What If Things were switched

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Makes you think. There's definitely a double standard goin on but I think it's more to do with party affiliation rather than the color of each candidate's skin.

It shouldn't make you think about anything. There is no double standard. People are supporting Obama DESPITE some pretty serious charactor flaws. Does everyone? No they don't.

What do you think? If John McCain was all of the things that Obama is that Democrats would vote for him instead? Yeaaaah. Of course.

The impression that Obama has any more serious character flaws than McCain is what this OP is all about, and it has been a double standard. Nobody has seriously questioned McCain's character as Obama has not made that the focus of his campaign, but rather McCain's political ideas. You've got to be wearing blinders to not have seen that. Palin is a different story, although again, it hasn't been Obama that has attacked her character. While you could argue that some of the most objectionable claims against Obama's character came from outside of McCain, even Colin Powell and other respected Republicans have admonished the character assasination of Obama as a stain on the GOP.

Look Steven. McCain is a very poor Republican Candidate. I know that. Most of the party faithful knows that. A lot of us are frankly not that happy with our choice this year. Its not so much what McCain IS that we are voting for- it's what he isn't. He isn't Barak Obama. If McCain had the charisma and education and speakability of Barak, the Republicans would probably gain a lot more independants, but he doesn't so he probably won't.

That is why the Obama will win by the way. People voting for Obama are voting FOR him. People on the right vote for McCain to - and I quote "Stop the Obama Express".

Obama does have a couple more serious character flaws- Hanging with Reverand Right and William Ayers- these are Death Sentences for someone running for President on the Right. Whatever scandalous affairs McCain has had with his personal life are going to mean nothing to middle america when you've got that kind of baggage.

And what's with this crack about dragging your kids across the stage? Didn't Mrs Obama have her children on stage at the DNC? If Obama did that more I suppose that he'd gain the adoration of more on the right, but instead he says "I don't want my daughter punished with a baby". Oh yeah, the bible belt only resents that statement because he's black. Come on. What if the Obama's had adopted a white child? Yeah, what if they had? #######??

What if Michelle Obama's family had made their money from beer distribution? Oh my God. That's horrible. I'm sure most Democrats would abandon him in a flash. The tobacco thing is probably why Al Gore didn't get elected I guess. No wait. He's white. Maybe people just didn't like the direction he was planning on taking America.

So I guess what the op is proposing is that if it were John Edwards up there the race wouldn't even be close. We would have given Edwards a pass for a marital discression...oh wait, we didn't! He actually had to cancel his scheduled appearances after that because nodody wanted him around. How much have you seen Him on the campaign trail?

I mean what in the heck is the point here? Are people on the left this convinced that nobody in their right mind would EVER vote Republican? This should be a 90%-10% smashing, is that it? Get real. The only thing Republicans don't like about George Bush is that he started acting too much like a Democrat. Most of us wouldn't vote for Obama if he looked like Ronald Reagan, as long as underneath it all he was still Barack.

If McCain had the charisma and education of Obama, perhaps- perhaps the race would be closer, but in the end I don't think it matters to most of America. They want someone who is a far away and detached from George Bush as humanly possible, and that is not going to be a Republican.

One example of a double standard that I see is the guilt by association tactics used against Obama. Take for instance his association with Rev. Wright. Dale, just look up some of the controversial things that Pastors like Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell have said over the years and yet they were coddled by the Republican Party...because of their clout with evangelicals. I don't know how you can't see that as a double standard. Obama never sought Rev. Wright's endorsement and kept his association with his pastor, a spiritual one and not a political one, whereas the Republican Party blurred the lines between politics and religion by coddling such evangelical leaders like Falwell for political gain. Again, the double standard is painfully obvious to anyone who sees it.

...and as far as voting for Bush - if you look at 2000 again, he got a lot of votes just from Americans who wanted nothing more to do with the Clinton Administration and that included Gore. Many of Bush's supporters believed he would bring honor and integrity back to the Oval Office. Even then, I don't think he won enough support, but that's another topic. So while there may be a large number of voters who are simply voting the Democratic Ticket this time around rather than fully embracing Obama as their candidate of choice, that is the nature of our political system. There will never be a candidate from either major political parties who voters will wholeheartedly fall behind as the prime candidate of their choice. However, I believe Obama is one of those rare candidates, like a JFK, Reagan, Clinton, who has managed to find a wide array of support, even among Republicans.

Edited November 2, 2008 by Mister Fancypants

[mawilson 2,133]

Obama & co have problems with numbers, but it's a secret!

