McCain: Middle-Class Tax Cut is 'Welfare'

[IAMX 3,055]

Dude shut up and go market somewhere in your neon.

Only if you nuke some black gangsters.

Since you didn't like the first solution, maybe we can come up with another.

I think Fry's (if you have one in your area) makes some nice armchairs which have microfibers. I have a microfiber couch and they're kinda annoying with the static problems (be very weary with any electronic devices as static can destroy some), but I'd just advise trying one out, if you can actually be proactive about this one and drag your ### to the store. Then you can maybe comfortably nuke them from the forums in your new microfiber armchair. Ooh, or maybe from that other forum I hear you mention all the time. Maybe you get bonus internet points for that one.

What is a "fair share" of tax? How do you avoid diminishing incentive in your Quixotic quest to make everyone equal? How do you make everyone want to be equal anyway? Obama wants to force it on us. Good luck with that; we're not a kingdom yet.

I've always been for a flat percentage-based tax as the only really viable alternative given the system won't change to what I want it as.

[Heracles 417]

AUS INCOME TAX RATES

Tax Rate | Income

Nil $0 – $6,000

12.3% $6,001 – $34,000

22.5% $34,001 – $80,000

32% $80,001 – $180,000

45% Over $180,000

---------------

US Income Tax rates

Tax Rate | Income

10% $0 – $8,025

15% $8,026 – $32,550

25% $32,551 – $78,850

28% $78,851 – $164,550

33% $164,551 – $357,700

35% $357,701+

---------------

In terms of value for money I would say I get almost nothing here. Plus, we have ZERO state taxes in AUS.

In one way I can understand why you guys hate taxes so much because you get no value for what you pay. Roads falling apart. Infrastructure held together by string and built in the 60's or prior. Public services? good one

Edited October 19, 2008 by Aficionado

[Sofiyya 1,687]

What is a "fair share" of tax? How do you avoid diminishing incentive in your Quixotic quest to make everyone equal? How do you make everyone want to be equal anyway? Obama wants to force it on us. Good luck with that; we're not a kingdom yet.

VW the system works. Trust me. Before I came here I obviously lived in a welfare state and cheered on Americas nothing for the poor approach. But after coming here and now being here for nearly three years, I can say the policies here have failed. The country is falling down the ranks of most international standards. The poor are dirt poor and there are just so many ghettos, no go zones. I joke with these fools, like SVRT and six, that it is the inner city African Americans fault to rile the stupid up but I know these guys have little chance of getting on their feet without government assistance.

What Obama suggest, what I have heard, are sound principles which work overseas. Whereas the scare tactics are erroneous and based on fear or ulterior motives.

Lifting the poor up is a win win. It doesn't work is when you have to pay for 21,000,000 illegals. Hence why every single other welfare country refuses to pay for illegal immigrants and has a extremely strict immigration policy. With illegals, the system fails because no country in the world can afford to pay for so many people who generally live off the books.

What Obama is advocating is nothing new. In fact, it has bene done and failed in the past because, unlike what may be happening in Australia, many poor and workig class Americans believe they are entitled to government handouts. This is a deeply materialistic society that measures success and status, as you described, by what you have and the image you project. The majority of the people here who can't wait to get free money have no clue about how to begin to move to the uppoer class,how to manage their money or give up their credit-bought luxuries. This is a society that has long encouraged instant gratification, and that is what Obama is banking on. If anything he understands the psychology of the common American that is impatient and jealous with those who out earn them.

We don't speak of class here with any aplumb and rationality, for it is deeply linked to perceptions of race and superiority. We are not far from a history of slavery, white privilege, and divided regionalisms. Our children have been propagandized to believe that there should be no class strcture, that everyone should be equal in their ability to thrive. Yet, in reality, we are not equal in our ability to produce and innovate. Still, a softer version of the Marxist credo "From each according to his ability--to each according to his needs." lingers over that dream. We have never been a socialist society, so we romanticize it and allow ourselves to believe it is the salvo for what ails us. Obama takes advantage of that, to our detriment.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

No one should get a tax cut period and those earning over $250K should pay about 42%.

$251K is not a lot of money in NYC or LA, for example. Why would anyone do what it takes to be worth $251k if they can get over just fine taking free money from those who make that or more? Why would they live here if they have the choice to leave to a place that won't penalize them for their knowledge and productivity? How could a government philosophy of taking nearly half one's earnings to give to others create incentive to produce more, create more?

While this may be wonderful for those getting money, it sux for those who give it unwillingly.

[Heracles 417]

Since you didn't like the first solution, maybe we can come up with another.

I think Fry's (if you have one in your area) makes some nice armchairs which have microfibers. I have a microfiber couch and they're kinda annoying with the static problems (be very weary with any electronic devices as static can destroy some), but I'd just advise trying one out, if you can actually be proactive about this one and drag your ### to the store. Then you can maybe comfortably nuke them from the forums in your new microfiber armchair. Ooh, or maybe from that other forum I hear you mention all the time. Maybe you get bonus internet points for that one.

