If you could vote in the U.S. Election

[cdn_in_wa 1]

Um when did I say it was the end of the world??? And lets not call the kettle black here. You seem to think that because we did not vote the way you did, that we didn't know who we were voting for.

Thats fine that you think that way, and I never said it was your fault that certain people are in trouble.

But I believe that as a society we need to help one another and right about now, this country is in dire need of help. The people of this country are in need of help, Capitalism has failed. I personally don't mind paying higher taxes in order to help others. I know many fortunate people who don't mind it either.

One day you may not be so fortunate. You just never know.

Yep we disagree. Thats fine.

Perhaps you're confusing me with someone else? I didn't say you didn't know who you were voting for. I said:

As to those of you who didn't vote for a smile or a promise - there are many who did.

You didn't say it was my fault, you said this:

no wait, thats not YOUR fault now is it? Why should YOU care right?

You implied I was wrong for thinking it is not my fault. And you implied I do not care - because I do not think I should be paying other people's mortgages for them. You are wrong to suggest or imply that I do not care.

I don't object to helping others, either. Where did I say that? I said I didn't think I should have to pay someone else's MORTGAGE for them. Or fill their tank with gas.

People in need should be helped.

But, I'm a strong believer in the Teach a Man to Fish theory. And I believe Capitalism, while flawed, is still the best system in the world!

[cdn_in_wa 1]

The one thing that I will say about this election...whether it be on VJ, or whether out in the "real" world, I've never, NEVER heard such nastiness!!!!

Sorry, just remembered something else I wanted to say here.

I absolutely agree with you. I've never heard such nastiness, either.

A couple of months ago, we had a Liberal friend over, California Democrat. She sat in our living room, and out of the blue started screaming about how terrible the Republicans are and what a bleeping liar Sarah Palin is. She initiated the topic, and immediately was screaming about it. She didn't know who we were voting for, either. I was appalled at how hysterical people can get over politics. Quite taken aback, I suggested that I didn't really know much about it as a Canadian (trying to change the subject). It was one of the most bizarre incidents I've witnessed.

[Sprailenes 47]

I don't have you confused with anyone else. Because many many people didn't vote along your side, you're assuming that they did not know who they were voting for.

This is part of the nastiness of this election, and you're contributing to it just as much as the liberal friend you speak of by assuming that the majority of voters have no idea what they are voting for.

And thats fine that you believe capitalism is the best system. I believe that socialism is the best system.

We're yin and yang.

Edited November 11, 2008 by Sprailenes

[thetreble 19]

Agreed! In my mind there is no need to get hysterical about it considering usually we get screwed by the government no matter who is in power.

I am also one to agree that while I hope Obama can change some things, it is going to be very hard. I Also think there are certain groups of people expecting him to fight their cause for them when that is just not true. There will be more people in line for handouts than ever before, and if you are in a state that has a lot of poor people like NJ does, it can get very overwhelming.

Every country in the world is not meant to be entirely democratic, socialist, etc. The US was built on Capitalism and because of the business the US does, it will ALWAYS be capitalist. You can't turn this county socialist. It works in Canada because of the values we have and how the country grew. While I'm a pretty staunch liberal in Canada, how do I benefit from democratic policies as the middle class here in the US? I don't qualify for anything as my husband and I make over a certain amount of money and the middle class as a whole are taxed a significant amount.

I agree with some of those here that have stated they don't wish to pay for someone else's responsibilities. I have no problem with paying taxes either, but why should I pay for someone who defaulted on their mortgage when A)they took out a mortgage they could never afford in the first place and B)I'm struggling to pay mine? I do have a sense of civil service and helping others but not when it comes to their financial responsibilities.

Also Nev, I'm going to have to disagree with your comment about people turning to the US in times of need. Maybe certain organizations that want you to donate fifty cents for children in need in Africa or to fight the Israeli cause (ie. supply weapons), but most countries actually want to distance themselves away from the US after all the harm they have done in the world. I have friends from the former Yugoslavia that almost cried when I left for the US saying how could I live in a country where the government dropped bombs on their people. It's a very touchie situation for a lot of countries and people these days.

The US may have a lot of money, which I think is cool, but it hasn't been very "democratic" in solving the world's problems in my life time, at least.

Ya'll know I loves ya no matter what opinions you have. I probably would have voted for Nader any way. haha

Edited November 11, 2008 by thetreble

[cdn_in_wa 1]

I don't have you confused with anyone else. Because many many people didn't vote along your side, you're assuming that they did not know who they were voting for.

This is part of the nastiness of this election, and you're contributing to it just as much as the liberal friend you speak of by assuming that the majority of voters have no idea what they are voting for.

