marry or go home?

[Knoll 1]

Thanks again to everyone for great advice and hopefully it may benefit other readers besides me. That was why I posted this to get information to make an "informed" decision, to know the possible things that can happen based on the path we choose.

Bottom line is I rushed the visa because I believed she would warm up to me once we were together in the USA. Mistake! She even admits it to me that she was not prepared, I think we both were not prepared.

while a agree with an earlier comment about chemistry required, there are a few cases where two people start out not really liking each other (even can't stand each other) and then over time as they open their mind and heart, love comes in. This is what I believe also. It is not always "instant" chemistry required. She came expecting a fairy tale perfection and did not come with open mind and open heart. Unfortunately, she has friends that reinforce this notion because one of her friends married American but he was rich and had everything organized for her very quickly, like Social number, driver license, etc. but I told her their relationship may have been different and more advanced before she came, I would have done same if you were in love with me before arrival, even if you were warmer to me when you got here.

so of course when her girlfriend bragged about how good it was for her having everything, this made her upset at me because I did not have the social number ordered right away and other things. On good note, she is starting to see that others like her don't have all the things in place yet either and she is less bitchy now. There is one Ukrainian girl she friends with now that is married to American man and has child and still does not have her driver license, for example. So her eyes are starting to open, I think, I hope.

Note to the ladies, don't expect so much perfection, us men are human and we make mistakes, everything does not go perfect like TV or the movies. We may get lost once out of the 30 times we take a trip. Remember the 30 times we got it right not the one time we got lost. But I digress

[payxibka 10,045]

Technically, you might be correct, but if it turns out that marriage is not in the cards, why would you propose that the alien cause a blemish that could impact the potential for a future tourist visa?

That is for them to decide based on the totality of the situation... only they know if there is something to salvage... certainly not any of us here

Well hold on a second here. It's one thing to say, as you said earlier, that this is just one of many options they have. But if you're going to present this option, then it is very important for the OP to understand the ramifications. As I said earlier, and as DM is also saying, it could affect the woman's ability to re-enter this country at a future date. Even worse, once she has passed the 90 days without being married, if she is picked up by immigration (it can and does happen, and it can be something as innocent as a speeding ticket), she could even be deported right then and there, and that would be a very heartbreaking end to their attempt to make their relationship work.

So yes, I agree that this is something "that is for them to decide." But they need to have all the information, which is what I and DM are offering up.

Maybe what you are but DM put in a "why would you propose"... I am simply offering up different roads... I am not trying to opine or propose what the OP should do, it is not my life....

[Brad and Vika 129]

Technically, you might be correct, but if it turns out that marriage is not in the cards, why would you propose that the alien cause a blemish that could impact the potential for a future tourist visa?

That is for them to decide based on the totality of the situation... only they know if there is something to salvage... certainly not any of us here

Well hold on a second here. It's one thing to say, as you said earlier, that this is just one of many options they have. But if you're going to present this option, then it is very important for the OP to understand the ramifications. As I said earlier, and as DM is also saying, it could affect the woman's ability to re-enter this country at a future date. Even worse, once she has passed the 90 days without being married, if she is picked up by immigration (it can and does happen, and it can be something as innocent as a speeding ticket), she could even be deported right then and there, and that would be a very heartbreaking end to their attempt to make their relationship work.

So yes, I agree that this is something "that is for them to decide." But they need to have all the information, which is what I and DM are offering up.

Mox - that bit about being picked up by immigration is not correct. If she is legally changing her status after her visa expired due to marriage she will not be deported. In fact, she cannot leave the country (for years) while the adjudication takes place without being denied re-entry.

Noll - This is still posted on the wrong forum. It appears that your fiance' is from Ukraine - not Russia. There is a forum that covers that, but some mods confuse the two when moving things. Some of the advice you are getting here sounds pretty far off too, but it comes from people who never had a fiance' arrive here in the same situation. Several of us on the Ukraine portal can help. PM me.

