marry or go home?

[tkmarlow 0]

mox, you are misunderstanding my position on intimacy. I don't have a fixation on it but rather a healthy perspective about intimacy, understanding that it is a very important part of a relationship, especially in the beginning (before marriage) and early in a marriage. It is huge milestone in a relationship to reach. It can be the "glue" in a relationship when times are tough and people can be less critical on their partner when they have a healthy intimacy. so...very important. I think most people reading this would agree.

I hope I'm misunderstanding you, but I don't think that I am. You said in an earlier post that you are very inexperienced relationship-wise. Based on that, and what you've said in the intervening time, I think you're putting too much of an emphasis on it. Intimacy is not the "glue" in a relationship, and it sure as hell is not going to get you through tough times. Trust, honesty, and respect...these are all "glues." Intimacy is an expression of all these things, not a thing in and of itself. Without these other things, it's not intimacy, it's just sex. And hey, "just sex" is fine and dandy, but if you believe it can be a foundation of your relationship then you will be disappointed.

The picture of your relationship that you've painted in your posts says that you don't have a full set of trust, honesty, and respect in your relationship. This is why I believe she's not willing to be intimate with you. So I'll say it again: The lack of intimacy is a symptom, not a problem. Work on the rest of your relationship and the intimacy will follow.

Anyway, that's my last word on the subject. You're an adult and should make your own decisions. I really do wish you the best of luck, and please drop back by the RU forum with whatever happens.

Just to add a girl's point of view. There are alot of girls out there that could live their lives perfectly fine without sex. She may be one of them. Also pressure from guys to have sex, can turn a girl away from them. Alot of girls appreciate quality time more then intimacy. Just something to think about. Anyhow, good luck with your challenges.

[Kotenochek 0]

Kotenochek: like the comment about the economy, so true. that is a tough one to convey to her though. she thinks a man should not have any financial problems, regardless of economy. she just does not get it yet. I try to do everything I can to keep her from being lonely. I try to spend time with her everytime I am not working. frequently she tells me "leave me alone right now" or she will walk out of the room when I walk in. I helped her find some girlfriends too (Ukrainian living here near us)

no bitterness to anyone and thanks for all the well wishes

was she always that way/did she ever show you some love?how did you gree to bring ber over/did she agree to marry you?

[Mrs.J06 4]

mox, you are misunderstanding my position on intimacy. I don't have a fixation on it but rather a healthy perspective about intimacy, understanding that it is a very important part of a relationship, especially in the beginning (before marriage) and early in a marriage. It is huge milestone in a relationship to reach. It can be the "glue" in a relationship when times are tough and people can be less critical on their partner when they have a healthy intimacy. so...very important. I think most people reading this would agree.

I hope I'm misunderstanding you, but I don't think that I am. You said in an earlier post that you are very inexperienced relationship-wise. Based on that, and what you've said in the intervening time, I think you're putting too much of an emphasis on it. Intimacy is not the "glue" in a relationship, and it sure as hell is not going to get you through tough times. Trust, honesty, and respect...these are all "glues." Intimacy is an expression of all these things, not a thing in and of itself. Without these other things, it's not intimacy, it's just sex. And hey, "just sex" is fine and dandy, but if you believe it can be a foundation of your relationship then you will be disappointed.

The picture of your relationship that you've painted in your posts says that you don't have a full set of trust, honesty, and respect in your relationship. This is why I believe she's not willing to be intimate with you. So I'll say it again: The lack of intimacy is a symptom, not a problem. Work on the rest of your relationship and the intimacy will follow.

Anyway, that's my last word on the subject. You're an adult and should make your own decisions. I really do wish you the best of luck, and please drop back by the RU forum with whatever happens.

This is excellent advice, and I couldn't agree more.

Intimacy is a very important part of a relationship, I think, but unfortunately it is often withheld as a means of "punishment". As Mox said, you need to find out what issues she has. If she is not satisfied with her life here, you need to find out why she came in the first place: to make a life WITH YOU, to be WITH YOU, or to have a better life in the US. Nothing wrong with part 2, but part 1 needs to be important for her, too! She can help having a better life, but the main reason for her to be in the US should be you. If that's not the case, she should have applied for an employment-based visa!

I can't imagine not being able to communicate, it must be extremely tough. I remember in my first year I felt quite isolated at times because of the language issue, and I was as good as fluent since I had worked in English-speaking countries for lengthy periods of time before! Still, I sometimes felt I didn't get the stuff between the lines and being in a big group of people with slang going back and forth was a struggle, too.

She needs to learn English, and quick. How else can you form a bond if not by communication?

Good luck!

