A Canadian/US baby

[wrumug 0]

i have already applied citizenship certificate for my little baby. she was born in july 2008.

i made an appointment with CC. It only took her about 30 mins to go through my application and to make copy of all the support documents and such as my daughter Social Security Card, my daughter's Birth Certificate, my daughter's immunization record, my citizenship card and my passport.

Also you need to pay the fee too. i paid CAD75

she told me that it will take around 8 months to get the thing done.

[trailmix 77]

Actually this does not apply to naturalized citizens. Your baby will be considered the first generation born abroad, so Citizenship can pass to your baby. You must file for a Citizenship Certificate.

Based on the new naturalization act, your child will not be able to pass Canadian Citizenship to her children unless the children are born in Canada.

Although in thinking about the item I posted above, wouldn't the retention criteria apply to the child's children?

Retention applies to natural-born children of Canadian citizens, not adopted children, and it applies only to Canadians born outside Canada after February 14, 1977,

- to a Canadian parent who was also born outside Canada to a Canadian parent.

- Section 8 of the 1977 Citizenship Act says that this second generation born outside Canada will lose their Canadian citizenship at age 28 unless they take steps to retain it.

[antda 13]

Hi Trailmix and Zyggy,

Thanks to your helpful replies to my post. Thanks too, for saying that I would have to register their birth before 28 (I looked this up before, but wasn't sure about it, so it's good to get that confirmed here), and that they would have to get a Citizenship Certificate/Card (lol...just like the one I have) and not a Canadian birth certificate as they would not be born in Canada.

Lol..funny how my Baby/Child and I will both be Canadians (if my Baby/Child/Adult Child chooses, that is), but both have no Canadian birth certificates.... ...Oh well, two generations of Canadians with Canadian Citizenship Certificates/Cards instead...that should be an interesting border crossing experience for the both of us!....

Oh, and as for the "second generation" of Canadians that can't pass Canadian citizenship to their chidlren unless they are born in Canada, I assume you mean this means the next generation of grandchildren instead, as my Baby/Child will be "first generation" based on Canadian citizenship gained directly from a Canadian parent?

Good luck everyone on your immigration journeys too.

Ant (Still waiting at the VSC, Still waiting for Baby...)

Hi Ant,

Yes, because you were also born outside Canada, you would have to register their birth before age 28, plus they will have to meet the criteria below. They will not get a Canadian birth certificate (you can only get a birth certificate in a country you were physically born in).

Actually this does not apply to naturalized citizens. Your baby will be considered the first generation born abroad, so Citizenship can pass to your baby. You must file for a Citizenship Certificate.

Based on the new naturalization act, your child will not be able to pass Canadian Citizenship to her children unless the children are born in Canada.

[antda 13]

Hi Everyone,

Ok, to avoid further confusion, and as well, for curiousity's sake...I looked up the information, and officially, on the Citizenship and Immigration Canada website, this is what I found:

Retaining citizenship

Some citizens born outside Canada to a parent who was a Canadian at the time of their birth are required to make an application and meet certain requirements to keep (retain) Canadian citizenship before turning 28 years of age. This is called retention of Canadian citizenship.

Retention applies to Canadians born outside Canada after February 14, 1977, to a Canadian parent who was also born outside Canada to a Canadian parent. The Citizenship Act says that this second generation born outside Canada will lose Canadian citizenship at age 28 unless steps are taken to retain it.

No later than April 17, 2009 the law will change to end the need to retain citizenship for many people. However, people born outside Canada who are subject to the retention rules and who turn 28 before the new law comes into effect must still take action to retain citizenship.

Find out more about the new law and who is affected.

The new law will not restore citizenship to people who have lost it because they turned 28 years of age and did not meet the present requirements.

You do not have to retain citizenship if:

• you were born in Canada
• you were granted Canadian citizenship (become a Canadian citizen or naturalized as a Canadian citizen)
• you were born outside Canada, but one of your parents was born in Canada or
• you were born outside Canada after one parent was granted Canadian citizenship.

Retaining citizenship does not apply to adopted children.

To retain Canadian citizenship, you must:

• meet certain requirements
• send an application and
• take these steps before the age of 28.

