Living and working in Canada...

[Reba 2]

Labour Laws in the 2 countries vary greatly. In the US the laws side more with the corporations than the workers IMO, in Canada its a bit the other way around (unless of course you're in a unioned occupation, then its basically the same either side of the border.)

Salaries for the grunts IMO are generally a bit higher in Canada than in the US, but then cost of living is a bit higher in Canada too. But the same could be said from NYC to Austin. Cost of living varies, so do salaries. I have found that generally speaking in the US you get a lot less for your tax dollar than in Canada though. I pay the same in income taxes here in NC as I would in Ontario for a comparable income, and yet here in NC I have much fewer public services available to me for my tax dollar.

Web designers are a dime a dozen in Canada, I think I know a dozen of 'em personally, just in the Toronto area alone. Probably more. Your hubby might want to consider further education in the field if he wants to stick with tech. Like other languages programming, or system admin, or databases or or or...

As others have said though, when the US economy tanks, the Canadian is not far behind. Canada's economy is tied by umbilical cord to the US. I don't know the percentage, but A LOT of employers in Canada ar US companies, like GM, Ford, yadda yadda yadda...When GM and Ford lay off or shut down plants, they make cuts in Canada as well. And then Canadian owned supplier companies suffer and lay off or shut down until eventually entire towns are dead, just like in the US. HOWEVER, the Canadian banking system was recently declared by the International Finance something or other to be the soundest in the world, so, take that and a couple of bucks to Timmy's and you can get a coffee and a bagel

Culturally, Canada is more open minded (generally speaking of course, there are small minded bigots everywhere, including Canada) and liberal than the US. Canada is multi-cultural, where you're encouraged to keep your native culture, whereas the US is a melting pot, and you are encourage to assmiliate to the US way of things.

I will point out that if your relative decides to immigrate to Quebec, and later sponsor her family to immigrate there as well, they will be expected to be fluent in French. If they're not, AFAIK, they will not be accepted by Quebec immigration. Any other province in Canada however doesn't care what language you speak, as long as you have a working knowledge of English and/or French. Immgiration laws to Quebec are different than the rest of the country, as are language laws.

If I had my druthers, I'd move back to Canada tomorrow. I just don't have any druthers.

[Der Bücherwurm 1]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I doubt we would go to Canada. I want to get my Masters in Library Science and be a University Librarian when we make it to the states. That would be a position where I'd get decent vacation, pay and benefits so I suppose things will work out ok. It's just been hard on me to adjust to the Dubai lifestyle after being in Germany and Norway since Dubai is even more stressful than the states. I'm sure Hoom will find IT work in the states somewhere. Regardless of where we go we'll be paid better, work fewer hours and have more government benefits than we do here. Not paying taxes isn't all it's made out to be.

Labour Laws in the 2 countries vary greatly. In the US the laws side more with the corporations than the workers IMO, in Canada its a bit the other way around (unless of course you're in a unioned occupation, then its basically the same either side of the border.) I'm hoping things with regards to work culture will improve more.

Salaries for the grunts IMO are generally a bit higher in Canada than in the US, but then cost of living is a bit higher in Canada too. It's the same in Europe for lower positions being better paying.

Culturally, Canada is more open minded (generally speaking of course, there are small minded bigots everywhere, including Canada) and liberal than the US. Canada is multi-cultural, where you're encouraged to keep your native culture, whereas the US is a melting pot, and you are encourage to assmiliate to the US way of things. Again, sounds like northern Europe only they expect you to go home at some point which is why there's no push to assimilate there. I'm actually from the deep south so I find even the northern US to be more open and light years ahead of the south so that's why i'm looking to move to the northwestern US.

I will point out that if your relative decides to immigrate to Quebec, and later sponsor her family to immigrate there as well, they will be expected to be fluent in French. If they're not, AFAIK, they will not be accepted by Quebec immigration. Any other province in Canada however doesn't care what language you speak, as long as you have a working knowledge of English and/or French. Immgiration laws to Quebec are different than the rest of the country, as are language laws.

My fiance's sister is already completely fluent in French and is studying in Paris on full scholarship. Before she even left Iran she translated an entire book from French into Farsi. She just doesn't want to stay in Paris due to the expense and she thinks the lifestyle is better in Canada. They also already have an uncle in Canada. Their father and brother don't speak French though so I guess they would run into problems.

[Lili 3]

Not paying taxes isn't all it's made out to be.

You speak the truth! I have been here 6 years and I miss the way of life from my home country.

