McCain Acorn Fears Overblown: Vote Tampering and Fraud Sees Seven or Eight Convictions a Year, Says Expert

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I've posted a number of articles and videos about problems with ACORN from voter fraud (and, yes, fake registrations are considered to be voter fraud) to embezzlement of taxpayer money.

The implication is false and continuing to insinuate any wrongdoing by ACORN, the organization is intellectually dishonest. A Macy employee who commits fraud is no more an indictment of Macy's than any other company where an employee breaks the law, unless that employee was given orders from the company itself to commit fraud. Those who continue to implicate any wrongdoing by ACORN know exactly what they are doing and it's completely dishonest.

The number of newly registered voters this election cycle is a record - 1.3 million. Turning this into a partisan issue is sad for democracy. We should all hope that every eligible citizen is registered and votes. Heck, I'd even consider making it a law that you must be registered and you must vote.

It undermines our democracy when such a small percentage of eligible citizens actually vote.

Edited October 19, 2008 by Jabberwocky

[Sofiyya 1,687]

It's interesting how easily and smoothly you adopt a "woe is me, you can't see what I see" attitude when it suits you. You can't see what I see, and I'm not alone in seeing it. If you think my mission in life is to convince you about the perils of ACORN, you are mistaken. I'm from a culture that uses shame and manipulation to motivate people to do things, so I'm not moved by your taunts and insults. Since you are just one in an audience of many, I will continue to do as I see fit in hopes that rational people will be convinced to look past the desparate ACORN postings Steven repeatedly makes as if his life depends on it.

You try to wiggle out of posting proof by claiming you don't have that burden although you want people to take your position. You must like to get the credit without doing any heavy lifting.

Yawwwwnnnn.

My position is if you want to make a claim, back it up. You seem to have a problem with this, and, you, yourself, "work with the law every day". How come you're so terrible at playing by the law's rules? It's very simple. I wouldn't have anything to argue with you about if you could show how people are voting using fake names and determining the outcome of an election, as the crying goes on about, like it's some election apocalypse to get Obama in the WH. I'd gladly join your side and attack this if you could even show this is happening. I have no vested interest in defending Obama.

However, you can't, and your only defense is attacking me, which really means 3 things.

1. Your argument sucks.

2. Attacking people does not give credence to your argument or make your assertion any more valid.

3. I'm going to keep pestering you about it until you can come up with the proof, until the election. No sense in letting you get away with claims you can't back up.

You want to vote without the responsibility of the vote.

Oh how little we know. I've been attacked by "liberals" or "Democrats" for helping Republicans win by not voting Democrat. Not just once, either. So evidently I get responsibility no matter how I vote. Too bad you can't see it. I experience it.

[villaspurs 65]

Obama paid ACORN $800, 000 plus to register voters for his campaign. He is not separate from ACORN.

Actually, Obama paid an organization affiliated with ACORN $800K for a get-out-the-vote effort. It had nothing to do with voter registration.

And to your earlier assertion, voter fraud is considered completely separately from registration fraud. They are treated entirely separately.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

What's intellectually dishonest and downright intellectually lazy is for you to continue to post from liberal media sources who are known to be in the bag for Obama and consider them to be honest information brokers. ACORn knows what it is doing, and if it wanted the fraud to stop, it would stop. As long as it has people who will excse them, it won't have to stop. Fortunately, it may have to stop soon.

There is little in the way to discourage voting by any legitmate, qualified citizen. To waste taxpayer money on groups like ACORN to do the obvious is asking for trouble. It undermines ur democracy when idiots vote, but there is nothing in the law to stop them from doing so.

I've posted a number of articles and videos about problems with ACORN from voter fraud (and, yes, fake registrations are considered to be voter fraud) to embezzlement of taxpayer money.

The implication is false and continuing to insinuate any wrongdoing by ACORN, the organization is intellectually dishonest. A Macy employee who commits fraud is no more an indictment of Macy's than any other company where an employee breaks the law, unless that employee was given orders from the company itself to commit fraud. Those who continue to implicate any wrongdoing by ACORN know exactly what they are doing and it's completely dishonest.

