Rape victim has the last word

[Scott & Lai 12]

I side with the wisdom we learned back in school when we read about the Salem witch hunts - "better to let a thousand guilty go free, then to have the blood of one innocent on your hands."

But if we do this, would't the result be thousands of innocents being victimized by those thousand guilty ones we freed? Wouldn't we then have the blood of those victims on our hands?

[Danno 1,228]

IN light of that last post, I make a motion we castrate all persons having been convicted of a (1st degree) rape and then again, found guilty of rape.

That sounds all black and white until you or someone you know, God forbid, is accused of raping a woman. There have been plenty of cases where someone was falsely convicted of rape, spent years in prison, only to be exonerated later on by DNA evidence. Even in a case where the defendant admits to have sexual relations with the woman but says it was consensual. Once you start thinking of all the possible scenarios (date rape, etc.) you might think twice about the idea of instituting permanent castration a just form of punishment.

I agree with you, thats why I said he would have to be found guilty of rape again.

On a second offense, the "I am innocent" line is kinda weak.

I don't know...thinking of all possible scenarios - there is a probability of a man being falsely accused of rape by more than one woman. Our justice system - as good as it is - isn't perfect and there have been a lot of people falsely convicted and sent to prison. I side with the wisdom we learned back in school when we read about the Salem witch hunts - "better to let a thousand guilty go free, then to have the blood of one innocent on your hands." There are some real bastards out there roaming about free....who should be behind bars. I think we'd better to spend our energies on preventing future rapists and teaching women self-defense...methods to protect themselves from sexual assault.

Its not inconceivable that someone could be falsely accused the first time and then targetted by a money grubber the second time on the basis of the first accusation. Clearly there are no hard and fast rules to this - much as Danno might want to pretend otherwise.

Which is why when someone says they've come up with a new and interesting way to save society from itself - the ideas are often pretty dumb.

With your ability to bend over backwards, to suspend logic, I imagine you are still waiting for WMD's to be found in Iraq..... or does that trait of yours only kick-in for accused rapists?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

IN light of that last post, I make a motion we castrate all persons having been convicted of a (1st degree) rape and then again, found guilty of rape.

That sounds all black and white until you or someone you know, God forbid, is accused of raping a woman. There have been plenty of cases where someone was falsely convicted of rape, spent years in prison, only to be exonerated later on by DNA evidence. Even in a case where the defendant admits to have sexual relations with the woman but says it was consensual. Once you start thinking of all the possible scenarios (date rape, etc.) you might think twice about the idea of instituting permanent castration a just form of punishment.

I agree with you, thats why I said he would have to be found guilty of rape again.

On a second offense, the "I am innocent" line is kinda weak.

I don't know...thinking of all possible scenarios - there is a probability of a man being falsely accused of rape by more than one woman. Our justice system - as good as it is - isn't perfect and there have been a lot of people falsely convicted and sent to prison. I side with the wisdom we learned back in school when we read about the Salem witch hunts - "better to let a thousand guilty go free, then to have the blood of one innocent on your hands." There are some real bastards out there roaming about free....who should be behind bars. I think we'd better to spend our energies on preventing future rapists and teaching women self-defense...methods to protect themselves from sexual assault.

Its not inconceivable that someone could be falsely accused the first time and then targetted by a money grubber the second time on the basis of the first accusation. Clearly there are no hard and fast rules to this - much as Danno might want to pretend otherwise.

Which is why when someone says they've come up with a new and interesting way to save society from itself - the ideas are often pretty dumb.

With your ability to bend over backwards, to suspend logic, I imagine you are still waiting for WMD's to be found in Iraq..... or does that trait of yours only kick-in for accused rapists?

Is that what I did?

You asked a silly question...

[Sister Fracas 5]

Clearly, I don't care about that, after all, if you have nothing to hide, you will not be 'in the frame' in the first place. Rapists need to be shot, that's the bottom line and anyone who gets caught in the cross fire, so sad, too bad.

Awww Madame, good to see you....

[DeadPoolX 9]

Aside from despising rape itself (I do think rape should be a crime in which the offender, when proven guilty, receives the death sentence), I also hate another factor about rape: when women falsely accuse someone on purpose.