I do pay less taxes here but I have no life. I don't care not having as much money, I just want to enjoy life and die. What is the point of earning lots of moolah if it is to die at a young age...

I can't wait to move back to France...I love the US but I want to enjoy my hubby and life in general. Life is just too short...

Wherever you decide to live, just do it... good luck!

[Cristy 4]

I would say for certain my quality of life is worse in the US than in Canada. A lot of that has to do with isolation but there are other factors.

The medical bills are eating us alive with 5 kids.

We are totally thinking of moving back to Sask. Since I left home prices have gone up drastically. If I go to www.saskjobs.ca there are literally thousands of jobs including a ton with the government. A job with the government was hard to get when I left but I have found at least 10 I am qualified for.

We are looking into jobs to see if we can both get offers and my husband can get a work visa. Once we are there we will decide if we want to stay.

The down side of course is the weather but all things considered that is not so bad.

Never did I think I would miss my country so much.

[Der Bücherwurm 1]

The medical bills are eating us alive with 5 kids.

Wow, 5 kids. You'd definitely be better off in a socialist country with 5 kids. Myself, I don't want any children and Hoom says that's fine with him. So that's one less responsibility/expense to worry about. It doesn't look like we would be able to immigrate to Canada based on the points system so for better or worse we will have to make it in America. At least it will be better for us than Dubai. Then in the future, who knows...maybe we'll retire early to Mexico where it's cheaper and we can live on the beach to relax after a stressful work-life.

[thetreble 19]

Canada isn't a "socialist" country. It seems a lot of people have that misconception. Canadian is a constitutional monarchy, a parliamentary democracy, that currently has a conservative government. Inferring Canada as socialist essentially voids it of all commerce and meaning it is classless. Canada and Venezuela aren't really on the same page, if you get my drift. It seems like the US media plays us as Socialist and gives people the wrong idea.

Christy-sorry to hear you didn't like it here in the US. We all miss our country though and probably didn't realize it until it was gone. When you say you feel isolated...is it because you live in the middle of nowhere? Or is it because you just miss your family and friends.

Edited November 16, 2008 by thetreble

[Der Bücherwurm 1]

I guess that was the wrong term to use. I certainly wasn't thinking socialist in the USSR sense. I was thinking more along the lines of the Social democracy/Welfare state that Norway has. But I don't think Canada is quite the cradle to the grave welfare state to the extreme extent that Norway is.

[DeadPoolX 9]

One drawback of Alberta is culture though. There is a culture here, and it's not all "cowboys" as a lot of Eastern Canadians tend to think, but it is also not too far off from being all yeehaw. Alberta is quite a bit more "Caucasian" than other parts of the country, though I've noticed a lot more visible minorities in the last year than I did 7 years ago when I left to work in the US. You won't get the same nightlife and experience as living in Toronto or Montreal. You pretty much have to go out of your way to find culture and arts in Calgary or Edmonton.

I've only been to Calgary once (and that was merely overnight), but I've been to Edmonton a ton of times. While I'll readily admit the nightlife isn't that great (unless you go to Whyte Ave, which has a lot of fun stuff going on), there is a ton of culture to be seen and had in Edmonton. During the summer months, there are a million-and-one festivals. I've been to CapitalEX, A Taste of Edmonton (free food all over the place!), The Fringe Theatre Festival, the Dragon Boat Races, the Jazz Festival, the Street Performer's Festival, Shakespeare Festival, Works Art & Design Festival, Film Festival, and the Art Walk. There a more festivals and events, too. If you're interested in seeing these, go to The Official Site for Edmonton, Alberta Festival Information and Event Calender and check it out. Plus, Edmonton also has North America's largest shopping mall. It's no longer the largest in the world. I believe some mall in China has take it's place.

Edmonton gets a somewhat bad name as being a "redneck" town, but it's really not. Perhaps The Stampede in Calgary gives that impression for all of Alberta. But truth be told, Edmonton is actually one of the most cultured cities in Canada. It just doesn't appear that way since the majority of these events take place in the summer and the winter months are longer.

I doubt that a web developer would be an 'in demand' occupation in Canada - and I also doubt it would be grounds for immigration based on shortage.

jedinite, I don't think you can say that Alberta's cost of living compares to the U.S.. The United States is a very big place and the cost of living has a huge huge variation (as it does within Canada).

Unfortunately, the tech-art professions are generally considered unnecessary by many employers. This is mostly due to some major misconceptions and the recent economic environment.

