Is General Motors Worth Saving?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I was on a flight once with a SVRT

mean, but funny.

[Marilyn. 340]

hey boys you need to kiss and make up now. this battle has gone on for almost 24hrs and it's getting a bit old. i will be the hug/kiss moderator. now say sorry to each other.

I've blocked the dumbass. Arguing with him is a waste of time.

He doesn't discuss or argue. His approach is I am right you are wrong. I am sure in person he just likes to speak to hear his own voice. Seriously a CA thing. Where they need to draw attention to themselves when speaking.

I was on a flight once with a SVRT who was sitting in the seat behind me. For 6 hours he didn't shut up. Just kept on talking about rubbish. He spoke without pausing. One of those people who lectures rather than discusses. Luckily my friend flew to DC from London and we caught the flight to together otherwise that guy would have driven me nuts. He was whining to another guy, for example, from Europe how hard we work in America and little we get. Just went on and on. The guy was on a holiday and had to put up with his drivel. I laughed when I heard him say he lived in CA.

that sounds like what you guys are doing too ..lol

[Amby 490]

hey boys you need to kiss and make up now. this battle has gone on for almost 24hrs and it's getting a bit old. i will be the hug/kiss moderator. now say sorry to each other.

I've blocked the dumbass. Arguing with him is a waste of time.

He doesn't discuss or argue. His approach is I am right you are wrong. I am sure in person he just likes to speak to hear his own voice. Seriously a CA thing. Where they need to draw attention to themselves when speaking.

I was on a flight once with a SVRT who was sitting in the seat behind me. For 6 hours he didn't shut up. Just kept on talking about rubbish. He spoke without pausing. One of those people who lectures rather than discusses. Luckily my friend flew to DC from London and we caught the flight to together otherwise that guy would have driven me nuts. He was whining to another guy, for example, from Europe how hard we work in America and little we get. Just went on and on. The guy was on a holiday and had to put up with his drivel. I laughed when I heard him say he lived in CA.

I think everyone has went on and on about something at least once in their life.

hey boys you need to kiss and make up now. this battle has gone on for almost 24hrs and it's getting a bit old. i will be the hug/kiss moderator. now say sorry to each other.

I've blocked the dumbass. Arguing with him is a waste of time.

He doesn't discuss or argue. His approach is I am right you are wrong. I am sure in person he just likes to speak to hear his own voice. Seriously a CA thing. Where they need to draw attention to themselves when speaking.

I was on a flight once with a SVRT who was sitting in the seat behind me. For 6 hours he didn't shut up. Just kept on talking about rubbish. He spoke without pausing. One of those people who lectures rather than discusses. Luckily my friend flew to DC from London and we caught the flight to together otherwise that guy would have driven me nuts. He was whining to another guy, for example, from Europe how hard we work in America and little we get. Just went on and on. The guy was on a holiday and had to put up with his drivel. I laughed when I heard him say he lived in CA.

that sounds like what you guys are doing too ..lol

oh damn...marilyn said it so I didn't have to be mean

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

cutting 250,000 gm jobs also cuts jobs such as.....

tire jobs

rim makers

axle makers

joint forgers

transmission builders

gear makers

seat producers

cusion makers

glass manufacturing

molded trim and facia makers

paint formulators

coaters

stamp plants

sub assembly assemblers

light manufacturing

forward and signal lighting

modular component plants

electronics producers

wire harness assemblers

and many many tier 2 suppliers that supply the tier one manufacturers.

ie: the little guys in small towns across AMERICA!

lets not forgot....

police and fireman (because less city taxes will be collected resulting in cuts)

resturant workers (because no one will have the extra money to eat out)

this is where the 2 million figure is coming from. probably a low figure.

and dont put it past the auto workers...alot of them are educated but found they could make more money at a factory then working in their own field. so never say no one is as educated as u...u dont know what people really have as far as educations.

yeah it's called the multiplier effect

Having lived through the recession in the early 80s in Detroit, I would say Donna's list of people here barely scratches the surface of who would be affected.

[Heracles 417]

that sounds like what you guys are doing too ..lol

Hey I might be wrong but from my experiences and that of others whenever we travel and come across Californians, I find they are speaking loudly and drawing attention to themselves. Basically telling everyone their business, stating their opinion or how exciting their life is. While Brits and Aussies can be loud, we don't do it in the way of "listen to me. I am so important". It should be stamped on the passport that when you are traveling "shut-up". No one wants to hear your opinion or life story unless they ask. When speaking keep the amplitude / volume of the conversation so that only someone within 1 foot of you can hear you. Rather than the entire plane or bus.

