what's wrong with getting married during the first trip?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

We married quickly on my first trip after 3 years of online and phone chat, and had a very smooth trip through immigration. They seemed intent on approving us, even though I'm 21 years older than hubby is. At his interview, they didn't look at a single piece of evidence and asked only a few questions. He got his visa the next day. That's our story; every case is different. Insha'allah, all goes well for you both!

How was the wedding? Was it Islamic? Had you been born a Muslim or a Muslim for several years before marrying your Husband? Aren't you half Arab or whole Arab? I suspect there are other factors they looked at that increased your chances of getting the visa.

I'm sorry for the late reply, Olivia. I haven't been back since I posted that before now.

We had no wedding at all. We got our approval from the judge after the courthouse was already closed, then rushed it to the adoul, who had us sign the contract in front of two witnesses we didn't even know. No family or friends were present; no photos taken. We returned to his family home about 9 pm, ate dates, drank milk and got a few hours sleep before leaving at 2 am to board taxi and a train to get to the airport in Casa in time to catch my early morning flight back to the US. All that wasn't in our favor, but no one at immigration knew about it.

I am a born Muslim from an immigrant Palestinian family. I speak Arabic (despite rumors to the contrary) and French, and spent a lot of my childhood in Agadir, where I own a home. My deceased husband was Lebanese, so I had been thru the visa process before. But, USCIS, the NVC, nor the consulate never asked how we married, if we had photographs from a wedding or who attended. They didn't ask about my faith, my familiarity with the country or our shared languages. They asked nothing that we hadn't already told them, and what they didn't ask and we didn't tell.

I don't know why we skated thru so easily, but I don't think both of us being culturally Arab and Muslim was a factor in our success.

You actually had more red flags than we did if you base the denial on what was stated on the NOID. They stated:

1 Married right after meeting (the same for both of us) Yep

2 Small wedding (ours was small, but yours was smaller) Lol, it was non-existant!

3 No family or friends at the wedding (You really didn't, we did, they never asked who was there at the wedding) No wedding, just a 10 minute nikah signing.

But we were denied and you weren't...weird. But yes I am sure it was the sister issue here in the states. Maybe, we didn't have that.

I wonder if it is because you hung in there for so long for the IR1? Or because you knew each other for 3 years prior? I knew my husband for almost a year, but I think you did for 3, correct? Yes, we married after 3 years online, then, didn't rush thru the process. We waited more than a year to file, whipped thru USCIS, then took a leisurely stroll thru the NVC that took another year. By that time, 6 years had passed! The joke among friends is that they were so sick of us by the time we got to the interview, they gave him the visa just to be done with it. They certainly couldn't accuse us of rushing.

I also wonder if they had their hands slapped because they had such a large amount of baseless denials prior? I guess we could guess until we are blue in the face, but the bottom line is that it is a hit and miss thing. It sure is!

Edited November 2, 2008 by Virtual wife

[Sofiyya 1,687]

The Psychopath Next Door

Awesome book, I love that kind of stuff, that is why I chose psychiatry, but yet I haven't had a chance to see an adult Sociopath, seen teenagers whom in my opinion were sociopath, but we diagnosis that as conduct disorder. Now I am doing rotation and I feel more like a lawyer than a shrink, so many things about policy confidentiality, I just want to see some real live sociopaths. Ok now that you are a fan you have to read about Katherine Mary Knight, talk about a real live one, she is in Australia, I would give my left butt check to get a interview with her. She says she remembers nothing, you go and read this story and tell me if you believe her BS. She is a good one, of course I followed the Leonard Lake and Charles Ng, I have thought of writing Ng, but he is a very dangerous man.

I'm on the Iegal side; that's how my interest was fueled. I've spent some time on Charles Ng; he is not only dangerous, but very cleaver. Look how long he was able to hold off his trial. I'll check out Ms. Knight, I don't believe I've heard of her. It's amazing that there are so many bent people who find killing not only easy but neccesary and gratifying. My husband thinks I'm crazy, but, some of the things I've seen over the years just make me want to understand why.