The numbers kept changing because the tax plan was a work in progress.

The final draft says $250k, and it hasn't changed since it was released.

He is an idiot; it's just covered up by the fawning media that orgasms when he speaks.

Can you provide a specific example that alludes to his idiocy?

[dalegg 143]

One example of a double standard that I see is the guilt by association tactics used against Obama. Take for instance his association with Rev. Wright. Dale, just look up some of the controversial things that Pastors like Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell have said over the years and yet they were coddled by the Republican Party...because of their clout with evangelicals. I don't know how you can't see that as a double standard. Obama never sought Rev. Wright's endorsement and kept his association with his pastor, a spiritual one and not a political one, whereas the Republican Party blurred the lines between politics and religion by coddling such evangelical leaders like Falwell for political gain. Again, the double standard is painfully obvious to anyone who sees it.

...and as far as voting for Bush - if you look at 2000 again, he got a lot of votes just from Americans who wanted nothing more to do with the Clinton Administration and that included Gore. Many of Bush's supporters believed he would bring honor and integrity back to the Oval Office. Even then, I don't think he won enough support, but that's another topic. So while there may be a large number of voters who are simply voting the Democratic Ticket this time around rather than fully embracing Obama as their candidate of choice, that is the nature of our political system. There will never be a candidate from either major political parties who voters will wholeheartedly fall behind as the prime candidate of their choice. However, I believe Obama is one of those rare candidates, like a JFK, Reagan, Clinton, who has managed to find a wide array of support, even among Republicans.

First of all, comparing Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell to Reverand Wright? Uh..no. These guys never condemned America as a whole. But- I'll grant you this. Republicans are going to give more leeway to these two pastors. But..So what? People on the left condemn these two pastors and give leeway to Wright. So I guess they also have a double standard, no?

And you nailed it on the head earlier. It's not racial. Its party lines. What is this sudden crying about attacking someones character? THAT's never been done in a campaign before? Oh brother. 2 words for you. Swift Boat.

McCain himself is indeed more vicious toward Obama. Simple reason- he's losing. I resent the idea that he's only attacking his character because of the color of his skin though. Republicans didn't attack Bill Clinton?

This whole line is just very, very bothersome. One of the things I like about an Obama presidency is that it should mark a time when we have finally gotten over the race card. But now I'm getting the feeling that if anyone criticizes Obama during the next 4 years, they are going to be automatically labeled a racist. Your statement that he has found support amongst a wide array of voters is the correct statement. For crying out loud, he is winning! This blither blather is simply nonsense.

[Marilyn. 340]

I am an equal opportunity critic. Obama and McCain both suck. They both have plenty of character flaws and they can both be described correctly by the other side as having HUGE shortcomings. I plan to vote for Alfred E. Neuman!

like most people do... we will never find the "perfect" person to be president...

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Obama & co have problems with numbers, but it's a secret!

The numbers kept changing because the tax plan was a work in progress.

The final draft says $250k, and it hasn't changed since it was released.

It was just this week that different numbers were presented as above or below "middle class", making pundits comment on the variability of his target. If his plan hasn't matured by now, when?

He is an idiot; it's just covered up by the fawning media that orgasms when he speaks.

Can you provide a specific example that alludes to his idiocy?

I can give you several.

Advocating baby killing

Traveling to "57 states"

Choosing Big Mouth Biden for a running mate

Refusing to release his medical records, college transcripts, birth certificate, hiding other records.

Hanging out with terrorists and con artists

Putting down America at every turn

Refusing to salute the flag

Sitting in Rev Wright's church for 23 years and calling him his mentor

Long term illegal drug use

Going back on his word to use federal funds for his campaign (lying)

He claimed that his parents conceived him out of their excitement over the civil rights march in Selma, AL. He was born in 1961, the march was held in 1965. (Did he think no one would notice?)

He claimed his father was brought to America with Kennedy intervention. Not true. (Did he think no one would notice?)

He claimed to have voted on war issues while in the US Senate at a time when he wasn't even in the US Senate. (Did he think no one would notice?)

He implied that he was chairman of a Senate committee that he wasn't even a member of. (Did he think no one would notice?)

In his book, Dreams from my Father, he claims that his racial awakening came from reading an article in Time Magazine about skin lightening that Time's historians say doesn't exist. (Did he think no one would notice?)

Should I add more?

Edited November 2, 2008 by Virtual wife

[Ban Hammer 13,334]

[mawilson 2,133]

Advocating baby killing

Doesn't make him an idiot.

