Is Obama really proposing anything new?

[AlHayatZween 2]

I think that this is one of the most heated elections in history and thats why there may be many topics posted. The reason behind why its so heated is because many people are fighting for change. They are fed up with all the nonsense from the past 8 years. They are also fed up with the corporations making big profits at the expense of the average guy. This includes the health care system, oil companies and the list goes on. Corporations are always going to be whining for more money even though they outsource all the jobs offshore. I work for a company that is laying off many people even though they are still making tons of money .... there is always an excuse for everything.

Sly

That is something i'd like to see in the next 4 years... some sort of incentive to bring jobs back to the US...

Wishful thinking, perhaps...

[HAL 9000 96]

I think that this is one of the most heated elections in history and thats why there may be many topics posted. The reason behind why its so heated is because many people are fighting for change. They are fed up with all the nonsense from the past 8 years. They are also fed up with the corporations making big profits at the expense of the average guy. This includes the health care system, oil companies and the list goes on. Corporations are always going to be whining for more money even though they outsource all the jobs offshore. I work for a company that is laying off many people even though they are still making tons of money .... there is always an excuse for everything.

Sly

That is something i'd like to see in the next 4 years... some sort of incentive to bring jobs back to the US...

Wishful thinking, perhaps...

Hasn't Obama stated he's for that?

[AlHayatZween 2]

That is something i'd like to see in the next 4 years... some sort of incentive to bring jobs back to the US...

Wishful thinking, perhaps...

Hasn't Obama stated he's for that?

He has...

but i hope he can deliver on the goods!

[HAL 9000 96]

That is something i'd like to see in the next 4 years... some sort of incentive to bring jobs back to the US...

Wishful thinking, perhaps...

Hasn't Obama stated he's for that?

He has...

but i hope he can deliver on the goods!

So do I.

[Gigli2008 70]

"Hell, I have a $4,000 tab I'm still picking up from one visit just because it wasn't at an authorized hospital, so they wouldn't cover #######. Is that something you really have to worry about in Canada? No, don't take my precious paycheck, and #### the rest of you? Good thing many Canadians aren't this selfish"

O.k. give me my 23K back and I'll pay your 4, 000 tab, I don't know where the heck my tax dollars went, my mother still had to pay 3,000 to have "necessary" back surgery to avoid ending up crippled, and that was with "free healthcare" AND she also was on a wait list for two years. It was awful watching her deal with the pain and limited mobiilty while she waited. I also paid 600$ five years ago for a 15 minute ambulance ride because "free healthcare" does not cover ambulance rides or the treatment you receive while in them. I slipped and hit my head in a hotel and their policy was to send me to the hospital so I would not sue them. I did not pay for additional coverage at the time because I was a student trying to save money (as you need to pay for additional coverage in Canada for things like that among many other services). I've lived with so called "free health care" but you need to understand that it is not a fail safe that Obama is trying to make you believe. Canada has many problems with it, people go untreated because hospitals and doctors do not have resources to see everybody or treat them quickly enough. That is the very reason there is a movement starting to privatize some aspects of Canadian healthcare, because tax dollars just can't do it.

I have read on Obama's policies (extensively). Although he advocates for Universal healthcare, this is not to be mistaken with whatever goes on in Canada. If you read on this, you will see a clear difference. Obama has said over and over again that Universal healthcare will only be ONE of the choices on the table. It is not going to be mandatory. If you already have employer paid Health Insurance, you can stay with that. If you are a stay at home mom (for e.g) or your employer is unable to provide you with the health insurance you need, you will have the option to buy into the same kind of healthcare the Congress afford themselves.

I have also read McCain's policies extensively and his is:

1) Tax your healthcare premiums -which has never been done before. This will lead to Employers and Health Insurance providers passing the buck to the employee, thereby making Health Insurance even more costly.

He also says that he will give a tax credit of $5,000 that will enable the citizen to go out and buy their own. What McCain does not explain is that Tax Credits just lower your taxable income. It's not cash-money. You are not going to receive a $5000 in the mail to go out for Healthcare shopping. So if you make $50,000 a year your taxed income is reduced to $45,000. Also what McCain fails to explain is that there is no healthcare available for $5000 a year. The cost of average health care is about $12,000 per year. Woe unto you if you have the misfortune of getting in an accident. Or getting diagnosed with a serious disease. Do I need to draw a picture here?

2)Reduce Medicare. Even as he continues to draw on Medicare benefits for himself, he says the current employees paying into Medicare will not enjoy the same kind of Medicare benefits currently being enjoyed by the seniors (and himself) today.

3)Privatise Social Security. Privatising Social Security essentially means that these funds can be put in investments. (I think he has thought this over in the light of recent Economic Crisis) Imagine if Social Security Funds had been in Wall Street during the most recent crisis. I think everyone who has paid into SS should expect to reap its rewards when they retire. Don't forget He has been receiving Social Security Benefits since he reached the threshhold.