[SaadBell 0]

I get real conservative when it comes to these kinds of people, I think they need to be put away period. I have colleagues that say they can help them, I am in the school that they are wired differently and there is no helping them. Charles Ng, don't trust him period, he escaped that first time and hid out in Canada, than you are so right about delaying that trail, he is the definition of SOCIOPATH. Let me know when you read about Kathy, I am dying to see what you think of her, she is one messed up lady.

[morocco4ever 63]

I get real conservative when it comes to these kinds of people, I think they need to be put away period. I have colleagues that say they can help them, I am in the school that they are wired differently and there is no helping them. Charles Ng, don't trust him period, he escaped that first time and hid out in Canada, than you are so right about delaying that trail, he is the definition of SOCIOPATH. Let me know when you read about Kathy, I am dying to see what you think of her, she is one messed up lady.

They definitely are wired differently. People that kill because of an emotional situation don't have the same issues, still dangerous however since they can not control their emotions. But these freaks kill for what they get out of it. I don't think this is curable.

Kind of like a child molester. I don't think they can be cured either. They may be able to control their desire, but the desire remains. I don't think people like this should EVER be allowed to be around children.

[SaadBell 0]

yep, child molesters are the same thing, wired differently sick puppy's. Why they continue to release these freaks is beyond me, but get caught with some marijuana and you will do some mandatory time, but get caught abusing or molesting a child, and most times we slap you on your hand and send you on your way, until you ruin many children's life's. So must up the justice system.

[notime4haterz 0]

Well as Muslims, which I'm assuming you are, we're not allowed to date. I talked to my husband for a few months and then he came to the US and we did our ketbit keetab only 5 days after he got here. We married legally later. My point is that you can explain that Muslims don't really date, and that getting married shortly after meeting in person is perfectly acceptable. How many cultures in the world even arrange marriages where you don't meet the person until after you're married??? I don't think USCIS will give you a problem. However, I would recommend that you at least spend a long first time trip together to know each other better. You learn so many things when you spend time together in person. My husband and I talk on the phone every single day, but during my last visit with him, which we spent almost 1 month together, I learned more about him than during the entire year that passed over the phone.

[notime4haterz 0]

Well as Muslims, which I'm assuming you are, we're not allowed to date. I talked to my husband for a few months and then he came to the US and we did our ketbit keetab only 5 days after he got here. We married legally later. My point is that you can explain that Muslims don't really date, and that getting married shortly after meeting in person is perfectly acceptable. How many cultures in the world even arrange marriages where you don't meet the person until after you're married??? I don't think USCIS will give you a problem. However, I would recommend that you at least spend a long first time trip together to know each other better. You learn so many things when you spend time together in person. My husband and I talk on the phone every single day, but during my last visit with him, which we spent almost 1 month together, I learned more about him than during the entire year that passed over the phone.

Let me clarify that. They will give you a problem if you marry quickly, but you have to provide a good reason to them. Also, you have to submit alot of proofs and such after you're married so they see that now you are married, and your marriage is real. If you just show up with nothing to show, then prepare for a denial! They deny somep people that do have evidence, let alone someone that comes and says, "We just got married, after meeting, alone, no party, family, or friends." I think that the advice people gave here is actually good advice and very honest and true. Immigration officers have all the power to deny you for any reason whatsoever. They were just advising you so you would be more cautious.

[SaadBell 0]

Well as Muslims, which I'm assuming you are, we're not allowed to date. I talked to my husband for a few months and then he came to the US and we did our ketbit keetab only 5 days after he got here. We married legally later. My point is that you can explain that Muslims don't really date, and that getting married shortly after meeting in person is perfectly acceptable. How many cultures in the world even arrange marriages where you don't meet the person until after you're married??? I don't think USCIS will give you a problem. However, I would recommend that you at least spend a long first time trip together to know each other better. You learn so many things when you spend time together in person. My husband and I talk on the phone every single day, but during my last visit with him, which we spent almost 1 month together, I learned more about him than during the entire year that passed over the phone.