The number of newly registered voters this election cycle is a record - 1.3 million. Turning this into a partisan issue is sad for democracy. We should all hope that every eligible citizen is registered and votes. Heck, I'd even consider making it a law that you must be registered and you must vote.

It undermines our democracy when such a small percentage of eligible citizens actually vote.

[villaspurs 65]

What's intellectually dishonest and downright intellectually lazy is for you to continue to post from liberal media sources who are known to be in the bag for Obama and consider them to be honest information brokers. ACORn knows what it is doing, and if it wanted the fraud to stop, it would stop. As long as it has people who will excse them, it won't have to stop. Fortunately, it may have to stop soon.

There is little in the way to discourage voting by any legitmate, qualified citizen. To waste taxpayer money on groups like ACORN to do the obvious is asking for trouble. It undermines ur democracy when idiots vote, but there is nothing in the law to stop them from doing so.

I've posted a number of articles and videos about problems with ACORN from voter fraud (and, yes, fake registrations are considered to be voter fraud) to embezzlement of taxpayer money.

The implication is false and continuing to insinuate any wrongdoing by ACORN, the organization is intellectually dishonest. A Macy employee who commits fraud is no more an indictment of Macy's than any other company where an employee breaks the law, unless that employee was given orders from the company itself to commit fraud. Those who continue to implicate any wrongdoing by ACORN know exactly what they are doing and it's completely dishonest.

The number of newly registered voters this election cycle is a record - 1.3 million. Turning this into a partisan issue is sad for democracy. We should all hope that every eligible citizen is registered and votes. Heck, I'd even consider making it a law that you must be registered and you must vote.

It undermines our democracy when such a small percentage of eligible citizens actually vote.

How do you account for Republican (illegal) vote caging efforts?

[IAMX 3,055]

It's interesting how easily and smoothly you adopt a "woe is me, you can't see what I see" attitude when it suits you. You can't see what I see, and I'm not alone in seeing it. If you think my mission in life is to convince you about the perils of ACORN, you are mistaken. I'm from a culture that uses shame and manipulation to motivate people to do things, so I'm not moved by your taunts and insults. Since you are just one in an audience of many, I will continue to do as I see fit in hopes that rational people will be convinced to look past the desparate ACORN postings Steven repeatedly makes as if his life depends on it.

That's a very interesting story. However, I am well aware of his bias in his topics, but this still has nothing to do with ACORN, Barack Obama, or how voter fraud would help people vote with fake names and him win the election, or even any politician winning, based upon this.

The only thing that's been shown so far is people have managed to try to register fake voters. And I don't see anyone here claiming they should be given a pass. If they are, they're no better. But all the fuss is about Barack Obama and election implications of voter fraud. What would a thrown election based upon voter fraud be if people weren't fraudulently voting, as in, the contention of Mickey Mouse voting, which conservative op-eds and posters here want to throw up about being registered to vote, but don't want to actually show that Mickey ever managed to vote, and how he would.

You'd think with the spotlight on voter fraud as much as it is, especially of recent, someone could show fake people voting and it having any play in an election. No one is. The only thing that IS being shown, is people who deserve to have their vote count are having their names tossed out, either because of a technicality (i.e. a state official inputting information typing it wrong), or because of Secretary of States in charge of elections targeting non felons as felons, namely disproportionate amounts of African Americans, unsurprisingly.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Actually, you have issues, VW. I asked a fairly simple question (should be even simpler for an alleged legal whiz like yourself): What has this organization - ACORN - ever been accused or found guilty of? And there isn't a single charge you can come up with. Not one. Which means that your accusations have no substance. None at all. They're opinion and hit pieces. That's all they are. And here you're trying to sell them as factual scandals. There's no fact supporting your drivel. So, give it up already. It's smoke and mirrors. Nothing but smoke and mirrors.

One of your issues is that you can't be honest with yourself. You have taken hold of this issue and absolutely refuse to see the problems. You make excuses for everything. One thing I know is that an organization with political ties and favor is rarely bought down in one fell swoop. It's a chipping away over time that does the job.

