How would you rule?

[IAMX 3,055]

What of John McCain was born to Martians? Should he still be President? If this is true, he should concede. Rules are rules.

Edited October 24, 2008 by SRVT

[Otto 83]

Hmmm....do you think MAYBE someone checked this out already?

[lucyrich 20]

John McCain was born at the Coco Solo U.S. military base in the Panama Canal Zone to U.S. parents.

I don't think this counts because aren't US military bases considered American soil? I think so.

And to answer the OP's question, sadly, I would vote no. Rules are rules and it wouldn't be fair if in fact he wasn't born on American soil. Now, if they change it to be otherwise, then I'm all for him being president.

Gotta be fair.

Diana

Sure, rules are rules, but you gotta know what they are. US military bases are NOT considered American soil for the purposes of determining whether a child born there is a US Citizen. See this Department of State document: http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86755.pdf

Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth.

Now, I suspect you're going to say "rules are rules and it wouldn't be fair if in fact McCain wasn't born on American soil", and therefore call for McCain to resign his candidacy.

Or are you going to look into things a bit further and see if, in fact, there's a loophole by which McCain can qualify to be president, despite the fact that he wasn't born on US soil? If you look for such a loophole for McCain, why weren't you looking for it for Obama? (oh, and I believe the loophole exists for McCain -- they're probably both natural born citizens within the meaning of Article 2.)

[Peikko 1,575]

We would rule wearing a large crown, set with many precious jewels, a wielding a sceptre and and holding an orb. We would have many court jesters to entertain us when we are bored. We would spend much time in a large castle planning tournaments. Off with their heads!

[Danno 1,228]

Neither may have been born on American soil, but both were born to at least one American parent.

Both are Americans and meet the minimum requirement to be elected President.

The fact that the OP purposely misspells Senator Barack Obama's name, speaks volumes.

Purposely in that countless others have called him on this, to the point where it is as obvious as the sun is bright.

I am neither a Democrat or a Republican, I am an American.

I would have absolutely no problem with a McCain presidency. He is a "Maverick".

However, his choice of running mate scares me to death. Palin is not qualified to be a 72 year old heartbeat from the presidency.

Question for the OP...how would you rule if you found out that Senator John McCain was less than honest

and distorted truths to gain an advantage...would you agree

he should give up his office after winning the election.

Yes/No

Explain

I have read a little about McCains situation as well, if it was proved he was not covered under the natural born citizen requirement, he would absolutely have to step down.

I really did not post this thread to try to further the story about Barak ... I don't even think there is merit to this claim against Obama, although I really have not followed the links concerning this story to read up on it, it just seem far fetched.

Lets be honest, McCain has "supporters" Barak has "Followers".

Wondering how these followers of "the one" would react is interesting.

Sure I could have use McCain with his similar situation but for 99% of McCain voters, they would not take it personally.

Would people be more loyal to Barak or the Constitution?

[IAMX 3,055]

I have read a little about McCains situation as well, if it was proved he was not covered under the natural born citizen requirement, he would absolutely have to step down.

I really did not post this thread to try to further the story about Barak ... I don't even think there is merit to this claim against Obama, although I really have not followed the links concerning this story to read up on it, it just seem far fetched.

Lets be honest, McCain has "supporters" Barak has "Followers".

Wondering how these followers of "the one" would react is interesting.

Sure I could have use McCain with his similar situation but for 99% of McCain voters, they would not take it personally.

Would people be more loyal to Barak or the Constitution?

I'd say, like Republicans, the Constitution doesn't matter for the sake of fan-dom.

I really hate both parties.

[Ling Ling 22]

I'd say, like Republicans, the Constitution doesn't matter for the sake of fan-dom.

I really hate both parties.

Hate is a strong word. I can't say that I hate them, but they both sure do piss me off.

It's the fault of BOTH parties that we are unable to exercise a true democratic right to TRUE choice in electing a president.

While there are good reasons to vote for either candidate, without this 2 party system, neither would win.

To the OP...please learn to fcuking spell BARACK. Once you do that, people might think you have the ability to be unbiased,

and actually take your posts seriously.

[sly_wolf 199]

Yep, its Friday and I wonder what some people are smokin in here.

