Believers in Obama

[Marilyn. 340]

You will never be able to truly understand a person who chooses to have an abortion unless you've been in their shoes and had to make the choice. It's their body and their choice. Unless you want them to be able to decide what happens with your body then you can't argue with me.

The baby being aborted has a body, too, and it's being killed without a choice due to a self-serving mythology that it's:

1. not really alive;

2. only a clump of cells.

You're probably glad your mother didn't abort you.

Babies who survive abortion are NOT a clump of cells, neither are they dead until they re left to die without medical intervention, which OBAMA opposed.

<devils advocate>

You earn your money but your body is a gift from God (and therefore subject to God's laws).

</devils advocate>

Children are also a gift from God.

Exactly who is doing the killing? Is Obama forcing this woman to kill her own baby? Exactly what are you proposing, you have this innate ability to make statements with zero common sense, logic, suppositions, but not spelling out the detail.

Are you suggesting that if this woman begs for an abortion, has one, that Obama or any other leader kill her too?

Frankly, you do not know your history, a major reason for the 5-4 supreme court decision as narrow as it was, was to save women's life from back alley abortions. And are abortions really an issue? Happen to live very close to an extremely large medical complex and know for a fact zero abortions are performed there. There are no laws that force a medical institution to perform abortions. Even dated a couple of women that had messed up abortions, broke down in complete tears and confessed they couldn't have children. But perhaps that isn't enough for you, we should try them for murder as well.

You are very strong on your opinions, just wonder if you are making a living at it. But if you want an issue, drop abortions and become anti-war, totally disgusted we have a leadership that used lies for an imperialistic action of this once great country, this is not an America I want to continuer. War in history never has solved anything, but always money for war, very little for the good of people. This trend has got to end.

NickD - right on!

PlatypiusFace and VirtualBrat

Accept reality! Obama will win....oh and I will go away.....but I will be back to congratulate you on your new president!

It's all about change!

um,, platy is not a McCain supporter.. the picture in his sig is joke on McCain and Palin

[Welshcookie 17]

um,, platy is not a McCain supporter.. the picture in his sig is joke on McCain and Palin

[SpiritAlight 1]

You will never be able to truly understand a person who chooses to have an abortion unless you've been in their shoes and had to make the choice. It's their body and their choice. Unless you want them to be able to decide what happens with your body then you can't argue with me.

The baby being aborted has a body, too, and it's being killed without a choice due to a self-serving mythology that it's:

1. not really alive;

2. only a clump of cells.

You're probably glad your mother didn't abort you.

Babies who survive abortion are NOT a clump of cells, neither are they dead until they re left to die without medical intervention, which OBAMA opposed.

<devils advocate>

You earn your money but your body is a gift from God (and therefore subject to God's laws).

</devils advocate>

Children are also a gift from God.

Exactly who is doing the killing? Is Obama forcing this woman to kill her own baby? Exactly what are you proposing, you have this innate ability to make statements with zero common sense, logic, suppositions, but not spelling out the detail.

Are you suggesting that if this woman begs for an abortion, has one, that Obama or any other leader kill her too?

Frankly, you do not know your history, a major reason for the 5-4 supreme court decision as narrow as it was, was to save women's life from back alley abortions. And are abortions really an issue? Happen to live very close to an extremely large medical complex and know for a fact zero abortions are performed there. There are no laws that force a medical institution to perform abortions. Even dated a couple of women that had messed up abortions, broke down in complete tears and confessed they couldn't have children. But perhaps that isn't enough for you, we should try them for murder as well.

You are very strong on your opinions, just wonder if you are making a living at it. But if you want an issue, drop abortions and become anti-war, totally disgusted we have a leadership that used lies for an imperialistic action of this once great country, this is not an America I want to continuer. War in history never has solved anything, but always money for war, very little for the good of people. This trend has got to end.

NickD - right on!

PlatypiusFace and VirtualBrat

Accept reality! Obama will win....oh and I will go away.....but I will be back to congratulate you on your new president!

It's all about change!

um,, platy is not a McCain supporter.. the picture in his sig is joke on McCain and Palin

I wanted to highlight the red huge text.

For all you anti-abortionistic type people, do realize that you cannot have it both ways.

War-mongering and pro-lifing.

What a joke!

Every life is precious...even an adult life.

Go figure.

Soldiers are not pawns on some board game.

Bring 'em home.

Turn on the love and use those trillions (from policing the world) to take care of USian citizens and residents.

Think I'm idealistic?

Ha!

I think too many are blinded by corporate media (which serves only those who place ads).

Please wake up.

"You are living in a dream world Neo."

[Heracles 417]

For all you anti-abortionistic type people, do realize that you cannot have it both ways.

War-mongering and pro-lifing.

What a joke!

Every life is precious...even an adult life.

Go figure.

Soldiers are not pawns on some board game.

Bring 'em home.

Turn on the love and use those trillions (from policing the world) to take care of USian citizens and residents.

Think I'm idealistic?

Ha!

I think too many are blinded by corporate media (which serves only those who place ads).

