NVC DOESN´T BELIEVE ON THE VERACITY OF MY DOCUMENTS

[Aryadne e Kevin 0]

Ok, VJ´s!

I am pissed. I am in Brazil and my attorney subimmited a certified copy and translation of all of the documents rerquested by packet 3 ( Birth Certificate, Marriage Certificate, Police Records).

Today, my attorney contacted me saying that NVC has denial the above documents stating that they are not ORIGINAL OR CERTIFIED COPIES, BUT THEY ARE!

I tried to call NVC but it is a national holiday and everybody is OFF.

So, I was wondering if anybody has gone through such situation and what was the best way to deal with it: calling and explanning, subimmiting again the same certified copies highlighting the informations or subimmiting THE ORIGINAL ONES....

So, any help is good.

Aryadne

[*Snowdrop* 604]

What exactly is your certified copy? Is it an original document which you obtained from an official source or is it a photocopy which has been notarized?

For example in the UK you can get a certified copy of your birth certificate from the local council. It is not just a photocopy of the original 'first' birth certificate. It's an original document in itself.

I also sent my original marriage certificate in - although when I was married I was given two original certificates so I have one extra in case the NVC have lost the first one.

What did your attorney suggest?

Edited November 11, 2008 by lsma

[payxibka 10,045]

Do they appear to meet the information contained below?

Birth Certificates

Available. Birth certificates (Certidao de Nascimento) may be obtained from the proper Registro Civil (Civil Registry Office) of the district in which the person was born. In large cities these offices are independent of each other and care must be taken to address the office at which the birth is recorded. The fee varies with the locality and depends upon the amount of work involved. Complete (verbatim) copies of the entries may be obtained but must be specifically requested, otherwise a certificate of lesser value in summary form will be given. A person of any age, sex, marital status, religion, nationality or place of residence may obtain a birth certificate.

There is no uniform certificate in Brazil. Certificates are variously written or typed on plain paper or special printed forms. They usually bear a heading indicating the issuing office, and the name of the certifying official, but this is not always true. Certificates are signed by "o oficial do registro civil" (the official of the civil registry office) or an escrivao (scribe). They should bear canceled Brazilian revenue stamps near the signature of the certifying officer.

Marriage and Death Certificates

Available. Marriage certificates and certificates of death are issued in Brazil by the official Civil Registry (Registro Civil). As in the case of birth certificates, the proper office in the larger cities must be addressed, since there is no central office.

Police Records

Certificates of Good Conduct (Atestados de Bons Antecedentes) related to possible violations of state law are available to persons 18 years of age and older from the Secretaria de Seguranca Publica in each of Brazil's states. Atestados related to possible violations of federal law are available to persons 18 years of age and older from any station (Delegacia) of the National Police (Policia Federal). Criminal records in Brazil are expunged five years after any sentence has been served.

Because each state maintains a separate database of violations of state law, a prospective immigrant must obtain a separate record from the Secretaria de Seguranca Publica of each state in which he or she has resided within the past five years. Additionally, a prospective immigrant must obtain a record from the Policia Federal, since state police records do not include violations of federal law.

For addresses or telephone numbers of Secretarias de Seguranca Publica and Delegacias de Policia Federal an applicant may contact the immigrant visa unit of the U.S. Consulate General in Rio de Janeiro or access the consulate’s website at: www.embaixadaamericana.org.br. Federal Certificates are also available through the internet as are some State police certificates. If the applicant is residing outside Brazil, it is highly unlikely that he/she will get the Police certificate (only if he/she has someone with a power of attorney to apply on his/her behalf and if the applicant’s Brazilian ID card was issued by the specific state from which the certificate is being requested).

http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/reciproc...ocity_3521.html

[*JG* 2]

Some things they REQUIRE originals of from the issuing sources. A notary saying they are exact copies of originals will not do on some things.

[HOHOHO 0]

Some things they REQUIRE originals of from the issuing sources. A notary saying they are exact copies of originals will not do on some things.

#######

if they require ORIGINALS only then why don't they just say it then... it says originals OR certified copy....