There are a lot of cultures that don't date, and really it is between the two people. I always wondered why they worry about the dating and knowing each other, just take a look at our culture, dating, knowing each other well and yet most of these marriages end in divorce.

[nomadicspirit 0]

Well as Muslims, which I'm assuming you are, we're not allowed to date. I talked to my husband for a few months and then he came to the US and we did our ketbit keetab only 5 days after he got here. We married legally later. My point is that you can explain that Muslims don't really date, and that getting married shortly after meeting in person is perfectly acceptable. How many cultures in the world even arrange marriages where you don't meet the person until after you're married??? I don't think USCIS will give you a problem. However, I would recommend that you at least spend a long first time trip together to know each other better. You learn so many things when you spend time together in person. My husband and I talk on the phone every single day, but during my last visit with him, which we spent almost 1 month together, I learned more about him than during the entire year that passed over the phone.

Let me clarify that. They will give you a problem if you marry quickly, but you have to provide a good reason to them. Also, you have to submit alot of proofs and such after you're married so they see that now you are married, and your marriage is real. If you just show up with nothing to show, then prepare for a denial! They deny somep people that do have evidence, let alone someone that comes and says, "We just got married, after meeting, alone, no party, family, or friends." I think that the advice people gave here is actually good advice and very honest and true. Immigration officers have all the power to deny you for any reason whatsoever. They were just advising you so you would be more cautious.

salam narina,

thank you for taking the time to write, we do appreciate your support and we really appreciating all the advice people gave us here.

i just want to clarify something and that is despite the fact that the dating thing does not exist in the islamic culture but we think still the co will not care about it.

they have just set it as a red flag and therefore if we can just avoid it we will do.

we don't want to find ourselves in whatsoever trouble . dunno if we seem to care too much , but no matter what happen we will stick to eachother cause we are meant to be together for eternity.

peace to all

[diadromous mermaid 36]

Only you can really know what your husband's real intentions were, but from an outsider's perspective, there are very few alien's intent on perpetrating marriage fraud that will even conscion extending the family. By design or accident.

I had known my husband (online) for almost a year when I flew out and married him. I had spent a lot of time online with him, and knew him pretty well. I knew that it would take some time to get the approval for marriage, which would give me a chance to see if he was the same person online as he was offline. It turns out that he was, and we have been married for 4 years now. So it worked for us. So can it work? Yes. Does it always work? No.

Now from an immigration stand point. I think it was PB that stated that you have to look at this as a legal matter. I have to agree. It ticks me off that it has to be viewed that way, but who are we to fight immigration? So it is best to play the game their way.

Just some background information. We met online in November of 2003. My first trip out there was when we married October of 04. He had his interview in August of 05. He was denied a visa, and the petition was sent back to the USCIS with the recommendation of a revokation of our petition. The USCIS sent us a Notice of Intent to Revoke stating the following reasons:

1-Had just met in person, and got married

2-Had a small ceremony

3-No relatives and friends were at the wedding (This one was untrue)

I don't believe that these are the real reasons that we were denied, but it gave them a valid reason to deny the visa.

The bottom line is this. Perhaps if you marry on the first trip you will get the visa easy. Perhaps you will be denied. It is up to you how to handle it. If you take your time and get engaged, then make a second trip for the marriage it will increase your chances of having the visa approved on the first interview. If you choose to get married the first trip then it will increase your chance for a denial.

The total time it took us to get the visa, from the initial petition, was 2 years, and this would have been considered quick for a denial.

You can do as you please, you don't owe it to any of us to do it one way or the other. But on the other hand if things don't go well at least we all know that we gave you the best advice that we could.