Accidentally accusing someone can -- and has -- happened, of course. But that's not the same as a woman targeting a man for whatever reason when he didn't commit the crime. Usually these women are looking for attention and sympathy. The problem with this is when they're found out (and they often are), their actions demean and lower the overall credibility of women who have been raped for real.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Aside from despising rape itself (I do think rape should be a crime in which the offender, when proven guilty, receives the death sentence), I also hate another factor about rape: when women falsely accuse someone on purpose.

Accidentally accusing someone can -- and has -- happened, of course. But that's not the same as a woman targeting a man for whatever reason when he didn't commit the crime. Usually these women are looking for attention and sympathy. The problem with this is when they're found out (and they often are), their actions demean and lower the overall credibility of women who have been raped for real.

Nuance? What's that!?

The solution is obvious - we should just shoot both the accuser and the accused and have done

[DeadPoolX 9]

Aside from despising rape itself (I do think rape should be a crime in which the offender, when proven guilty, receives the death sentence), I also hate another factor about rape: when women falsely accuse someone on purpose.

Accidentally accusing someone can -- and has -- happened, of course. But that's not the same as a woman targeting a man for whatever reason when he didn't commit the crime. Usually these women are looking for attention and sympathy. The problem with this is when they're found out (and they often are), their actions demean and lower the overall credibility of women who have been raped for real.

Nuance? What's that!?

The solution is obvious - we should just shoot both the accuser and the accused and have done

Well... that's always an option, but it probably wouldn't sit well with the general public.

[Danno 1,228]

Aside from despising rape itself (I do think rape should be a crime in which the offender, when proven guilty, receives the death sentence), I also hate another factor about rape: when women falsely accuse someone on purpose.

Accidentally accusing someone can -- and has -- happened, of course. But that's not the same as a woman targeting a man for whatever reason when he didn't commit the crime. Usually these women are looking for attention and sympathy. The problem with this is when they're found out (and they often are), their actions demean and lower the overall credibility of women who have been raped for real.

With Rape the Possibility of a false charge is very much present, this is why I would use the Death penalty only after the second guilty 1st degree conviction.

Don't know if I have ever heard of a case where a person was convicted twice by two different victims and found later to be innocent in both seperate cases.

But believe me, Liberals will object non-the-less.

It's always interesting how much "humanity" they hold for rapist, doing all types of legal gymnastics to protect their "rights"... and minimizing the Victims due justice.

But when it comes to later-term abortions, it's the exact opposite,

these fully formed fetuses (babies) have no presumption of rights.... suddenly, erring on the side of caution is not so important, the possibility of their "Humanity" is dismissed as they are thrown in the trash can; piece by piece.

To them, the suggestion of 2 rapes being a capital crime, is barbaric yet the defense of snuffing out fully formed babies (in the womb) is "progressive" and principled.

Some say "Liberalism is a mental disorder"... I am inclined to agree.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Aside from despising rape itself (I do think rape should be a crime in which the offender, when proven guilty, receives the death sentence), I also hate another factor about rape: when women falsely accuse someone on purpose.

Accidentally accusing someone can -- and has -- happened, of course. But that's not the same as a woman targeting a man for whatever reason when he didn't commit the crime. Usually these women are looking for attention and sympathy. The problem with this is when they're found out (and they often are), their actions demean and lower the overall credibility of women who have been raped for real.

With Rape the Possibility of a false charge is very much present, this is why I would use the Death penalty only after the second guilty 1st degree conviction.

Don't know if I have ever heard of a case where a person was convicted twice by two different victims and found later to be innocent in both seperate cases.

But believe me, Liberals will object non-the-less.

It's always interesting how much "humanity" they hold for rapist, doing all types of legal gymnastics to protect their "rights"... and minimizing the Victims due justice.

But when it comes to later-term abortions, it's the exact opposite,

these fully formed fetuses (babies) have no presumption of rights.... suddenly, erring on the side of caution is not so important, the possibility of their "Humanity" is dismissed as they are thrown in the trash can; piece by piece.

To them, the suggestion of 2 rapes being a capital crime, is barbaric yet the defense of snuffing out fully formed babies (in the womb) is "progressive" and principled.

Some say "Liberalism is a mental disorder"... I am inclined to agree.

