Help me out here-Obama being foregin born and President

[Saddle Bronc 124]

Regardless of the country he was born in his mother is an American citizen and therefore he is entitled to American citizenship.

<hijack with context removed>

Unfortunately, not ground-reality USCIS/USDOS that it's so simple.

I have an Edmonton-born friend whose German-born mum had been naturalised in US, but didn't live in the country for 5+ years post-naturalisation. His older sister (US-born) "lucked out", but he didn't (Canuck-only).

Also, I met a woman of about 35 (then) in 2000 in Harrisburg who had a 14-year-old daughter (dad also white, dunno if American) born in India--who asked specifically to pray about the renewal of her daughter's immigrant visa, and who told me that the "automatic citizenship by birth" isn't quite as automatic in US as in Canada (any child born to a Canadian-citizen parent post-1977, is automatically a Canadian citizen).

Detail only: Ann Dunham was a shade under 19 at the time of Obama's birth; the rules at that time specifically stated that to register "birth of US citizen abroad", mum had to have lived in US as a citizen for 10 years, five of which had to be after her 14^th birthday--impossible to meet if he was born in Mombasa.

(check the wiki bios of Obama and Ann Dunham for the dates)

<reset context end hijack>

Edited October 24, 2008 by CherryXS

[Peikko 1,575]

There is nothing wrong with being conservative, and there is nothing wrong with voting for McCain. There is something pretty weird about bolstering your decision to support (even if this support is by proxy as it were as apposed to an ability to vote) by digging out bizarre conspiracy theories from whatever hole they are burried in.

[VisaJourneyLady 33]

Regardless of the country he was born in his mother is an American citizen and therefore he is entitled to American citizenship.

<hijack with context removed>

Unfortunately, not ground-reality USCIS/USDOS that it's so simple.

I have an Edmonton-born friend whose German-born mum had been naturalised in US, but didn't live in the country for 5+ years post-naturalisation. His older sister (US-born) "lucked out", but he didn't (Canuck-only).

Also, I met a woman of about 35 (then) in 2000 in Harrisburg who had a 14-year-old daughter (dad also white, dunno if American) born in India--who asked specifically to pray about the renewal of her daughter's immigrant visa, and who told me that the "automatic citizenship by birth" isn't quite as automatic in US as in Canada (any child born to a Canadian-citizen parent post-1977, is automatically a Canadian citizen).

Detail only: Ann Dunham was a shade under 19 at the time of Obama's birth; the rules at that time specifically stated that to register "birth of US citizen abroad", mum had to have lived in US as a citizen for 10 years, five of which had to be after her 14^th birthday--impossible to meet if he was born in Mombasa.

(check the wiki bios of Obama and Ann Dunham for the dates)

<reset context end hijack>

Well you don't have to worry about that stuff since he was born in Hawaii.

Regardless, are you saying that Obama was not only born in Kenya, but she had also spend more than 5 years after 14 out of the USA??? She lived in Washington state from 13 to 17. And then moved to Hawaii. Where are the missing years she supposedly spent outside of the US?? And what has it got to do with where Obama was born?

[Peikko 1,575]

Hell, the next thing we know, we'll discover Obama has no father and there's a 666 tattoed on his head.

[Saddle Bronc 124]

Well you don't have to worry about that stuff since he was born in Hawaii.

Regardless, are you saying that Obama was not only born in Kenya, but she had also spend more than 5 years after 14 out of the USA??? She lived in Washington state from 13 to 17. And then moved to Hawaii. Where are the missing years she supposedly spent outside of the US?? And what has it got to do with where Obama was born?

You're missing the rather obvious here--if he was born in Kenya, then she could not have lived continuously in US for 5+ years after her 14^th birthday.

Simple math: 18.9 - 14 = 4.9, which is less than 5.

BTW. I cannot even comprehend how you came up with the portion highlighted in red.

[lucyrich 20]

Regardless of the country he was born in his mother is an American citizen and therefore he is entitled to American citizenship. I say this has conspiracy theory all over it!

Being a natural born Citizen in the US is a requirement for being President.

There ARE some interesting issues here. Let me preface the discussion with the fact that I have no reason to doubt Obama's Hawaii birth certificate that's been widely publicized, and I think Berg is a nutcase. But for the sake of illuminating the citizenship laws of our country, let's assume for a moment that Obama wasn't born in the US...

The rules for acquiring citizenship at birth are summarized here:

http://www.travel.state.gov/law/info/info_609.html

At the time he was born, the law was that, if a child is born overseas to two married parents, where one is an alien and the other is a citizen, the child will be a US Citizen at birth only if, before the birth, the US Citizen parent had lived in the US for a total of ten years, five years of which must have been after the parent's fourteenth birthday. The "five years living in the US after the 14th birthday" requirement wasn't met by Obama's mother, because she was under 19 years old at the time of his birth. So if you believe he was born overseas in wedlock, you'd have to believe he's not a US Citizen. (BTW, the current requirement is only five years physical presence in the US, 2 years of which must be after the 14th birthday).