Like I said, I am not trying to change anyone's mind. The OP asked to be challenged, so there is my opinion.

[sly_wolf 199]

That is something i'd like to see in the next 4 years... some sort of incentive to bring jobs back to the US...

Wishful thinking, perhaps...

Hasn't Obama stated he's for that?

He has...

but i hope he can deliver on the goods!

Yes, and no one will know if they dont give him the chance. If he is not able to deliver they can vote him out in 4 years.

Sly

[rupa 2]

"Hell, I have a $4,000 tab I'm still picking up from one visit just because it wasn't at an authorized hospital, so they wouldn't cover #######. Is that something you really have to worry about in Canada? No, don't take my precious paycheck, and #### the rest of you? Good thing many Canadians aren't this selfish"

O.k. give me my 23K back and I'll pay your 4, 000 tab, I don't know where the heck my tax dollars went, my mother still had to pay 3,000 to have "necessary" back surgery to avoid ending up crippled, and that was with "free healthcare" AND she also was on a wait list for two years. It was awful watching her deal with the pain and limited mobiilty while she waited. I also paid 600$ five years ago for a 15 minute ambulance ride because "free healthcare" does not cover ambulance rides or the treatment you receive while in them. I slipped and hit my head in a hotel and their policy was to send me to the hospital so I would not sue them. I did not pay for additional coverage at the time because I was a student trying to save money (as you need to pay for additional coverage in Canada for things like that among many other services). I've lived with so called "free health care" but you need to understand that it is not a fail safe that Obama is trying to make you believe. Canada has many problems with it, people go untreated because hospitals and doctors do not have resources to see everybody or treat them quickly enough. That is the very reason there is a movement starting to privatize some aspects of Canadian healthcare, because tax dollars just can't do it.

I have read on Obama's policies (extensively). Although he advocates for Universal healthcare, this is not to be mistaken with whatever goes on in Canada. If you read on this, you will see a clear difference. Obama has said over and over again that Universal healthcare will only be ONE of the choices on the table. It is not going to be mandatory. If you already have employer paid Health Insurance, you can stay with that. If you are a stay at home mom (for e.g) or your employer is unable to provide you with the health insurance you need, you will have the option to buy into the same kind of healthcare the Congress afford themselves.

I have also read McCain's policies extensively and his is:

1) Tax your healthcare premiums -which has never been done before. This will lead to Employers and Health Insurance providers passing the buck to the employee, thereby making Health Insurance even more costly.

He also says that he will give a tax credit of $5,000 that will enable the citizen to go out and buy their own. What McCain does not explain is that Tax Credits just lower your taxable income. It's not cash-money. You are not going to receive a $5000 in the mail to go out for Healthcare shopping. So if you make $50,000 a year your taxed income is reduced to $45,000. Also what McCain fails to explain is that there is no healthcare available for $5000 a year. The cost of average health care is about $12,000 per year. Woe unto you if you have the misfortune of getting in an accident. Or getting diagnosed with a serious disease. Do I need to draw a picture here?

2)Reduce Medicare. Even as he continues to draw on Medicare benefits for himself, he says the current employees paying into Medicare will not enjoy the same kind of Medicare benefits currently being enjoyed by the seniors (and himself) today.

3)Privatise Social Security. Privatising Social Security essentially means that these funds can be put in investments. (I think he has thought this over in the light of recent Economic Crisis) Imagine if Social Security Funds had been in Wall Street during the most recent crisis. I think everyone who has paid into SS should expect to reap its rewards when they retire. Don't forget He has been receiving Social Security Benefits since he reached the threshhold.

Like I said, I am not trying to change anyone's mind. The OP asked to be challenged, so there is my opinion.

Thanks for your post, this was the kind of dialog I was angling for.

Edited October 28, 2008 by rupa

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Who said new? The word Obama has been using is 'change'...and that one should be self explanatory by now.

O.k. I see your point, He says "Change!!!" and change he will be delivering, but change without forsight, careful estimation of the consequences, common sense and some aknowledgement of how his policies have failed in past administrations, is down right foolish. Convince me that he will not repeat the same mistakes that this great country has had to learn from in the past. Where is the foundation to his "Change", show me how it adds up to a better life for all Americans. The numbers don't add up, history has proven it. Do you really want to be a socialist nation?

Change without foresight, careful estimation of the consequences, common sense...etc. ? Details?

It'd be a lot easier to enter an argument with you if you gave specifics as to what you are talking about. Do I want a socialist nation? LOL...seriously, articulate what exactly your argument is and then we'll talk.

[sly_wolf 199]

Who said new? The word Obama has been using is 'change'...and that one should be self explanatory by now.

O.k. I see your point, He says "Change!!!" and change he will be delivering, but change without forsight, careful estimation of the consequences, common sense and some aknowledgement of how his policies have failed in past administrations, is down right foolish. Convince me that he will not repeat the same mistakes that this great country has had to learn from in the past. Where is the foundation to his "Change", show me how it adds up to a better life for all Americans. The numbers don't add up, history has proven it. Do you really want to be a socialist nation?