Sly

[Danno 1,228]

I'd say, like Republicans, the Constitution doesn't matter for the sake of fan-dom.

I really hate both parties.

Hate is a strong word. I can't say that I hate them, but they both sure do piss me off.

It's the fault of BOTH parties that we are unable to exercise a true democratic right to TRUE choice in electing a president.

While there are good reasons to vote for either candidate, without this 2 party system, neither would win.

To the OP...please learn to fcuking spell BARACK. Once you do that, people might think you have the ability to be unbiased,

and actually take your posts seriously.

I spelled it that way to rattle one crybabies chain, forgive me if it raised your Blood pressure too.

[IAMX 3,055]

without this 2 party system, neither would win.

That's likely a good thing.

[Ling Ling 22]

without this 2 party system, neither would win.

That's likely a good thing.

That's what a lot of people don't understand. If some body says "pick this one or THAT one", they're not giving you a choice...there's only giving you the perception of a choice. You still have ZERO control, but they have placated you with the perception of choice.

This is probably a basic principle of child psychology.

So we pick one, and we're excited that we were given a choice...that way when all the ISH is fcuked up, they can say, "more than half of you CHOSE this president".

The answer....unplug ourselves from the BS of this matrix.

[Ling Ling 22]

I'd say, like Republicans, the Constitution doesn't matter for the sake of fan-dom.

I really hate both parties.

Hate is a strong word. I can't say that I hate them, but they both sure do piss me off.

It's the fault of BOTH parties that we are unable to exercise a true democratic right to TRUE choice in electing a president.

While there are good reasons to vote for either candidate, without this 2 party system, neither would win.

To the OP...please learn to fcuking spell BARACK. Once you do that, people might think you have the ability to be unbiased,

and actually take your posts seriously.

I spelled it that way to rattle one crybabies chain, forgive me if it raised your Blood pressure too.

Understood...a certain bit of rattling is a good thing...keeps you alert.

Blood pressure...nah, stays pretty low except when needed. I'm still new here, learning all the players. Carry on.

[panamania79 2]

John McCain was born at the Coco Solo U.S. military base in the Panama Canal Zone to U.S. parents.

You took the words right out of my mouth.I have relatives who were born on Howard AFB and when they came to the USA to live,immigration tried giving them a hard time because they weren't born in the USA.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Obama has failed to produce an original, certified copy of his birth certificate, so, the speculation continues.

From an article posted today:

Obama Refuses to Answer Birth Certificate Lawsuit

Friday, October 24, 2008 4:16 PM

By: Kenneth R. Timmerman

A Pennsylvania lawsuit alleging that Barack Obama is not a “natural-born citizen” of the United States took an unusual twist this week, after a federally mandated deadline requiring Obama’s lawyers to produce a “vault” copy of his birth certificate expired with no response from Obama or his lawyers.

The lawsuit, filed by former Pennsylvania Deputy Attorney General Philip J. Berg — a self-avowed supporter of Hillary Clinton — alleges that Barack Obama was born in Kenya and is thus “ineligible” to run for president of the United States. It demands that Obama’s lawyers produce a copy of his original birth certificate to prove that he is a natural-born U.S. citizen.

Berg's suit and allegations have set off a wave of Internet buzz and rumors, though Obama could easily have put the matter to rest by providing the federal court with the basic documentation proving he is eligible to take the oath of a president. But Obama has apparently decided to deny the court and the public that documentation.

The Constitution provides that any U.S. citizen is eligible to become president if the person is 35 years of age or older and is a natural-born citizen; that is, born in the territorial United States.

By failing to respond to the Request for Admissions and Request for the Production of Documents within 30 days, Obama has “admitted” that he was born in Kenya, Berg stated this week in new court filings.

Berg released a long list of “admissions” he submitted to Obama’s lawyers on Sept. 15, and asked that they produce documents relating to Obama’s place of birth and citizenship.

Instead of responding, lawyers for Obama and the DNC asked the court to dismiss the case. But Judge R. Barclay Surrick of the Eastern District of Pennsylvania has issued no ruling in the case that would have given Obama’s lawyers more time.

“There are lots of legal ways to stonewall,” a well-placed Republican attorney told Newsmax, who was not authorized to comment officially on the case. “But failing to respond is not one of them.”

