Mahr - What Determines Worth?

[Ban Hammer 13,110]

Oya. Can we discuss the subject without digs at other members please?

yeah, yeah My beeyotch musta jumped out!

release your inner beeyotch! :dance: :dance:

[UmmSqueakster 54]

If you're taking your interpretation of the religion from a flippant remark given in response to the statement that you know you're a MENA wife if you bought your husband, then you're probably not going to get a scholarly understanding of the concept.

See, sh*t stirring.

no sh*t stirring, its a question i became curious about...if i was muslim or married to one, this wouldnt be concidered sh*t stirring, so give me my scholarly answer if you can

I've already done so twice - on this thread and on one of the locked threads yesterday.

Further:

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satelli...aEAskTheScholar

Mahr is not a bride price. It is a woman's right and it signifies a husband's love and appreciation for his wife. In the Qur'an it is called "sadaqah" which means a token of friendship. It is also called "nihlah" which means "a nice gift or present." Mahr also signifies a husband's commitment to take care of his wife's financial needs (nafaqah).

[sandinista! 1,816]

[

Just try to explain THAT age gap to the CO.....

Seriously this dowry business reminds me of a movie they used to show in school that was supposed to take place on a Pacific island I think... Men gave cows to their potential inlaws as a sign of the wife's worth and all the girls in the village bragged about how many cows their fiance was giving to their parents... There was one girl who was an outcaste who the other girls shunned and considered the 'ugly girl'... She somehow caught the attention of a guy who offered some huge number of cows, because of her inner beautiy and worth - all of the other 'pretty' catty girls were pwned, LOL.... I of course loved this movie and wish I could remember what it was called.

lol...it's johnny lingo! i can't remember where i saw it, probably school.

[Staashi 371]

OK - I'm jumping on from work real quick cause I had to get in on this.

Mahr is what is known as a bride price - it is not a dowry because it is provided by the groom to the bride, not vice versa. But just so that everyone understands the difference here are the definitions:

Bride Price - Bride price also known as bride wealth is an amount of money or property or wealth paid by the groom or his family to the parents of a woman upon the marriage of their daughter to the groom. (Compare dowry, which is paid to the groom, or used by the bride to help establish the new household, and dower, which is property settled on the bride herself by the groom at the time of marriage.) In the anthropological literature bride price has often been explained in market terms, as payment made in exchange for the bride's family's loss of her labor and fertility within her kin group. Compare this affinal practice with brideservice, which does not rely on a compensatory exchange idiom for ethnological interpretation. The same culture may simultaneously practice both dowry and bride price.

Dowry - A dowry (also known as trousseau or tocher) is the money, goods, or estate that a woman brings to her soon to be husband in marriage.[1] Compare bride price, which is paid to the bride's parents, and dower, which is property settled on the bride herself by the groom at the time of marriage. The same culture may simultaneously practice both dowry and bride price. Many cultures had dowries prior to any existing records.

In this country, as in almost all western countries, women used to bring what was known as her trousseau to the marriage. For the best example of this, watch "The Quiet Man" with John Wayne and Maureen O'Hara. A woman wasn't worth anything without her trousseau. They were her family's possessions to be passed on to her and her husband to build their future home together. In the USA, some women still have a trousseau, or their families still provide a dowry but it now is traditionally in the form of paying for the wedding. The US version of the bride price is the engagement ring.

And yes, Carmen, just go back and read or watch Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice or Sense and Sensibility for a great instruction on dowries, as the Bennett and Dashwood sisters had no property -money, nor land to offer to any suitor, and because of that, were seen as the worst of the worst in the world of "Gentlemen".

I am not coming down on anyone, but when Narina stated the other day that her husband bought her - he did...and a hefty sum at that - $10,000 and tons of gold. He paid the bride price and she made it explicitly known that she was signed, sealed and delivered for that sum.

Remember, marriage is actually a contract between two parties. Only recently it has become this spiritual/sacramental thing, and I believe that the US is one of the few countries that will acknowledge marriages performed in a church as legal; as almost all other countries it has to be performed civilly and then a religious marriage if so desired, but it's the civil marriage that is gonna cost you in the end.