Edited November 13, 2008 by Brad and Vika

[mox 298]

Mox - that bit about being picked up by immigration is not correct. If she is legally changing her status after her visa expired due to marriage she will not be deported. In fact, she cannot leave the country (for years) while the adjudication takes place without being denied re-entry.

What I meant is that on day 91, before she's changed status and is not married, if immigration picks her up then she's in trouble.

[Brad and Vika 129]

Mox - that bit about being picked up by immigration is not correct. If she is legally changing her status after her visa expired due to marriage she will not be deported. In fact, she cannot leave the country (for years) while the adjudication takes place without being denied re-entry.

What I meant is that on day 91, before she's changed status and is not married, if immigration picks her up then she's in trouble.

Thanks for clarifying. Mox - I know that you enjoy the web debate very much, and I respect your right to have an opinion. In this case though, I have to (once again) disagree. IMO suggesting the OP start again, so close to the visa expiration, given the situation, is really bad advice. The support obligations alone make it critical that a couple be on the same page before making such a leap. On the interpersonal side, if a woman from the FSU was "feeling the connection", when is her guy ever in doubt of that? They are not a married couple having a rough patch - this is square one.

[Blues Fairy 0]

DO NOT let her overstay 90 days unless a marriage takes place. If unsure, have her go back to UA and start your relationship from scratch (second K1 with the same fiancee is not a problem), if you feel it's still worth it. Bitching and lack of intimacy, however, is not a good sign.

[Brad and Vika 129]

DO NOT let her overstay 90 days unless a marriage takes place. If unsure, have her go back to UA and start your relationship from scratch (second K1 with the same fiancee is not a problem), if you feel it's still worth it. Bitching and lack of intimacy, however, is not a good sign.

Well said Blues Fairy, in your opinion as a woman from the FSU, why would noll's fiance' stay under the circumstances? I have heard that there is a fair amount of derision if a woman is "sent back". Friends and family might view the end of the relationship, or at least the failure to stay long enough to establish residency, as a personal failing. Your thoughts?

[mox 298]

Thanks for clarifying. Mox - I know that you enjoy the web debate very much, and I respect your right to have an opinion. In this case though, I have to (once again) disagree. IMO suggesting the OP start again, so close to the visa expiration, given the situation, is really bad advice. The support obligations alone make it critical that a couple be on the same page before making such a leap. On the interpersonal side, if a woman from the FSU was "feeling the connection", when is her guy ever in doubt of that? They are not a married couple having a rough patch - this is square one.

Okay, yes I like the spirit of a debate. But in this case, I could give a ####### about debating. I really want this guy to do the right thing by this woman, because it's her immigration status that stands to be harmed, not his. So let's drop the "you just like to argue" argument here and now. My concern is for the fiancee.

If there is no marriage, letting her overstay the 90 days WILL put a blemish on her record that could cause her problems down the road. She was told at her interview, and then again at the POE that she had to marry within 90 days. There is no waiver. Yes there are legal avenues she can pursue, and more paperwork she can fill out, but there's a reason that it's a remedy: it's fixing a problem caused by overstaying her visa. And as far as I know, it's not a guarantee. So basically she is completely out of options after 90 days: she has to marry or take her chances. I would never do this to a woman I cared about.

The OP admitted that they rushed into things, and now he realizes that he's dug himself into a hole. Well the first thing you need to do when you realize you've dug yourself into a hole is to stop digging.

[Brad and Vika 129]

Thanks for clarifying. Mox - I know that you enjoy the web debate very much, and I respect your right to have an opinion. In this case though, I have to (once again) disagree. IMO suggesting the OP start again, so close to the visa expiration, given the situation, is really bad advice. The support obligations alone make it critical that a couple be on the same page before making such a leap. On the interpersonal side, if a woman from the FSU was "feeling the connection", when is her guy ever in doubt of that? They are not a married couple having a rough patch - this is square one.

