Translation of Divorce Decree

[mox 298]

This is an interesting situation. Try to imagine, if you possibly can, that Colorado has a separate language which is not considered THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE. This is the situation I am in with her living in the Udmurt Replublic - 1300km East of Moscow and maybe 500km from the Urals. You can learn something new every day. So, from my understanding, there is no requirement for this document to be translated into Russian with a further translation into English.

This is common in Russia, actually. Yoshkar-Ola is in the Mari El Republic, where they speak Mari and Russian. Kazan is in Tatarstan, where they speak two different languages PLUS Russian. Etc. But the only translations that are necessary are from whatever the document was written in, to English. No intermediates.

At work later this morning I will call USCIS and try to clarify if what I believe is necessary, after understanding the above concept , is accurate. Basically do I only need the 'front' of her Udmurt Divorce Decree and have this translated and notarized by a notary. Not as has been done, which is translated years ago and notarized on 5 November 2008 with no signature.

You do not need it notarized. You only need to have the translator say that they certify it's a true translation. And the word "certify" carries no other weight than just the translator saying they certify it. No stamps, licenses, or anything else involved. Anyone who speaks both languages can do it. Don't waste your time trying to get it notarized. And actually you'd probably have a difficult time finding a notary who would be willing to notarize it, unless they spoke the language.

An offer to help from a member here, very shortly on her way to Moscow from Siberia for her interview, has been very helpful to me and I relayed her offer to my SO to talk with her. I have no idea why she has declined to accept this offer. That's really not that important though. My energy is being focused on how to get this issue resolved. Someday in the future I will ask her why she did not want to accept this offer.

This is VERY common, don't worry about it. And don't push the issue with her. For some reason it tends to be a sensitive one. Maybe one of the wives/fiancee's can speak up and shed more light.

If my next few suggestions do not bring any results I will give her the Visa section phone number of the U.S. Embassy in Moscow for her to call.

Hahahahahahaha - I can still laugh...a good sign

Breaaaaatttthhhhe.

[bobb 0]

This is common in Russia, actually. Yoshkar-Ola is in the Mari El Republic, where they speak Mari and Russian. Kazan is in Tatarstan, where they speak two different languages PLUS Russian. Etc. But the only translations that are necessary are from whatever the document was written in, to English. No intermediates.

Does Yoshkar-Ola use Mari in their documents?

Don't waste your time trying to get it notarized. And actually you'd probably have a difficult time finding a notary who would be willing to notarize it, unless they spoke the language.

My current confusion is with the requirement for filing the I-129F, which is different from what she will need to bring to the Embassy in Moscow for the interview. Filing does not require notarization. For the interview, if the original is in a language other than Russian, it must be notarized. I can't imagine why the difference but it is there. The only obstacle, and it may not be an obstacle, is finding someone locally, or elsewhere who can read Udmurt. Looking at the Udmurt version it appears there are only a few letters that are different from Russian - An M instead of a T, the use of the letter u and maybe a few other minor differences.

This is VERY common, don't worry about it. And don't push the issue with her. For some reason it tends to be a sensitive one. Maybe one of the wives/fiancee's can speak up and shed more light.

I'm not pushing her. I have just tried to explain it might be better for her to talk to a Russian who can help. someone who knows exactly what is needed. I have sent this person the documents I've been sent so they would be able to have an 'intelligent' discussion. This morning there wasn't an email waiting for me when I awoke. When I called her, as I do every morning and night, after my morning post, she mentioned she did talk with Yevgeniya. We might each both know 200 words in each others language. At least 200 words or maybe more you would use in normal conversations. I'm not talking about knowing how to say chair, or cat, or refrigerator in Russian. So you can imagine the difficulty of trying to convey our thoughts concerning this issue on the phone. I quickly learned how to say Don't send by courier yet. I did learn she did call Yevgeniya. I will have to wait for her email tomorrow but she also said Yevgeniya said the documents she has will work. If that is the case I don't know what order to put them in. Not one of these documents sent to me had any explanation of what is what. I think I've figured out what is what but have no idea about the two signed notarization docs. I will have to wait until this evening to call Yevgeniya to see what she can tell me. From her last email to me she might be on the train for Moscow by now.

If anyone would like to go the a link I provide below (I have erased the names) to review what I have, and can then confirm these would be adequate for filing I would appreciate it. Or maybe these will only be good for the interview and I will still need to find someone who can read them and then translate and certify the Udmurt divorce decree. I would further need to know in what order to assemble them. The divorce decree in Udmurt is converted to 8-bit grayscale to reduce file size. The acutal printing of these from inkjet is very good.