“The first thing they teach you in law school,” he added, “is don’t put a complaint like this in a drawer. That’s how a nuisance case can become a problem.”

The 30-day deadline for defendants to comply with a discovery request is set forth in the Federal Rules of Civil Procedures.

“It all comes down to the fact that there's nothing from the other side,” Berg said after he filed a motion on Thursday for summary judgment.

“The admissions are there. By not filing the answers or objections, the defense has admitted everything. [Obama] admits he was born in Kenya. He admits he was adopted in Indonesia. He admits that the documentation posted online is a phony. And he admits that he is constitutionally ineligible to serve as president of the United States.”

In a contentious case, lawyers on both sides will haggle over the production of documents, and will frequently go beyond the deadlines, several lawyers told Newsmax.

“The rules are more often complied with in the breech rather than the observance,” a senior trial attorney who has close ties to the Democrat Party, but is not involved in the current case, told Newsmax.

“Lawyers frequently do not return telephone calls or meet discovery deadlines because of sheer inadvertence. Therefore, we do not consider a failure to respond as a ‘violation,’” he said.

Allegations surrounding Obama’s place of birth have been swirling for months. Earlier this year, the Obama campaign sought to put down the rumors by making available a computer-generated Certification of Live Birth, issued in 2007 by the State of Hawaii. [see the Certification of Live Birth — Click Here.]

Respected conservative blogger Ed Morrissey called the Berg lawsuit a “conspiracy theory” that had been put to rest by the Obama campaign over the summer but ”has arisen like a zombie yet again to suck the credibility out of the conservative blogosphere.”

However, the 2007 document produced by the Obama campaign omits key information that normally appears on birth certificates in the United States, including the name of the hospital where he was born, the size and weight of the baby, and sometimes the name of the doctor who delivered him.

In addition, the critics of the 2007 document note that Obama's father is described as “African,” a term used today. The formal language in official documents at the time — 1961 — would have identified his race as “Negro” or “Colored.”

The Web site snarkybytes.com has produced a vault copy of a Hawaii Certificate of Live Birth from 1963, issued by the Hawaii Department of Health. [see the vault copy — Click Here.]

In addition to naming the hospital and more details about the baby, the 1963 vault copy also includes the “usual residence of the mother,” and the “usual occupation” of the father. None of this information appears on the 2007 Live Birth certificate produced by the Obama campaign.

Berg has been a perennial political candidate in Pennsylvania, having run in Democrat primaries for attorney general, lieutenant governor, governor, and other offices without success. He served as deputy attorney general of the State of Pennsylvania from 1972-1980.

His credibility was tarnished by work he did for the far-left “9/11 for the Truth” campaign, which alleged in a federal lawsuit that the collapse of the twin towers in New York was caused by “controlled demolition” ordered by the president of the United States.

Nevertheless, in recent weeks, lawsuits have been filed in seven additional states demanding that Barack Obama produce an original vault copy of his birth certificate, to dispel the rumors that he is not a natural-born United States citizen.

The latest suits have been filed in state and federal courts in Hawaii, Washington, California, Florida, Georgia, New York, and Connecticut to compel Obama to release his birth records.

Lawsuits in Washington and Georgia are seeking state superior courts to force the states’ secretary of state, as the chief state elections officer, to require Obama to produce original birth records from Hawaii, or else decertify him as a candidate for the presidency.

Ironically, Obama mentions his birth certificate in passing on Page 26 of his 1995 memoir, “Dreams of My Father.” “I discovered this article, folded away among my birth certificate and old vaccination forms, when I was in high school,” he wrote.

Lawyers for Obama and the DNC did not return calls for comment on the current status of the case, or explain why the Obama campaign did not simply put to rest the whole controversy by releasing the birth certificate that Obama apparently cherished as a teenager.

In the past, questions about Sen. John McCain's legal status have arisen. McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone at a U.S. Army hospital. McCain had legal experts vet his constitutional qualifications, and he also disclosed a copy of his birth certificate.

[rebeccajo 14]

So if there has been a copy of a live birth certificate (which are different than birth records held in courthouse volumes, by the way) procured from the Hawaiian Dept. of Health, what is the problem?