In some cases, you may not need to apply, but you should check to make sure. A simple worksheet is provided on the page under Who Can Apply.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/ENGLISH/citizenship/retain.asp

New citizenship rules

A new law will come into effect no later than April 17, 2009, amending the Citizenship Act. The new law will give Canadian citizenship to certain individuals who lost it and to others who will be recognized as citizens for the first time. Citizenship will be automatic and retroactive to the date of loss or date of birth, depending on the situation. People will not have to apply for citizenship, but may need to apply for a citizenship certificate to prove their citizenship. Individuals who are Canadian citizens at the time the law comes into effect will keep their citizenship.

Until the new law comes into effect, the current law will apply.

• This means that people who will become citizens under the new law are not citizens yet. Once the new law comes into effect, these people may apply for proof of citizenship.
• As well, foreign-born persons adopted by a Canadian citizen between January 1, 1947, and February 14, 1977, must wait to apply for citizenship until the new law comes into effect.
• This also means that people who will become citizens under the new law but wish to move to Canada before it comes into effect must contact Citizenship and Immigration Canada to find out what steps they must take to come to Canada using current immigration processes.
• Also, people born outside Canada who are subject to the retention rules and who will turn 28 before the law comes into effect must still take action to retain citizenship.

Who will become a citizen

The law restores citizenship to the following individuals who lost it because of the rules in effect under the previous laws:

• People who became citizens when the first citizenship act took effect on January 1, 1947, including people born in Canada prior to 1947, war brides, and other British subjects who had lived in Canada for at least five years before 1947 and who then lost citizenship;
• People who were born in Canada or who became Canadian citizens on or after January 1, 1947, and who then lost their citizenship; and
• People who were born outside Canada, on or after January 1, 1947, in the first generation born abroad, to a parent who was a Canadian citizen at the time of the birth.

The law gives citizenship to the following individuals who have never been citizens:

• People who did not take the steps necessary to become citizens and who were born outside Canada on or after January 1, 1947, in the first generation born abroad to a parent who was a Canadian citizen at the time of the birth.

Who will not become a citizen

The following individuals will not become citizens under the new law:

• People who did not become citizens when the first citizenship act took effect on January 1, 1947;
• People born in Canada who are not citizens because at the time of their birth, one of their parents was a foreign diplomat;
• People who were born outside Canada to a Canadian parent, who are not already citizens or who lost their citizenship in the past, and who were born in the second or subsequent generation abroad;
• People who were born outside Canada to a Canadian parent, in the second or subsequent generation born abroad, and who lost their citizenship because they did not take the steps needed to retain their citizenship;
• People who renounced their citizenship as adults with the Canadian government; and
• People whose citizenship was revoked by the government because it was obtained by fraud.

Adoption

The rules that came into effect in December 2007 allowing children born outside Canada and adopted after February 14, 1977, to become Canadian citizens without having to become permanent residents will be extended to people adopted on or after January 1, 1947. For the adopted person to be eligible for citizenship, certain requirements must be met, including the submission of an application. This also includes people adopted by someone who will reacquire Canadian citizenship under the new law.

Persons born or adopted outside Canada after the new law comes into effect

The new law changes the rules for people born outside Canada. Individuals born outside Canada to a parent who was a Canadian citizen at the time of the birth will only be Canadians at birth if:

• the parent was born in Canada;
• the parent became a Canadian citizen by immigrating to Canada and being granted citizenship.

This means that children born in another country after the new law comes into effect will not be Canadian citizens by birth if they were born outside Canada to a Canadian parent who was also born outside Canada to a Canadian parent.

This limitation will also apply to foreign-born individuals adopted by a Canadian parent. The adopted children of Canadian citizens will be considered to be the first generation born abroad. This means that:

• if a person born outside Canada and adopted by a Canadian parent has a child outside Canada, that child will not be a citizen by birth;
• if a person born outside Canada and adopted by a Canadian parent adopts a child outside Canada, that child will not be eligible to apply for citizenship under the adoption provisions of the Citizenship Act; and
• if a person born outside Canada to a Canadian parent, in the first generation born abroad, adopts a foreign-born child, that adopted child will not be eligible to apply for citizenship under the adoption provisions of the Citizenship Act.

There are exceptions to these rules. The limitation will not apply to a child born or adopted abroad in the second or subsequent generation if, at the time of the child's birth or adoption, their Canadian parent is working outside Canada for the Canadian government or a Canadian province or serving outside Canada with the Canadian forces.

