If you could vote in the U.S. Election

[Marilyn. 340]

i really don't think that Peggy meant that other people are going to pay for her gas or her mortgage.. she was saying she wouldn't have to worry about it... meaning that maybe Obama would put some plans into action to help the economy etc...

[Sprailenes 47]

Yea I don't understand why people keep talking about putting gas into someone elses car or paying their mortgages.

I was at work and couldn't debate thoroughly about this topic.

Amanda....oh Amanda:

I wasn't thinking specifically about the military. I was talking about how many countries look to the USA for assistance when they are in trouble because the USA is a global leader. There are countries in Africa who have received financial assistance from the USA. Unfortunately its just left those countries in massive amounts of debt and really hasn't economically helped them. Thats why I also believe in debt relief but that is a whole new debate. I also think Canada, USA and other developed nations could do more. There is no reason for anyone to live below the poverty level. There is no reason that an entire country has to be classified as third world. I may enjoy a lot of Darwin's teachings, but I would never refer to myself and I have never called myself a "Darwinist" I think we both take different things from him. The fact that I put "Darwin" in my religious views on MY facebook doesn't make me a Darwinist. I would never limit myself to think one specific way, just because I agree with some of what Darwin says, doesn't mean that I can't believe in whatever I choose to believe in. I don't go specifically by the book Amanda.

About us all helping each other to the point of suffering... don't think it would ever come to that, that is why I also believe in welfare reform, and aiding countries properly. Its not about just giving out money and saying: "Here have a ball" I can't even begin to discuss this here without writing an essay, but it goes a lot deeper than what I speak right here. Which is really just the surface of everything i think and feel.

Edited November 11, 2008 by Sprailenes

[cdn_in_wa 1]

I still don't get the notion that we'll be paying to put someones gas in their car for them at all. If anything we'll be saving money because we won't be giving it to overseas enterprises to employ US companies to employ foreign workers abroad. We also no longer will be carrying the load of having to pay for all the 2-5% rich who have all the tax breaks anymore. We'll have our money for ourseles and they can start to pay into the govenrment like we have.

So no clue where all this paying to fill someones car up or thing like that comes from. But hypothetically if there ever was a case like that where there was a poor person in real need or a really rich mongrol who had everything, I'd rather support the poorer person then the rich one. Like they need anymore breaks.

Also I won't be paying for unjustified wars not on US soil and hell forbid, keeping companies finally in the US is quite a new concept as of late.

So unless you're one of the elite rich who have been sucking all the life and money from 98% of the population over the past 8 years, then things will change for the better and we can now start to have money to save for ourselves, rather then for the un-needy...

I'm glad you can be so convinced those things will all be fixed. I'm sorry that I don't buy it. I truly wish I could.

Anyway, I think the gas in someone's car comment stems from Obama's supporter, Peggy. Her assertion that she won't have to worry about putting gas in her car or paying her mortgage. It's not the reality of the comment so much as the fact that there are now many people who think they will benefit from the new administration's policies. Those benefits will come at an expense to others. And should those 'others' be forced to pay for gas or mortgages? I'm all for feeding the hungry, but I'm not all for buying them houses.

Honestly, if you owned a home, paid your mortgage diligently and struggled to get by, but managed, how would you feel if your neighbour was less responsible with his money, couldn't pay his mortgage and ended up getting help from the government while you didn't? I just plain don't think that's fair at all. Do you?

I doubt Obama will be able to provide any appreciable tax cuts for anyone in this country who makes a living wage, despite his promises to the contrary. This country is in a mess, and its going to take a lot of work to fix. They're printing money as we speak and bailing out big businesses left right and centre. I very much doubt that things will change for the better for 98% of the population anytime soon.

They've already started with the speeches aimed at lowering people's expectations of the incoming administration. They knew before the election they couldn't provide what they kept promising, but they kept promising it anyway. Anything to get your vote. They're all the same, Democrats or Republicans.

Politicians by their nature promise the world and in the end deliver little.

[thetreble 19]

I still don't get the notion that we'll be paying to put someones gas in their car for them at all. If anything we'll be saving money because we won't be giving it to overseas enterprises to employ US companies to employ foreign workers abroad. We also no longer will be carrying the load of having to pay for all the 2-5% rich who have all the tax breaks anymore. We'll have our money for ourseles and they can start to pay into the govenrment like we have.

So no clue where all this paying to fill someones car up or thing like that comes from. But hypothetically if there ever was a case like that where there was a poor person in real need or a really rich mongrol who had everything, I'd rather support the poorer person then the rich one. Like they need anymore breaks.

Also I won't be paying for unjustified wars not on US soil and hell forbid, keeping companies finally in the US is quite a new concept as of late.

