Global Warming Math: The Hard Numbers

[SpiritAlight 1]

David Suzuki spoke a long time ago about how much the trees are worth if we stopped cutting them down.

As it is an opportunist looks at an old growth tree and sees a $5000 tree, cut down and cut up.

What they failed to realize, is the value of that tree left standing.

How much work it does to hold the soil in place, help filter water, house countless animal species, and the biggie: filter the air.

For free.

The trees do what would cost "man" trillions of dollars!

There is no nature in an economic chart.

Will man ever learn?

Bah!

What does this have to do with global warming.

A lot!

[SpiritAlight 1]

There's this story.

Suzuki had told it at a seminar a long time ago.

I will try and remember it.

Once upon a time, there was a test tube and some microbes lived there.

Two actually, and they were very happy.

They had tons of space and nutrients and life was great.

Each day they doubled in numbers.

And so, on and on it went and no one worried about it as there was still lots of space and food.

Pretty soon though things were getting a little bit crowded and some of the microbe scientists noticed that being they double each day and there is a finite amount of space, and food of course.

And they started to tell people that they needed to stop living the high life as if this would last forever and become aware of the future and what was to come.

No one worried until they were almost at half way full.

At this point almost everyone took notice because it would not be long before they would double and fill up their home, the test tube.

So all money, all resources were thrown at the microbe scientists to come up with a solution.

They did!

They created a whole new test tube full of food/nutrients!

Yippee, rejoiced the microbes.

And the next day they doubled and filled up their test tube, and the day after that they doubled again and filled up the other one.

The End.

Disclaimer: I actually don't remember it exactly, and you may get my point anyways.

[DEDixon 39]

Thanks for the thread Steven. Perhaps after we're done doing arithmetic we can look at the issue itself.

The issue is... global warming is unstoppable. Some people will get fukced. Others will get comfortably warmer.

You can either accept it or keep whining about it for the next 100 years.

People? Try whole ecosystems....and it's not about stopping global warming literally, but greatly reducing the human factors that are greatly increasing global warming.

if there's less people and there is also less places to live then we'll be ok. i'm serious about purchasing islands in canada. you all think i'm crazy but you'll see. they start at about $20K

Think bigger. Plants and wildlife going into mass extinction. Worldwide disease, natural catastrophes. We're already seeing the beginning of what is to come, however, we can dramatically slow down and perhaps reverse some of the human damage we've done to accelerate global warming.

What a lovely piece of fear mongering!

Our local water is bad... plain toxic!... OMG!!! ... buy bottled water!

Credit Report Monitoring.... someone is going to steal your identity.... OMG I better buy me some monthly monitoring!

Harmful chemicals in your tomato.... OMG... now I have to buy organic.

Germs on the grocery store shopping cart handle... OMG!!! I need a handy little protector that I can put on the handle (yeah, this really exists!)

Too bad there isn't any fear mongering around going into debt for new cars and 50 inch flat screen TVs. Too bad there is no fear mongering around not having any money in your savings account. Too bad there isn't any fear mongering around having a huge balance on your credit card and not having any savings.

Seems all the fear mongering is geared toward taking money out of your pocket rather than keeping it there.

But back on topic, here where I live, Bay Area, California, the greenies are now prohibiting a fire in the "fireplace" on days which they say are "bad air" days. Wow, now they're in my living room. I wonder when the smoke stack police will show up at my door.... OMG... I'm scared to death of the smoke stack police.

Edited October 24, 2008 by DEDixon

[NickD 203]

At a period in time of the earth's 5 billion year history, the atmosphere was 100% oxygen that caused the earth to remain in a frozen state for over 3 million years. But by some miracle, and enzyme developed to put carbon in the air to warm things up a bit.

Methane is the leading cause of both global warming and ozone layer destruction, always has been until an idiot with even a science degree said otherwise, behooves me why idiots like this get into power with an idiot following. Trees falling in the forest that are dead, they do have a life span, decay and from methane, plus are mass use of cattle and sewage disposal systems generate billions of tons of methane. This methane can be recovered and used and would be done if we had intelligent leaders.

But if you are really concerned about CO2 emissions, you can do your part by holding your breathe.

[HAL 9000 96]

Horse hockeys. We sure as hell can with the will. There's already overwhelming public support for addressing Global Warming through changes in public policy, all we need is the political will. Hell, even people like Pat Robertson and Newt Gringich have jumped on board. We can make a difference and although it will require some personal sacrifice, it doesn't mean you'll have to eat tree bugs and live in a grass hut.