Edited November 18, 2008 by Staashi

[Ban Hammer 13,110]

He paid the bride price and she made it explicitly known that she was signed, sealed and delivered for that sum.

[sereia 0]

I think wikipedia says it well as well as Rahma's explanation.

Mahr

Mahr (Arabic: مهر‎; also transliterated mehr, meher, or mahrieh) is a gift, mandatory in Islam, which is given by the groom to the bride upon marriage in Islamic cultures.[1] (in contrast to other cultures' bride price, which is paid to the bride's father). It is considered to be a form of appreciation, as well as providing certain guarantees for the woman.

The gift can be intangible or negligible, it can take the form investments or real property. The mahr may also be divided into portions, one to be given to the bride at marriage, the other to be given to the wife if she is widowed or divorced. It should be given according to the social status of the bride.

Islamic scholars consider it as a way of emphasizing the importance of the marriage contract and preparing the husband to fulfill his marital responsibilities. It also can be a form of protection against arbitrary divorce.

References in Islamic texts & of modern Muslim practices

Mahr is mentioned in the Qur'an, verse 4:4. The Encyclopaedia of Islam's entry on mahr states: "According to a tradition in Bukhari, the mahr is an essential condition for the legality of the marriage: 'Every marriage without mahr is null and void'."

Also, a narration in Sunan Abu-Dawud (a lesser collection of Hadith, as it contains some narrations of weaker verifiability) suggests that the mahr must be given prior to consummation:

Narrated a man from the Companions of the Prophet: Muhammad ibn Abdur-Rahman ibn Thawban reported on the authority of a man from the Companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him): When Ali married Fatimah, daughter of the Apostle of Allah, he intended to have intercourse with her. The Apostle of Allah prohibited him to do so until he gave her something. Ali said: "I have nothing with me, Apostle of Allah." The Prophet said: "Give her your coat of mail." So he gave her his coat of mail, and then cohabited with her.[4]

In 2003, Rubya Mehdi published an article in which the culture of Mahr among Muslims was thoroughly reviewed.

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So there's your answer, Platy. It is supposed to be determined by her "social status." Not sure how that would work with MENA husbands and American wives though...

Edited November 18, 2008 by Sheherazade

[Ban Hammer 13,110]

It should be given according to the social status of the bride.

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So there's your answer, Platy. It is supposed to be determined by her "social status." Not sure how that would work with MENA husbands and American wives though...

oh you just know there's gonna be some interesting conversations today in mena homes.

[Staashi 371]

It should be given according to the social status of the bride.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So there's your answer, Platy. It is supposed to be determined by her "social status." Not sure how that would work with MENA husbands and American wives though...

oh you just know there's gonna be some interesting conversations today in mena homes.

Which all of this just goes back to Platy's original question about someone's skin or hair color. Her worth was normally deemed as greater because she didn't have to work in the sun, or her fair skin and blonde or lighter colored hair were deemed as making her more desirable. Just think, "Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the fairest of them all." Freaking SNOW WHITE!!!! You think she was a prize because she was holed up in some shack with 7 dwarfs - nope, it's cause her skin was as pure as snow.

Now discuss.

[sereia 0]

Everytime I saw the commercial in MENA for this cream that whitens your skin I shook my head.

Here in the US people bake in the sun, bake under a fake light, lather on tanning cream... and there they want to be lighter!!!

The grass is always greener...

[Ban Hammer 13,110]

It should be given according to the social status of the bride.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So there's your answer, Platy. It is supposed to be determined by her "social status." Not sure how that would work with MENA husbands and American wives though...

oh you just know there's gonna be some interesting conversations today in mena homes.

Which all of this just goes back to Platy's original question about someone's skin or hair color. Her worth was normally deemed as greater because she didn't have to work in the sun, or her fair skin and blonde or lighter colored hair were deemed as making her more desirable. Just think, "Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the fairest of them all." Freaking SNOW WHITE!!!! You think she was a prize because she was holed up in some shack with 7 dwarfs - nope, it's cause her skin was as pure as snow.

Now discuss.

now i'm thinking about that song by rammstein "sonne"

[Staashi 371]

Everytime I saw the commercial in MENA for this cream that whitens your skin I shook my head.