So unless you're one of the elite rich who have been sucking all the life and money from 98% of the population over the past 8 years, then things will change for the better and we can now start to have money to save for ourselves, rather then for the un-needy...

That is really not the way it works. It is actually the middle class who end up paying most of the taxes as a whole in ratio to their income, even if the small, rich population pays more cash dollars.

There have been democratic governments before and they actually raise taxes, not cut them. It is not a traditionally democratic thing to cut taxes. They are raised to support more social programs.

I also think that you won't see any less US companies employing foreign workers. Foreign work is cheap and cheap labour is what works for most companies.

Why would you need to support a rich mongrol, as you put it, who has everything if he indeed..has everything? Sorry, I just don't get that. Also, how have the rick been sucking money from me? If anything, I have been giving my money willingly to them as a consumer. I have no problems with helping the poor or needy, however, I agree Nevada that throwing money at something doesn't work and that is what it seems like America does in my opinion. It also seems though that when money is thrown into things like education, not every one takes the opportunities. I think I might try to dig up some facts at how many kids who are eligible for free educations in NJ actually take it.

The wars I think most every one agrees on. Even the most Conservative Conservatives are sick and tired of the wars. But it does often seem that with America, aid and military action often go together. Again, just my opinion.

As far as not giving countries massive amounts of money, we can agree there. But it goes further because there have been massive amounts of programs, for example, to educate African Women in remote villages on the use of birth control. However, they either don't understand the concept or they have men beating/forcing them into sex any ways. It's societal. So again, money won't solve it. There have been many programs to educate those on the use of agriculture but it falls by the way side.

I guess I misunderstood you when I thought you were a Neo-Darwinist. I believe in fully committing to a concept but I see your point and understand that you like to pull things from all kinds of angles which is perfectly cool. That just isn't the way I work I guess and that is okay because every one is different.

I guess at the end of the day my thing is, is that it is hard enough for me a lot of the times to work a lot of hours, find time to have some relationship with my husband, take care of my dog..deal with buying a new home, etc. (oh and wait until the kids come! haha) I don't have time to think about any one else but the ones I love. If you think I'm a selfish #######, I probably am and it would not hurt my feelings one bit.

[cdn_in_wa 1]

i really don't think that Peggy meant that other people are going to pay for her gas or her mortgage.. she was saying she wouldn't have to worry about it... meaning that maybe Obama would put some plans into action to help the economy etc...

In essence that is what she was saying. 'He's going to help me so I don't have to worry, anymore.' That's a lot of blind faith to put in a politician. The important part - she didn't say, but you did - maybe.

We can only hope he does half of what he promised. And hope that what he does will help us without hurting us more.

I remain a skeptic. But don't go getting all excited about it - I'd have been equally skeptical had the Republicans been elected.

[Sprailenes 47]

Nope sorry to disappoint you there, definitely not a neo darwinist. I enjoy his theories but I take from it what I take from it.

At the end of the day, I am not just worrying about myself, I am worrying about the rest of the world as well. I have a child to raise in this world, and I don't sugar coat anything for him. My mother didn't sugar coat anything for me either. I was raised to care about everyone and to think about everything on a global scale, and I am raising him the same way.

[Marilyn. 340]

i really don't think that Peggy meant that other people are going to pay for her gas or her mortgage.. she was saying she wouldn't have to worry about it... meaning that maybe Obama would put some plans into action to help the economy etc...

In essence that is what she was saying. 'He's going to help me so I don't have to worry, anymore.' That's a lot of blind faith to put in a politician. The important part - she didn't say, but you did - maybe.

We can only hope he does half of what he promised. And hope that what he does will help us without hurting us more.

I remain a skeptic. But don't go getting all excited about it - I'd have been equally skeptical had the Republicans been elected.

she also just got out of the rally and you can tell she was feeling all emotional so maybe she didn't say exactly what she meant to say....

[thetreble 19]

Nope sorry to disappoint you there, definitely not a neo darwinist. I enjoy his theories but I take from it what I take from it.

At the end of the day, I am not just worrying about myself, I am worrying about the rest of the world as well. I have a child to raise in this world, and I don't sugar coat anything for him. My mother didn't sugar coat anything for me either. I was raised to care about everyone and to think about everything on a global scale, and I am raising him the same way.

Which is commendable. Unfortunately or fortunately for me I guess, when I see the problems on television I say, "wow that is very sad...." and then realize I can't help financially and don't have the time to be pro-active about it. I guess I leave it up to others who have time and money.

[cdn_in_wa 1]

i really don't think that Peggy meant that other people are going to pay for her gas or her mortgage.. she was saying she wouldn't have to worry about it... meaning that maybe Obama would put some plans into action to help the economy etc...