I'm at this stage myself... I'm guessing that Embassy notarized copies are OK.... thats what I'm shooting for; of course it's more possible since my spouse lives in city where embassy is located.

[Alli and Léo 0]

Well, I am almost at the same place with NVC. My brother has just complete the process before me and his wife is also from Brazil. It seems that he had the exact same problem...I really don't think that NVC knows what they are doing. First up, the marriage certificate was a copy that had been notarized and authenticated...things are done very differently in Brazil and notaries can sometimes authenticate and certify the documents...it all depends on the notary. However this did not seem to be the reason for the problems. My brother finally had to call NVC and spoke to someone that pulled his file to review the documents. That person at the NVC agreed that all documents were acceptable. Still, he did have trouble getting the proper police reports. On the US Consulate's webpage in Rio, there are links to letters that explain the exact type of police reports needed. You will need one from the state police and one from the federal police. My brother's spouse and my spouse as well took these letters to the police so they would understand the type of report needed. Needless to say the police still did not issue the proper type of police report so be careful. If there is not this issue with the police reports then more than likely you just need to call the NVC to have your case reviewed to solve the problem. I'm listing the links for the police reports just incase someone else needs this info. Again this is only for Brazil.

Federal Police Report

http://brasilia.usembassy.gov/pdfs/fedpol.pdf

State Police Report

http://brasilia.usembassy.gov/pdfs/felix.pdf

Hope this helps and good luck!

Edited November 11, 2008 by Alli and Léo

[payxibka 10,045]

Some things they REQUIRE originals of from the issuing sources. A notary saying they are exact copies of originals will not do on some things.

#######

if they require ORIGINALS only then why don't they just say it then... it says originals OR certified copy....

I'm at this stage myself... I'm guessing that Embassy notarized copies are OK.... thats what I'm shooting for; of course it's more possible since my spouse lives in city where embassy is located.

notarization does not authenticate a document as original, particularly if you are speaking about US notaries. The function of foreign notaries vary from country to country

Edited November 11, 2008 by payxibka

[*JG* 2]

I always follow the rule that if I can get another, I send the certified copy from the issuing agency.....marriage certs, divorce decrees, birth papers, police records. If I can't, then I send a notarized copy.....DL, GC, passport. Now, that rule for me, has followed through out the entire process. Not just talking about your part. But, that is the rule I have followed and thus far, it's gone just fine.

[trailmix 77]

Some things they REQUIRE originals of from the issuing sources. A notary saying they are exact copies of originals will not do on some things.

#######

if they require ORIGINALS only then why don't they just say it then... it says originals OR certified copy....

I'm at this stage myself... I'm guessing that Embassy notarized copies are OK.... thats what I'm shooting for; of course it's more possible since my spouse lives in city where embassy is located.

Because generally what you would receive from, say the office that does birth registrations in your country, is not an 'original' it is a certified copy from the original they have on file.

As mentioned, this is not the same as taking a photocopy and having it notarized.

Aryadne - It's not a good thing that your lawyer didn't know that - it should be common knowledge to a good immigration attorney.

Edited November 11, 2008 by trailmix

[Alli and Léo 0]

Correct. I think that some people do not understand the difference between a notarized copy and a certified copy. So everyone please understand that the situations I mentioned above is ONLY for brazil. And again it depends on the notary.

Also, again for Brazil...there is also a police report for those living in Rio but I did not post this before.

[Aryadne e Kevin 0]

Hey, guys!

I subimmited notorized photocopies which is the same like certified copies, don´t they..If not, let me know.

And, my attorney suggested to mail them back highlighiting the points, especially, because on the oficial translation it is state on each of them " THE DOCUMENT SUBIMMITED FOR TRANSLATION CONSISTS OF A DULY AUTHENTICATED COPY OF THE ORIGINAL..."

And, they do appear to meet the informations, payxibica. I went to the right offices and made sure to get the proper documents for IMMIGRATION VISA.. and they confirmed.