Please wake up.

"You are living in a dream world Neo."

If the US immediately brings the soldiers home, Iraq will become a blood bath. It has to be a staged exit.

[dalegg 143]

I wanted to highlight the red huge text.

For all you anti-abortionistic type people, do realize that you cannot have it both ways.

War-mongering and pro-lifing.

What a joke!

Every life is precious...even an adult life.

Go figure.

Soldiers are not pawns on some board game.

Bring 'em home.

I love how you assume that everyone who is anti abortionist supports war.

[jundp 191]

this thread makes me lol

[Sofiyya 1,687]

this thread makes me lol

Get help.

[Amby 490]

this thread makes me lol

Get help.

why does she need help?

it made me lol too

[Welshcookie 17]

Get help.

Get a grip.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Link to the bill that Obama claimed he wanted his Illinois legislative committee to emulate, and relevant excerpts. I have emphasized the statements that comport with Obama's position in rejecting protection for born victims of abortions:

BORN-ALIVE INFANTS PROTECTION ACT OF 2001, H.R. 2175

Court struck down a Nebraska law banning partial-birth abortion, a procedure in which an abortionist delivers an unborn child’s body until only the head remains inside of the womb, punctures the back of the child’s skull with scissors, and sucks the child’s brains out before completing the delivery. What was described in Roe v. Wade as a right to abort ‘‘unborn children’’ has thus been extended by the Court to include the violent destruction of partially-born children just inches from complete birth.

The Carhart Court considered the location of an infant’s body at the moment of death during a partial-birth abortion—delivered partly outside the body of the mother—to be of no legal significance in ruling on the constitutionality of the Nebraska law. Instead, implicit in the Carhart decision was the pernicious notion that a partially-born infant’s entitlement to the protections of the law is dependent upon whether or not the partially-born child’s mother wants him or her.

Following Stenberg v. Carhart, on July 26, 2000, the United States Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit made that point explicit in Planned Parenthood of Central New Jersey v. Farmer,2 in the course of striking down New Jersey’s partial-birth abortion ban. According to the Third Circuit, under Roe and Carhart, it is ‘‘nonsensical’’ and ‘‘based on semantic machinations’’ and ‘‘irrational line-drawing’’ for a legislature to conclude that an infant’s location in relation to his or her mother’s body has any relevance in determining whether that infant may be killed. Instead, the Farmer Court repudiated New Jersey’s classification of the prohibited procedure as being a ‘‘partial birth,’’ and concluded that a child’s status under the law, regardless of the child’s location, is dependent upon whether the mother intends to abort the child or to give birth. Thus, the Farmer Court stated that, in contrast to an infant whose mother intends to give birth, an infant who is killed during a partial-birth abortion is not entitled to the protections of the law because ‘‘[a] woman seeking an abortion is plainly not seeking to give birth.’’ The logical implications of Carhart and Farmer are both obvious and disturbing. Under the logic of these decisions, once a child is marked for abortion, it is wholly irrelevant whether that child emerges from the womb as a live baby. That child may still be treated as though he or she did not exist, and would not have any rights under the law—no right to receive medical care, to be sustained in life, or to receive any care at all. And if a child who survives an abortion and is born alive would have no claim to the protections of the law, there would, then, be no basis upon which the government may prohibit an abortionist from completely delivering an infant before killing it or allowing it to die. The ‘‘right to abortion,’’ under this logic, means nothing less than the right to a dead baby, no matter where the killing takes place.

Credible public testimony received by the Subcommittee on the Constitution of the Committee on the Judiciary indicates that this is, in fact, already occurring. According to eyewitness accounts, ‘‘induced-labor’’ or ‘‘live-birth’’ abortions are indeed being performed, resulting in live-born premature infants who are simply allowed to die, sometimes without the provision of even basic comfort care such as warmth and nutrition. The purposes of H.R. 2175, the ‘‘Born-Alive Infants Protection Act of 2001’’ are:

(1) to repudiate the flawed notion that a child’s entitlement to the protections of the law is dependent upon whether that

child’s mother or others want him or her;

(2) to repudiate the flawed notion that the right to an abortion means the right to a dead baby, regardless of where the

killing takes place;

(3) to affirm that every child who is born alive—whether as a result of induced abortion, natural labor, or caesarean section bears an intrinsic dignity as a human being which is not dependent upon the desires, interests, or convenience of

any other person, and is entitled to receive the full protections of the law; and

(4) to establish firmly that, for purposes of Federal law, the term ‘‘person’’ includes an infant who is completely expelled

or extracted from his or her mother and who is alive, regardless of whether or not the baby’s development is believed

to be, or is in fact, sufficient to permit long-term survival, and regardless of whether the baby survived an abortion.

Obama objected to the above as opening the door to overturning Roe v. Wade.

this thread makes me lol

Get help.

why does she need help?

it made me lol too

Then, you need help. too.

[Ling Ling 22]

The video you posted was a sound-bite taken out of context.

The articles you sent were opinions that misrepresent the facts.