Wo wo wo 'dude' (you are in ca after all). First of all you have a liberal arts degree and work in marketing. So you don't need to be teaching a me, with a BA in Engineering from an ivy league college, about electronic devices.

Svrt, if you want to have a pissing contest I am more than happy to met up with you. Just PM me your details and I will organize a flight for you here. Business Class as well. Get you out of the Neon car..

Edited October 19, 2008 by Aficionado

[IAMX 3,055]

Since you didn't like the first solution, maybe we can come up with another.

I think Fry's (if you have one in your area) makes some nice armchairs which have microfibers. I have a microfiber couch and they're kinda annoying with the static problems (be very weary with any electronic devices as static can destroy some), but I'd just advise trying one out, if you can actually be proactive about this one and drag your ### to the store. Then you can maybe comfortably nuke them from the forums in your new microfiber armchair. Ooh, or maybe from that other forum I hear you mention all the time. Maybe you get bonus internet points for that one.

Wo wo wo 'dude' (you are in ca after all). First of all you have a liberal arts degree and work in marketing. So you don't need to be teaching a me, with a BA in Engineering from an ivy league college, about electronic devices.

Svrt, if you want to have a pissing contest I am more than happy to met up with you. Just PM me your details and I will organize a flight for you here. Business Class as well. Get you out of the Neon car..

What about all those black gangstas? I'm sure with your Ivy League education you could get your hands on a 767 and fly all of us out there with you and take care of your problems. Then you could nuke us altogether!

You armchair people crack me up.

Edited October 19, 2008 by SRVT

[SaadBell 0]

Aficionado-

Nice to see someone who gets it, we are on the same page

[IAMX 3,055]

Aficionado-

Nice to see someone who gets it

[IAMX 3,055]

What Obama suggest, what I have heard, are sound principles which work overseas. Whereas the scare tactics are erroneous and based on fear or ulterior motives.

Obama's suggestions also require a Congress to actually go through with it.

Unless Democrats can muster up 60 votes in the Senate, or gain 9 seats in this election, I don't see half his plans happening.

Edited October 19, 2008 by SRVT

[Heracles 417]

What Obama is advocating is nothing new. In fact, it has bene done and failed in the past because, unlike what may be happening in Australia, many poor and workig class Americans believe they are entitled to government handouts. This is a deeply materialistic society that measures success and status, as you described, by what you have and the image you project. The majority of the people here who can't wait to get free money have no clue about how to begin to move to the uppoer class,how to manage their money or give up their credit-bought luxuries. This is a society that has long encouraged instant gratification, and that is what Obama is banking on. If anything he understands the psychology of the common American that is impatient and jealous with those who out earn them.

We don't speak of class here with any aplumb and rationality, for it is deeply linked to perceptions of race and superiority. We are not far from a history of slavery, white privilege, and divided regionalisms. Our children have been propagandized to believe that there should be no class strcture, that everyone should be equal in their ability to thrive. Yet, in reality, we are not equal in our ability to produce and innovate. Still, a softer version of the Marxist credo "From each according to his ability--to each according to his needs." lingers over that dream. We have never been a socialist society, so we romanticize it and allow ourselves to believe it is the salvo for what ails us. Obama takes advantage of that, to our detriment.

I hear what you are saying and know that attitude is a huge part of America's problem. People can call me racist all they like but the reality is that people who come from a culture who has not been prosperous in 4,000 years, is not simply going to generate wealth overnight, or even in one generation for that matter. Or become doctors, engineers, scientist lawyers tomorrow. EG white trash. But at the same time doing nothing will never ever help the situation. The first step though comes in the form of attitude. They have to want to be a doctor, lawyer, skilled tradesman, legitimate business owner etc first. That is the most critical step and the first step. Without this you have nothing. This is where I disagree with clowns like SVRT, Six and Maviwaro who think this is not important and a pat on the head will do. Plus blaming history for their perils.

Hey Obama is a smart guy and I am not just saying that. I have been center right wing all of my life. Obama is not some you owe me liberal ghetto thug. I have attacked that guy since day one but as I got to know him, and see his point of view, I realized he understands the measures required to lift this country up. I respect anyone who rises when the odds are stacked against them. Those are the people I want to help.

Together we do better and that is fact. Divided we are conquered. How and why do you think my ancestors, the Greeks, failed. Bickering, jealousy and internal rivalry. This #### has to stop in America but unfortunately is only going to get worse, ie, Red vs Blue or Latinos vs apparently brown haters or Atheist vs Religious. Elitist vs rednecks. Especially when you have dooooouche bags like SVRT in this country.

[Heracles 417]

What about all those black gangstas? I'm sure with your Ivy League education you could get your hands on a 767 and fly all of us out there with you and take care of your problems. Then you could nuke us altogether!

You armchair people crack me up.

Coming from the guy who openly hates his family.

I hope your spouse knows your views because Greeks are quite religious. Our Orthodox beliefs withstood nearly 400 years of ottoman rule. My ancestors weren't picking cotton in some field or cookin some puuuumpkin piiiiie either. It was a case of covert or die. Follow our rule or die. Plus they tortured people free of charge.