Many people (including employers) see their young kids messing around with image editing programs or building a horrible looking website with Freewebs or some other host. Since very few individuals have any concept of design, they look at this and think, "Well, if my 13 year-old can do it, why do I need to spend money on hiring a professional in that field?" What they forget is that merely having proficiency with a program or knowing some HTML (which is mostly outdated now) does not make them a graphic designer or web developer. The most important parts of those professions is conceptualization and artistic know-how. If you hire someone who's been trained and is a professional in that career, then nine times out of ten you'll get something far better than what a junior high student could accomplish, despite how much they claim to "know" their cracked versions of Photoshop.

As for the economic downturn, that's hurt people in the tech-art fields as well. Due to what I explained above, many employers feel that graphic designers and web developers aren't necessary -- or at least, not so necessary they they need to be kept on salary. Contract work is available, but that's hard to count on. With companies earning less and firing employees, the chances of someone in the tech-art field gaining a salaried position is minimal, at best.

Salaries for the grunts IMO are generally a bit higher in Canada than in the US, but then cost of living is a bit higher in Canada too. But the same could be said from NYC to Austin. Cost of living varies, so do salaries. I have found that generally speaking in the US you get a lot less for your tax dollar than in Canada though. I pay the same in income taxes here in NC as I would in Ontario for a comparable income, and yet here in NC I have much fewer public services available to me for my tax dollar.

As others have said though, when the US economy tanks, the Canadian is not far behind. Canada's economy is tied by umbilical cord to the US. I don't know the percentage, but A LOT of employers in Canada ar US companies, like GM, Ford, yadda yadda yadda...When GM and Ford lay off or shut down plants, they make cuts in Canada as well. And then Canadian owned supplier companies suffer and lay off or shut down until eventually entire towns are dead, just like in the US. HOWEVER, the Canadian banking system was recently declared by the International Finance something or other to be the soundest in the world, so, take that and a couple of bucks to Timmy's and you can get a coffee and a bagel

Culturally, Canada is more open minded (generally speaking of course, there are small minded bigots everywhere, including Canada) and liberal than the US. Canada is multi-cultural, where you're encouraged to keep your native culture, whereas the US is a melting pot, and you are encourage to assmiliate to the US way of things.

Like Reba says, the overall salary rates are generally higher in Canada, but more is taken out for taxation. This might depend on where you live, since the northeast and the west coast of the U.S. costs an arm-and-a-leg to live there (unless you want a small apartment).

I know a lot of people dislike Texas (usually due to misconceptions about the state), but in cities like Houston or Austin, the cost of living is very low. What would net you a relatively small apartment in Vancouver could get you a decently-sized house in Houston. That doesn't mean all of Houston is like that (try living in River Oaks, where all the mansions are situated), but in general, it's less expensive to live. Of course, that might mean lower salaries depending on your work. If you want to be in the tech-art field, I'd recommend Austin or Dallas over Houston, even though I love that city (it's my hometown). Houston has invested more in the oil industry than either Dallas or Austin, both of which take on more "informational and technical jobs." Austin is especially nice if you're looking for a liberal place to live and the buses (if you need them) are 50 cents each way; the Dillo is free and takes you around downtown.

The U.S and Canadian economies are heavily tied in to one another. There are lots of businesses that work on both sides of the border (Best Buy, for instance, owns Future Shop and HBC is owned by an American company, as well) so all of this damages the earnings in both the U.S. and Canada. The Canadian banking system is supposed to be the "safest" in the world, but you'll need to pay monthly fees for an account and transactions or at least, keep a minimum balance. In the U.S., there are tons of "free checking accounts" that cost nothing to have or use.

I don't know if I'd say Canada is more open-minded about cultures or not. Theoretically, Canada is supposed to be a "cultural mosaic" while the U.S. has been called a "melting pot." Sounds nice and easy, but in reality it rarely works that way. I've seen the U.S. become less of a "melting pot" and more of a "mosaic" over the years. People keep to their own communities and in fact, many groups often demand the spotlight for themselves. From what I've seen, this is hardly different from Canada. Maybe it occurs somewhat less often since there are fewer distinct groups in Canada than in the United States.

If anything, I'd say the U.S. is an "anti-melting pot" nowadays, since people generally have little inclination to become "American." People from different countries arrive here and expect (usually demand) that they do everything they way they were used to in their home country, but also get whatever the U.S. has to offer. You can't have it both ways. That doesn't stop anyone, however. Particularly illegals, since they'll demand their "constitutional rights" (when they have none) and even march in the streets. I find that amazing, since they should be arrested and deported the moment they admit to being there illegally.