Here is what the NVC letter says:

BIRTH and MARRIAGE Certificates: "the document submmited is not an original or certified copy of an original issued by the appropriate govern authority. The document must be an original, or a certified copy of the original, bearing the original seal or stamp from the issuing authority.

BRAZIL POLICE CERTIFICATE: they basically say I didn´t provide neither from the national police nor State Police.

My attorney believes it was a mistake and guessing whoever reviewed this at the NVC did not look carefully at the docs. She will mail them back point out in a cover letter.

IT IS SO STRESSING....

[Alli and Léo 0]

This is exactly the same thing that happened to my brother. My brother submitted a notarized copy of his marriage certificate that had been authenticated and accepted as certified. In Brasil they use these old stamps to notarize documents and there was a different red stamp to authenticate it although if you read the fine print around the notary seal it might also say authenticated. These were accepted by the NVC. The only thing my brother had to do was make a phone call to the NVC to explain that he had already submitted the proper documents. My guess is that you just need to have someone review it again. I do not know who they have working on the cases for Brazil but they really do some stupid things at NVC.

[Paul's Mrs. 0]

I know it's kind of late for this but maybe for people who might soon be in the same situation. Once I was leaving USCIS I filed or original certified copies of everything so that I could have two. I paid another $20 for an additional two marriage certificates that were certified originals. I had my hubby get original certified copies of his birth certificates and I got additional ones for myself. The only papers that I was unable to get original duplicates were for the PCC's. Everything else we now have an additional original certified copy, just in case..... Worth the money and extra paperwork.

[trailmix 77]

Hey, guys!

I subimmited notorized photocopies which is the same like certified copies, don´t they..If not, let me know.

And, my attorney suggested to mail them back highlighiting the points, especially, because on the oficial translation it is state on each of them " THE DOCUMENT SUBIMMITED FOR TRANSLATION CONSISTS OF A DULY AUTHENTICATED COPY OF THE ORIGINAL..."

And, they do appear to meet the informations, payxibica. I went to the right offices and made sure to get the proper documents for IMMIGRATION VISA.. and they confirmed.

Here is what the NVC letter says:

BIRTH and MARRIAGE Certificates: "the document submmited is not an original or certified copy of an original issued by the appropriate govern authority. The document must be an original, or a certified copy of the original, bearing the original seal or stamp from the issuing authority.

BRAZIL POLICE CERTIFICATE: they basically say I didn´t provide neither from the national police nor State Police.

My attorney believes it was a mistake and guessing whoever reviewed this at the NVC did not look carefully at the docs. She will mail them back point out in a cover letter.

IT IS SO STRESSING....

Your attorney is wrong, he has submitted the wrong thing (please see my post above).

Hopefully you will get lucky like Alli and Léo's Brother and they will accept them anyway.

[Alli and Léo 0]

Hope this clarification helps. In Brazil, the civil registry office of birth, death, and marriage certificates is also a notary office. Thus when I say that a notarized copy can sometimes also be a certified copy again it depends on the notary. The government in Brazil does not function the same way that the US government functions. Also there and several different districts in every state/city in Brazil. You must be certain to go to the same civil office that issued the certificate as only that district will issue a new certificate, authenticate, certify, notarize, etc. It is usuall for birth certificates to not look the same as others...depending on the district, time certificate was issued, etc. Furthermore, state governments differ from one another and do not share info.

So, a certified copy can be produced in many different ways in Brazil. The NVC usually understands this which is why notarized and authenticated copies are sometimes accepted. This route to a certified copy is the cheapest and the route to have a certificate reproduced from scratch may be about R$100. If certificates are declined then I suggest that you have certificates reproduced from scratch or a copy notarized, authenticated, and signed with appropriate book and page number. Furthermore, if you submitted the police reports and NVC says that you did not...this is also not unusual. You just need to call and have your case reviewed again. They are always overlooking documents when it comes to these things or at least for whomever is reviewing the cases for Brazil. Usually when you tell them that all of the appropriate documents were sent and have your case reviewed again, there is not a problem.

It is always best to use the US standards for obtaining documents rather than the standards for another country...although valid.