Children who are not eligible for citizenship under the Citizenship Act may be sponsored as permanent residents and then apply for citizenship. An application for citizenship for a child under 18 may be submitted as soon as the child becomes a permanent resident.

How to prove you are a Canadian citizen

For most purposes, people born in Canada may use their provincial or territorial birth certificate to prove their Canadian citizenship. Individuals who were born in Canada, who lost their citizenship in the past and who either resumed their citizenship in the past or reacquired it under the new law should be able to use their birth certificate as proof of citizenship.

People who were born outside Canada require a citizenship certificate to prove their Canadian citizenship. Find out how to apply for a citizenship certificate.

Getting ready for the new law

CIC is preparing for the new law by:

• writing regulations to support the amendments;
• writing information sheets to explain the changes;
• updating applications and other forms;
• training staff;
• working with stakeholders and partners to ensure that they know about the changes and can inform others about them.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/ENGLISH/citizenship/r...citizenship.asp

Hope this helps too. Good luck Everyone, on your immigration journeys, and for obtaining Canadian citizenship for your Little Ones too!

Ant (Still waiting at the VSC, Still waiting for Baby...)

Edited January 8, 2009 by AntandD

[antda 13]

Hi Wrumug,

Congratulations on your baby, and congratulations too, on applying for your daughter's Canadian Citizenship. Glad that they didn't give you any problems there at the Canadian Consulate with the documentation and fee that you gave them regarding your daughter. Hope you get her Canadian Citizenship card soon too, and thanks again, for sharing your experience here in applying for such. And yes, to update us as to what happens when you get the card too.

By the way, I noticed that you mentioned that you showed them your Canadian Citizenship Card instead of a Canadian Birth Certificate for proving your Canadian Citizenship. Did they give you any additional problems because of that?

Wow, 8 months and $75 for a baby/child's Canadian Citizenship Card doesn't sound too bad at all...Lol...now why can't getting/renewing a Canadian Passport be as simple process-wise and cost-wise as that too? Oh the mysteries of the Canadian government....

Good luck on the rest of your immigration journey as well (lol..it looks like we'll both be waiting at the VSC for a long time our I-751s to be approved..too..uggh...)...

Ant (Still waiting at the VSC, Still waiting for Baby...)

i have already applied citizenship certificate for my little baby. she was born in july 2008.

i made an appointment with CC. It only took her about 30 mins to go through my application and to make copy of all the support documents and such as my daughter Social Security Card, my daughter's Birth Certificate, my daughter's immunization record, my citizenship card and my passport.

Also you need to pay the fee too. i paid CAD75

she told me that it will take around 8 months to get the thing done.

Edited January 8, 2009 by AntandD

[trailmix 77]

Hi Ant,

I don't think that my reply or Zyggy's reply really helped you because it was long and confusing.

Bottom line, your child will automatically be a Canadian citizen - it is his or her children that will not automatically be.

[wrumug 0]

Hi Wrumug,

By the way, I noticed that you mentioned that you showed them your Canadian Citizenship Card instead of a Canadian Birth Certificate for proving your Canadian Citizenship. Did they give you any additional problems because of that?

Good luck on the rest of your immigration journey as well (lol..it looks like we'll both be waiting at the VSC for a long time our I-751s to be approved..too..uggh...)...

Ant (Still waiting at the VSC, Still waiting for Baby...)

hi ant

they didn't give me any additional problems at all. i just showed my all documents and paid the fee. that's it. however, i need to make an appointment first. that's all you need to do.

i have a question, i want to go back to torono in May this year, do you think i need to apply US passport for my daughter or just use her birth certificate to cross the boarder?

[trailmix 77]

Hi Wrumug,

By the way, I noticed that you mentioned that you showed them your Canadian Citizenship Card instead of a Canadian Birth Certificate for proving your Canadian Citizenship. Did they give you any additional problems because of that?

Good luck on the rest of your immigration journey as well (lol..it looks like we'll both be waiting at the VSC for a long time our I-751s to be approved..too..uggh...)...

Ant (Still waiting at the VSC, Still waiting for Baby...)

hi ant

they didn't give me any additional problems at all. i just showed my all documents and paid the fee. that's it. however, i need to make an appointment first. that's all you need to do.

i have a question, i want to go back to torono in May this year, do you think i need to apply US passport for my daughter or just use her birth certificate to cross the boarder?