Wow, they actually used the fact that you had a small ceremony against you???? So everyone is supposed to blow a ton of money or if you don't have a lot of money to begin with (as in our case) then it's fraud????? Boyoboyoboy, I should have pulled the Bridezilla act then and demanded a huge reception at the Yak & Yeti not to mention a big diamond from my hubby - I only have a silver ring so he is only out for the GC...sheesh....

We have 2 out of 3 on your list - we technically met in '06, called and emailed a few times but don't have any evidence before marriage(were not thinking it would go so far) so it's going to look as if we married right after we met, and we had a small ceremony, though his family was there and we have photos. I am scared... we are at NVC now and getting our stuff together, will be paying the IV Fee bill on Thursday. I will be having cataract surgery soon(on my one good eye) and am telling myself I won't worry about this visa mess until I get through surgery - my appointment with my Optho to set the date is on Friday... I can only deal with one crisis at a time...

Well since you've been married you've gone to see him several times so I think that's going to help you guys.

I hope you're right, Olivia... I am thinking we should have his family write a letter documenting that they have known me since '06, maybe that would help to make up for the lack of evidence before marriage??

Yes I read that in the guides you can get these kinds of letter from friends and family stating they've known it was a bonifided relationship since whatever date and have it notarized.

Then there are those of us who sailed through the interview, got the visa with no ap and the husband was commiting marriage fraud.. I am one of them , My husband got no trouble whatsover and was full of ####

[venusfire503 54]

I think there was some confusion about whether people were recommending not getting married the first trip for personal reasons, or for immigration reasons. Those are two totally different things. No one has a right to tell you what to do with your life. I think some people were just trying to warn you that it is more likely that your petition will be denied if you get married the first time you meet in person. Casa is a tough sell, even when you do things the way they prefer them to be done. It sounds to me from what I've been reading on these forums that more people get delayed or denied than get outright approvals. I know when we were going through the process, my sweetie met sooooooo many people who got the 221g. It made us a little nervous, to tell you the truth! Anyway, I'm kind of glad we knew so little when we applied for the K1, because there are so many reasons we might not have gotten approved. We considered getting married first, but the K1 seemed easier. And it was fast for us, too - he was here within three months of the day I mailed the petition! I've heard getting married in Morocco is a long, complicated process, too. If you want to do it, just make sure for your own convenience/sanity to find out as much as possible ahead of time, and do whatever paperwork you can right away. You don't want any problems whatever way you decide to proceed. If you decide to get married first, be prepared for possibly more of a battle. I wish you luck that it won't be (either way), and your journey is easy.

As many have said, no matter which way you decide to go, make sure to gather as much proof of a valid relationship as possible. Make sure to double check all of your paperwork. Lack of proof and lack of sufficient income are probably the two biggest reasons for delays and denials no matter which route you take or which country you're dealing with.

Good luck!

[notime4haterz 0]

salam narina,

thank you for taking the time to write, we do appreciate your support and we really appreciating all the advice people gave us here.

i just want to clarify something and that is despite the fact that the dating thing does not exist in the islamic culture but we think still the co will not care about it.

they have just set it as a red flag and therefore if we can just avoid it we will do.

we don't want to find ourselves in whatsoever trouble . dunno if we seem to care too much , but no matter what happen we will stick to eachother cause we are meant to be together for eternity.

peace to all

Wa alaikum asalam. Why don't you do what we did? We did our keetab only at first. Then after about 8 months we got married legally. This way you can tell them you had an engagement period and then married on such and such a date... and yet you can religiously be allowed to be together and also get to know each other's family, etc etc etc without worrying about doing anything haram. I didn't want to go into explaining the whole religious and cultural process. So I just tell people it was our engagement. Becuase when you say "religious marriage" they don't know it's different from a legal marriage...at least here in the US they don't realize we have a difference.

Also, God forbid, you find that you don't really get along so good in person...then you don't have to deal with a legal divorce and have this big mess on your hands.

Inshallah whatever you do turns out for the best.