allowed. They may or may not give it to her.

Anyhow, my ears and heart are wide open for so much as the drop of a needle, awaiting communication from her.

[Valsu 1]

No, you'll be the luckiest man on earth since she gave you another chance.

Leave, cleave and weave. That's all I learned in my marriage counseling class. Our marriage would have never made it with one of our mothers in the picture day-to-day. I've been telling my son that I'm willing to help with the immigration process, and I'm happy to show hospitality, but they need to do everything else themselves for the sake of their relationship. Your very sad story reinforces that. I hope it turns out well for both of you.

Thai Mom

No way, I'm already the luckiest man on earth to have her in my life. If she gives me another chance, it will simply make me the happiest man alive.

I have faith in God that He will mend this marriage situation, as soon as we can talk with each other.

[Valsu 1]

Ok, I have an update for all.

First, I spoke with my wife's sister tonight, and she received a call from my wife. She says she is still in the shelter, but wants to continue her counseling for right now. She tried to convince my wife to call me, and she thought she was going to--but I haven't received a call yet. She said that they were assigning chores for the people in the shelter, and that she was staying busy with different things and activities. She said that communication to the outside were extremely limited, and so she could not really take long to communicate. She also said she is safe where she is.

Well, this was the most amazing news I have heard, and I had a wonderful conversation with her sister, and explained about all of the proactive approaches I am taking to make life acceptable for my wife.

She said if my wife calls her back, she'll explain what I told her and encourage her to call me. I also spoke with my attorney today, and he advised me to get my pastor to contact the shelter (apparently ministers can do this). He said to make it simple, and only relay the message that the husband wants to resolve the issues professionally, and would like to begin communications. It will be up to her whether or not she accepts those terms.

Meanwhile, I am making my mother arrangements to find another place to stay. We have both agreed that she cannot continue to live here and cause any further detriment to our marriage.

My company has allowed me to hire additional help to relieve me of the evening work I was formerly dealing with. I can now work a normal 8-5 like everyone else. I just won't be hiring them in at management level, and hoping for the best.

I have also been granted a 6-month hardship deferment on my mortgage, during which time I only have to pay the interest--allowing me to build up a savings rather quickly. I felt this was the right move, all things considered--not sure how that will affect my credit score though. Since my baby can get her AOS/EAD right away as a result, I honestly can care less.

I have contacted my insurance, and worked out approvable arrangements so we can see specialists right away for our fertility and post traumatic stress syndromes, and each visit will only cost us $35 copay.

I will be seeking marriage counselors next to assist us in rebuilding our foundations and reinforcing what has been learned thus far to prevent this from ever reoccuring.

If my baby comes home, it's going to work this time.

It's just a matter of time now.

[Eshansmommy 2]

I can't tell what your wife's true intentions are, but I can tell you, she sounds very depressed. I can relate a lot to the situation. I am the foreign spouse and stuck at home 24 7, no driver licence, no work permit. I didn't get raised like that, I've always been very active and independent, and to be in the house all the time, it's very depressing and once in a while I go through an emotional breakdown. I just try to remain patient. It's not my husband's fault, but it's just very hard. I sent out the AOS papers today, so hopefully I will be working soon. I don't have any family here, and the 2 friends I have live too far and work full time. Thank God I do get along with my in-laws. And we have a son, and one on the way! I never had a miscarriage, but I know of many, many women who go through a depression after a miscarriage. Esp, being 35 years old, she is probably realizing she may never have a child of her own. I think I would go crazy if I could never have my own children. On top of that, my husband has no career and has been in and out of jobs for the last year which has caused so much stress on me, since I completely rely on him to take care of us. So I can relate a lot to her. If you have no job, no friends, no family, you try to get joy through other stuff, such as buying new furniture, and decorating your house or going shopping, but when finances are hard, and you can't do that, life can be very boring.

I hope she comes back and you can work things out. Good luck! Do you qualify for medicaid, or does she? Or do you think you can afford some therapy, family therapy sessions and at the same time it will do her good to have someone to talk to and empty her heart.

[jom 4]

Ok, I have an update for all.

First, I spoke with my wife's sister tonight, and she received a call from my wife. She says she is still in the shelter, but wants to continue her counseling for right now. She tried to convince my wife to call me, and she thought she was going to--but I haven't received a call yet. She said that they were assigning chores for the people in the shelter, and that she was staying busy with different things and activities. She said that communication to the outside were extremely limited, and so she could not really take long to communicate. She also said she is safe where she is.