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/bbrandt3/Documents#" target="_blank">

View Docs sent here!

</a>

When this is resolved it should help with the Marriage certificate docs I'm still waiting for.

Thanks Mox. I'm breathing fine and just looking down the road when we will laugh about this whole thing. She taught me an expression when we were in St Petersburg - Yalky - Palky!

Edited November 14, 2008 by bobb

[bobb 0]

I don't know what it did when I edited the previous post but here is the link:

Click here!

[mox 298]

Does Yoshkar-Ola use Mari in their documents?

All official documents were in Russian.

My current confusion is with the requirement for filing the I-129F, which is different from what she will need to bring to the Embassy in Moscow for the interview. Filing does not require notarization. For the interview, if the original is in a language other than Russian, it must be notarized. I can't imagine why the difference but it is there. The only obstacle, and it may not be an obstacle, is finding someone locally, or elsewhere who can read Udmurt. Looking at the Udmurt version it appears there are only a few letters that are different from Russian - An M instead of a T, the use of the letter u and maybe a few other minor differences.

For some reason I completely missed that it was being translated from another language besides Russian, even though we were talking about that exact thing. Derrrrrrr, sorry! You're right, translations from non-Russian to English must be notarized.

I can't see the photos very clearly on my work computer (I'm using a crappy monitor until my replacement arrives), so I'll have to check it out when I'm home.

Regarding the language issue...search the forum, plenty of others have run into difficulties too, and have found unique ways around them. The best online translator I've found so far (and it's not perfect) is translate.google.com. If she writes to you in Russian, you can usually copy/paste it into Google Translate and get a good idea of what she's saying. You can also write a letter to her, and then translate from English -> Russian. BUT! Translate it twice and massage it until it comes out right. I.e., Write the English version, translate to Russian, then translate the Russian output back into English, and see what got mangled. Fix until it comes out reasonably well. It still won't be perfect, she'll probably get a couple laughs, but at least she'll be able to read it. Also, get a Russian tutor. After you're married you'll be going back with some frequency. The more Russian you know, the more impressed your in-laws will be.

[bobb 0]

For some reason I completely missed that it was being translated from another language besides Russian, even though we were talking about

that exact thing...

I understand. I've done that myself.

Regarding the language issue...search the forum, plenty of others have run into difficulties too, and have found unique ways around them. The best online translator I've found so far (and it's not perfect) is translate.google.com. If she writes to you in Russian, you can usually copy/paste it into Google Translate and get a good idea of what she's saying. You can also write a letter to her, and then translate from English -> Russian. BUT! Translate it twice and massage it until it comes out right. I.e., Write the English version, translate to Russian, then translate the Russian output back into English, and see what got mangled. Fix until it comes out reasonably well. It still won't be perfect, she'll probably get a couple laughs, but at least she'll be able to read it. Also, get a Russian tutor. After you're married you'll be going back with some frequency. The more Russian you know, the more impressed your in-laws will be.

No problem with our emails. She has a friend who translates them, and she can even read English good. She just can't speak it well. The emails I receive are excellent and no problem reading. Just the common grammer errors. We used google translate when in St Petersburg. On the computer at apartment I set up two windows side by side. One for Russian --> English and vice versa. You have to really be aware not use any slang at all. It worked very good to get across any complex issues and questions.

Right now she has purchased a book with a couple CD's to supplement her limited knowledge. When I am there in January we will go to her Language Department at University and have them suggest a program for her to begin until she leaves Russia. I am also currently studying Russian. I have been slacking a bit lately because of preparation for the application. I did learn some very basic Russian a couple years ago...I have reached that level again in some areas, and exceeded in others. I know it will be a continual learning experience for me. I find myself answering Da a lot of time to people in general and at work. Before my trip in January I will really concentrating on family type conversations to learn. It's surprising I can understand more and more when she lapses into a sentence or two in Russian when we talk. There is a lot of Ya panimayu...panila?...chu chu...nyet...karasho, etc.

[bobb 0]

I'm not going to say I have it figured out...finally. I will just think this thought.

For the purposes of possibly helping someone in the future I will try to be as concise as possible...just remember I used the words try and possible if you slog through this entire post.

There was one additional doc I had not put up for you to view, but it is really irrelevant. On the back of the Udmurt Divorce decree is the Russian version.