And thats fine that you believe capitalism is the best system. I believe that socialism is the best system.

We're yin and yang.

If you can show me where I said that YOU didn't know who you were voting for, I'd appreciate it. That's what you said. I didn't. I'd say you probably did know who you would vote for, since you believe that socialism is the best system. :-)

I'm not screaming at the top of my lungs, so how am I contributing to the nastiness? Because I disagree with you and didn't want Obama as the next president of the USA? Because I don't think he's the right man for the job and you do? Because I dare to post in defense of Capitalism? I'm confused how my having a differing opinion to yours and others is contributing to the nastiness?

I'll direct you to my quote AGAIN

As to those of you who didn't vote for a smile or a promise - there are many who did.

I said many, not the majority. I've seen and heard many people who claimed to be voting Obama - many of them were voting on the rhetoric of Hope and Change. To them I'd say, 'Be careful what you wish for.'

Again, I'm thinking you have me confused with someone else? Perhaps your view of the typical Capitalist Republican? B)

[cdn_in_wa 1]

Agreed! In my mind there is no need to get hysterical about it considering usually we get screwed by the government no matter who is in power.

... saving space ...

I probably would have voted for Nader any way. haha

Truer words were never spoken! Well they probably were, but you get the drift.

And the only reason I would have voted McCain was because I would not have wanted to throw my vote away on a fringe candidate and have 'The One' (per Oprah) win.

I think we can all agree that we want to see this country get back on it's feet and continue to succeed.

[Sprailenes 47]

First of all, Treble, this country was founded on a lot of things that didn't work out and were not in the best interests of this country. I don't believe you can turn this country into a socialist nation, nor would I want that. But I truly believe that we need to help eachother in order to move forward. Once everyone is on their feet then we can move forward. Until then we're stuck here, right where we are. Also, many many many countries ask the USA for aid in times of need. It goes beyond organizations.

I don't think Obama is going to be able to make all the changes he has promised, but something has to change in this country and I don't think anyone can fix this place in 4 years or 8 years. But I do believe Obama will start the process of change. And I dislike how divided this country is in politics, my husband and his cousin no longer talk because of politics. My best friend won't speak to me anymore because of politics.

My cousin is a conservative, my mom votes green, my aunt is a liberal and my uncle loves the NDP, and you know what? We have never fought or argued about politics, we can talk about it, and we can even agree on many issues. But never would we say that one is an imbecile or whatnot.

[thetreble 19]

First of all, Treble, this country was founded on a lot of things that didn't work out and were not in the best interests of this country.

Such as? I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything but the US was founded on Capitalist principles and the notion of the individual, not the collective.

But I truly believe that we need to help eachother in order to move forward.

I think we should help each other for sure, but how much is enough? Do we keep helping until we are all down and out and can't survive? There has to be a cut off period at some point. I really don't think it is my duty to help people out more than I already do through my taxes. If someone has a drug problem and I don't know them, is it my job to step in and offer them financial help? People have to take some responsibility for themselves. I'm going to be honest with you. I see it at work every day and in other scenarios; it seems today that a lot of people will not take responsibility. Period. And this is no personal jab at all Sprailenes but I happen to know you are a Darwinist and if you believe in the survival of the fittest, isn't kind of the opposite to believe in outright Socialism? Just a question there.

Also, many many many countries ask the USA for aid in times of need. It goes beyond organizations.

Again, please provide examples. Aid is different then military enforcement which is what I guess I meant. America gives a lot of financial aid because they have the loot. Many other countries also give financial aid without giving military support. I think it is great that America gives financial aid to those in need, although I do think it get's excessive. Many countries owe a country like the US trillions of dollars in loans they will never be able to pay back. I think that isn't right to some degree but again, that is just my opinion. I'm definitely not a humanitarian by any means.

I don't think Obama is going to be able to make all the changes he has promised, but something has to change in this country and I don't think anyone can fix this place in 4 years or 8 years. But I do believe Obama will start the process of change. And I dislike how divided this country is in politics, my husband and his cousin no longer talk because of politics. My best friend won't speak to me anymore because of politics.

Well for one I'd like him to make some changes, but you know what I would REALLY like? For people just to b e nicer to people. Rudeness and just plain ignorance is prevalent here and it would be nice for a President to bridge some of the divides. But every country is divided in politics..that is why we have successful elections where one party wins and the other loses. At the end of the day, there are hundreds of countries where people kill each other over political beliefs so I gather we aren't as divided as it may seem

My cousin is a conservative, my mom votes green, my aunt is a liberal and my uncle loves the NDP, and you know what? We have never fought or argued about politics, we can talk about it, and we can even agree on many issues. But never would we say that one is an imbecile or whatnot.

