Moving to Russia

[IAMX 3,055]

Will you be able to afford those things if you lose your free oil check?

I told you man, it's direct deposit. No check.

Finding interesting ways in avoiding answering the question.

[Teacher Mark 53]

Im sure you realize the difference in HEALTHcare and what type of car you drive right?

The difference is, right now, I can afford both. If the democrats have their way, I will not be able to afford either.

What will you have to give up to help your fellow WORKING americans?

Again, it's not about being willing to give - it's about being forced to give.

Its all about the "principle" isnt it?

One can claim principle when one donates money to help others. One cannot claim principle when one extracts money from some to give it to others.

How dare you have to give something up so someone else you dont know can take their kid to a doctor for quality healthcare.

Exactly. If they couldn't afford their kid, they shouldn't have had it.

We agree on that one as well.

[NickD 203]

You guys really get off topic, but maybe okay for an Off Topic board.

Bottom line is that Sarah was told to say that restoring the regulations and even coming up with new regulations to make the bankers and Wall street responsible for handling our money is called socialism!

Well, this time the American people didn't buy that load of ####### like that we need less government as stated by Reagan, we are paying the price for that. Making people responsible for their actions is not socialism.

Even St. Paul had his problems when Christian communities were set up based on socialism. It promotes laziness, so he came up with that famous phrase, no work, no food.

[Peikko 1,575]

Can I just say something....As a Brit we 'boast' about our 'free' healthcare. To be honest...what's free about it? If you have a serious healthcare issue, ie. cancer... you have to wait 3 months for a scan, and then if you are diagnosed with cancer then you have to wait another 6 weeks (at least) to see a specialist. By the time you recieve treatment you are terminal!!! This is due to serious strains on our resources...mainly, in my opinion, due to Immigration issues of our own which is a strain on our economy.

The point is, we don't have a choice in this type of healthcare. (Dental treatment is also now mainly 'private' in the UK).

The NHS payments are taken from our salaries whether we like it or not. If I had a choice I would choose to select & choose my own healthcare!

If some one is really sick in the US then they will be treated (same as UK) whether they are legal or not! Why should we pay for this?

So my point is... free or subsidised healthcare isn't the best option.

Simply not true. Not only are there no wait times for serious health problems, you are still at liberty to pay at any time to get the care you want in a different way. The fact is that you pay less in the UK via taxes for a decent level of health care for everyone than you do in the US through health insurance for the opportunity to go bankrupt if you do get something like cancer.

As you mentioned, the only truly privatized area is dental treatment - and guess what's happened with that? Most people no longer get the preventative care they used to and very few people can afford the correct treatments for the more serious dental problems that arise. I took a 'cheaper' option (paying 1500 instead of 6000 for a proceedure) and am still paying for that 'mistake' in continual treatments three years later.

You ask one question, why should people pay for the really sick no matter what in the UK and the US? It's called living in a first world country where human rights are respected - people dying in the streets doesn't 'look' good nor do most civilized people feel that they want to live in such a way that some people are simply left to rot. Sadly, the US way of doing things is rather more expensive (using ER rooms for primary care giving) than the UK and other universal health care models.

[Y's_habibitk 2]

Im sure you realize the difference in HEALTHcare and what type of car you drive right?

The difference is, right now, I can afford both. If the democrats have their way, I will not be able to afford either.

and you really believe this? wow. I guess I would be angry and frieghtened too, if I had paranoid ideas of what "the others" had planned for me.

What will you have to give up to help your fellow WORKING americans?

Again, it's not about being willing to give - it's about being forced to give.

So, you didnt really answer.. so it is the principal of having to help

Its all about the "principle" isnt it?

One can claim principle when one donates money to help others. One cannot claim principle when one extracts money from some to give it to others.

How dare you have to give something up so someone else you dont know can take their kid to a doctor for quality healthcare.

Exactly. If they couldn't afford their kid, they shouldn't have had it.

aha. So, in your world parents dont die suddenly or lose their jobs. I guess you are also of the school that people should just stop having children? Imagine if only 250k+ a year had children. ha!

Nationalized healthcare is nowhere in thi country's future anyway.

Edited November 8, 2008 by Y_habibitk

[MonkeyJuice 3]

Can I just say something....As a Brit we 'boast' about our 'free' healthcare. To be honest...what's free about it? If you have a serious healthcare issue, ie. cancer... you have to wait 3 months for a scan, and then if you are diagnosed with cancer then you have to wait another 6 weeks (at least) to see a specialist. By the time you recieve treatment you are terminal!!! This is due to serious strains on our resources...mainly, in my opinion, due to Immigration issues of our own which is a strain on our economy.