[wifetobe 2]

Hi All,

I would like some ideas from the VJ audience. I can make the decisions but I am curious as to what others would do in my situation. My fiancé is here in the United States (New Jersey) with me and her K-1 expires December 6th. We rushed the K-1 filing before letting our relationship develop. So when she arrived, we really did not know each other well. Things started out okay but have gone downhill since. In short, I feel like I have a roommate in my house and not someone who is falling in love with me, or if she is, she has a strange way of showing it. There is little affection and we sleep in separate rooms. We both have never married and are both inexperienced in relationships. We both have lived alone before now. We have had arguments but never anything violent and no yelling. I have been very clear that I want a serious relationship and marriage whereas she has not. She comes from eastern Ukraine and is paranoid about trust (which I am told is a common mentality there?). She has difficulty trusting anyone including me. So her big obstacle to opening up to me is trust, in my opinion. In any case, I am planning the marriage but I have her plane ticket to return home also if we don’t marry. My hope is she has a change of heart and warms up to me before she has to leave but it seems only a miracle can make that happen. So I am contemplating marrying her and hoping it works out. That seems our only option if we need more time together, short of her going home and re-applying for a K-1, etc.

Does anyone know someone who has married to satisfy the K-1 visa but shortly after divorced?

Please no wise remarks or clichés like “if it was meant to be, it will be”

Thanks

Without being another bug on your shoulder I had to highlight some of your above sentences.. If I may ask, why is there an urgency to apply for a K1 knowing she is not ready for marriage? I'm no expert on your relationship mate neither do I know either of you but the way it seems is though she is enjoying your 'roommateship' more than having to trust you at your pace rather than in her pace. Marriage as you know is a very serious commitment and a dicey thing at times....IMO trust is more important than love sometimes but like I said I am no expert on your relationship. Anyway I hope you make the right choices. I wish you the very best of luck

[Niikkidus 0]

Hi All,

I would like some ideas from the VJ audience. I can make the decisions but I am curious as to what others would do in my situation. My fiancé is here in the United States (New Jersey) with me and her K-1 expires December 6th. We rushed the K-1 filing before letting our relationship develop. So when she arrived, we really did not know each other well. Things started out okay but have gone downhill since. In short, I feel like I have a roommate in my house and not someone who is falling in love with me, or if she is, she has a strange way of showing it. There is little affection and we sleep in separate rooms. We both have never married and are both inexperienced in relationships. We both have lived alone before now. We have had arguments but never anything violent and no yelling. I have been very clear that I want a serious relationship and marriage whereas she has not. She comes from eastern Ukraine and is paranoid about trust (which I am told is a common mentality there?). She has difficulty trusting anyone including me. So her big obstacle to opening up to me is trust, in my opinion. In any case, I am planning the marriage but I have her plane ticket to return home also if we don’t marry. My hope is she has a change of heart and warms up to me before she has to leave but it seems only a miracle can make that happen. So I am contemplating marrying her and hoping it works out. That seems our only option if we need more time together, short of her going home and re-applying for a K-1, etc.

Does anyone know someone who has married to satisfy the K-1 visa but shortly after divorced?

Please no wise remarks or clichés like “if it was meant to be, it will be”

Thanks

Tim

Don't do it. If you are having doubts before you are even married, as my husband would say, "that dog won't hunt".

[HiTech 0]

Run forest Run.

Null, It is obvious she does not love you. More time will not change this.

Alyona gave me orders that she want you to know as a Ukrainian woman that she agrees you should end your relationship.

Dale

[DanielParul 50]

She trusted you enough to let you apply for K1 and then to come here all alone and live in the same house? Then she gets influenced with people's stories about their SSN, driver's license being taken care of and expects the same from you. I just feel that somewhere she forgot the part she had to play in this relationship too. She's got it all backward - Get visa, get SSN/driver's license/AOS and then see if she's ready for a marriage and intimacy with you? Does she want the AOS first and then a marriage/relationship with you? (makes me wonder why exactly is she here)

Do you see anything wrong with the picture?

[Brad and Vika 129]

So - I wonder what happened to Noll?

[Fuzzified 0]

while a agree with an earlier comment about chemistry required, there are a few cases where two people start out not really liking each other (even can't stand each other) and then over time as they open their mind and heart, love comes in. This is what I believe also. It is not always "instant" chemistry required. She came expecting a fairy tale perfection and did not come with open mind and open heart.

The basis for just about any chick flick made... ever!

[Caladan 19]

Mox - that bit about being picked up by immigration is not correct. If she is legally changing her status after her visa expired due to marriage she will not be deported. In fact, she cannot leave the country (for years) while the adjudication takes place without being denied re-entry.

What I meant is that on day 91, before she's changed status and is not married, if immigration picks her up then she's in trouble.

Is it really any different than someone who marries on a K-1 but never applies to adjust status? Neither can demonstrate legal presence as both have expired I-94's. Both are accruing overstay time but yet here on VJ people everyday say it is OK to not file AOS for months if not years...