Its awesome to see your optimism in the spirit of human nature. I wish I had that but there's no way I believe that very many people in the U.S. are willing to make enough sacrifices to make a dent in global warming trends. Do you think China will reverse direction? How about Russia? How about the developing nations in Africa who are desperately seeking cheap energy solutions while their hydro-electric plants are cutting down their much needed water supplies and they're sitting on 50 billion tons of cheap coal. No matter what minute amount of CO2 emissions we in the US take, these other countries will be right there to quickly fill the void. We're doomed I tell you. Doomed.

They sure could reverse course if they got nudged in investing in the right direction.

Including... us here at home.

Besides- environmental cause aside... who thinks we're going to rely on guzzling technologies and habits for much longer anyway? It would be too stupid to assume a 'yes' given all we've gone through as a world economy as of late. Eventually all that green fad will turn into financial common sense.

My a$. Its not going to take a nudge. Domestically it will take serious regulation. For the rest of the world it will take nukes. By the time it becomes more economical for the average joe to go green the ice caps are gone- and when that happens there is NOTHING anyone can do. Sorry. Doomed. By the way, do you think there is any chance at all that all of the ice that is melting is actually going to stop melting? Dude, they are just a couple decades away! Nobody has ever said they are going to actually reduce temperatures in any short term, just reduce the rate of emission growth, and then maybe by 2020 actually reduce emissions- but that is only in the U.S, Europe, and a few other develped countries!! Every day we stay exactly as we are the ice caps will melt at least at the rate they are melting now, and we aren't staying the way we are- we are getting worse. It is going to take a giant ice cube the size of australia in the next 10 years to stop the ice from melting. Other than than, forget about it.

Of course, we're talking about a VJ nudge.

BTW- I do not see total melt as a mere couple of decades away. This planet does have homeostatic capacity which means that while the reaction to the high rate of emissions themselves by the planet itself is why we're seeing crazier weather patterns as of late. Conclusion? Reduce now, change as you go. The planet will stop 'overreacting.'

Now do I agree with you with what will probably happen in the pragmatic world of economics? Sure. I just think that we need to think about who the biggest contributors to the entire problem are. Namely, us and the rest of the overconsuming hyperindustrial world.

I think the latest market pseudocrash can attest to the do-nothing stoic attitude some are displaying when it comes to actually correcting financial wrongs. The environment perhaps won't be as forgiving to us as a species, but perhaps it can if we did things instead of being so gloomy.

[HAL 9000 96]

At a period in time of the earth's 5 billion year history, the atmosphere was 100% oxygen that caused the earth to remain in a frozen state for over 3 million years. But by some miracle, and enzyme developed to put carbon in the air to warm things up a bit.

Methane is the leading cause of both global warming and ozone layer destruction, always has been until an idiot with even a science degree said otherwise, behooves me why idiots like this get into power with an idiot following. Trees falling in the forest that are dead, they do have a life span, decay and from methane, plus are mass use of cattle and sewage disposal systems generate billions of tons of methane. This methane can be recovered and used and would be done if we had intelligent leaders.

But if you are really concerned about CO2 emissions, you can do your part by holding your breathe.

I'm curious, after having taken a few molecular evolution courses a while back, what miraculous enzyme that was?

Our atmosphere went from highly nitrogenated/sulfurized/methanated to higly carbonized(CO2)/nitrogenated thanks to photocemistry (hint: the Sun) and the advent of life. Then came photosynthetic life and a subsequent increase of oxygenation. Posterior extinction events and additional atmospheric changes from mass volcanic periods created an atmosphere where plant life decreased while the amount of respiratory life increased. Then we reached the balanced atmosphere we enjoy today.

Methane is what it is. Nobody is refuting its adverse effects on the global climate scene. If anything, a science degree can teach any idiot to be able to not refute real evidence or the combination thereof. But again, a science degree is not mandatory to be able to think logically and in the whole picture.

Edited October 24, 2008 by HAL 9000

[Danno 1,228]

The bottom line here is:

Will we (Europe/American) give up the energy/resources consuming lives we now enjoy?

What we are willing to do is vote for someone... anyone, who can make us believe that if we will just pay a tax increase to fund this billion dollar research program and we can go on living our sweet life with only minor adjustments and BAM, problem will be solved.

We are not ready for the truth if the truth actually is:

WE CAN STOP IT

[HAL 9000 96]

The bottom line here is:

Will we (Europe/American) give up the energy/resources consuming lives we now enjoy?

What we are willing to do is vote for someone... anyone, who can make us believe that if we will just pay a tax increase to fund this billion dollar research program and we can go on living our sweet life with only minor adjustments and BAM, problem will be solved.

We are not ready for the truth if the truth actually is:

WE CAN STOP IT

Good.

I truly hope that if Obama wins that he will put into place said research and development projects so that we can use and export technology that actually makes a difference.