Depends if you are crossing the land border or flying, if land, no, if flying, yes.

For Land/Sea Travel On January 31, 2008, U.S. and Canadian citizens entering the U.S. will need to present either a WHTI-compliant document or a government-issued photo ID, such as a driver’s license, plus proof of citizenship, such as a birth certificate. At a later date to be determined, the implementation of all WHTI requirements will be announced.

Under the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative (WHTI), for entry into the United States at land or sea borders:

- Oral declarations of citizenship alone will no longer be accepted; U.S. and Canadian citizens ages 19 and older will need to present a government-issued photo ID, such as a driver’s license, along with proof of citizenship, such as a birth certificate or naturalization certificate;

- Children ages 18 and under will only be required to present proof of citizenship, such as a birth certificate;

- Passports and trusted traveler program cards - NEXUS, FAST, and SENTRI - will continue to be accepted for cross-border travel.

All existing nonimmigrant visa and passport requirements will remain in effect and will not be altered by this change. A passport has been required for air travel since January 23, 2007.

[wrumug 0]

we plan to drive back to toronto, so just present the birth certificate.

thanks

[antda 13]

Hi Trailmix,

Nah...I didn't find yours or Zyggy's reply to be confusing at all, and instead I found it to be quite helpful (to the point where I was more curious and wanted to find out further about it). In fact, the more long and confusing that infomation seems to others...the more it makes sense to me...lol.... Lol..And yes, I'm probably the one with the long and confusing posts here, as you can see...

Ok, good to know about the "bottom line" too, in terms of my Baby/Child becoming a Canadian citizen. As for the "second generation" grandkids (gosh knows how long that will be, and if it will ever be), I'll let them figure that one out...

Ant (Still waiting at the VSC, Still waiting for Baby...)

Hi Ant,

I don't think that my reply or Zyggy's reply really helped you because it was long and confusing.

Bottom line, your child will automatically be a Canadian citizen - it is his or her children that will not automatically be.

Edited January 8, 2009 by AntandD

[antda 13]

Hi Wrumug,

Glad to know that they didn't give you any additional problems because of your Citizenship Card either. When you made an appointment, how long did it take for such (from making the appointment to the interview), and where did you go for your appointment?

If you are travelling by air with your baby/child, it's probably best that they get an American/US passport instead of a Canadian one, as frankly a Canadian one is just too difficult process-wise and costly to get in comparison to an American one....

In the meantime, for land border crossings travel, yes, a birth certificate should suffice for your baby/child (as also posted by Trailmix there...thanks...)....

Have fun on your drive back to Toronto. By the way, if you're crossing back to Canada by land from NYS, the best bridge to cross is the Peace Bridge in Buffalo NY/Fort Erie Ont. As well, don't forget to bring extra change for the toll ($3.50 I think), remember to check for traffic conditions before you go, and drive in kilometres instead of miles when you are in Canada. Lol..and yes, do be careful when driving on the QEW, especially during rush-hour!....

Good luck too, on the rest of your immigration journey. Happy travels back to Canada in May!

Ant (Still waiting for at the VSC, Still wating for Baby...)

hi ant

they didn't give me any additional problems at all. i just showed my all documents and paid the fee. that's it. however, i need to make an appointment first. that's all you need to do.

i have a question, i want to go back to torono in May this year, do you think i need to apply US passport for my daughter or just use her birth certificate to cross the boarder?

we plan to drive back to toronto, so just present the birth certificate.

thanks

Edited January 8, 2009 by AntandD

[wrumug 0]

Hi Wrumug,

Glad to know that they didn't give you any additional problems because of your Citizenship Card either. When you made an appointment, how long did it take for such (from making the appointment to the interview), and where did you go for your appointment?

If you are travelling by air with your baby/child, it's probably best that they get an American/US passport instead of a Canadian one, as frankly a Canadian one is just too difficult process-wise and costly to get in comparison to an American one....

In the meantime, for land border crossings travel, yes, a birth certificate should suffice for your baby/child (as also posted by Trailmix there...thanks...)....

