YESTERDAY MY HONEY SHOULD ARRIVE, but he did not!!!!

[chiquita 0]

Even my husband, who's been taking english classes since first grade and is almost fluent, was flustered at the POE and got hopelessly lost in the Chicago airport. Immigration is a stressful event, and I can't imagine what it would be like for me if the officers in Egypt wanted me to sign forms in arabic when I'm not fluent. I know I'd be flustered.

So GH's husband mentions their married. Ok, said and done, he's sent back home. But what could have been avoided on the POE officers' part was the 5 year ban, if they had allowed him to call his wife and/or get a translator and/or have time to sit down and read the documents he was signing. That could have alleviated the 5 year ban issue.

Absolutely!!!!!!!!!

A government employee needs to understand they are dealing with people who don't have a full grasp of immigration issues ...

Wha? If he is coming to this country, it seems to me that it is indeed HIS responsibility to be in FULL compliance with American law and policy.

A few moments taken to clarify would be so helpful to all incoming immigrants. If he isnsited he was married, then i would agree it was his error. But it sounds like the POE officer just didn't care to take the time. This is what I find upsetting.

Again, how much time are they supposed to take? From what we know, Goldenheart's fiance said he was here to join his WIFE. Not "girlfriend," not "fiancee," not "wife-to-be." Are they supposed to say, "Well, are you sure she's your wife?"

Oh pleaseeeeeeeeeee, who of us knows the whole of American law, let alone immigration law!!!!! Most immigration attorneys are hard pressed to even know the full immigration law yet you think a new immigrant should know? What a jokster you are to say the least.

Yes, I can read, he said "wife", I am sure he was nervous and was not thinking of the correct word. That is where a few more questions could of cleared up the situation. He was in jail for quite a while so why didnt someome bother to speak with him??? Poor man must have been terrified. In a strange country and going to jail. I am ashamed of how he was treated by my country!!!! where is the humanity??? Where is the comapssion for human life???

I can tell you that my husband has been made to feel as though he is a criminal and still feels that way. Yet he has no history whatsoever of any illegal behaviour. He is a kind gentle loving person brought low by my own government just as GH fiancee was.

Wha? If he is coming to this country, it seems to me that it is indeed HIS responsibility to be in FULL compliance with American law and policy.

To insinuate that we did not folllow the complieance with American law and policy, is an insult to me. If you are not here to provide valuable information. I would advise you to not bother posting to this topic! I'm going through a great deal of emotions at this moment. The emotions are so high that I'm not sure if I want to wake up each morning. I agree 100 percent that my fiance should not have called me his Muslim wife, but he did not think it was anything wrong with it because we told the CO at the interview when he question our engagement rings and I put this in my petition when I applied for the K1 visa the second time.

A few moments taken to clarify would be so helpful to all incoming immigrants. If he isnsited he was married, then i would agree it was his error. But it sounds like the POE officer just didn't care to take the time. This is what I find upsetting.

Again, how much time are they supposed to take? From what we know, Goldenheart's fiance said he was here to join his WIFE. Not "girlfriend," not "fiancee," not "wife-to-be." Are they supposed to say, "Well, are you sure she's your wife?"

Aish

I don't think they should take much time, however, they did take 24 hours of his time to put him in jail. Why not allowed me to talk to him during those 24 hours when I called?

I'm sorry, this post has gotten me so upset tthat I've decided not to come back to this webise...Thank you all for your prayers, duaa and support. May Allah reward the faithful ones. I wish you all luck, peace and prosperity.

Your sister,

Aisha

Aisha, don't leave because of a few critical people. You have more support here than you know. No matter if your fiancee used the wrong word, I still say the officer could have helped him more.

I am in health care, imagine if we did things like that? (Ops, sorry, you said the wrong area was hurting so we looked where you told us. Next time don't say the wrong word!!!!)

Take care and keep us posted.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{MANY HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

chi

[chiquita 0]

zyggy & pax,

Thanks for reiterating much of what I shared yesterday on this thread. While I can understand the temptation of some of the regular members of this forum to want to find a reason why this is so unfair, it may *seem* unfair, but that's not necessarily true, nor is it productive. To suggest that anything can be reversed would be to suggest that the regulations should be rewritten. That's not practical, nor is it likely to occur.

I wish others could refrain from suggesting that the very land they wish their beloved partners to live in is a hostile, heartless place, and rife with prejudice. Our borders are as secure as they are so that we can retain the freedoms we all so dearly respect here. Is it the result of the acts of a few that have taken advantage of us? Yes, but were all living with both the consequences and the benefits.