Okay, yes I like the spirit of a debate. But in this case, I could give a ####### about debating. I really want this guy to do the right thing by this woman, because it's her immigration status that stands to be harmed, not his. So let's drop the "you just like to argue" argument here and now. My concern is for the fiancee.

If there is no marriage, letting her overstay the 90 days WILL put a blemish on her record that could cause her problems down the road. She was told at her interview, and then again at the POE that she had to marry within 90 days. There is no waiver. Yes there are legal avenues she can pursue, and more paperwork she can fill out, but there's a reason that it's a remedy: it's fixing a problem caused by overstaying her visa. And as far as I know, it's not a guarantee. So basically she is completely out of options after 90 days: she has to marry or take her chances. I would never do this to a woman I cared about.

The OP admitted that they rushed into things, and now he realizes that he's dug himself into a hole. Well the first thing you need to do when you realize you've dug yourself into a hole is to stop digging.

Sorry to offend Mox - and thanks for making my point. You don't get this because you haven't been in the same situation. If she is already unhappy in the her life with him, the best thing to do is let her go home and sort things out - or not. Getting married, or for that matter starting over at the eleventh hour is not by any stretch the best way to figure out your compatability. So let's drop the "I want this guy to do the right thing" line of discussion. If you haven't been there, you cannot know what the right thing is. The most caring thing to do might be to let her go home and then figure it out.

Edited November 13, 2008 by Brad and Vika

[mox 298]

Sorry to offend Mox - and thanks for making my point. You don't get this because you haven't been in the same situation. If she is already unhappy in the her life with him, the best thing to do is let her go home and sort things out - or not. Getting married, or for that matter starting over at the eleventh hour is not by any stretch the best way to figure out your compatability. So let's drop the "I want this guy to do the right thing" line of discussion. If you haven't been there, you cannot know what the right thing is. The most caring thing to do might be to let her go home and then figure it out.

No offense taken. I just wanted to make it clear that I'm not taking the OP's situation lightly or arguing for my own ego gratification.

For what it's worth, I haven't gone through exactly this situation, but I have gone through something similar, and probably even more devastating. I think I've got the cred required to opine about this.

But I must have a severe case of jet lag because I've completely lost track of where this is going. Re-reading your last post, I completely agree with you. Which...I don't think I was supposed to do. I DO think the best thing for her to do IS go home, rather than overstay her visa as was suggested earlier. And the more I hear from the OP, the more I think that going back to Ukraine in any case is probably the lady's smartest move. It's sounding more and more like neither one of them had realistic expectations.

Going to bed now, maybe it will all make sense in the morning.

[slim 1,523]

Man. Miss a day, miss a lot.

And yes, the Russia Forum is UA friendly. Sure, there's a separate forum for UA specific stuff, but bottom line, girls from UA are just as nuts as girls from the RF so this is a good place to post about all of them.

For the OP......... my two cents - marriage isn't going to change the current situation. The same problems you have now are going to continue, if not get worse. However, once you've put a little time in, you'll learn to live with each other and who knows, it might actually work out for you. If not, ship her back, there are 48,000 more on the website.

That said, if you have feelings for this girl (other than she's hot and permits you to have sex with her sometimes) and you're pretty sure she has feelings for you too (other than you have a little money and could possible give her a better life than what she'd have back home) then give it a shot. It takes a LOOOOOONG time to get a relationship with a foreign girl really going. I still sleep on the couch a lot and I've known my wife for over 8 years! She too showed up expecting a big house and car and to do nothing other than shop with her friends and drink coffee all day while I paid for it all. Reality smacked her in the face and she's working her @$$ off now. But, she knows she has a husband that loves her and we're going to have a good future together as long as we work through it. It was a tough sell though!

As you said in the OP, she showed up expecting the life on MTV or whatever and got hit with the reality of the American Dream. Ask her if she can see you guys together in the long term and if she can't see the positives of it and isn't willing to work together to get it, then ship her @$$ straight back to UA. Be blunt. Be honest. Don't sugarcoat it and don't let it be something that's "lost in translation." Bull$#!t. Either she decides to get down with you and your life together here or she goes home. Plain and simple.