Edited October 24, 2008 by HAL 9000

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The bottom line here is:

Will we (Europe/American) give up the energy/resources consuming lives we now enjoy?

What we are willing to do is vote for someone... anyone, who can make us believe that if we will just pay a tax increase to fund this billion dollar research program and we can go on living our sweet life with only minor adjustments and BAM, problem will be solved.

We are not ready for the truth if the truth actually is:

WE CAN STOP IT

I'd encourage you, Danno, to read into what innovative ideas are out there and what are reasonable measures each person can take to help conserve energy. Even if you don't feel motivated by Global Warming, then you should at least be motivated to help us reduce our dependency on Foreign Oil.

[HAL 9000 96]

It is a win-win, isn't it?

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

The projected cost of climate change worldwide by 2100, if we take a “business as usual” approach, according to a report published by the Natural Resources Defense Council. Hurricane damage, real estate losses due to sea level rise, and expenses associated with drought all contribute.

So, let me get this straight.

If we do nothing, the cost over the next 100 years will be ONLY $1.8 trillion?

That's it? Damn, even the financial crisis of 2008 cost us more than that.

I suggest we do nothing!

Good plan. But Al Gore's carbon credit company will suffer.

[dalegg 143]

Horse hockeys. We sure as hell can with the will. There's already overwhelming public support for addressing Global Warming through changes in public policy, all we need is the political will. Hell, even people like Pat Robertson and Newt Gringich have jumped on board. We can make a difference and although it will require some personal sacrifice, it doesn't mean you'll have to eat tree bugs and live in a grass hut.

Its awesome to see your optimism in the spirit of human nature. I wish I had that but there's no way I believe that very many people in the U.S. are willing to make enough sacrifices to make a dent in global warming trends. Do you think China will reverse direction? How about Russia? How about the developing nations in Africa who are desperately seeking cheap energy solutions while their hydro-electric plants are cutting down their much needed water supplies and they're sitting on 50 billion tons of cheap coal. No matter what minute amount of CO2 emissions we in the US take, these other countries will be right there to quickly fill the void. We're doomed I tell you. Doomed.

They sure could reverse course if they got nudged in investing in the right direction.

Including... us here at home.

Besides- environmental cause aside... who thinks we're going to rely on guzzling technologies and habits for much longer anyway? It would be too stupid to assume a 'yes' given all we've gone through as a world economy as of late. Eventually all that green fad will turn into financial common sense.

My a$. Its not going to take a nudge. Domestically it will take serious regulation. For the rest of the world it will take nukes. By the time it becomes more economical for the average joe to go green the ice caps are gone- and when that happens there is NOTHING anyone can do. Sorry. Doomed. By the way, do you think there is any chance at all that all of the ice that is melting is actually going to stop melting? Dude, they are just a couple decades away! Nobody has ever said they are going to actually reduce temperatures in any short term, just reduce the rate of emission growth, and then maybe by 2020 actually reduce emissions- but that is only in the U.S, Europe, and a few other develped countries!! Every day we stay exactly as we are the ice caps will melt at least at the rate they are melting now, and we aren't staying the way we are- we are getting worse. It is going to take a giant ice cube the size of australia in the next 10 years to stop the ice from melting. Other than than, forget about it.

Of course, we're talking about a VJ nudge.

BTW- I do not see total melt as a mere couple of decades away. This planet does have homeostatic capacity which means that while the reaction to the high rate of emissions themselves by the planet itself is why we're seeing crazier weather patterns as of late. Conclusion? Reduce now, change as you go. The planet will stop 'overreacting.'

Now do I agree with you with what will probably happen in the pragmatic world of economics? Sure. I just think that we need to think about who the biggest contributors to the entire problem are. Namely, us and the rest of the overconsuming hyperindustrial world.

I think the latest market pseudocrash can attest to the do-nothing stoic attitude some are displaying when it comes to actually correcting financial wrongs. The environment perhaps won't be as forgiving to us as a species, but perhaps it can if we did things instead of being so gloomy.

Yeah, I was a bit ahead of schedule on the melting. Maybe not till the end of the century, but in the not so distance future, enough of the North Pole melts to where we can get to a whole new supply of untapped fossil fuel, so we will probably make it almost till the ice is gone before we have no choice on what we use to fuel our cars.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

David Suzuki spoke a long time ago about how much the trees are worth if we stopped cutting them down.

As it is an opportunist looks at an old growth tree and sees a $5000 tree, cut down and cut up.

What they failed to realize, is the value of that tree left standing.

How much work it does to hold the soil in place, help filter water, house countless animal species, and the biggie: filter the air.

For free.

The trees do what would cost "man" trillions of dollars!

There is no nature in an economic chart.

Will man ever learn?

Bah!

What does this have to do with global warming.

A lot!

We grow more trees every day.