Unfortunately, there's no use crying over spillt milk, no matter how tragic it is for the parties involved, the damage is done, and now it's time to get proactive and be focused on solutions to the problem.

I hope that goldenheart will reconsider her choice to participate on VJ. Her tragedy has opened a lot of eyes, that might otherwise have stumbled into a similar complication. She has work to do to resolve this nightmare, and I suspect that this board will provide her with support, couple that with the information she receives from a qualified immigration attorney that has experience in these matters, it will make the road ahead more navigable.

It's people like you that make America bad>>>>>

<<<<hostile, heartless place, and rife with prejudice>>>>

<<<<there's no use crying over spillt milk>>>>

<<<<She has work to do to resolve this nightmare>>>>

I am so angry over how critical a few have been to GH. Unless it happens to you, there are those who will never know the pain and heartache of such misfortunes in life.

My anger is towards those who are self-rightous bigots.

You will never know the nightmare since it didn't happen to you. If you had any compassion at all you would at least soften your responses. You are exactly what makes our great country foul.

[chiquita 0]

GH, I will send an inquiry to an immigration attorney and ask his advice. I want so much to do something for you. Hang in there, this a big bump in the journey. But you can make it through.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

chi

[meauxna 15]

You are exactly what makes our great country foul.

Earlier, I thought you were merely rude.

I need a dictionary now to find a word to help me understand your train of thought on this one.

[LaL 418]

zyggy & pax,

Thanks for reiterating much of what I shared yesterday on this thread. While I can understand the temptation of some of the regular members of this forum to want to find a reason why this is so unfair, it may *seem* unfair, but that's not necessarily true, nor is it productive. To suggest that anything can be reversed would be to suggest that the regulations should be rewritten. That's not practical, nor is it likely to occur.

I wish others could refrain from suggesting that the very land they wish their beloved partners to live in is a hostile, heartless place, and rife with prejudice. Our borders are as secure as they are so that we can retain the freedoms we all so dearly respect here. Is it the result of the acts of a few that have taken advantage of us? Yes, but were all living with both the consequences and the benefits.

Unfortunately, there's no use crying over spillt milk, no matter how tragic it is for the parties involved, the damage is done, and now it's time to get proactive and be focused on solutions to the problem.

I hope that goldenheart will reconsider her choice to participate on VJ. Her tragedy has opened a lot of eyes, that might otherwise have stumbled into a similar complication. She has work to do to resolve this nightmare, and I suspect that this board will provide her with support, couple that with the information she receives from a qualified immigration attorney that has experience in these matters, it will make the road ahead more navigable.

It's people like you that make America bad>>>>>

<<<<hostile, heartless place, and rife with prejudice>>>>

<<<<there's no use crying over spillt milk>>>>

<<<<She has work to do to resolve this nightmare>>>>

I am so angry over how critical a few have been to GH. Unless it happens to you, there are those who will never know the pain and heartache of such misfortunes in life.

My anger is towards those who are self-rightous bigots.

You will never know the nightmare since it didn't happen to you. If you had any compassion at all you would at least soften your responses. You are exactly what makes our great country foul.

wow - my heart goes out to GH truely, but I in no way subscribe to this point of view. DM has provided much direction and support. I do not understand at all slagging DM for posting objective, helpful information.

and why are the CBP bigots? it was a mistranslation, etc. whatever word you want to use. Its a sad, tragic situation. Period. DM was definatley providing sound, objective advice to MOVE FORWARD. I am glad we have people who can offer this kind of information when people are in need.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

In goldenheart’s situation, she referred earlier to fraud being the grounds for removal. I do not doubt her but there are two circumstances that prompt expedited removal. §235( b )(1)(A)(i) of the INA explains the process of Expedited Removal.

It states that:

a) Any alien that misrepresents facts INA §212(a)(6)© in an attempt to gain admission to the USA is inadmissible; and

b ) Any alien lacking proper documentation INA §212(a)(7) that mainly targets immigrants that lack correct documentation for lawful residence, and nonimmigrants who lack a valid passport and visa. An alien that is not a bona fide nonimmigrant (who then becomes an immigrant lacking correct documentation) is most common.

may be removed from the country without a hearing or appeal (INA §235( b )(1)), unless such alien, out of fear of persecution, claims an interest in applying for asylum. Those subject to removal will be detained until removal and the removal itself confers a bar to reentry for at least five years, unless the Attorney General agrees to an earlier admission through the waiver process.

Pursuant to IIRIRA, of 1996, an alternative offered to aliens that find themselves in this predicament at the POE. This is referred to as a "withdrawal of application for admission". From what I have read POE inspectors favour this, as it ostensibly permits the alien to return to his country and have no long-term bar in place. Hoever, this is not a matter of right afforded an alien, as it was prior to the reform, but may be subject to the discretion of the Attorney General.