I think name calling is silly and people get very defensive about things like religion and politics. I also didn't see any name calling in this thread unless I missed it. Some times we see things that aren't there you know? I'm happy with people believing in what ever they want to and I don't take offense to anything people say about my beliefs. Remember years ago when they had that huge Raelian thing going on in Quebec? Man that guy was so cool and space-like

[cdn_in_wa 1]

I think name calling is silly and people get very defensive about things like religion and politics. I also didn't see any name calling in this thread unless I missed it. Some times we see things that aren't there you know? I'm happy with people believing in what ever they want to and I don't take offense to anything people say about my beliefs. Remember years ago when they had that huge Raelian thing going on in Quebec? Man that guy was so cool and space-like

I guess that's why Mummy always told us not to discuss religion or politics in polite company. B)

[Sprailenes 47]

Just because this country was founded on something doesn't mean it can work forever. The fundamentals of capitalism is great for some people. But it only works for a small group of people. The rest of the people suffer, only a small group collectively benefits from capitalism.

It can't work anymore with the amount of people this country now holds. Unfortunately its flawed in many ways.

Yes survival of the fittest but I don't believe in eating the weakest ones alive. I understand not everyone is keen on helping someone else. But unfortunatlely thats what has to be done in order to move forward in my most humble opinion.

I don't just agree with handing my pay cheque over. I agree with Welfare Reform too and I do believe that Mike Harris, our good old 'jerk' of a premier did an amazing job reforming Welfare in Ontario. I think many states could learn a thing or two from him in that sense.

[jonesg111 0]

Yep politics is an interesting bird, everyone tends to get their knickers in a knot! Including myself, and if you believe something is right, then why not?

This idea that I have to support someone else or someone else should support me is crazy! Why has the idea of individual responsibility been thrown out the window? Why is it someone else's fault that you can't pay your credit card or mortgage? Why do we have to bail people and businesses out that made poor decisions?

I've made poor decisions in my life and paid for them with my own money! I've never gone to my folks or government or anyone else and asked them to pay for what has happened to me, even if it was not my fault.

Arrrgh

[trailmix 77]

nvm

Edited November 11, 2008 by trailmix

[jonesg111 0]

Yep politics is an interesting bird, everyone tends to get their knickers in a knot! Including myself, and if you believe something is right, then why not?

This idea that I have to support someone else or someone else should support me is crazy! Why has the idea of individual responsibility been thrown out the window? Why is it someone else's fault that you can't pay your credit card or mortgage? Why do we have to bail people and businesses out that made poor decisions?

I've made poor decisions in my life and paid for them with my own money! I've never gone to my folks or government or anyone else and asked them to pay for what has happened to me, even if it was not my fault.

Arrrgh

Jones - are you perchance the American in the relationship?

Haha , nope sorry to not represent the typical Canadian

[trailmix 77]

Yep politics is an interesting bird, everyone tends to get their knickers in a knot! Including myself, and if you believe something is right, then why not?

This idea that I have to support someone else or someone else should support me is crazy! Why has the idea of individual responsibility been thrown out the window? Why is it someone else's fault that you can't pay your credit card or mortgage? Why do we have to bail people and businesses out that made poor decisions?

I've made poor decisions in my life and paid for them with my own money! I've never gone to my folks or government or anyone else and asked them to pay for what has happened to me, even if it was not my fault.

Arrrgh

Jones - are you perchance the American in the relationship?

Haha , nope sorry to not represent the typical Canadian

No need to apologize, you are entitled to your opinion. And I am sure you didn't mean that in a condescending and insulting way.

[warlord 73]

I still don't get the notion that we'll be paying to put someones gas in their car for them at all. If anything we'll be saving money because we won't be giving it to overseas enterprises to employ US companies to employ foreign workers abroad. We also no longer will be carrying the load of having to pay for all the 2-5% rich who have all the tax breaks anymore. We'll have our money for ourseles and they can start to pay into the govenrment like we have.

So no clue where all this paying to fill someones car up or thing like that comes from. But hypothetically if there ever was a case like that where there was a poor person in real need or a really rich mongrol who had everything, I'd rather support the poorer person then the rich one. Like they need anymore breaks.

Also I won't be paying for unjustified wars not on US soil and hell forbid, keeping companies finally in the US is quite a new concept as of late.

So unless you're one of the elite rich who have been sucking all the life and money from 98% of the population over the past 8 years, then things will change for the better and we can now start to have money to save for ourselves, rather then for the un-needy...