While Obama and others may be Pro-CHOICE, they are NOT Pro-Abortion...there's a huge difference that you should be able to understand.

I believe that people should NOT use abortion as a means of birth control.

I also believe that abortions should not be allowed beyond the 1st trimester unless there are significant risks to mother or child.

But if a woman is raped by a relative, should she be forced to go to term with the child?

Should women have a choice about what happens to their bodies?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

::Sigh:: Babies bodies mean little or nothing to liberals.

Ling Ling, I am a person of my word, and I kept my promise to you to post evidence. What you think of it, what you do with the information is up to you.

The video you posted was a sound-bite taken out of context.

The articles you sent were opinions that misrepresent the facts.

While Obama and others may be Pro-CHOICE, they are NOT Pro-Abortion...there's a huge difference that you should be able to understand.

I believe that people should NOT use abortion as a means of birth control.

I also believe that abortions should not be allowed beyond the 1st trimester unless there are significant risks to mother or child.

But if a woman is raped by a relative, should she be forced to go to term with the child?

Should women have a choice about what happens to their bodies?

[Ling Ling 22]

If the US immediately brings the soldiers home, Iraq will become a blood bath. It has to be a staged exit.

Please, seriously help me understand this.

It's a blood bath now. We're not fighting an Iraqi army, we're killing Iraqi citizens...but we call them insurgents so Joe SixPack doesn't think of them as people who are against the unlawful invasion by America.

I love my country, and I have nothing but respect for the brave soldiers who go into battle in her name.

I do not think that our greatest treasure "American blood" should be shed unless they are protecting against imminent danger to our homeland.

There are no WMDs in Iraq (the reason Bush SAID we had to go there). Getting rid of a tyrant such as Saddam was a good thing,

but killing innocent citizens because they're fighting an unlawful invasion....well that's beyond insane.

I keep hearing that we have to bring our troops back with victory. How do we do that?

How do we have a victory over an invasion where we're not seeking control of their land or assets...or are we?

How do you define a victory in Iraq, when all the insurgents have been killed?

[Ling Ling 22]

::Sigh:: Babies bodies mean little or nothing to liberals.

Ling Ling, I am a person of my word, and I kept my promise to you to post evidence. What you think of it, what you do with the information is up to you.

The video you posted was a sound-bite taken out of context.

The articles you sent were opinions that misrepresent the facts.

While Obama and others may be Pro-CHOICE, they are NOT Pro-Abortion...there's a huge difference that you should be able to understand.

I believe that people should NOT use abortion as a means of birth control.

I also believe that abortions should not be allowed beyond the 1st trimester unless there are significant risks to mother or child.

But if a woman is raped by a relative, should she be forced to go to term with the child?

Should women have a choice about what happens to their bodies?

Babies bodies mean a lot to everyone who has morals and values.

Babies bodies mean a lot to me personally. I would not want to see a child suffer.

That said, do you imply that you are anti-abortion?

Do you believe that a woman who has been raped should not have the CHOICE to an abortion?

Do you care enough about unborn babies that you believe a portion of your income should go towards supporting the women

and children who can not afford to live on their own?

Or do you think that the helpless babies should go out and find jobs for themselves?

You can't have it both ways. If you don't believe in choice, then you have to accept the responsibility.

It appears that those who are conservatives and anti-abortion, only care about the lives of the babies until they are old enough

to send to war, to be murdered by the state, to be in need of education and basic human needs such as food and shelter, or until they become part of the invisible homeless in this great country.

I remember my first time visiting Rome....never before had I seen such wealth in churches and so many genuinely needy people (children, crippled, and some missing limbs) begging outside. It was clear that the church loved them enough to want them to have life, but not enough to want them to enjoy life.

[Niels Bohr 72]

I gota give VW some credit for being able to tolerate the retaliation. However, I still disagree with her views or his views due to the fact that it's from someone else and without any credit to factual, or any key evidence that could sway a voter.

But, if VW wants McCain. Have it her/his way.

Let's see, in addition to commentary, I posted audio of him expressing his opposition to a neutral physician to examine the baby, transcripts from legislative session, and other such material, but it is not enough. It swayed me, but then, I'm not drunk on kool-aid.

I don't see the significance in those commentaries or the audio mentioned. The transcript revealed that there were alot of difference between the federal and state laws. How is that even connected to him being a liar? I don't see it.

He supported the federal and not the state because there was a difference. Obama mentioned that there was a neutrality clause that he wants in there. However, when it was implemented he opposed the bill. There are key details missing from this too, since, as the legislation session suggests, that there are major differences not just the minor ones of the neutrality clause. Therefore, the state and federal laws are entirely different and that the OP-ED article from the Chicago Tribune are neglecting this simple fact.

That is what I see, and follow from the analysis. Although, all politician lie. I don't believe that Obama is a Saint, but, these accusations requires thorough analysis. It's not like the WaterGate scandal.

Anyway, because Obama's position on abortion it's one of the reason you mentioned that you will not vote for him. That is a very reasonable, in you opinion, thing to do. On the other hand, most of your posts are talking in circular reasoning.