Hmmm... It's Talk Radio's Michael Savage who says that I believe (its the title of one of his books) and if you listen seriously to that show - what's wrong with you seems fairly clear. The usual, tedious mixture of affected outrage, false assumptions and bad misunderstood ideology. Old hat really - but par for the course. Needless to say - we aren't likely to agree on any level whatsoever.

In any case you're making false comparisons - I rather suspect that the people who object to your rationale on the subject of rape probably object to the death penalty on general principle.

Edited November 18, 2008 by Paul Daniels

[HAL 9000 96]

I really wonder how many 'liberals' really favor late term abortions and minimization of rape victim's rights...

Haven't really heard of many in liberal-oriented Illinois.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I really wonder how many 'liberals' really favor late term abortions and minimization of rape victim's rights...

Haven't really heard of many in liberal-oriented Illinois.

Its the usual bunch of half-baked propaganda - of the same variety that convinced CA voters that Prop 8 needed to pass because if it didn't kids would be taught about gay rights in public schools and churches would be forced by law to marry same-sex couples.

Edited November 18, 2008 by Paul Daniels

[Danno 1,228]

I really wonder how many 'liberals' really favor late term abortions and minimization of rape victim's rights...

Haven't really heard of many in liberal-oriented Illinois.

Of course one has to look as what is "done" and not what is "said".

Try to pass a law to stop these abortions... and said liberals will insist on a

barn-door size loop-hole such as "health of the mother".... which we all know could mean

anything.

[DeadPoolX 9]

I really wonder how many 'liberals' really favor late term abortions and minimization of rape victim's rights...

Haven't really heard of many in liberal-oriented Illinois.

Its the usual bunch of half-baked propaganda - of the same variety that convinced CA voters that Prop 8 needed to pass because if it didn't kids would be taught about gay rights in public schools and churches would be forced by law to marry same-sex couples.

Those who're loud get noticed. It's the whole "squeaky wheel gets the grease" scenario. The liberals who make the most noise about being in favor of "late term abortions and minimizing the victim's rights" are the ones who're heard in newspapers, magazines and on TV. Those who're moderate -- from either political party -- aren't seen or heard as much. They're not newsworthy (i.e. they won't cause controversy and thereby get ratings or sell more copies) and moderates rarely espouse their opinions so loudly that they become obnoxious.

In other words, the liberals that are read about most by conservatives are the extremists of that ideology. The same is true in the opposite sense, as well.

[HAL 9000 96]

I really wonder how many 'liberals' really favor late term abortions and minimization of rape victim's rights...

Haven't really heard of many in liberal-oriented Illinois.

Of course one has to look as what is "done" and not what is "said".

Try to pass a law to stop these abortions... and said liberals will insist on a

barn-door size loop-hole such as "health of the mother".... which we all know could mean

anything.

Meaning... protecting the health of the mother.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I side with the wisdom we learned back in school when we read about the Salem witch hunts - "better to let a thousand guilty go free, then to have the blood of one innocent on your hands."

But if we do this, would't the result be thousands of innocents being victimized by those thousand guilty ones we freed? Wouldn't we then have the blood of those victims on our hands?

Not if we focused our energies on preventing future rapists (no one is born a rapist and there's strong evidence that their behavior was formulated from environmental factors) and teaching women effective ways to defend themselves against being assaulted. There's another wise saying that goes, "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

......

I found this regarding a rapist's profile:

Danger signs 1) Insensitivity for others/emphasis on self - Does this person put his wants above the needs, feelings or well being of others? Is getting his way more important to him than other people's welfare? Often this can go beyond mere selfishness and border nearly on an "assumed divine right." Often these people will justify a particularly vicious action with a flip comment like, "Hey, that's how the game is played." Such a person has no understanding that he must co-exist with others. Because he simply exists he thinks the world "owes" him whatever he wants. A common tactic of such a person it to make you feel bad for not doing what he wants.

2) Belittling behavior or attitudes towards others - Does this person habitually make nasty, belittling or degrading comments about others – especially under the guise of joking? Does this person think he is better than others? Does he look down on others? A nouveau riche aristocrat? Is he a racist? A person who thinks that race or social position makes him superior can also assume gender does too. When you think you are superior, an assumed right to ‘take’ what you want often follows.