Somehow people think this act of marriage before the I-94 expires is somehow magically different.... Not.

It does change one thing. If you marry within the 90 days, but file later, you adjust off of the K-1. If you don't, then you have to file the I-130 (because you didn't fulfill the terms of the K-1.) In both cases, if nothing is filed, the immigrant is at risk for deportation. (And of course, can't work, can't drive, can't do much at all.) That's why the K-1 isn't supposed to be a 'get to know each other' visa, but one for people who know they want to get married.

And that, to me, would be a bad situation for the young woman. It's a lot to ask someone to jeopardize her legal status. And for the OP, too; it's hard enough to build a relationship, and harder when its success is on a timer with the threat of USCIS in the background.

And what noll said about intimacy; it's a symptom, not a solution. To the OP, for your own sake, try to work on the communication first. "Hate-at-first-sight-but-then-eternal-love-after-hot-sex" is a plot of movies, rarely real life. Communication first.

[Sandrila 1]

Hi All,

I would like some ideas from the VJ audience. I can make the decisions but I am curious as to what others would do in my situation. My fiancé is here in the United States (New Jersey) with me and her K-1 expires December 6th. We rushed the K-1 filing before letting our relationship develop. So when she arrived, we really did not know each other well. Things started out okay but have gone downhill since. In short, I feel like I have a roommate in my house and not someone who is falling in love with me, or if she is, she has a strange way of showing it. There is little affection and we sleep in separate rooms. We both have never married and are both inexperienced in relationships. We both have lived alone before now. We have had arguments but never anything violent and no yelling. I have been very clear that I want a serious relationship and marriage whereas she has not. She comes from eastern Ukraine and is paranoid about trust (which I am told is a common mentality there?). She has difficulty trusting anyone including me. So her big obstacle to opening up to me is trust, in my opinion. In any case, I am planning the marriage but I have her plane ticket to return home also if we don’t marry. My hope is she has a change of heart and warms up to me before she has to leave but it seems only a miracle can make that happen. So I am contemplating marrying her and hoping it works out. That seems our only option if we need more time together, short of her going home and re-applying for a K-1, etc.

Does anyone know someone who has married to satisfy the K-1 visa but shortly after divorced?

Please no wise remarks or clichés like “if it was meant to be, it will be”

Thanks

Tim

you know what you can be together a very long time and still not know someone

you can get married "thinking" you know someone and not really know them

it is a risk either way but ultimately it is your life and happiness and you cant change someone or force their love

you also cant expect things in return when going over the top for someone you love

it is not all storybook romance and happy endings..we dream about it, some people get it but most of the time, this is not reality

Edited December 4, 2008 by sandrila

[Brad and Vika 129]

Hi All,

I would like some ideas from the VJ audience. I can make the decisions but I am curious as to what others would do in my situation. My fiancé is here in the United States (New Jersey) with me and her K-1 expires December 6th. We rushed the K-1 filing before letting our relationship develop. So when she arrived, we really did not know each other well. Things started out okay but have gone downhill since. In short, I feel like I have a roommate in my house and not someone who is falling in love with me, or if she is, she has a strange way of showing it. There is little affection and we sleep in separate rooms. We both have never married and are both inexperienced in relationships. We both have lived alone before now. We have had arguments but never anything violent and no yelling. I have been very clear that I want a serious relationship and marriage whereas she has not. She comes from eastern Ukraine and is paranoid about trust (which I am told is a common mentality there?). She has difficulty trusting anyone including me. So her big obstacle to opening up to me is trust, in my opinion. In any case, I am planning the marriage but I have her plane ticket to return home also if we don’t marry. My hope is she has a change of heart and warms up to me before she has to leave but it seems only a miracle can make that happen. So I am contemplating marrying her and hoping it works out. That seems our only option if we need more time together, short of her going home and re-applying for a K-1, etc.

Does anyone know someone who has married to satisfy the K-1 visa but shortly after divorced?

Please no wise remarks or clichés like “if it was meant to be, it will be”

Thanks

Tim

you know what you can be together a very long time and still not know someone

you can get married "thinking" you know someone and not really know them

it is a risk either way but ultimately it is your life and happiness and you cant change someone or force their love

you also cant expect things in return when going over the top for someone you love

it is not all storybook romance and happy endings..we dream about it, some people get it but most of the time, this is not reality

I just had a chat with the OP, and his SOs plane is due to leave tomorrow. Best guess is she won't be on it. He reports that she has spent the last several weeks "with a friend" and was coming back last night. She did come back - with a Russian guy in a car with NY plates. She collected her things, told our gentle OP that she would see him at the airport, then left. And now you know the rest of the story.

For you posters who were advising this guy to"just give things a chance", well - there you go. A red flag is a red flag. For the rest - good work keepin' it real.

