The Wealth Divide The Growing Gap in the United States Between the Rich and the Rest

[peejay 327]

So we either have become enlightened that CEO's are actually worth much more today relative to the factory worker, or we have a systematic concentration of wealth in this country into a select few. It's not just a moral argument as the author mentioned, the consequences are very real. In comparison to other industrialized nations, the income disparity has grown dramatically here in the U.S. and it's not that Joe factory worker isn't doing as good of a job as before. It's that we've shifted to a value system which places higher value on the upper echelon in society. That's not simply rewarding the wealthy for creating wealth, that's elitism.

So...now that we know how you feel about overpaid CEO's...what do you think about clueless rap punks that blather on & on about stupid sh*t that matters zilch and NBA players with the IQ of a turnip that play kiddie games while pulling down mega millions? Care to enlighten us?

[Empress of Groovy 373]

So we either have become enlightened that CEO's are actually worth much more today relative to the factory worker, or we have a systematic concentration of wealth in this country into a select few. It's not just a moral argument as the author mentioned, the consequences are very real. In comparison to other industrialized nations, the income disparity has grown dramatically here in the U.S. and it's not that Joe factory worker isn't doing as good of a job as before. It's that we've shifted to a value system which places higher value on the upper echelon in society. That's not simply rewarding the wealthy for creating wealth, that's elitism.

So...now that we know how you feel about overpaid CEO's...what do you think about clueless rap punks that blather on & on about stupid sh*t that matters zilch and NBA players with the IQ of a turnip that play kiddie games while pulling down mega millions? Care to enlighten us?

I don't think that's a valid comparison, pee jay. People have been complaning about athlete salaries for 25 years, but fans continue to pay for tickets, watch games on TV, and buy tons of merchandise. I'm guessing that you're not a gangsta rap fan, but a lot of people are, and they buy lots of concert tickets, CDs, and related merchandise. How much athletes and entertainers are paid is based on pretty standard criteria. CEO and other executive salaries, however, seem to have a different, murky formula and a pretty shaky connection with performance and objectives in some high-profile cases.

I do find it curious that a lot of people just shrug their shoulders about this and more or less accept it as a by-product of competitive industry. A sense of fairness (which I realize is subjective) is completely obscured by the notion that the marketplace, which also determines compensation, regulates itself, and that if CEOs weren't worth that much, they wouldn't be making that much. There is increasing transparency, at least in theory, regarding how executive compensation is determined. I'm guessing that there will be even more scrutiny now.

Edited October 20, 2008 by Big Agnes!

[peejay 327]

So we either have become enlightened that CEO's are actually worth much more today relative to the factory worker, or we have a systematic concentration of wealth in this country into a select few. It's not just a moral argument as the author mentioned, the consequences are very real. In comparison to other industrialized nations, the income disparity has grown dramatically here in the U.S. and it's not that Joe factory worker isn't doing as good of a job as before. It's that we've shifted to a value system which places higher value on the upper echelon in society. That's not simply rewarding the wealthy for creating wealth, that's elitism.

So...now that we know how you feel about overpaid CEO's...what do you think about clueless rap punks that blather on & on about stupid sh*t that matters zilch and NBA players with the IQ of a turnip that play kiddie games while pulling down mega millions? Care to enlighten us?

I don't think that's a valid comparison, pee jay. People have been complaning about athlete salaries for 25 years, but fans continue to pay for tickets, watch games on TV, and buy tons of merchandise. I'm guessing that you're not a gangsta rap fan, but a lot of people are, and they buy lots of concert tickets, CDs, and related merchandise. How much athletes and entertainers are paid is based on pretty standard criteria. CEO and other executive salaries, however, seem to have a different, murky formula and a pretty shaky connection with performance and objectives in some high-profile cases.

I do find it curious that a lot of people just shrug their shoulders about this and more or less accept it as a by-product of competitive industry. A sense of fairness (which I realize is subjective) is completely obscured by the notion that the marketplace, which also determines compensation, regulates itself, and that if CEOs weren't worth that much, they wouldn't be making that much. There is increasing transparency, at least in theory, regarding how executive compensation is determined. I'm guessing that there will be even more scrutiny now.

I never said that I bought into the notion that these CEO's, CFO's, and the boards of directors are worth the compensation they get. After all, most of us in the USA are not guaranteed a pension and invest in stocks through our 401K plans at work. The question for me is whether we are getting what we pay for when these guys get these huge packages and perks to run these companies for the shareholders. Often times I think not and this has become the standard in industry. I'm not so sure government can dictate salaries by some formula either in a capitalistic economy. It would be interesting to see congress legislate salaries in the private sector. I think it better the shareholders should have the tools and mechanisms to be able to do so before government.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

So we either have become enlightened that CEO's are actually worth much more today relative to the factory worker, or we have a systematic concentration of wealth in this country into a select few. It's not just a moral argument as the author mentioned, the consequences are very real. In comparison to other industrialized nations, the income disparity has grown dramatically here in the U.S. and it's not that Joe factory worker isn't doing as good of a job as before. It's that we've shifted to a value system which places higher value on the upper echelon in society. That's not simply rewarding the wealthy for creating wealth, that's elitism.