But, if you read other conspiracy nutcase sites that talk about his birth, some indicate that he was born out of wedlock. If that was the case, he would have acquired US Citizenship at the time of his birth if his mother had previously spent at least one year in the US at any time in her life before Obama was born. She clearly met this residency requirement. It's interesting that the laws for passing citizenship for birth out of wedlock are so much more lenient than those for passing citizenship for birth within wedlock, but who am I to judge the wisdom of Congress?

Furthermore, there's the issue of whether birth abroad to a US Citizen parent constitutes being a "natural born citizen" for the purposes of Article 2 of the Constitution. The phrase "Natural Born Citizen" doesn't appear anywhere else in the Constitution, and no court has ruled as to its meaning, so there's some room for debate among legal scholars as to exactly what it means. Most opinion is that it probably means anyone who is a US Citizen without having to go through naturalization -- that is, anyone who is a US Citizen at birth, regardless of where born. But until the supreme court rules on it, there's room to argue that it might have a more restrictive meaning -- perhaps it means anyone born in the US.

If you believe that a US Citizen born abroad is not a "natural born citizen", then John McCain is not a natural born citizen. He was born on a military base in Panama, and obtained his citizenship through the fact that his parents were both US Citizens and had resided in the US prior to his birth. Note that a military base is NOT considered US soil for the purposes of whether a person born there is automatically a US Citizen. For reference on this point, see http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86755.pdf

Despite widespread popular belief, U.S. military installations abroad and U.S. diplomatic or consular facilities are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth.

After all that, let me repeat that I believe Obama was born in Hawaii, and is a natural born citizen and qualified to be President. I was just writing the above for entertainment purposes to illustrate the issues about US Citizenship law.

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

Thanks everyone! This is all very interesting.

[Peikko 1,575]

There is nothing wrong with being conservative, and there is nothing wrong with voting for McCain. There is something pretty weird about bolstering your decision to support (even if this support is by proxy as it were as apposed to an ability to vote) by digging out bizarre conspiracy theories from whatever hole they are burried in.

Re-posted in larger, bolder letters for Metta, who seems a tad confused about my state of mind

[Ling Ling 22]

It's pretty clear that the owner of the ObamaCrimes site is primarily interested in donations.

Otherwise, I'd guess there'd be more...crimes listed or investigated.

This guy is preying on the gullible uninformed pundits that will grab onto any chance of hope for

victory regardless of its basis, truthfulness, or authenticity.

[Saddle Bronc 124]

Quote from 2008/10/04 WND article on this (no ripostes about source please):

Despite assertions by the Washington Post, FactChecker.org and other organizations that Obama has produced a certified Hawaiian birth certificate, Berg told WND he remains "99.99 percent sure" that the certificate is a fake and he wants a court, not a website, to determine its validity

So, I'll take it that Obama was born in Hawaii and not Mombasa.

That being said, he reminds me greatly of a cross between (Pierre) Trudeau and (Jesse) Jackson--meaning I'd go as far as write-in of an ineligible candidate (such as my favourite entertainer) to prevent Obama from being elected.

[rebeccajo 14]

Quote from 2008/10/04 WND article on this (no ripostes about source please):

Despite assertions by the Washington Post, FactChecker.org and other organizations that Obama has produced a certified Hawaiian birth certificate, Berg told WND he remains "99.99 percent sure" that the certificate is a fake and he wants a court, not a website, to determine its validity

So, I'll take it that Obama was born in Hawaii and not Mombasa.

That being said, he reminds me greatly of a cross between (Pierre) Trudeau and (Jesse) Jackson--meaning I'd go as far as write-in of an ineligible candidate (such as my favourite entertainer) to prevent Obama from being elected.

What makes him so freaking sure? Because he wants to be?

Birth certificates are a matter of public record. Anybody can get a copy of them. If Berg wants to know so badly, then all he or anyone else needs do is ring up the County Clerk on the island he was born on and have a copy sent over.

PS - Obama was conceived out of wedlock. He was born six months after his parents marriage.

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

Quote from 2008/10/04 WND article on this (no ripostes about source please):

Despite assertions by the Washington Post, FactChecker.org and other organizations that Obama has produced a certified Hawaiian birth certificate, Berg told WND he remains "99.99 percent sure" that the certificate is a fake and he wants a court, not a website, to determine its validity

So, I'll take it that Obama was born in Hawaii and not Mombasa.

That being said, he reminds me greatly of a cross between (Pierre) Trudeau and (Jesse) Jackson--meaning I'd go as far as write-in of an ineligible candidate (such as my favourite entertainer) to prevent Obama from being elected.

What makes him so freaking sure? Because he wants to be?

Birth certificates are a matter of public record. Anybody can get a copy of them. If Berg wants to know so badly, then all he or anyone else needs do is ring up the County Clerk on the island he was born on and have a copy sent over.

PS - Obama was conceived out of wedlock. He was born six months after his parents marriage.

In Hawaii they consider birth certificates private and will not distribute them otherwise Berg would already have a copy.