Is General Motors Worth Saving?

[mawilson 2,133]

Guess what, when a gallon of gas costs $1-2, who's going to want to buy a hybrid?

Guess what, when it isn't going to stay that way, who's going to want to keep shitty gas guzzlers? The market spoke for itself.

I personally like powerful muscle cars and couldn't care less about fuel economy.

I also like SUVs - the bigger, the better. Not everyone wants a wimpy Japanese econobox.

[Empress of Groovy 373]

unions have nothing to do with it. union workers are the lowest paid employees at gm...how are lowest paid ruining the company? people have nothing else in their simple little minds to use for excuses except blaming unions.

Union benefits add about $1800 to the price of a car. The foreign companies who build cars here aren't crippled with this.

Another argument for a change in the U.S. healthcare funding scheme...

[EstebanTrabajos 7]

[IAMX 3,055]

Guess what, when a gallon of gas costs $1-2, who's going to want to buy a hybrid?

Guess what, when it isn't going to stay that way, who's going to want to keep shitty gas guzzlers? The market spoke for itself.

I personally like powerful muscle cars and couldn't care less about fuel economy.

I also like SUVs - the bigger, the better. Not everyone wants a wimpy Japanese econobox.

Funny, because the better half and I are looking at hybrid SUVs. The problem with SUVs isn't the fact that they're SUVs. It's that their general mileage f*cking sucks. Hybrids have made this far more feasible. And with a family, as well as plenty of friends, that I like taking out places, it's better to do it in a car with more room. Which is why a van isn't off the table either.

At the same time, logic says, for combustible engines, the bigger car you get, the worse mileage you get as more fuel is needed to pull the weight, the more money you waste. The more people with bigger cars, the more gas gets used, the lower supply gets (remembering crude is not an infinite resource), the higher the price gets. Is this a difficult concept to grasp?

If you want powerful, there's now Tesla Roadsters. Pure electric, pure clean energy output from the car, 0-60 in 4. Guaranteed more like this are on it's way.

All it requires is forward thinking. The one thing you're missing in all your "I likes", and "I wants". Not to mention the "wimpy" perception of Japanese cars, which is clearly jealousy. This GM problem and GM going down is a solution because it means American cars, to survive, MUST start looking forward, rather than rely on the typical American business model of strangling the consumer and removing their options.

[mawilson 2,133]

At the same time, logic says, for combustible engines, the bigger car you get, the worse mileage you get as more fuel is needed to pull the weight, the more money you waste. The more people with bigger cars, the more gas gets used, the lower supply gets (remembering crude is not an infinite resource), the higher the price gets. Is this a difficult concept to grasp?

I personally don't care if it's $2/gallon or $10/gallon, but I understand that most people do.

GM understand it too. They

1) have ended truck production at four plants that build full-sized pickup trucks and SUVs

2) are considering selling the Hummer brand

3) are adding a third shift to its small-car plant in Orion, MI plant which builds the Chevy Malibu and Pontiac G6

4) are adding a third shift to its small-car plant in Lordstown, OH which builds the Chevy Cobalt and Pontiac G5

5) have approved production funding for the Chevy Volt (gas-electric hybrid) and will start bulding it in Hamtramck, MI in 2010

They are restructuring as best they can. What else do you want them to do?

[natty bumppo 297]

At the same time, logic says, for combustible engines, the bigger car you get, the worse mileage you get as more fuel is needed to pull the weight, the more money you waste. The more people with bigger cars, the more gas gets used, the lower supply gets (remembering crude is not an infinite resource), the higher the price gets. Is this a difficult concept to grasp?

I personally don't care if it's $2/gallon or $10/gallon, but I understand that most people do.

GM understand it too. They

1) have ended truck production at four plants that build full-sized pickup trucks and SUVs

2) are considering selling the Hummer brand

3) are adding a third shift to its small-car plant in Orion, MI plant which builds the Chevy Malibu and Pontiac G6

4) are adding a third shift to its small-car plant in Lordstown, OH which builds the Chevy Cobalt and Pontiac G5

5) have approved production funding for the Chevy Volt (gas-electric hybrid) and will start bulding it in Hamtramck, MI in 2010

They are restructuring as best they can. What else do you want them to do?

serve me breakfast every morning

[wsr 0]

If you want powerful, there's now Tesla Roadsters. Pure electric, pure clean energy output from the car, 0-60 in 4. Guaranteed more like this are on it's way.

$109,000 car? Not marketable to everyone.

[IAMX 3,055]

$109,000 car? Not marketable to everyone.

It always starts that way. HDTV's weren't exactly cheap either when they first came out. Plus the battery cost is a pretty big hit.

At the same time, logic says, for combustible engines, the bigger car you get, the worse mileage you get as more fuel is needed to pull the weight, the more money you waste. The more people with bigger cars, the more gas gets used, the lower supply gets (remembering crude is not an infinite resource), the higher the price gets. Is this a difficult concept to grasp?

I personally don't care if it's $2/gallon or $10/gallon, but I understand that most people do.