Canada isn't a "socialist" country. It seems a lot of people have that misconception. Canadian is a constitutional monarchy, a parliamentary democracy, that currently has a conservative government. Inferring Canada as socialist essentially voids it of all commerce and meaning it is classless. Canada and Venezuela aren't really on the same page, if you get my drift. It seems like the US media plays us as Socialist and gives people the wrong idea.

Many think Canada is a socialist country because the government has such a heavy hand in what goes on. I generally prefer the government stay out of my life and do as little as possible. Whenever the government -- any government -- takes matters into its hands, things get screwed up.

[Reba 2]

Definition of Socialism:

Main Entry: so·cial·ism

Pronunciation: \ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm\

Function: noun

Date: 1837

1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

2 a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

Just because Canada has universal healthcare, doesn't make it socialist.

And a list of socialist countries. Canada ain't on it

People often make lists of different types of countries in the world on the basis of their official names, ruling parties, or other indefinitive characteristics. The most realistic way to devise a list of Socialist countries is to base it upon which nations have substantial amounts of state-run industry, numerous govt. social programs, or other traits which make them actually Socialist.

The following is a list of such countries with reasons for including them. Keep in mind that this information is as of 2006, some countries may eventually need to be added or removed from the list.

Cuba: Cuba is one of the most Socialist nations, as it has a mostly state-run economy, universal healthcare, government-paid education at all levels, and a number of of social programs. It does not have a stock exchange.

North Korea: The same is true of North Korea, which has an almost entirely state-run economy, as well as the same social programs mentioned for Cuba. Like Cuba, North Korea does not have a stock exchange.

Venezuela: Economy has more private ownership, but the government social programs are quite extensive and the foreign policy is very left-wing. Cuban doctors and teachers have been brought to Venezuela to provide some medical and educational services.

China: A substantial part of the economy is still state-run, although there are not as many social programs as there once were and universal healthcare has been eliminated. Still has a Socialist-type foreign policy, for the most part.

Vietnam: A significant part of the economy is state-run. Close ties with Cuba, Venezuela, and Belarus.

Syria: Although not commonly referred to as Socialist in the West, Syria has a mostly state-run economy and universal healthcare, along with a left-wing foreign policy.

Belarus: Much of the Belarussian economy is state-run and some govt. social programs are available. Belarus has close ties with Venezuela, China, and other Socialist countries.

Sweden: Mostly private industry, but many well-funded govt. social programs are offered. Universal healthcare and government-provided education at all levels is made available.

source

[DeadPoolX 9]

I'd say that Cuba, China and North Korea are communist, rather than merely socialist. Of course, communism can take on a number of different meanings, ranging from Karl Marx's initial idea to how Stalin ran the Soviet Union.

[thetreble 19]

Canada is not a socialist country. It fails to hit the main points of socialism. Sorry Deadpool, but I believe you are wrong with this one. Just because it has universal healthcare, and a few other minor things like a welfaire system, an air line, etc. that in controls, it doesn't make it socialist.

There is such a huge difference between a country like North Korea and Canada when it comes to social welfare. Those places have totally cut themselves out of the world economy, Canada has not.

We certainly do not go to school for free. I wish we had!

If you wanted the government to stay out, you should have stayed in the US

[DeadPoolX 9]

Canada is not a socialist country. It fails to hit the main points of socialism. Sorry Deadpool, but I believe you are wrong with this one. Just because it has universal healthcare, and a few other minor things like a welfaire system, an air line, etc. that in controls, it doesn't make it socialist.

There is such a huge difference between a country like North Korea and Canada when it comes to social welfare. Those places have totally cut themselves out of the world economy, Canada has not.

We certainly do not go to school for free. I wish we had!

If you wanted the government to stay out, you should have stayed in the US

I don't know what you're referring to here, but I believe you misread my post. I never said that Canada is a socialist country. I merely stated why many think Canada is a socialist country. There's a huge difference between the two statements.

I may think the Canadian government interferes too much, but that's not the same as declaring Canada a socialist country. Even in the U.S., the federal (and certainly the state governments) get involved at times. I highly doubt anyone would call the United States a socialist nation, would they?

Edited November 17, 2008 by DeadPoolX

[thetreble 19]

I guess I just misunderstood you then. Fair enough!