Traveling to "57 states"

Purlease.

Refusing to release his medical records, college transcripts, birth certificate, hiding other records.

That's smart, not idiotic - especially if he's got something to hide.

Hanging out with terrorists and con artists

Putting down America at every turn

Refusing to salute the flag

Sitting in Rev Wright's church for 23 years and calling him his mentor

Long term illegal drug use

Questionable behavior to be sure, but doesn't make him an idiot.

Going back on his word to use federal funds for his campaign (lying)

Very smart decision. He sure fukced McCain with that one.

He claimed that his parents conceived him out of their excitement over the civil rights march in Selma, AL. He was born in 1961, the march was held in 1965. (Did he think no one would notice?)

He claimed his father was brought to America with Kennedy intervention. Not true. (Did he think no one would notice?)

He claimed to have voted on war issues while in the US Senate at a time when he wasn't even in the US Senate. (Did he think no one would notice?)

He implied that he was chairman of a Senate committee that he wasn't even a member of. (Did he think no one would notice?)

In his book, Dreams from my Father, he claims that his racial awakening came from reading an article in Time Magazine about skin lightening that Time's historians say doesn't exist. (Did he think no one would notice?)

More alleged "lies", but nothing that indicates he's an idiot.

[Marilyn. 340]

what I find funny is that I am sure a similar kind of list could be made about McCain...

[cinnamon3822 0]

Obama & co have problems with numbers, but it's a secret!

The numbers kept changing because the tax plan was a work in progress.

The final draft says $250k, and it hasn't changed since it was released.

It was just this week that different numbers were presented as above or below "middle class", making pundits comment on the variability of his target. If his plan hasn't matured by now, when?

He is an idiot; it's just covered up by the fawning media that orgasms when he speaks.

Can you provide a specific example that alludes to his idiocy?

I can give you several.

Advocating baby killing

Traveling to "57 states"

Choosing Big Mouth Biden for a running mate

Refusing to release his medical records, college transcripts, birth certificate, hiding other records.

Hanging out with terrorists and con artists

Putting down America at every turn

Refusing to salute the flag

Sitting in Rev Wright's church for 23 years and calling him his mentor

Long term illegal drug use

Going back on his word to use federal funds for his campaign (lying)

He claimed that his parents conceived him out of their excitement over the civil rights march in Selma, AL. He was born in 1961, the march was held in 1965. (Did he think no one would notice?)

He claimed his father was brought to America with Kennedy intervention. Not true. (Did he think no one would notice?)

He claimed to have voted on war issues while in the US Senate at a time when he wasn't even in the US Senate. (Did he think no one would notice?)

He implied that he was chairman of a Senate committee that he wasn't even a member of. (Did he think no one would notice?)

In his book, Dreams from my Father, he claims that his racial awakening came from reading an article in Time Magazine about skin lightening that Time's historians say doesn't exist. (Did he think no one would notice?)

Should I add more?

Barack never said he was for abortion, what he said was that's bwtwn the individual, their doctor and minister. But speaking of medical records Palin to this day has not released hers.

On a different note: where are Sarah Palin's medical records? I tend to believe that even candidates for the highest offices are entitled to more privacy than most people seem to believe they ought to have, but release of medical records is something that all national candidates are expected to do, and the other three candidates (Obama, McCain and Biden) have all -- with varying degrees of thoroughness -- released medical information and histories. But Palin hasn't released any of her medical information and apparently now refuses to do so.

What makes Palin's refusal increasingly strange is that she told Brian Williams two weeks that she would release them; the campaign promised ABC News -- whose Kate Snow has tenaciously asked "every day [last] week" -- that it would release them early last week; and yet she still has not done so. It seems clear that she now has no intention of releasing them before the election.

She is a 44-year-old woman who insists that she's had no health problems. How hard can it be to gather her medical records? And what is the reason for her refusal? One can debate whether Presidential and Vice Presidential candidates should have to release medical records -- I'm ambivalent on that question -- but the standard is that they are required at least to release basic medical history, and Palin promised to release hers. So where is it, and why hasn't it been released yet?

Maybe baby Trig is a grandson???

[Brad and Vika 129]

I am an equal opportunity critic. Obama and McCain both suck. They both have plenty of character flaws and they can both be described correctly by the other side as having HUGE shortcomings. I plan to vote for Alfred E. Neuman!

like most people do... we will never find the "perfect" person to be president...