In essence that is what she was saying. 'He's going to help me so I don't have to worry, anymore.' That's a lot of blind faith to put in a politician. The important part - she didn't say, but you did - maybe.

We can only hope he does half of what he promised. And hope that what he does will help us without hurting us more.

I remain a skeptic. But don't go getting all excited about it - I'd have been equally skeptical had the Republicans been elected.

she also just got out of the rally and you can tell she was feeling all emotional so maybe she didn't say exactly what she meant to say....

Or maybe she did? Why make excuses for her? She said it, you didn't.

I don't get what the big deal is? Her comments were used an *example* of what *some* Obama supporters think.

~He's going to fix everything and we won't have to worry anymore.~

Scary. Having a politician fix everything would make me worry more.

[trailmix 77]

i really don't think that Peggy meant that other people are going to pay for her gas or her mortgage.. she was saying she wouldn't have to worry about it... meaning that maybe Obama would put some plans into action to help the economy etc...

In essence that is what she was saying. 'He's going to help me so I don't have to worry, anymore.' That's a lot of blind faith to put in a politician. The important part - she didn't say, but you did - maybe.

We can only hope he does half of what he promised. And hope that what he does will help us without hurting us more.

I remain a skeptic. But don't go getting all excited about it - I'd have been equally skeptical had the Republicans been elected.

she also just got out of the rally and you can tell she was feeling all emotional so maybe she didn't say exactly what she meant to say....

Or maybe she did? Why make excuses for her? She said it, you didn't.

I don't get what the big deal is? Her comments were used an *example* of what *some* Obama supporters think.

~He's going to fix everything and we won't have to worry anymore.~

Scary. Having a politician fix everything would make me worry more.

I don't think Marilyn is making excuses , it's all about interpretation/perception - I'm thinking the same as Marilyn...but unless Peggy jumps on VJ and posts in this thread, we really can't be sure.

[Marilyn. 340]

and it is hard to know exactly what she meant.. they just took one line from her interview and ran with it... so her statement is most likely out of context...

an no I was not making excuses for her...

[cdn_in_wa 1]

and it is hard to know exactly what she meant.. they just took one line from her interview and ran with it... so her statement is most likely out of context...

an no I was not making excuses for her...

It seemed pretty clear to me.

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Point is, it's indicative of the expectations of some Obama supporters.

I just wonder where they think he's getting all this money to help them. There's only so much the super rich will pay. The super rich don't need income, you see. They could live off capital if they chose. So whose income will we end up taxing?

[Sprailenes 47]

Nope sorry to disappoint you there, definitely not a neo darwinist. I enjoy his theories but I take from it what I take from it.

At the end of the day, I am not just worrying about myself, I am worrying about the rest of the world as well. I have a child to raise in this world, and I don't sugar coat anything for him. My mother didn't sugar coat anything for me either. I was raised to care about everyone and to think about everything on a global scale, and I am raising him the same way.

Which is commendable. Unfortunately or fortunately for me I guess, when I see the problems on television I say, "wow that is very sad...." and then realize I can't help financially and don't have the time to be pro-active about it. I guess I leave it up to others who have time and money.

Errr I think you probably do more than you think you do, you don't need to directly help someone with money or your time. There are other ways. Just raising awareness sometimes is enough.

If you believe in one cause, then its one cause you believe in, if you talk about it, you're raising awareness. Sometimes you buy something and money goes towards a cause.

When I was a kid, my mother would wonder why I was always hungry and we lived in Moss Park in Toronto, and you know the area around there is pretty ugh. Well every day I'd bring my lunch to this man named Moe and then I'd go to school and not eat lunch and the teachers finally called my mom to ask why I never had my lunch. So she followed me to school one day, and found out what I was up to. So she started making me two lunches after that. At that time my mother was working a lot and going to U of T, and trying to keep food on our own table too, but she saw what I did and she encouraged it. Now, I tell my friends this story and a lot of them say: "My mom would have killed me!" and a lot of them had more money than we did. But its every little bit that counts, and hey even if its just a dinky peanut butter sandwich and a juice box, so be it. You've done something. There's just too much suffering in this world. It makes me sad.

Edited November 12, 2008 by Sprailenes

[SapphireDreams 71]

Nope sorry to disappoint you there, definitely not a neo darwinist. I enjoy his theories but I take from it what I take from it.

At the end of the day, I am not just worrying about myself, I am worrying about the rest of the world as well. I have a child to raise in this world, and I don't sugar coat anything for him. My mother didn't sugar coat anything for me either. I was raised to care about everyone and to think about everything on a global scale, and I am raising him the same way.

Which is commendable. Unfortunately or fortunately for me I guess, when I see the problems on television I say, "wow that is very sad...." and then realize I can't help financially and don't have the time to be pro-active about it. I guess I leave it up to others who have time and money.