But hold on

SVRT, a white guy, knows what the black man went through.. :rofl: :rofl: Driving his Neon that apparently gets 120,000 zillion MPG. Hey why don't you, like you suggested, chuck a SCSI HDD in that mate..

Edited October 19, 2008 by Aficionado

[IAMX 3,055]

Coming from the guy who openly hates his family.

Actually, southern family, mom's side. Only one of them has a degree. Ironically, she has nothing to do with the rest of them. Dad's side is incredibly wealthy. I can golf for free however much I like, have as much coffee as I like, get a free haircut, buy free books, eat free at a restaurant, spend free nights in a hotel. So evidently some people are making good decisions, others are not. And not just financially. Their entire life is marred with stupid choices. You and them have something in common, if your negativity is so much focused on blacks and gangsters, or those who rightfully criticize white people when necessary (mostly as a lesson of the past which evidently still hasn't been learned today) as much as they are.

I hope your spouse knows your views because Greeks are quite religious.

It's indeed why we refused to ever get married there. You marry by the church rules by oath. We marry by our rules by oath. Thankfully, our government at least allows that. And I mean no disrespect to Greece at all. Things are just better here in those circumstances.

SVRT, a white guy, knows what the black man went through.. :rofl: :rofl:

Evidently you have no idea what I grew up around.

Then again, you've spent 3 years here. I've spent a little more than 26. No surprise some idiot from elsewhere is suggesting I have no idea what people went through in my own country.

Wasn't it you who tried to tell me how the housing market is here in the Bay Area?

I hope no one ever makes a bet on your assumptions winning. They'd be as poor as those who bet on the housing markets surviving market fallout last year.

Edited October 19, 2008 by SRVT

[Heracles 417]

Then again, you've spent 3 years here. I've spent a little more than 26. No surprise some idiot from elsewhere is suggesting I have no idea what people went through in my own country.

Wasn't it you who tried to tell me how the housing market is here in the Bay Area?

I hope no one ever makes a bet on your assumptions winning. They'd be as poor as those who bet on the housing markets surviving market fallout last year.

Well my friends do live in Santa Monica.

You have not traveled much have you.. Do you think we could use a SCSI HDDs to propel planes??

Edited October 19, 2008 by Aficionado

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I hear what you are saying and know that attitude is a huge part of America's problem. People can call me racist all they like but the reality is that people who come from a culture who has not been prosperous in 4,000 years, is not simply going to generate wealth overnight, or even in one generation for that matter. Or become doctors, engineers, scientist lawyers tomorrow. EG white trash. But at the same time doing nothing will never ever help the situation. The first step though comes in the form of attitude. They have to want to be a doctor, lawyer, skilled tradesman, legitimate business owner etc first. That is the most critical step and the first step. Without this you have nothing. This is where I disagree with clowns like SVRT, Six and Maviwaro who think this is not important and a pat on the head will do. Plus blaming history for their perils.

Hey Obama is a smart guy and I am not just saying that. I have been center right wing all of my life. Obama is not some you owe me liberal ghetto thug. I have attacked that guy since day one but as I got to know him, and see his point of view, I realized he understands the measures required to lift this country up. I respect anyone who rises when the odds are stacked against them. Those are the people I want to help.

Together we do better and that is fact. Divided we are conquered. How and why do you think my ancestors, the Greeks, failed. Bickering, jealousy and internal rivalry. This #### has to stop in America but unfortunately is only going to get worse, ie, Red vs Blue or Latinos vs apparently brown haters or Atheist vs Religious. Elitist vs rednecks. Especially when you have dooooouche bags like SVRT in this country.

You are much kinder to Obama than I can be. He is all style and no real substance. His platform is based in elements of elitist opportunism, economic victimization, class envy, and depiciting the US as a failed experiment. If he gets into office, he will fail as Jimmy Carter did, and last only one miserable term. He understands nothing that will move this country forward, but understands enough to appeal to the shortsighted and impatient among us.

I have seen and heard him before. He is more about the past than he is about the future. Yet, convincing desparate, bitter people that getting something for nothing is bad for them is nearly impossible, for this a nation that is no longer used to earning what it has, but too into bailouts and easy money. Just as our citizens have gouged on credit, so has our leadership to the point where our creditors, like the communist Chinese, could bring it all down around us, if they like.

I'll be damned if I will fall in line to allow this underperforming government to share my wealth against my will. With an electorate that is too flumoxed to demand better, and so easily bribed that it unquestioningly accepts socialism as the means to lift the nation up, those who aren't buying it have plenty of warning of the disaster to come.

[IAMX 3,055]

Then again, you've spent 3 years here. I've spent a little more than 26. No surprise some idiot from elsewhere is suggesting I have no idea what people went through in my own country.

Wasn't it you who tried to tell me how the housing market is here in the Bay Area?

I hope no one ever makes a bet on your assumptions winning. They'd be as poor as those who bet on the housing markets surviving market fallout last year.

Well my friends do live in Santa Monica.

You have not traveled much have you.. Do you think we could use a SCSI HDDs to propel planes??

"My friends live in Santa Monica".

There you have it, folks.