I'm not looking for perfect, but we can definitely do better than what I have seen recently. Sometimes I think the most qualified candidates refuse to enter a race for high office to spare their families the scrutiny. Whatever the reason, I just wish there were more candidates out there that I really believed were willing to subordinate their interests to the interests of those whom they serve.

Edited November 2, 2008 by Brad and Vika

[Ling Ling 22]

I can give you several.

Advocating baby killing

You know this isn't true. We've been over this before. Not supporting legislation he believed to be redundant, is NOT advocating baby killing.

You know the difference between advocating something and not agreeing with legislation.

You know that people who are PRO-Choice are not advocating abortions.

You know that you are lying.

Traveling to "57 states"

No worse than Palin not knowing where the Great Northwest is...or McCain calling people, "My fellow prisoners".

Choosing Big Mouth Biden for a running mate

Reminds me of an off color joke I heard from a White Republican..."what's the difference between Sarah Palin's mouth and her #######?

Only one retarded thing came out of her #######."

Refusing to release his medical records, college transcripts, birth certificate, hiding other records.

So you're saying McCain has produced all of his records...especially the medical records?

Hanging out with terrorists and con artists

You're talking about things these guys did before Obama knew them.

What about the Keating incident and what McCain HELPED them do?

Putting down America at every turn

If there was any truth to that, he wouldn't even be a candidate.

Refusing to salute the flag

Another fabricated lie.

They were LISTENING to the "Star Spangled Banner".

He has never refused to salute the flag...and you only put your hand over your heart

when you PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE.

When you LISTEN to a SONG you either sing or you don't...but you don't put your hand over your heart.

Sitting in Rev Wright's church for 23 years and calling him his mentor

Claiming someone as a mentor doesn't mean you believe in 100% of their ideas.

You can have a mentor at work that is Jewish, and you're Muslim. It doesn't mean you've converted.

Long term illegal drug use

Define long term, and then tell us about Cindy McCain getting off on her illegal drug use.

Should I add more?

No...I think we have enough of your distortions and lies.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Why do you bother to ask for information? Why do I bother to answer? Liberals have such a fleeting relationship with the truth, it's pointless to offer it to them. And, so it goes . . .

Edited November 2, 2008 by Virtual wife

[mawilson 2,133]

Why do you bother to ask for information? Why do I bother to answer? Liberals have such a fleeting relationship with the truth, it's pointless to offer it to them. And, so it goes . . .

But you didn't bother to answer.

I asked you to provide a specific example of Barack's stupidity and you posted 20 examples

of things that are completely irrelevant. Who cares if he mixed up some dates in his book?

How is that even remotely relevant to his presidency or his intelligence?

[Ling Ling 22]

Why do you bother to ask for information? Why do I bother to answer? Arab Americans for McCain have such a fleeting relationship with the truth, it's pointless to offer it to them. And, so it goes . . .they try to throw sh!t against the wall to see if it sticks. It doesn't...and it's easy to tell who threw it, just take a sniff, or look at her hands.

Looking for Obama's Birth Certificate?

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=159905

So...just where is Palin's Medical Record???

John McSame & Sarah Plain

Because he's a POW, and her brain is MIA

Edited November 3, 2008 by Ling Ling

[웃 910]

Why do you bother to ask for information? Why do I bother to answer? Liberals have such a fleeting relationship with the truth, it's pointless to offer it to them. And, so it goes . . .

But you didn't bother to answer.

I asked you to provide a specific example of Barack's stupidity and you posted 20 examples

of things that are completely irrelevant. Who cares if he mixed up some dates in his book?

How is that even remotely relevant to his presidency or his intelligence?

I have a couple....

1) He said "Iran, Cuba, Venezuela, they are small countries, they don't pose a threat like Russia"...Listen to Barack say this and then flip flop at another rally and say that Iran is a grave threat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaG6s05MKeM

2) He said his American Uncle freed the Jews from Auschwitz!!! The Soviets liberated the Jews from Auschwitz.

3) Obama picked Biden because Biden is supposedly a foreign policy expert!!! Biden was against the Gulf War , first he was for the Iraq War, then he was against the surge in Iraq , and somewhere in between he proposed to split up (segregate by race) Iraq According to Biden, this formula makes sense:

One segregated section of Sunni + one segregated section Shi'ite + one segregated section Kurdish + one central government in Baghdad = One united Iraq?

4) He called his grandmother a "typical white person"

5) To this day he defends Ayers the former domestic terrorist

6) A non-partisan group determined that Obama says "ughh" and "ummm" in 78% of his sentences and is on pace to smash the world record for number of times saying "ughh" and "ummm" in a year