The point is, we don't have a choice in this type of healthcare. (Dental treatment is also now mainly 'private' in the UK).

The NHS payments are taken from our salaries whether we like it or not. If I had a choice I would choose to select & choose my own healthcare!

If some one is really sick in the US then they will be treated (same as UK) whether they are legal or not! Why should we pay for this?

So my point is... free or subsidised healthcare isn't the best option.

Simply not true. Not only are there no wait times for serious health problems, you are still at liberty to pay at any time to get the care you want in a different way. The fact is that you pay less in the UK via taxes for a decent level of health care for everyone than you do in the US through health insurance for the opportunity to go bankrupt if you do get something like cancer.

As you mentioned, the only truly privatized area is dental treatment - and guess what's happened with that? Most people no longer get the preventative care they used to and very few people can afford the correct treatments for the more serious dental problems that arise. I took a 'cheaper' option (paying 1500 instead of 6000 for a proceedure) and am still paying for that 'mistake' in continual treatments three years later.

You ask one question, why should people pay for the really sick no matter what in the UK and the US? It's called living in a first world country where human rights are respected - people dying in the streets doesn't 'look' good nor do most civilized people feel that they want to live in such a way that some people are simply left to rot. Sadly, the US way of doing things is rather more expensive (using ER rooms for primary care giving) than the UK and other universal health care models.

Sorry but I disagree. THERE ARE wait times for serious health problems and the reason I quoted specific wait times is because I know of a person who experienced this when she was diagnosed with cancer. It was only was she was in extreme pain that she was admitted via accident & emergency where she then received tests & treatment. So you would think that the alternative would to be to go private? Well why should a person at 65 years old revert to private healthcare after paying into the system for so long?

With regard to the 'human rights' issue...I say many immigrants (not all) take advantage of this. They come specifically to UK or US to use the system to their advantage and tax payers who have paid into the system for many years pay the price due the strain on free healthcare!

[panamania79 2]

It is inhumane if you have an illness and cannot afford medication or treatment.

Inhumane is forcing others to provide for your needs.

Greed is inumane also.

[rocks 494]

I'm all for helping people.

quit complaining then.

[NickD 203]

In 1980 was paying 126 bucks per month for a none-deductible family health plan, today that same plan is 1,020 bucks, what's wrong with that, only an eight times increase in price. And this is provided you do not have a preexisting health problem, goes way the hell up in price if you can even get health insurance. Wouldn't be bad if my salary increased at the same rate, but barely not much higher than in 1980, with all the layoff's a lot of competition, so besides lower pay, have to work that much harder to keep my job. Does this sound typical?

[mawilson 2,133]

Imagine if only 250k+ a year had children. ha!

Wouldn't that be fantastic.

[NavarreMan 10]

Why would i spit in your face? You didnt ask me for help.

Uh...ok.

All im saying is, no one is being FORCED to help anyone, we will become the nation everyone claimed to be all this time, a nation that looks out for eachother and helps eachother. If you think thats forcing ppl to take care of eachother, than theres nothing wrong with the rest of us.

Alrighty then.

Ultimately, what is being argued here is my right to my money versus your right to my money. That's the bottom line.

So it is OK then to give your money to the companies that benefit from the privatization of our government. It's OK to pour it all into a few companies that are getting filthy rich but not OK to help someone who got laid off because their job was moved overseas. Not OK to help someone who lost a home in Katrina and the insurance company skidaddled without paying up?

I understand that we do not want to keep giving to those who won't help themselves, but I was laid off once and I collected unemployment and welfare for a short time while I searched for another job. It saved my family and our house. I am glad that my employers pay this insurance and I am glad that for the short time I needed it, the help was there for us. I was not proud of it but was very grateful that our system actually worked for me. Thank you employer and thank you America.

[Blues Fairy 0]

How is healthcare a human rights issue? Does the fact that you have to pay for it seem somehow inhumane?

It is inhumane if you have an illness and cannot afford medication or treatment.

If you cannot afford treatment, you go into the hospital and get treated for free; they cannot deny you help in this country. That's what illegals mostly do here and that's, among other things, what drives the hospital prices so high for those who can pay. Hence the high insurance premiums. Kind of a vicious circle isn't it.