Change without foresight, careful estimation of the consequences, common sense...etc. ? Details?

It'd be a lot easier to enter an argument with you if you gave specifics as to what you are talking about. Do I want a socialist nation? LOL...seriously, articulate what exactly your argument is and then we'll talk.

People can only go by what both have demontrated or communicated so far. I see lack of judgement in the other camp that really concerns me. Change also does not come without some risks. If you are afraid to take a risk then nothing will be gained either.

Sly

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Who said new? The word Obama has been using is 'change'...and that one should be self explanatory by now.

O.k. I see your point, He says "Change!!!" and change he will be delivering, but change without forsight, careful estimation of the consequences, common sense and some aknowledgement of how his policies have failed in past administrations, is down right foolish. Convince me that he will not repeat the same mistakes that this great country has had to learn from in the past. Where is the foundation to his "Change", show me how it adds up to a better life for all Americans. The numbers don't add up, history has proven it. Do you really want to be a socialist nation?

Change without foresight, careful estimation of the consequences, common sense...etc. ? Details?

It'd be a lot easier to enter an argument with you if you gave specifics as to what you are talking about. Do I want a socialist nation? LOL...seriously, articulate what exactly your argument is and then we'll talk.

People can only go by what both have demontrated or communicated so far. I see lack of judgement in the other camp that really concerns me. Change also does not come without some risks. If you are afraid to take a risk then nothing will be gained either.

Sly

If you look at the two candidates or more accurately the two tickets, most of the arguments are ideological. Bush went farther right than Reagan ever did with such actions like his permanent tax cut on the rich. This country has had nearly 8 years to evaluate the consequences of the policies which the Republican Party continues to stand for. They are on the losing side of the argument.

[mawilson 2,133]

The Republican party needs to step back and reinvent itself.

Let the Democrats go on their wild spending spree of new social programs and run up a 20 trillion dollar deficit by 2012.

Maybe then the GOP will come back and become fiscally conservative again?

[rupa 2]

"Change without foresight, careful estimation of the consequences, common sense...etc. ? Details?

It'd be a lot easier to enter an argument with you if you gave specifics as to what you are talking about. Do I want a socialist nation? LOL...seriously, articulate what exactly your argument is and then we'll talk"

o.k. taxing the rich evil corporations to redistribute to the poor = socialism in most places. I understand so far that Obama wants to increace taxes on corporations so that he can fund welfare and social programs as well as a type of universalized health care.

What do you do when the companies don't want to play anymore, who's going to fund everything then.

[HAL 9000 96]

"Change without foresight, careful estimation of the consequences, common sense...etc. ? Details?

It'd be a lot easier to enter an argument with you if you gave specifics as to what you are talking about. Do I want a socialist nation? LOL...seriously, articulate what exactly your argument is and then we'll talk"

o.k. taxing the rich evil corporations to redistribute to the poor = socialism in most places. I understand so far that Obama wants to increace taxes on corporations so that he can fund welfare and social programs as well as a type of universalized health care.

What do you do when the companies don't want to play anymore, who's going to fund everything then.

New companies that want to do what companies do will take their place.

[rclouse 0]

Well, what part of the last eight years has gone right? Very little. We're going to get a President from the other party this time, for a change. Someone who is clearly intelligent, who will attack a problem by thinking with his head rather than acting with his gut. That's change enough for me to vote for him.

Let the Democrats go on their wild spending spree of new social programs and run up a 20 trillion dollar deficit by 2012.

Except last time the Democrats were in the White House we had a budget surplus. The Republicans have had plenty of chances to prove they're the party of fiscal responsibility, they've failed over and over.

I feel confident that Obama's progressive tax plan is going to stimulate the economy. Instead of "spreading the wealth" to the wealthy and hoping it trickles down, he's giving us a tax cut while raising taxes on the rich by just 3%. I did his tax calculator, my family of three (soon to be four) will pay $1800 less in taxes. That's $1800 we'll spend on home improvement, on a camping trip, on stuff our kids need. And that is going to stimulate the economy.

[sly_wolf 199]

"Change without foresight, careful estimation of the consequences, common sense...etc. ? Details?

It'd be a lot easier to enter an argument with you if you gave specifics as to what you are talking about. Do I want a socialist nation? LOL...seriously, articulate what exactly your argument is and then we'll talk"

o.k. taxing the rich evil corporations to redistribute to the poor = socialism in most places. I understand so far that Obama wants to increace taxes on corporations so that he can fund welfare and social programs as well as a type of universalized health care.

What do you do when the companies don't want to play anymore, who's going to fund everything then.

Are you sympathetic to those companies that have sent American jobs offshore for more profits? How does that trickle down to you?

As I said before ....

People can only go by what both have demontrated or communicated so far. I see lack of good judgement in the other camp that really concerns me. Change also does not come without some risks. If you are afraid to take a risk then nothing will be gained either.

Sly