So...now that we know how you feel about overpaid CEO's...what do you think about clueless rap punks that blather on & on about stupid sh*t that matters zilch and NBA players with the IQ of a turnip that play kiddie games while pulling down mega millions? Care to enlighten us?

I don't think that's a valid comparison, pee jay. People have been complaning about athlete salaries for 25 years, but fans continue to pay for tickets, watch games on TV, and buy tons of merchandise. I'm guessing that you're not a gangsta rap fan, but a lot of people are, and they buy lots of concert tickets, CDs, and related merchandise. How much athletes and entertainers are paid is based on pretty standard criteria. CEO and other executive salaries, however, seem to have a different, murky formula and a pretty shaky connection with performance and objectives in some high-profile cases.

I do find it curious that a lot of people just shrug their shoulders about this and more or less accept it as a by-product of competitive industry. A sense of fairness (which I realize is subjective) is completely obscured by the notion that the marketplace, which also determines compensation, regulates itself, and that if CEOs weren't worth that much, they wouldn't be making that much. There is increasing transparency, at least in theory, regarding how executive compensation is determined. I'm guessing that there will be even more scrutiny now.

I never said that I bought into the notion that these CEO's, CFO's, and the boards of directors are worth the compensation they get. After all, most of us in the USA are not guaranteed a pension and invest in stocks through our 401K plans at work. The question for me is whether we are getting what we pay for when these guys get these huge packages and perks to run these companies for the shareholders. Often times I think not and this has become the standard in industry. I'm not so sure government can dictate salaries by some formula either in a capitalistic economy. It would be interesting to see congress legislate salaries in the private sector. I think it better the shareholders should have the tools and mechanisms to be able to do so before government.

I agree that I don't think the government can directly control CEO's salaries, but it can implement a tax policy that encourages spreading the wealth among all it's employees in the form of salary increases and penalizing through taxes, companies who a disproportionate amount to the top tier, particularly when the bottom tier struggle just to make ends meet.

[IAMX 3,055]

So we either have become enlightened that CEO's are actually worth much more today relative to the factory worker, or we have a systematic concentration of wealth in this country into a select few. It's not just a moral argument as the author mentioned, the consequences are very real. In comparison to other industrialized nations, the income disparity has grown dramatically here in the U.S. and it's not that Joe factory worker isn't doing as good of a job as before. It's that we've shifted to a value system which places higher value on the upper echelon in society. That's not simply rewarding the wealthy for creating wealth, that's elitism.

So...now that we know how you feel about overpaid CEO's...what do you think about clueless rap punks that blather on & on about stupid sh*t that matters zilch and NBA players with the IQ of a turnip that play kiddie games while pulling down mega millions? Care to enlighten us?

I don't think that's a valid comparison, pee jay. People have been complaning about athlete salaries for 25 years, but fans continue to pay for tickets, watch games on TV, and buy tons of merchandise. I'm guessing that you're not a gangsta rap fan, but a lot of people are, and they buy lots of concert tickets, CDs, and related merchandise. How much athletes and entertainers are paid is based on pretty standard criteria. CEO and other executive salaries, however, seem to have a different, murky formula and a pretty shaky connection with performance and objectives in some high-profile cases.

I do find it curious that a lot of people just shrug their shoulders about this and more or less accept it as a by-product of competitive industry. A sense of fairness (which I realize is subjective) is completely obscured by the notion that the marketplace, which also determines compensation, regulates itself, and that if CEOs weren't worth that much, they wouldn't be making that much. There is increasing transparency, at least in theory, regarding how executive compensation is determined. I'm guessing that there will be even more scrutiny now.

I never said that I bought into the notion that these CEO's, CFO's, and the boards of directors are worth the compensation they get. After all, most of us in the USA are not guaranteed a pension and invest in stocks through our 401K plans at work. The question for me is whether we are getting what we pay for when these guys get these huge packages and perks to run these companies for the shareholders. Often times I think not and this has become the standard in industry. I'm not so sure government can dictate salaries by some formula either in a capitalistic economy. It would be interesting to see congress legislate salaries in the private sector. I think it better the shareholders should have the tools and mechanisms to be able to do so before government.

We've allowed this test dummy philosophy to happen already with CEOs and shareholders. It's very clear they're going to keep taking these sweetheart packages at the cost to the business, and more importantly than anything else, the people. It's time for the government to intervene.