Thanks for confirming yet again that smoke and mirrors and cheap propaganda is all you have to offer. Since you lack any substance to back up your ridiculous accusations in regards to ACORN, I'd say that we're done here.

The OP is propaganda. There has yet to be anything posted from Steven that isn't. You just happen to prefer fantasy to reality. Not everyone does.

As I said, you have nothing of substance to back up your accusations against this organization. Your accusations are based on propaganda or - as you would have it - fantasy. No wiggling on your part is going to change that fact.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

What's intellectually dishonest and downright intellectually lazy is for you to continue to post from liberal media sources who are known to be in the bag for Obama and consider them to be honest information brokers. ACORn knows what it is doing, and if it wanted the fraud to stop, it would stop. As long as it has people who will excse them, it won't have to stop. Fortunately, it may have to stop soon.

There is little in the way to discourage voting by any legitmate, qualified citizen. To waste taxpayer money on groups like ACORN to do the obvious is asking for trouble. It undermines ur democracy when idiots vote, but there is nothing in the law to stop them from doing so.

Facts don't owe their allegiance to any particular ideology - they stand on their own. If you wish to refute those facts, then again, I challenge you to do so. The organization known as ACORN, has never committed voter fraud or voter registration fraud. They have never been indicted for doing so, and given that in this country, one is innocent until proven guilty - it's time to drop the intellectual dishonesty and acknowledge ACORN's innocence of doing nothing illegal. Continuing down this path of dishonest smearing of ACORN amounts to nothing more than an attempt to distract the American people from the real issues being fought in this election.

[rebeccajo 14]

The facts are there. I challenge you or anyone to explain exactly what ACORN has done that is illegal.

You're in for more copy and paste jobs of opinion pieces and hit-jobs from newsmax, my friend.

Yep. For some, insinuation, hearsay and suspicion is good enough to label someone or a group, criminal. And given that this is during an election year (a huge one at that), such intellectual dishonesty is what is really undermining our democracy.

Just because you don't believe they have a problem or two, Steven, is not reason enough to agree with you. As you can find articles defending ACORN, there are those to be found opposing them. You have to defend them coz your man is knee deep in with them. But, I'm a longtime political junkie and old enough to remember their genesis. You can try to sell this to the malable, angry and naive, but I won't be buying what you're selling.

And then what are you gonna do with the rest of us, VW?

Believe it or not, there are those of us out there who DO question what ACORN has done yet don't have our panties all bunched about it undermining our election.

You see, some of us poor teet suckers have actually worked in the system and we understand how the polls are run. We've groveled with our fellow teet-suckers at the Clerk's office, and we understand that improper registratants won't even be offered a ballot on election day.

Not all the time we spend at the trough creates ignorant masses, you know.

[rebeccajo 14]

I'm not a lawyer and probably would not do well as a prosecutor.

Not all lawyers are prosecutors.

[AnaAndDaniel 0]

The facts are there. I challenge you or anyone to explain exactly what ACORN has done that is illegal.

You're in for more copy and paste jobs of opinion pieces and hit-jobs from newsmax, my friend.

Yep. For some, insinuation, hearsay and suspicion is good enough to label someone or a group, criminal. And given that this is during an election year (a huge one at that), such intellectual dishonesty is what is really undermining our democracy.

Just because you don't believe they have a problem or two, Steven, is not reason enough to agree with you. As you can find articles defending ACORN, there are those to be found opposing them. You have to defend them coz your man is knee deep in with them. But, I'm a longtime political junkie and old enough to remember their genesis. You can try to sell this to the malable, angry and naive, but I won't be buying what you're selling.

And then what are you gonna do with the rest of us, VW?

Believe it or not, there are those of us out there who DO question what ACORN has done yet don't have our panties all bunched about it undermining our election.

You see, some of us poor teet suckers have actually worked in the system and we understand how the polls are run. We've groveled with our fellow teet-suckers at the Clerk's office, and we understand that improper registratants won't even be offered a ballot on election day.