3) Negating behavior or comments - Closely related to 1 and 2. Does he try to tell you what you are feeling or thinking? Or worse, tell you what you are not? Comments like "you don’t really mean that" are serious indicators of someone trying to negate you. A person who negates others is trying to take away the other person’s thoughts, feelings and needs and attempting to project his wants onto that person. The most obvious example of this is "Well even though she said ‘no’, she really meant ‘yes’".

4) Hostile and/or threatening language - What words does a person use? Choice of words convey subconscious assumptions about a particular topic. For example a man who generically refers to women as "bitches" does not have good assumptions about females (or much respect). It is all too easy to dismiss this behavior as just "blowing off steam." But if it is a constant behavior, it goes far beyond that. Someone who habitually uses violent or threatening language should be carefully watched for possible escalation. It’s on his mind already. It’s a uncomfortably short step from ‘thinking about’ to ‘doing’.

5) Bullying - This behavior is especially dangerous. Does this person use overt or subtle threats to get his way? A bully uses the threat of violence more than actual violence. Most often bullies are not willing to risk conflict with someone who can hurt them (an alpha male), and will instead chose to intimidate someone he considers weaker and safer. Someone who is bullying over other matters can easily turn to bullying you regarding sex.

6) Excessive anger - How easy does this person anger? Is he a "Short Fuse"? Does he boil over at the slightest problem? This is an indication of chronic anger. A person who explodes over a minor issue is like a full pot boiling over on the stove. It’s not that the issue is all that important, but that he has so much anger already, any more causes him to explode. Often people with chronic anger look for targets to vent their anger at. This could manifest as physical fights, abuse, or rape.

7) Brooding/ revenge - Does this person hang onto his anger long after the situation is over? Will he still be stewing over something while everyone else has moved onto other things? Will he become anti-social and glare at the source of his anger from across the room? Will he insist on taking revenge for real or imagined slights? Both indicate a petty and obsessive personality. A brooder fixates on something and then works himself into a frenzy over it. A person who seeks revenge "has to win" and is willing to take it to extremes. Refusing such a person’s sexual advances can turn this tendency towards you.

8) Obsession – This is a close cousin to number seven. It is a major factor with acquaintance rapes. This is the person who won’t leave you alone. He insists on ‘hitting on you’ long after you have told him no. He is always trying establish forced intimacy (see ‘bonding process’ below). Such obsessions easily turn into anger when his advances are rejected. One day he shows up in a fringe area, drunk and attacks.

9) Extreme mood swings - Beware someone who can go from wildly happy to deeply wounded at a moment's notice. This sort of personality can feel justified to commit an unlimited amount of violence and damage, because you "hurt his feelings." This is a common pattern among those with chronic anger about life.

10) Physical tantrums - How does this person get angry? Especially when denied "getting his way". Beware of a person who regularly physically assaults his environment i.e. hitting walls, kicking things etc. It is only a short step from striking a car to attacking you.

11) Jock or gorilla mentality - This mentality promotes both acceptance and encouragement for the use of violence. It is especially common among participants of contact sports. What is most insidious about this mentality is the "jock" receives, not only positive reinforcement, but out-and-out applause for being aggressive and violent. This can easily lead to a failure to differentiate between the playing field and real life. Mike Tyson’s comment is a prime example: "Nobody ever objected before."

12) A mean drunk - Nearly all rape and abuse cases involve alcohol. Watch what surfaces when someone is intoxicated. It shows what is always lurking underneath. Do not put yourself into a situation where you would deal with such a person while he is intoxicated. Most importantly, don't allow your facilities to be diminished by alcohol or drugs in this person's presence.

13) Alcohol or drug abuse - To begin with drug and alcohol addiction can in be traced back to selfishness and a refusal to change one’s world view. Alcohol and drugs are not the cause of bad behavior, rather they are used as an excuse! Often the attacker intentionally became intoxicated to ignore the social restrictions and inhibitions regarding violence.

While there are others, these behaviors are serious indicators of a potential rapist. This short list should acquaint you with the basics. Not all men are rapists, but a person like this has a higher probability than others. You not only find these traits among rapists and abusers, but also professional criminals. Philosophically there is little difference between such, they are all selfish. Most often it is just a matter of degrees, style and choice of victims.

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