Would be nice for someone to, once and for all, put an end to the notion that what's good for the business is good for the country. What's good for the people is good for the country, and this does not represent what is good for the people, paying out the ### in taxes for others to go on golfing trips and earn millions for doing a sh!tty job.

Edited October 20, 2008 by SRVT

[peejay 327]

So we either have become enlightened that CEO's are actually worth much more today relative to the factory worker, or we have a systematic concentration of wealth in this country into a select few. It's not just a moral argument as the author mentioned, the consequences are very real. In comparison to other industrialized nations, the income disparity has grown dramatically here in the U.S. and it's not that Joe factory worker isn't doing as good of a job as before. It's that we've shifted to a value system which places higher value on the upper echelon in society. That's not simply rewarding the wealthy for creating wealth, that's elitism.

So...now that we know how you feel about overpaid CEO's...what do you think about clueless rap punks that blather on & on about stupid sh*t that matters zilch and NBA players with the IQ of a turnip that play kiddie games while pulling down mega millions? Care to enlighten us?

I don't think that's a valid comparison, pee jay. People have been complaning about athlete salaries for 25 years, but fans continue to pay for tickets, watch games on TV, and buy tons of merchandise. I'm guessing that you're not a gangsta rap fan, but a lot of people are, and they buy lots of concert tickets, CDs, and related merchandise. How much athletes and entertainers are paid is based on pretty standard criteria. CEO and other executive salaries, however, seem to have a different, murky formula and a pretty shaky connection with performance and objectives in some high-profile cases.

I do find it curious that a lot of people just shrug their shoulders about this and more or less accept it as a by-product of competitive industry. A sense of fairness (which I realize is subjective) is completely obscured by the notion that the marketplace, which also determines compensation, regulates itself, and that if CEOs weren't worth that much, they wouldn't be making that much. There is increasing transparency, at least in theory, regarding how executive compensation is determined. I'm guessing that there will be even more scrutiny now.

I never said that I bought into the notion that these CEO's, CFO's, and the boards of directors are worth the compensation they get. After all, most of us in the USA are not guaranteed a pension and invest in stocks through our 401K plans at work. The question for me is whether we are getting what we pay for when these guys get these huge packages and perks to run these companies for the shareholders. Often times I think not and this has become the standard in industry. I'm not so sure government can dictate salaries by some formula either in a capitalistic economy. It would be interesting to see congress legislate salaries in the private sector. I think it better the shareholders should have the tools and mechanisms to be able to do so before government.

I agree that I don't think the government can directly control CEO's salaries, but it can implement a tax policy that encourages spreading the wealth among all it's employees in the form of salary increases and penalizing through taxes, companies who a disproportionate amount to the top tier, particularly when the bottom tier struggle just to make ends meet.

Labor is influenced by supply and demand. Flooding the USA with cheap foreign labor skews this dynamic in our society today. Unions didn't really get a good hold in the USA until the flood at the beginning of the 20th century was drastically cut back to a trickle. But guys like you never will admit what worked in the past is still relevant today when it conflicts the many other peripheral agendas you have up your sleeve.

In any event, I'm not so sure another government redistribution of wealth tax scheme is any kind of answer.

Edited October 20, 2008 by peejay

[mawilson 2,133]

What's good for the people is good for the country, and this does not represent what is good for the people, paying out the ### in taxes for others to go on golfing trips and earn millions for doing a sh!tty job.

What about earning millions for doing a good job?

[HAL 9000 96]

How is the concentration of wealth not relativism? You make it sound as if wealth is created in a vacuum.

Why is it surprising that the rich get richer faster than the poor get richer?

The rich have more money to invest and can employ professional services to help them invest that money.

The poor have limited resources and have to rely on their own expertise in making investment decisions.

It's easier to turn $1 million into $10 million than it is to turn $10,000 into $100,000.

Totally true- unfortunately, current economics states that while that $1 million is turning into $10 million, those anywhere close to $10,000 are seeing it turn into $10.

[HAL 9000 96]

So we either have become enlightened that CEO's are actually worth much more today relative to the factory worker, or we have a systematic concentration of wealth in this country into a select few. It's not just a moral argument as the author mentioned, the consequences are very real. In comparison to other industrialized nations, the income disparity has grown dramatically here in the U.S. and it's not that Joe factory worker isn't doing as good of a job as before. It's that we've shifted to a value system which places higher value on the upper echelon in society. That's not simply rewarding the wealthy for creating wealth, that's elitism.

So...now that we know how you feel about overpaid CEO's...what do you think about clueless rap punks that blather on & on about stupid sh*t that matters zilch and NBA players with the IQ of a turnip that play kiddie games while pulling down mega millions? Care to enlighten us?