Edited December 5, 2008 by Brad and Vika

[HiTech 0]

Brad & Vika:

I am curious about a few things, Since the time of the first post, when did she leave the apartment, and what did the OP decided to do?

I am also curious if she did get on the plane?

Thanks,

Dale

[KGSodie 0]

I'd further wager that the guy with the NY plates had lots of cash. Not saying she won't find happiness with such a thing, but speaks to her motives.

I only recently found this thread, to my chagrin. I had a lot of comments, but I'm going to limit myself to one. A response to this post:

"Just to add a girl's point of view. There are alot of girls out there that could live their lives perfectly fine without sex. She may be one of them. Also pressure from guys to have sex, can turn a girl away from them. Alot of girls appreciate quality time more then intimacy. Just something to think about."

Though I'm sure there are a lot of girls for whom sex is a chore and not something wonderful to be shared, I disagree with the spirit of this message. Marriage (and any relationship) is about loving and supporting the other person in every way that you can. For some men, I'm sure having a wife for whom sex is a 4 letter word, so to speak, is perfectly acceptable. I imagine that for the majority of men, however, this wouldn't be the case. Sex is a gift, given freely, and is one of the most intimate things two people can share. Heck, it is something that is ONLY shared between the partners in the relationship, and is ONE of the things that separates the relationship from everything else, if you follow my meaning.

It's like the old joke - a guy goes to a bar wondering if he'll have sex that night, and a girl goes KNOWING. It's a cliche, but that doesn't make it any less true. Sex is no different than any other aspect of a relationship, and sometimes that means compromise. And not just compromise by one party.

I imagine I'll catch a lot of flak for this, but I'm going to press on anyway. Hypothetical situation. A woman often likes to go shopping with her husband. Does the husband always 'want' to go? Does he sometimes go anyway, so that he can spend time with his wife, and because he enjoys doing things for his wife simply because he knows she enjoys them, and he wants to give her this 'gift'? You can change the word 'shopping' to just about any activity, including sex, and you can reverse the gender roles, and you don't change the meaning. I think that's something to think about.

Of course, we're all unique, just like everyone else, and my results can, should, and do vary from yours. :-)

Edited December 5, 2008 by KGSodie

[Brad and Vika 129]

I'd further wager that the guy with the NY plates had lots of cash. Not saying she won't find happiness with such a thing, but speaks to her motives.

I only recently found this thread, to my chagrin. I had a lot of comments, but I'm going to limit myself to one. A response to this post:

"Just to add a girl's point of view. There are alot of girls out there that could live their lives perfectly fine without sex. She may be one of them. Also pressure from guys to have sex, can turn a girl away from them. Alot of girls appreciate quality time more then intimacy. Just something to think about."

Though I'm sure there are a lot of girls for whom sex is a chore and not something wonderful to be shared, I disagree with the spirit of this message. Marriage (and any relationship) is about loving and supporting the other person in every way that you can. For some men, I'm sure having a wife for whom sex is a 4 letter word, so to speak, is perfectly acceptable. I imagine that for the majority of men, however, this wouldn't be the case. Sex is a gift, given freely, and is one of the most intimate things two people can share. Heck, it is something that is ONLY shared between the partners in the relationship, and is ONE of the things that separates the relationship from everything else, if you follow my meaning.

It's like the old joke - a guy goes to a bar wondering if he'll have sex that night, and a girl goes KNOWING. It's a cliche, but that doesn't make it any less true. Sex is no different than any other aspect of a relationship, and sometimes that means compromise. And not just compromise by one party.

I imagine I'll catch a lot of flak for this, but I'm going to press on anyway. Hypothetical situation. A woman often likes to go shopping with her husband. Does the husband always 'want' to go? Does he sometimes go anyway, so that he can spend time with his wife, and because he enjoys doing things for his wife simply because he knows she enjoys them, and he wants to give her this 'gift'? You can change the word 'shopping' to just about any activity, including sex, and you can reverse the gender roles, and you don't change the meaning. I think that's something to think about.

Of course, we're all unique, just like everyone else, and my results can, should, and do vary from yours. :-)

I think you are dead on the mark KG. This is one of those red flags that I was talking about. The OP cites his lack of experience in relationships of this type. Fair enough, but the flag was there, and most every one mentioned it to him. When she got off the plane and immediately refused to be touched (in any way - even casually) that was a HUGE indicator of insincerity. Noll accepts this now, and by the way acknowledges that those of us with advice that he use caution or walk away were correct - and he can see it clearly, in hindsight anyway.

I don't know if the OP will appear here again. I regurgitate all of this in the hope that some one else who finds himself/herself in the situation might read it and find our posts helpful. The men who post here all know the narcotic effect that the affection of our Eastern European "girly girls" has on us, so we can understand some lapses in judgement. I think we all wish the OP well.