After my last post I went to Wikipedia and did a search for Udmurt Language. Udmurt and Russian are co-official languages in the Udmurt Republic. The article says it has 5 more Cyrillic characters, but I could only count 4. They are Ӝ , Ӥ, Ӧ, and Ӵ. All Russian Cyrillic characters with the diaeresis added, like the Ӟ in both Russian and Udmurt. After reading the article and seeing how 'Welcome' is expressed in both languages it is obvious a Russian would not necessarily be able to read Udmurt. They showed a photo of an establishment in Izhevsk. I will have to search for this when I am there in January. Sure, they could probably guess at words as I'm sure many are very similar. From the Wiki article:

Based on the style, about 10 to 30 percent of the Udmurt lexicon are loanwords. Many loanwords are from the Tatar language, as well as phonetics, the syntax and so on. Words related to technology, science and politics have been borrowed from Russian.

A Russian's guess at some Udmurt words might even be as accurate as some of our guesses as we learn Russian.

Last night I called Yevgeniya to discuss with her, her conversation with Luba. Then I did what I should have done Wednesday evening after having received all documents. I sent an email back to Luba asking specifically what I had been sent and how they all related. Her response was waiting for me this morning. I even did one more thing last night while I was waiting for the response from Luba. I did a search at Google and came across a very interesting site. Not really applicable for us going through this process, but it addressed my question about the accuracy of there not being such a thing as a marriage certificate being available after a divorce in Russia. I was still hung up with the impression I needed an original Marriage Certificate and certified translation to submit the I-129F. I'll come back to this point after I finish my search result discussion.

This site answers questions about Divorce related issues with a Russian from a lawyer. If you are interested in seeing more specifics or if you know of anyone in the position of divorcing a Russian this might be a good link to investigate:

Click here!

Anyway, I clicked Ask Lawyer and asked if it was true there is no such thing as a Marriage Certificate being available after divorce in Russia. She confirmed this in an email to me shortly after I posted the question. What can be requested, which I was sent, is what she called certificate on change of maiden name, which my document title shows as Conclusion of Marriage Statement. I explained to her I thought I understand now what I had and thanked her. This morning I received another email from her asking me if I sent her scanned copies she could confirm my analysis. Why not? So I did this with a fuller explanation of what I felt I had.

Now, a new light bulb went off, I re-read Item 6 - C. of the instruction for Form I-129F:

If either you or the person you are filing for is using a name other than that shown on the relevant documents, you must give USCIS copies of the legal documents that made the change, such as a marriage certificate, adoption decree or court order.

Italics and bold added by me. For some reason, and I would guess others have done the same, I did not make this important distinction. She is not using this name currently. Just because here maiden name appears on the G-325a I felt this required the need for a Marriage Certificate or other document proving her maiden name. With my new 'enhanced' reading of instruction I don't feel this is necessary.

I have everything I need regarding this final item - The divorce decree in Udmurt with a notarization at bottom and the English translation. I suppose I 'could' include the maiden name change docs but I think it might be confusing to the USCIS Adjuticator trying to say something that is titled Dissolution of Marriage Certificate is actually just proving a maiden name, so why should I? Some say err on the side of caution. For this sole reason, instead of going down to the post office as soon as I finish this post and sending the petition off to the CSC, I'll wait until Monday.

From the beginning of the topic I've obviously been thinking a great deal. Some might say too much. I will add that some of my ideas on what to do next popped into my mind at 3:30am, or during work. I'll let you decide if I was successful in having a peaceful sleep after some of these 'revelations'! I don't want anyone to think these were light bulbs popping off in front of my eyes exactly when I needed.

I apologize for the length of this post. Oops...short break I need to call Luba - 12 hours difference... ... ... ... Let's see where was I...I think I'm done and I think I'll just be enjoying this very unseasonably warm weather here in Northern California the rest of the weekend. BTW the link to the documents is no longer active. I've removed them. Their purpose has expired and is not necessary any longer. I feel my explanations are enough for anyone in the future exploring this Topic.

Oh...one final comment for Mox's benefit. This was a comment Luba sent in her last email.

Robert, Thanks you for such warm and the remarkable letter. It has calmed me and has pleased to me. It has pleased, because you with such care and understanding have considered me.

Now I will very soon be joining all of the others in WAIT mode. Back to my studying of Russian and my daily emails and phone calls to Luba.

[Brad and Vika 129]

An offer to help from a member here, very shortly on her way to Moscow from Siberia for her interview, has been very helpful to me and I relayed her offer to my SO to talk with her. I have no idea why she has declined to accept this offer. That's really not that important though. My energy is being focused on how to get this issue resolved. Someday in the future I will ask her why she did not want to accept this offer.

Vika had offers from two VJ members/SOs to chat or help. I passed it along, and she thanked me and contacted niether. She hasn't appeared offended or anything, just disinterested. As Mox said, pretty common, don't sweat it. And keep laughing.