Keep us posted.... and don't be scared to share! I'm sure if you look through this forum there are quite a few good "stories" from those of us that've been through what you're going through now.

GOOD LUCK!!!

[payxibka 10,045]

Mox - that bit about being picked up by immigration is not correct. If she is legally changing her status after her visa expired due to marriage she will not be deported. In fact, she cannot leave the country (for years) while the adjudication takes place without being denied re-entry.

What I meant is that on day 91, before she's changed status and is not married, if immigration picks her up then she's in trouble.

Is it really any different than someone who marries on a K-1 but never applies to adjust status? Neither can demonstrate legal presence as both have expired I-94's. Both are accruing overstay time but yet here on VJ people everyday say it is OK to not file AOS for months if not years...

Somehow people think this act of marriage before the I-94 expires is somehow magically different.... Not.

[Gemmie 142]

Mox - that bit about being picked up by immigration is not correct. If she is legally changing her status after her visa expired due to marriage she will not be deported. In fact, she cannot leave the country (for years) while the adjudication takes place without being denied re-entry.

What I meant is that on day 91, before she's changed status and is not married, if immigration picks her up then she's in trouble.

Is it really any different than someone who marries on a K-1 but never applies to adjust status? Neither can demonstrate legal presence as both have expired I-94's. Both are accruing overstay time but yet here on VJ people everyday say it is OK to not file AOS for months if not years...

Somehow people think this act of marriage before the I-94 expires is somehow magically different.... Not.

I disagree, the entire reason and point of the K1 is that you MUST marry within 90 days of arrival. Adjusting status outside of the 90 days is overlooked as long as you marry within the timeframe and don't leave the US.

To the OP - I'm going to be honest, and this is all my personal view, but you admit yourself that you both weren't prepared for any of this and rushed into getting engaged and moving to be together before you really knew each other. Your age and "hoping she'll warm up to you" isn't going to change the situation. If anything, it would make it worse. Where's the communication? Have you talked to her deeply about your hopes and intentions? About hers? If not, then you're not ready to be married and have an intimate relationship. If you have, you should already know the answer.

Best of luck.

[payxibka 10,045]

If a K-1 visa holder comes to the USA, marries within the 90 day time frame, never files AOS, goes home after one year (for whatever reason), the alien now has accrued sufficient time for a re-entry bar and it is triggered upon departure. The marriage inside 90 days does not save them.

If a K-1 visa holder comes to the USA, marries within the 90 day time frame, files AOS after 3 years, the alien now has accrued sufficient time for a re-entry bar but is ignored as the result of the AOS application and gets a greencard.

If a K-1 visa holder comes to the USA, does not marry within the 90 day time frame (but does marry the petitioner eventually), never files AOS, goes home after one year (for whatever reason), the alien also has accrued sufficient time for a re-entry bar and is triggered upon departure. The marriage outside 90 days has no effect.

If a K-1 visa holder comes to the USA, does not marry within the 90 day time frame (but does marry the petitioner eventually), files AOS after 2 years, the alien also has accrued sufficient time for a re-entry bar but it is ignored as a result of the I-130 petition/AOS application and gets a greencard. Marriage outside the 90 days has no effect.

Moral of the story: Without the AOS application, you ain't got nothing...

[Blues Fairy 0]

Blues Fairy, in your opinion as a woman from the FSU, why would noll's fiance' stay under the circumstances? I have heard that there is a fair amount of derision if a woman is "sent back". Friends and family might view the end of the relationship, or at least the failure to stay long enough to establish residency, as a personal failing. Your thoughts?

I really cannot get inside that woman's head. Perhaps fear of derision upon return; perhaps she's just manipulative and is bitching and withholding intimacy to get some concessions out of her husband. If he has no clue what's going on, how could I possibly tell.