Have fun on your drive back to Toronto. By the way, if you're crossing back to Canada by land from NYS, the best bridge to cross is the Peace Bridge in Buffalo NY/Fort Erie Ont. As well, don't forget to bring extra change for the toll ($3.50 I think), remember to check for traffic conditions before you go, and drive in kilometres instead of miles when you are in Canada. Lol..and yes, do be careful when driving on the QEW, especially during rush-hour!....

Good luck too, on the rest of your immigration journey. Happy travels back to Canada in May!

Ant (Still waiting for at the VSC, Still wating for Baby...)

Hi Ant,

It only took 2 days. I went to Boston office.

I usually take the Peace Bridge back to Toronto (from boston to toronto, it usually take about 10-12 hours )

bty, forgot to tell you guys something. when i applied for my daughter's citizenship certificate, she needs to take canadian style passport photos (it's hard to find a place that they know how to take that kind of photo; however, you can find the information from the local CC website (it has a list of place that they know how to do it), we had to pay about USD18 for 2 pcs of photo only, kind of expensive)

[antda 13]

Hi Wrumug,

Wow, 2 days to get it all done at your local Canadian Consulate office in Boston, doesn't seem to bad at all! That was quick! Lol...now why is it then, that they don't renew Canadian passports at the Consulate in this quick and easy way too...oh well...

Thanks too, for telling us all here about the Canadian passport-style requirement for Citizenship Certificates. By the way, what's the difference between Canadian and American passport photos anyways? Is it the size of them, or something else? Well, whatever it is, I agree with you that $18 for 2 photos seems kind of expensive there for two Canadian photos, as it's double/triple the cost of the American ones. Oh well, it has to be done, so be it. I've heard of other VJers too, who have the same problem when renewing their Canadian passports, in terms of getting Canadian photos, and that many applications are denied because of this. So I guess in a way, it's better to get it right the first time, in terms of getting the right sized Canadian photos, then it is to have to the Canadian immigration documents applications rejected and/or denied.

Good luck on your trip driving from Boston to Toronto, and yes, it is definitely a long drive there, especially more so that you have a baby/child with you on the drive. Funny, I remember driving with my husand almost the same distance (from NYS near Buffalo, to Boston), and boy was it a long drive! Lol...it didn't help either, that the rest-stops on the I-90 on both sides of traffic looked all alike in Mass., so I felt as though we wern't moving too much along the freeway (Didn't we just pass that McD's and Exxon at the last exit?...lol....). Oh and by the way, if you're travelling via the I-90, make sure you bring about $20 or so to pay for the toll from beginning of the freeway in Mass. to the end of the freeway in NYS...ouch....

Good luck too, on the rest of your immigration situation (lol...looks like we'll both be waiting for awhile at the VSC too..).

Ant (Still waiting at the VSC, Still waiting for Baby...)

It only took 2 days. I went to Boston office.

I usually take the Peace Bridge back to Toronto (from boston to toronto, it usually take about 10-12 hours )

bty, forgot to tell you guys something. when i applied for my daughter's citizenship certificate, she needs to take canadian style passport photos (it's hard to find a place that they know how to take that kind of photo; however, you can find the information from the local CC website (it has a list of place that they know how to do it), we had to pay about USD18 for 2 pcs of photo only, kind of expensive)

[new orleans bound 0]

I think there needs to be an easier way to apply for Canadian citizenship for babies! I finally filled out all the stupid paper work and now I wait. I'll let you guys know how quickly we get her citizenship certificate.

[antda 13]

Hi NewOrleansBound,

I agree with you there. Lol..on the other hand, applying for a Canadian citizenship card is easier than getting a Canadian passport for Canadians who are already Citizens...go figure....

Makes no sense at all, really, in terms of the way the Canadian citizenship and immigration officials handle paperwork. Funny, how things make no sense on this side of the border either, in terms of dealing the the USCIS....oh well..that's the way it is with the government, regardless of country...a big long waiting game...grrrr....

And yes, do update us all here as to how quickly you get your daughter's citizenship certificate. By the way, if you don't mind me asking, how long have you been waiting so far, and how long do you expect to be waiting still?

Good luck on the rest of your US immigration and baby Canadian citizenship journey too....

Ant (Still waiting at the VSC, Still waiting for Baby...)

I think there needs to be an easier way to apply for Canadian citizenship for babies! I finally filled out all the stupid paper work and now I wait. I'll let you guys know how quickly we get her citizenship certificate.

Edited January 11, 2009 by AntandD