I don't think that's a valid comparison, pee jay. People have been complaning about athlete salaries for 25 years, but fans continue to pay for tickets, watch games on TV, and buy tons of merchandise. I'm guessing that you're not a gangsta rap fan, but a lot of people are, and they buy lots of concert tickets, CDs, and related merchandise. How much athletes and entertainers are paid is based on pretty standard criteria. CEO and other executive salaries, however, seem to have a different, murky formula and a pretty shaky connection with performance and objectives in some high-profile cases.

I do find it curious that a lot of people just shrug their shoulders about this and more or less accept it as a by-product of competitive industry. A sense of fairness (which I realize is subjective) is completely obscured by the notion that the marketplace, which also determines compensation, regulates itself, and that if CEOs weren't worth that much, they wouldn't be making that much. There is increasing transparency, at least in theory, regarding how executive compensation is determined. I'm guessing that there will be even more scrutiny now.

It is a horrible comparison. Yes, people pay the price to enter these events, merchandise, etc.

I suppose under that logic people should be expected to also pay the full cost of museums, education, and the like. Quite a banner for social progress, don't you think?

[HAL 9000 96]

So we either have become enlightened that CEO's are actually worth much more today relative to the factory worker, or we have a systematic concentration of wealth in this country into a select few. It's not just a moral argument as the author mentioned, the consequences are very real. In comparison to other industrialized nations, the income disparity has grown dramatically here in the U.S. and it's not that Joe factory worker isn't doing as good of a job as before. It's that we've shifted to a value system which places higher value on the upper echelon in society. That's not simply rewarding the wealthy for creating wealth, that's elitism.

So...now that we know how you feel about overpaid CEO's...what do you think about clueless rap punks that blather on & on about stupid sh*t that matters zilch and NBA players with the IQ of a turnip that play kiddie games while pulling down mega millions? Care to enlighten us?

I don't think that's a valid comparison, pee jay. People have been complaning about athlete salaries for 25 years, but fans continue to pay for tickets, watch games on TV, and buy tons of merchandise. I'm guessing that you're not a gangsta rap fan, but a lot of people are, and they buy lots of concert tickets, CDs, and related merchandise. How much athletes and entertainers are paid is based on pretty standard criteria. CEO and other executive salaries, however, seem to have a different, murky formula and a pretty shaky connection with performance and objectives in some high-profile cases.

I do find it curious that a lot of people just shrug their shoulders about this and more or less accept it as a by-product of competitive industry. A sense of fairness (which I realize is subjective) is completely obscured by the notion that the marketplace, which also determines compensation, regulates itself, and that if CEOs weren't worth that much, they wouldn't be making that much. There is increasing transparency, at least in theory, regarding how executive compensation is determined. I'm guessing that there will be even more scrutiny now.

I never said that I bought into the notion that these CEO's, CFO's, and the boards of directors are worth the compensation they get. After all, most of us in the USA are not guaranteed a pension and invest in stocks through our 401K plans at work. The question for me is whether we are getting what we pay for when these guys get these huge packages and perks to run these companies for the shareholders. Often times I think not and this has become the standard in industry. I'm not so sure government can dictate salaries by some formula either in a capitalistic economy. It would be interesting to see congress legislate salaries in the private sector. I think it better the shareholders should have the tools and mechanisms to be able to do so before government.

I agree that I don't think the government can directly control CEO's salaries, but it can implement a tax policy that encourages spreading the wealth among all it's employees in the form of salary increases and penalizing through taxes, companies who a disproportionate amount to the top tier, particularly when the bottom tier struggle just to make ends meet.

I don't know if it should come in form of taxes. People get goosebumps around that silly word. Perhaps if they want to upregulate their salaries, then perhaps the governmental part should come in obligating them to contribute to their nation/state/community in some other tangible, economical fashion with measurable benchmarks for progress. Something along those lines.

[mawilson 2,133]

How is the concentration of wealth not relativism? You make it sound as if wealth is created in a vacuum.

Why is it surprising that the rich get richer faster than the poor get richer?

The rich have more money to invest and can employ professional services to help them invest that money.

The poor have limited resources and have to rely on their own expertise in making investment decisions.

It's easier to turn $1 million into $10 million than it is to turn $10,000 into $100,000.

Totally true- unfortunately, current economics states that while that $1 million is turning into $10 million, those anywhere close to $10,000 are seeing it turn into $10.

Well there's only so much money to go around. With the retirement accounts of ordinary

Americans losing $2.4 trillion in the past 15 months, that money had to go somewhere.

It ended up in the trading accounts of various hedge funds betting on falling stock prices.

What can I say, the stock market is a big scam - a clever mechanism for the big boys to profit

at the expense of the ordinary small fry investor.