GM understand it too. They

1) have ended truck production at four plants that build full-sized pickup trucks and SUVs

2) are considering selling the Hummer brand

3) are adding a third shift to its small-car plant in Orion, MI plant which builds the Chevy Malibu and Pontiac G6

4) are adding a third shift to its small-car plant in Lordstown, OH which builds the Chevy Cobalt and Pontiac G5

5) have approved production funding for the Chevy Volt (gas-electric hybrid) and will start bulding it in Hamtramck, MI in 2010

They are restructuring as best they can. What else do you want them to do?

It's not as much about what they are doing now. It's about their mistakes they made in recent years to hang themselves. Toyota already has a hybrid established and is shown to be very reliable, as well as Honda. They have subsidiaries that also tout the very same. The only hope I think GM has is to immediately turn to alternative fuel sources, go straight to BEV, or FCV, and return to the EV1 days they could be reaping the rewards now over Toyota from had they not been retarded. But since there's so much more of a statement made toward consumers in their throwing away the viable EV1, it will be extremely tough to get my confidence back in them.

[rocks 494]

Well it would seem we're in a once-in-a-lifetime situation here - so it would seem prudent to ask whether more (and more importantly - more lasting) damage to the economy will result from not propping up these companies rather than letting them fail.

Letting GM fail = Great Depression 2

give me a break, u r saying that the american economy rests on GM's shoulders??

About 5% of the economy - 5% of US employment and 4% of GDP.

and what other companies are under gm?

apparently these... Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GM Daewoo, GMC, Holden, Hummer, Opel, Pontiac, Saab, Saturn, Vauxhall, and Wuling

i'm all for buick going under. they used to make such nice looking cars...

[Amby 490]

At the same time, logic says, for combustible engines, the bigger car you get, the worse mileage you get as more fuel is needed to pull the weight, the more money you waste. The more people with bigger cars, the more gas gets used, the lower supply gets (remembering crude is not an infinite resource), the higher the price gets. Is this a difficult concept to grasp?

I personally don't care if it's $2/gallon or $10/gallon, but I understand that most people do.

GM understand it too. They

why the hell can you say that and not get b*tched out? I said that a few months ago and was fire bombed.

[Amby 490]

Guess what, when it isn't going to stay that way, who's going to want to keep shitty gas guzzlers? The market spoke for itself.

Personally, I think the non gas guzzlers are pretty sh*tty. I want to keep my gas guzzler.

[Amby 490]

If we can spend $700,000,000,000 on banks and $150,000,000,000 on AIG alone, we should certainly loan money to a company which actually produces something. There should be conditions to this. The big three need a complete overhaul. From the top down.

who would buy a ford and a gm? Japanese cars are better a little expensive but worth till its last breath..

which japanese cars are expensive?

[wsr 0]

$109,000 car? Not marketable to everyone.

It always starts that way. HDTV's weren't exactly cheap either when they first came out. Plus the battery cost is a pretty big hit.

At the same time, logic says, for combustible engines, the bigger car you get, the worse mileage you get as more fuel is needed to pull the weight, the more money you waste. The more people with bigger cars, the more gas gets used, the lower supply gets (remembering crude is not an infinite resource), the higher the price gets. Is this a difficult concept to grasp?

I personally don't care if it's $2/gallon or $10/gallon, but I understand that most people do.

GM understand it too. They

1) have ended truck production at four plants that build full-sized pickup trucks and SUVs

2) are considering selling the Hummer brand

3) are adding a third shift to its small-car plant in Orion, MI plant which builds the Chevy Malibu and Pontiac G6

4) are adding a third shift to its small-car plant in Lordstown, OH which builds the Chevy Cobalt and Pontiac G5

5) have approved production funding for the Chevy Volt (gas-electric hybrid) and will start bulding it in Hamtramck, MI in 2010

They are restructuring as best they can. What else do you want them to do?

It's not as much about what they are doing now. It's about their mistakes they made in recent years to hang themselves. Toyota already has a hybrid established and is shown to be very reliable, as well as Honda. They have subsidiaries that also tout the very same. The only hope I think GM has is to immediately turn to alternative fuel sources, go straight to BEV, or FCV, and return to the EV1 days they could be reaping the rewards now over Toyota from had they not been retarded. But since there's so much more of a statement made toward consumers in their throwing away the viable EV1, it will be extremely tough to get my confidence back in them.

Chevy Volt will be 35k. The Tesla is like a luxury electric vehicle.

The problem is GM's SUVs and trucks were selling up until this year when gas prices went up and people started not buying them and turning them in. GM stuck with them because they were selling and as others have pointed out, the most profitable vehicles. Suddenly the market shifted and everyone wants a small vehicle and GM didn't have the resources to switch their production lines at the blink of an eye. Yes it can be argued that they should have seen it coming and prepared so it possibly is bad management because they weren't innovative enough.

The EV1 was planned from the beginning to be a test market. The battery wasn't that good either and the technology for the batteries wasn't there yet. It is now so I agree yes there should be more similar vehicles today. But right now everyone is saying the future is in the plug-in hybrids i.e. Volt.

[Amby 490]

Move to Canada. You don't like it here anyway.

I like it just fine in California. Do you enjoy being wrong?

Let's settle this like gentlemen. You're a #######.

[mawilson 2,133]

who would buy a ford and a gm? Japanese cars are better a little expensive but worth till its last breath..

which japanese cars are expensive?

Lexuses/Lexi?

It's like, "hey, let's pay $70,000 for a Toyota"