Not all the time we spend at the trough creates ignorant masses, you know.

you tell her sister!

yeah, this acorn 'situation' is way overblown. any fraudulent activity should be investigated on a case by case basis. but it is usually some lone knuckle heads.

Daniel

[rebeccajo 14]

Three plead guilty in fake voter scheme

By Keith Ervin

Seattle Times staff reporter

Three of seven defendants in the biggest voter-registration fraud scheme in Washington history have pleaded guilty and one has been sentenced, prosecutors said Monday.

The defendants were all temporary employees of ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, when they allegedly filled out and submitted more than 1,800 fictitious voter-registration cards during a 2006 registration drive in King and Pierce counties.

No votes were cast in the names of the phony voters. Prosecutors said the defendants committed fraud in order to keep their jobs without actually registering voters.

King County election workers brought the fraud to the attention of prosecutors last October, after noticing that signatures on many registration forms looked like they had been written by the same person.

Ryan Olson, 28, of Needles, Calif., was the first to be sentenced. He pleaded guilty Thursday in King County Superior Court to two counts of providing false information on a voter-registration application, a felony. Court Commissioner Kenneth Comstock sentenced him to 30 days in jail or in electronic home detention, the sentence recommended by prosecutors, said Dan Donohoe, spokesman for the King County Prosecutor's Office.

Tina Johnson, 24, of Tacoma, and Jayson Woods, 20, of Elkridge, Md., also have pleaded guilty to eight counts each of registration fraud. Donohoe said prosecutors have recommended 120 days of jail for each of them using the same formula applied to Olson: 15 days for each count.

Brianna Debwa, 35, of Tacoma; Robert Greene, 56, of Tacoma; and Clifton Mitchell, 45, of Lakewood, Pierce County, have pleaded not guilty and are scheduled to appear in court in November. Kendra Thill, 19, no known address, was charged with voter fraud and is wanted for failure to appear in court.

Keith Ervin: 206-464-2105 or kervin@seattletimes.com

Here's one reason you're not a lawyer.

You missed the extant point entirely - "Three plead guilty in fake voter scheme".

Three individuals. Not an organization. Individuals.

Learning to READ is something they do in law school. To sift the minutia from manure.

I think we need a shovel.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Three plead guilty in fake voter scheme

By Keith Ervin

Seattle Times staff reporter

Three of seven defendants in the biggest voter-registration fraud scheme in Washington history have pleaded guilty and one has been sentenced, prosecutors said Monday.

The defendants were all temporary employees of ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, when they allegedly filled out and submitted more than 1,800 fictitious voter-registration cards during a 2006 registration drive in King and Pierce counties.

No votes were cast in the names of the phony voters. Prosecutors said the defendants committed fraud in order to keep their jobs without actually registering voters.

King County election workers brought the fraud to the attention of prosecutors last October, after noticing that signatures on many registration forms looked like they had been written by the same person.

Ryan Olson, 28, of Needles, Calif., was the first to be sentenced. He pleaded guilty Thursday in King County Superior Court to two counts of providing false information on a voter-registration application, a felony. Court Commissioner Kenneth Comstock sentenced him to 30 days in jail or in electronic home detention, the sentence recommended by prosecutors, said Dan Donohoe, spokesman for the King County Prosecutor's Office.

Tina Johnson, 24, of Tacoma, and Jayson Woods, 20, of Elkridge, Md., also have pleaded guilty to eight counts each of registration fraud. Donohoe said prosecutors have recommended 120 days of jail for each of them using the same formula applied to Olson: 15 days for each count.

Brianna Debwa, 35, of Tacoma; Robert Greene, 56, of Tacoma; and Clifton Mitchell, 45, of Lakewood, Pierce County, have pleaded not guilty and are scheduled to appear in court in November. Kendra Thill, 19, no known address, was charged with voter fraud and is wanted for failure to appear in court.

Keith Ervin: 206-464-2105 or kervin@seattletimes.com

Here's one reason you're not a lawyer.

You missed the extant point entirely - "Three plead guilty in fake voter scheme".

Three individuals. Not an organization. Individuals.

Learning to READ is something they do in law school. To sift the minutia from manure.

I think we need a shovel.