I tend to agree with Nevada here for a lot of different reasons. First, while it is easy to just write off the rest of the world and only think about yourself, your life and supporting yourself because you don't have the time or money is just too simplistic.

You discuss your dislike for NJ a lot. You discuss how unsafe it is, you mentioned that there are a lot of poor people. Why is that? Its easy to blame poor people to say they are lazy or don't work hard. It's easy to complain about how much NJ sucks. But why is it so expensive to live in a nice neighbourhood? Why is it so hard to go places at night by yourself? Why do you have to work so much to be able to afford a nice life for yourself and family?

Maybe you don't feel like others matter, but they do and they affect you every day of your life. What if troubled teens had the opportunity that we did to attend University? Maybe they wouldn't be out on the street, barely surviving or committing crimes. What if there were programs in place to help uneducated, inexperienced citizens - healthcare, careers programs, housing programs - programs that actually worked or worked better than they do now - programs that would give them an opportunity to be someone. Or maybe not them, but their children. If that means I have to pay more taxes, so be it. I will get through it because I am already at an advantage - I am healthy and well-educated and had advantages that many do not have.

I know that one person cannot make a difference. Obama alone cannot make a difference. I cannot make a difference without the help of others. Republicans cannot make a difference. We all need eachother to make a difference. Then, we can all benefit from the difference. The first step in getting there is attitude and it makes me really sad that despite the world around us crumbling, so many people still maintain that "I" attitude.

Actually, the major turning point in my life when I realized that the world didn't revolve around myself was when I read Tupac's biography. Sounds silly I know. But it was very eye-opening and I recommend everyone read his experiences. I expect that when I have children, things will change even more for me.

Sorry if my post got off topic, but this is something I've become passionate about with all the election discussion.

[Sprailenes 47]

Nope sorry to disappoint you there, definitely not a neo darwinist. I enjoy his theories but I take from it what I take from it.

At the end of the day, I am not just worrying about myself, I am worrying about the rest of the world as well. I have a child to raise in this world, and I don't sugar coat anything for him. My mother didn't sugar coat anything for me either. I was raised to care about everyone and to think about everything on a global scale, and I am raising him the same way.

Which is commendable. Unfortunately or fortunately for me I guess, when I see the problems on television I say, "wow that is very sad...." and then realize I can't help financially and don't have the time to be pro-active about it. I guess I leave it up to others who have time and money.

I tend to agree with Nevada here for a lot of different reasons. First, while it is easy to just write off the rest of the world and only think about yourself, your life and supporting yourself because you don't have the time or money is just too simplistic.

You discuss your dislike for NJ a lot. You discuss how unsafe it is, you mentioned that there are a lot of poor people. Why is that? Its easy to blame poor people to say they are lazy or don't work hard. It's easy to complain about how much NJ sucks. But why is it so expensive to live in a nice neighbourhood? Why is it so hard to go places at night by yourself? Why do you have to work so much to be able to afford a nice life for yourself and family?

Maybe you don't feel like others matter, but they do and they affect you every day of your life. What if troubled teens had the opportunity that we did to attend University? Maybe they wouldn't be out on the street, barely surviving or committing crimes. What if there were programs in place to help uneducated, inexperienced citizens - healthcare, careers programs, housing programs - programs that actually worked or worked better than they do now - programs that would give them an opportunity to be someone. Or maybe not them, but their children. If that means I have to pay more taxes, so be it. I will get through it because I am already at an advantage - I am healthy and well-educated and had advantages that many do not have.

I know that one person cannot make a difference. Obama alone cannot make a difference. I cannot make a difference without the help of others. Republicans cannot make a difference. We all need eachother to make a difference. Then, we can all benefit from the difference. The first step in getting there is attitude and it makes me really sad that despite the world around us crumbling, so many people still maintain that "I" attitude.

Actually, the major turning point in my life when I realized that the world didn't revolve around myself was when I read Tupac's biography. Sounds silly I know. But it was very eye-opening and I recommend everyone read his experiences. I expect that when I have children, things will change even more for me.

Sorry if my post got off topic, but this is something I've become passionate about with all the election discussion.

I agree with everything you just said. I bolded the part that really hit me because I always say that! If paying higher taxes means that we can all move forward collectively then I'll pay the taxes. Half of the country can't just move up the ladder and leave the rest at the bottom. If you just want to think about yourself then fine, leave them at the bottom and climb on up to the top. But in terms of an entire country, an entire society, you're just not going to move forward that way.

If you're okay with this nation not moving forward, then by all means, climb the ladder alone, but don't complain when you get to the top and realize that the view isn't so great.

Edited November 12, 2008 by Sprailenes