Here in the US people bake in the sun, bake under a fake light, lather on tanning cream... and there they want to be lighter!!!

The grass is always greener...

So true, just have a blonde walk down the street in Cairo or Casablanca and see what happens. Vice versa, Argentina is the most caucasian country in the world, you should see the looks that a black man or woman gets there...unreal!

It should be given according to the social status of the bride.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So there's your answer, Platy. It is supposed to be determined by her "social status." Not sure how that would work with MENA husbands and American wives though...

oh you just know there's gonna be some interesting conversations today in mena homes.

Which all of this just goes back to Platy's original question about someone's skin or hair color. Her worth was normally deemed as greater because she didn't have to work in the sun, or her fair skin and blonde or lighter colored hair were deemed as making her more desirable. Just think, "Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the fairest of them all." Freaking SNOW WHITE!!!! You think she was a prize because she was holed up in some shack with 7 dwarfs - nope, it's cause her skin was as pure as snow.

Now discuss.

now i'm thinking about that song by rammstein "sonne"

Charles, my hubby loves Rammstein!

[Ban Hammer 13,110]

Everytime I saw the commercial in MENA for this cream that whitens your skin I shook my head.

Here in the US people bake in the sun, bake under a fake light, lather on tanning cream... and there they want to be lighter!!!

The grass is always greener...

So true, just have a blonde walk down the street in Cairo or Casablanca and see what happens. Vice versa, Argentina is the most caucasian country in the world, you should see the looks that a black man or woman gets there...unreal!

It should be given according to the social status of the bride.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So there's your answer, Platy. It is supposed to be determined by her "social status." Not sure how that would work with MENA husbands and American wives though...

oh you just know there's gonna be some interesting conversations today in mena homes.

Which all of this just goes back to Platy's original question about someone's skin or hair color. Her worth was normally deemed as greater because she didn't have to work in the sun, or her fair skin and blonde or lighter colored hair were deemed as making her more desirable. Just think, "Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the fairest of them all." Freaking SNOW WHITE!!!! You think she was a prize because she was holed up in some shack with 7 dwarfs - nope, it's cause her skin was as pure as snow.

Now discuss.

now i'm thinking about that song by rammstein "sonne"

Charles, my hubby loves Rammstein!

watch the video to get why i'm thinking about that song.

[Jenn! 918]

To me the whole concept of assigning value to a human being based on their physical characteristics is very distasteful and my mind immediately jumps to prostitution. But then again, I don't like beauty pageants or auctioning off firemen for dates either.

I know not every culture (even subculture in the U.S.) views it that way though. No skin off my back, I guess. But don't expect me to be impressed by the amount of money you think you're worth.

[HLM 1]

Everytime I saw the commercial in MENA for this cream that whitens your skin I shook my head.

Here in the US people bake in the sun, bake under a fake light, lather on tanning cream... and there they want to be lighter!!!

The grass is always greener...

I totally agree!! once in high school we were asked to write a paper about the commons between that cream and the KKK!! LOL

[Staashi 371]

Everytime I saw the commercial in MENA for this cream that whitens your skin I shook my head.

Here in the US people bake in the sun, bake under a fake light, lather on tanning cream... and there they want to be lighter!!!

The grass is always greener...

So true, just have a blonde walk down the street in Cairo or Casablanca and see what happens. Vice versa, Argentina is the most caucasian country in the world, you should see the looks that a black man or woman gets there...unreal!

It should be given according to the social status of the bride.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So there's your answer, Platy. It is supposed to be determined by her "social status." Not sure how that would work with MENA husbands and American wives though...

oh you just know there's gonna be some interesting conversations today in mena homes.

Which all of this just goes back to Platy's original question about someone's skin or hair color. Her worth was normally deemed as greater because she didn't have to work in the sun, or her fair skin and blonde or lighter colored hair were deemed as making her more desirable. Just think, "Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the fairest of them all." Freaking SNOW WHITE!!!! You think she was a prize because she was holed up in some shack with 7 dwarfs - nope, it's cause her skin was as pure as snow.

Now discuss.

now i'm thinking about that song by rammstein "sonne"

Charles, my hubby loves Rammstein!

watch the video to get why i'm thinking about that song.

I'll have to look it up on youtube when I get home.