Edited November 14, 2008 by Aficionado

[natty bumppo 297]

I was on a flight once with a SVRT

mean, but funny.

is this a high mgp model?

[Amby 490]

btw...forgot to add this for you guys

[Marilyn. 340]

that sounds like what you guys are doing too ..lol

Hey I might be wrong but from my experiences and that of others whenever we travel and come across Californians, I find they are speaking loudly and drawing attention to themselves. Basically telling everyone their business, stating their opinion or how exciting their life is. While Brits and Aussies can be loud, we don't do it in the way of "listen to me. I am so important". It should be stamped on the passport that when you are traveling "shut-up". No one wants to hear your opinion or life story unless they ask.

ummmm .....

this is what a lot of you guys so on VJ.. you all try and out do each other.... and think your opinion is the only right one....

[Heracles 417]

I think everyone has went on and on about something at least once in their life.

When most people speak and you overhear, it is usually interesting. I have come across SVRT's where all they do is lecture and speak in a monotone manner.

Edited November 14, 2008 by Aficionado

[HAL 9000 96]

cutting 250,000 gm jobs also cuts jobs such as.....

tire jobs

rim makers

axle makers

joint forgers

transmission builders

gear makers

seat producers

cusion makers

glass manufacturing

molded trim and facia makers

paint formulators

coaters

stamp plants

sub assembly assemblers

light manufacturing

forward and signal lighting

modular component plants

electronics producers

wire harness assemblers

and many many tier 2 suppliers that supply the tier one manufacturers.

ie: the little guys in small towns across AMERICA!

lets not forgot....

police and fireman (because less city taxes will be collected resulting in cuts)

resturant workers (because no one will have the extra money to eat out)

this is where the 2 million figure is coming from. probably a low figure.

and dont put it past the auto workers...alot of them are educated but found they could make more money at a factory then working in their own field. so never say no one is as educated as u...u dont know what people really have as far as educations.

yeah it's called the multiplier effect

Having lived through the recession in the early 80s in Detroit, I would say Donna's list of people here barely scratches the surface of who would be affected.

Pretty much.

I decided not to filter out the pettiness in the previous 5-6-7 pages (lost count) but that is the crux of the situation for those that actually would be on the receiving end of a company like GM going completely bust. I doubt this would actually happen, but perspectives need to be established that do not include people making stupid comments.

[Donna A 4]

I guess that is why he thinks he is smarter than all those who would be affected by GM.

http://thestreetsmartfool.wordpress.com/20...t-companies-ca/

When you look at the top 100 companies in California it is easy to see that these organizations produce and sell some sort of product and service. The googles are clearly the exception. If the IT industry, for example, shut down in California, the state would be ruined.

Given once you weed out his Californian must speak style tirade, I understand what he is generally trying to say. We should not just give nor loan these three manufacturers the money and let them continue with business as usual. Someone needs to sit them and the unions down and say what worked for the past 70 something years no longer works in 2008. So we either restructure from the top down, or we file for Chapter 7 bankruptcy. Chapter 11 is simply not an option for a car company. Relocating the head offices out of Detroit is a must.

If the unions don't agree, then they better give their workers and themselves the bad news that for the next five years they will be SOL. For the UAW this will be the death blow. The UAW either needs to be disbanded or read up on chapter 7.

u dont understand...the unions are giving giving giving. the last contract they gave up raises for the next 4 years. they made a second tier wage. most of the high paid people are gone now...leaving the majority of people making 14 bucks an hour with no benifits at all. these are cuts in the unions eyes not gains. i worked at delphi....all thats left there are people making around 11.00 an hour and no health care at all. this is a union shop. when i was there it took me 10 years to reach full wages and benifits. this is a huge savings for delphi and they still went bankrupt. unions gave up a lot and it didnt matter at all.

as for the $140,000 that in my opinion is reduculus. paying someone 2 years worth of wages and they are not even on the payroll is stupid. im sure this is all apart of this big turn of events. they spent all the money they have to get themselves into problems. its all a pre setting for whats to come. there is no doubt in my mind this was all planned out ahead of time to break the unions...to break the good paying jobs and benifits.

but this is not the american workers fault. its time to stop blamming them. they came to work and made an honest living. none of them was out stealing, selling drugs...etc to get what they have. they did it honestly and now people want to blame them for making an honest living. people have this pre concieved idea that gm people dont work...just sit around all day and drink coffee and socialize....im telling u that work out there is no picnic. im on my feet 8 hours a day doing the same old thing over and over again. car parts are heavy....alot of those jobs people are working over their heads all day long...not only on ur feet but with ur arms raised over ur heads assembling things. u should see how people are walking out of there with bent backs and hands that are numb. trust me it does wonders in the body. its not all rainbows and happy smily faces like everyone thinks. try lifting a altinator of 15 pounds up all night 500 times. that 15 pounds will seam like 90 after an 8 hour shift. try lifting a 10 pound wrench over ur head for 8 hours 500 times. these jobs are not easy as u think. and to be constantly cut down on a daily basis and say the product u make is junk is quite an insult. walk a day in an autoworkers shoes and see what u think then before wishing ill will on them. they are doing absoulty nothing wrong. they go to work, earn their paycheck and go home...whats wrong with that...why wish upon them death just because u dont like their product.