Well, this was the most amazing news I have heard, and I had a wonderful conversation with her sister, and explained about all of the proactive approaches I am taking to make life acceptable for my wife.

She said if my wife calls her back, she'll explain what I told her and encourage her to call me. I also spoke with my attorney today, and he advised me to get my pastor to contact the shelter (apparently ministers can do this). He said to make it simple, and only relay the message that the husband wants to resolve the issues professionally, and would like to begin communications. It will be up to her whether or not she accepts those terms.

Meanwhile, I am making my mother arrangements to find another place to stay. We have both agreed that she cannot continue to live here and cause any further detriment to our marriage.

My company has allowed me to hire additional help to relieve me of the evening work I was formerly dealing with. I can now work a normal 8-5 like everyone else. I just won't be hiring them in at management level, and hoping for the best.

I have also been granted a 6-month hardship deferment on my mortgage, during which time I only have to pay the interest--allowing me to build up a savings rather quickly. I felt this was the right move, all things considered--not sure how that will affect my credit score though. Since my baby can get her AOS/EAD right away as a result, I honestly can care less.

I have contacted my insurance, and worked out approvable arrangements so we can see specialists right away for our fertility and post traumatic stress syndromes, and each visit will only cost us $35 copay.

I will be seeking marriage counselors next to assist us in rebuilding our foundations and reinforcing what has been learned thus far to prevent this from ever reoccuring.

If my baby comes home, it's going to work this time.

It's just a matter of time now.

Kudos to you for taking the right direction . Be patient and one step at a time. Now you know she is safe and also doing counseling for herself. Yes it is just a matter of time and patience.

I will be praying for you both when I go to sleep.

[Eshansmommy 2]

Ok, I have an update for all.

First, I spoke with my wife's sister tonight, and she received a call from my wife. She says she is still in the shelter, but wants to continue her counseling for right now. She tried to convince my wife to call me, and she thought she was going to--but I haven't received a call yet. She said that they were assigning chores for the people in the shelter, and that she was staying busy with different things and activities. She said that communication to the outside were extremely limited, and so she could not really take long to communicate. She also said she is safe where she is.

Well, this was the most amazing news I have heard, and I had a wonderful conversation with her sister, and explained about all of the proactive approaches I am taking to make life acceptable for my wife.

She said if my wife calls her back, she'll explain what I told her and encourage her to call me. I also spoke with my attorney today, and he advised me to get my pastor to contact the shelter (apparently ministers can do this). He said to make it simple, and only relay the message that the husband wants to resolve the issues professionally, and would like to begin communications. It will be up to her whether or not she accepts those terms.

Meanwhile, I am making my mother arrangements to find another place to stay. We have both agreed that she cannot continue to live here and cause any further detriment to our marriage.

My company has allowed me to hire additional help to relieve me of the evening work I was formerly dealing with. I can now work a normal 8-5 like everyone else. I just won't be hiring them in at management level, and hoping for the best.

I have also been granted a 6-month hardship deferment on my mortgage, during which time I only have to pay the interest--allowing me to build up a savings rather quickly. I felt this was the right move, all things considered--not sure how that will affect my credit score though. Since my baby can get her AOS/EAD right away as a result, I honestly can care less.

I have contacted my insurance, and worked out approvable arrangements so we can see specialists right away for our fertility and post traumatic stress syndromes, and each visit will only cost us $35 copay.

I will be seeking marriage counselors next to assist us in rebuilding our foundations and reinforcing what has been learned thus far to prevent this from ever reoccuring.

If my baby comes home, it's going to work this time.

It's just a matter of time now.

I just read this after I posted my post. But good for you! You are doing great! I really hope it all works out, you seem like such a good and caring husband!

[Married2aTico 0]

Glad to see that things are looking up for your situation. There is just one thing I haven't seen touched on here: I noticed in your post that you had talked to your current wife about your ex-wife and how you would not tolerate that kind of behavior again. I'm sure you had NO intentions of hurting her and were just explaining your experiences. However, as the second wife myself, I can tell you ANY mention of the ex would be hurtful. Even though your intention is not so, it will always feel like you are making comparisons- good or bad. (Doing a little web research on that could be insightful- could also explain why some of the other things that have happened, have had an even more profound effect on her.) Your wife already knows all that she needs to about your ex! Try to put yourself in her shoes. Let your ex stay in the past and focus on the beautiful future that you two will build together. Just my two cents on another thing to maintain a strong relationship. Good luck with everything!