If you guys think nationalized healthcare is an answer you are sorely mistaken. It does nothing but lowers the standards for everyone and increase the bureaucracy and wait times. Something in high demand, such as medical services, should NEVER be nationalized.

Edited November 9, 2008 by Blues Fairy

[rocks 494]

How is healthcare a human rights issue? Does the fact that you have to pay for it seem somehow inhumane?

It is inhumane if you have an illness and cannot afford medication or treatment.

If you cannot afford treatment, you go into the hospital and get treated for free; they cannot deny you help in this country. That's what illegals mostly do here and that's, among other things, what drives the hospital prices so high for those who can pay. Hence the high insurance premiums. Kind of a vicious circle isn't it.

what if you require specialist treatment or medication? you don't know what you are saying.

[IAMX 3,055]

How is healthcare a human rights issue? Does the fact that you have to pay for it seem somehow inhumane?

It is inhumane if you have an illness and cannot afford medication or treatment.

If you cannot afford treatment, you go into the hospital and get treated for free; they cannot deny you help in this country. That's what illegals mostly do here and that's, among other things, what drives the hospital prices so high for those who can pay. Hence the high insurance premiums. Kind of a vicious circle isn't it.

If you guys think nationalized healthcare is an answer you are sorely mistaken. It does nothing but lowers the standards for everyone and increase the bureaucracy and wait times. Something in high demand, such as medical services, should NEVER be nationalized.

So your suggestion is everyone else should be at risk because a few people who get hurt here are illegals?

I guess you don't realize taxpayers pick up the tab anyways.

But nonetheless exemplary of a "me me me me me" class who don't really think much beyond that.

[Peikko 1,575]

Can I just say something....As a Brit we 'boast' about our 'free' healthcare. To be honest...what's free about it? If you have a serious healthcare issue, ie. cancer... you have to wait 3 months for a scan, and then if you are diagnosed with cancer then you have to wait another 6 weeks (at least) to see a specialist. By the time you recieve treatment you are terminal!!! This is due to serious strains on our resources...mainly, in my opinion, due to Immigration issues of our own which is a strain on our economy.

The point is, we don't have a choice in this type of healthcare. (Dental treatment is also now mainly 'private' in the UK).

The NHS payments are taken from our salaries whether we like it or not. If I had a choice I would choose to select & choose my own healthcare!

If some one is really sick in the US then they will be treated (same as UK) whether they are legal or not! Why should we pay for this?

So my point is... free or subsidised healthcare isn't the best option.

Simply not true. Not only are there no wait times for serious health problems, you are still at liberty to pay at any time to get the care you want in a different way. The fact is that you pay less in the UK via taxes for a decent level of health care for everyone than you do in the US through health insurance for the opportunity to go bankrupt if you do get something like cancer.

As you mentioned, the only truly privatized area is dental treatment - and guess what's happened with that? Most people no longer get the preventative care they used to and very few people can afford the correct treatments for the more serious dental problems that arise. I took a 'cheaper' option (paying 1500 instead of 6000 for a proceedure) and am still paying for that 'mistake' in continual treatments three years later.

You ask one question, why should people pay for the really sick no matter what in the UK and the US? It's called living in a first world country where human rights are respected - people dying in the streets doesn't 'look' good nor do most civilized people feel that they want to live in such a way that some people are simply left to rot. Sadly, the US way of doing things is rather more expensive (using ER rooms for primary care giving) than the UK and other universal health care models.

Sorry but I disagree. THERE ARE wait times for serious health problems and the reason I quoted specific wait times is because I know of a person who experienced this when she was diagnosed with cancer. It was only was she was in extreme pain that she was admitted via accident & emergency where she then received tests & treatment. So you would think that the alternative would to be to go private? Well why should a person at 65 years old revert to private healthcare after paying into the system for so long?

With regard to the 'human rights' issue...I say many immigrants (not all) take advantage of this. They come specifically to UK or US to use the system to their advantage and tax payers who have paid into the system for many years pay the price due the strain on free healthcare!

Your experience, while a personal tragedy, doesn't mean didly squat. I can give you a dozen anecdotes with the opposite perspective, from serious illness like cancer to minor ailments of ovarian cysts and on none of these occasions was there any significant wait time (hours/days).

Yes, some immigrants take advantage of the system - that is no reason to get rid of the system. The phrase 'throwing the baby out with the bathwater' springs to mind.