[wsr 0]

What Donna has to realize is that no one is attacking the workers. The union, like in every other industry in America, is blocking progress. If you look at all of the successful industries in this country none of them are union run. Whereas all of the bankrupted industries have high union involvement. Is that a coincidence, I think not. Toyota: very low union involvement. GM: Cannot turn a light on without a union rep being involved in some way. This is not 1920. Unions have no place in 2008. Let alone to pic and choose who is hired as is the case in many NYC unions.

GM being responsible for a workers retirement or health care once they leave GM is wrong and downright stupid. GM should be responsible for their current workers and that is it. Time UAW realizes how the world works in 2008. If I leave my company I don't get a $140,000 payout. It is a case of thanks for coming and have a nice day. Whereas in the AUTO industry you get a payout. ####### is that..

If unions don't agree to stepping down and relinquishing their stranglehold and say on how things are run, then the company should file for chapter 7. Most of the office workers will find work elsewhere. Whereas the majority of the UAW workers will probably end up filing for bankruptcy and probably be living in poverty for a number of years.

Unions vs. the oganizations is like a pendulum. Sometimes it swings to favor the organizations but indeed it has swug too far currently towards the unions favor.

[mawilson 2,133]

He doesn't discuss or argue. His approach is I am right you are wrong. I am sure in person he just likes to speak to hear his own voice. Seriously a CA thing. Where they need to draw attention to themselves when speaking.

I don't have a problem with that, but he's a far-left loon.

It's not GM he hates - he hates America and Americans for choosing big trucks and SUVs over pissy Japanese stuff.

He said it right here:

And the equivalent electric car from Toyota and Honda is? Sorry can't hear you?

There is no BEV Toyota or Honda yet. We've determined that we still love oil enough to make a hybrid, despite the Prius conversions to entirely plug-in/BEV.

That and blaming the Bush tax cuts for the global financial crisis... that's where I draw the line.

[IAMX 3,055]

But SRVT doesn't think this is a big deal at all. I do. I think it will devastate the economy.

You need to examine the mentality behind SVRT's thought process. SVRT worked for google. A company who has made the majority of their profits from a pyramid scheme like process of basically nothing. So of course in his mind who cares about an industry which actually makes something when you can form a google, get a few patents and then make billions off clicks. This sort of funny money is what f####d this economy up in the first place. China and co on the other hand have sustainable economies which actually produce something. Rather than a dot.com about nothing industry. This is why I at least respect Microsoft because they actually produce and sell something.

SVRT seems like the kind of guy to hate Microsoft but have no problems with monopolies like google. Am I wrong SVRT?

That's weird, between Google Earth, Gmail, their search engine, and advertisements (Adwords, Adsense), it seems they're quite successful, and unlike Microsoft, don't treat their employees like ####. I sense quite a bit of jealousy on your side for those who are actually smart, and don't need to try to do e-####### measuring on an internet forum. How goes that hunt for my identity?

At any rate, the mere fact that people have to sit there and say GM filing bankruptcy is the end of the auto industry, and say aaaallllll the jobs that are going to be lost (someone asserted TEACHERS will be gone ) pretty much sets the bar for what intellect is behind that side of the argument. Sounds an awful lot like the Prop 8 advertisements that allowing gay marriage is going to have the schools turn kids gay.

[Marilyn. 340]

He doesn't discuss or argue. His approach is I am right you are wrong. I am sure in person he just likes to speak to hear his own voice. Seriously a CA thing. Where they need to draw attention to themselves when speaking.

I don't have a problem with that, but he's a far-left loon.

It's not GM he hates - he hates America and Americans for choosing big trucks and SUVs over pissy Japanese stuff.

He said it right here:

And the equivalent electric car from Toyota and Honda is? Sorry can't hear you?

There is no BEV Toyota or Honda yet. We've determined that we still love oil enough to make a hybrid, despite the Prius conversions to entirely plug-in/BEV.

That and blaming the Bush tax cuts for the global financial crisis... that's where I draw the line.

how in the heck does that equate to him hating Americans ???