Now the sentiment on this thread is that something occured during the process that triggered the 5 year bar to admission, but in point of fact, the determination by the POE agent appears to be that he was inadmissible.

Edited June 2, 2006 by diadromous mermaid

[diadromous mermaid 36]

zyggy & pax,

Thanks for reiterating much of what I shared yesterday on this thread. While I can understand the temptation of some of the regular members of this forum to want to find a reason why this is so unfair, it may *seem* unfair, but that's not necessarily true, nor is it productive. To suggest that anything can be reversed would be to suggest that the regulations should be rewritten. That's not practical, nor is it likely to occur.

I wish others could refrain from suggesting that the very land they wish their beloved partners to live in is a hostile, heartless place, and rife with prejudice. Our borders are as secure as they are so that we can retain the freedoms we all so dearly respect here. Is it the result of the acts of a few that have taken advantage of us? Yes, but were all living with both the consequences and the benefits.

Unfortunately, there's no use crying over spillt milk, no matter how tragic it is for the parties involved, the damage is done, and now it's time to get proactive and be focused on solutions to the problem.

I hope that goldenheart will reconsider her choice to participate on VJ. Her tragedy has opened a lot of eyes, that might otherwise have stumbled into a similar complication. She has work to do to resolve this nightmare, and I suspect that this board will provide her with support, couple that with the information she receives from a qualified immigration attorney that has experience in these matters, it will make the road ahead more navigable.

It's people like you that make America bad>>>>>

<<<<hostile, heartless place, and rife with prejudice>>>>

<<<<there's no use crying over spillt milk>>>>

<<<<She has work to do to resolve this nightmare>>>>

chiquita,

Of course, you're entitled to your opinion, and not much of what you are saying here is

a. going to alter my point of view, or my focus

b. going to correct any wrong that has happened

If you wish to be a source of support and compassion, as evidently you claim I am not, then "do something"! There's a man who is right now in Germany 4600 miles or more away from his fiancée, with whom he expected to be reunited two days ago. Do you really think he'd feel better if he reads only outpouring of excuses, or do you think he would feel much more relieved to know that there are folks here trying to assist goldenheart in understanding the issue, addressing it with her attorney and moving towards a resolution?

I am so angry over how critical a few have been to GH. Unless it happens to you, there are those who will never know the pain and heartache of such misfortunes in life.

You have no idea what level of compassion, attention or encouragement I have offered goldenheart in private. A person I had never had the occasion to speak with or even post with prior to this incident. In fact, FYI, I had an important project that deadlined yesterday, that I put aside to answer her PMS and offer whatever aid I could.

My anger is towards those who are self-rightous bigots.

This whole matter arose out of a POE agent responding to something said, inadvertantly, and presuming something that was, apparently, not the case. A mere "mistake", as you'd want to call it. Well, in view of that, there was this outpouring of outrage, was there not? How could they do this? Now, you are inclined to consider people who are actively assisting as "self-righteous bigots", without knowledge of any other communication or details about me as a person. You are seeing something that simply does not exist. Can you not then consider you are just as wrong as the very POE agent that mischaracterised goldenheart's fiancé?

You will never know the nightmare since it didn't happen to you. If you had any compassion at all you would at least soften your responses. You are exactly what makes our great country foul.

You have absolutely no idea of the nightmares, pain, heartache and misfortune that I have faced, not that I'd care to share them here, anyway. And I believe that compassion is something I offer at all times, as a result of that pain and misfortune. Why even in my response to your comment, I am affording you more respect than you did to me. That's OK, if you need to find a scapegoat for your misplaced anger, then by all means choose me.

Edited June 2, 2006 by diadromous mermaid

[Jenn! 918]

That's OK, if you need to find a scapegoat for your misplaced anger, then by all means choose me.

This is such a sensitive, emotional topic, and I can truly see both points of view on this. As the wife of an Arab muslim myself, I can certainly sympathize with the feeling that bigotry is a factor. But in this particular circumstance, it seems clear that the refusal at POE was not a result of prejudice, but rather, of a mistake on the part of GH's fiance . I'm not saying it was his fault, but it was his statement that resulted in his denial of entry.

DM, just please understand where those who have "played the prejudice card" are coming from. I think you do actually, and are offering very sound advice to GH. For some from ME/NA, it is just very difficult to *not* attribute things to racism, when you have experienced so much of it.

It is so hard to think clearly throughout this entire process, when all we all want is to be with our loved ones. Everyone has their own theory as to why GH's fiance was denied entry, but the bottom line is that she needs to figure out what actions she needs to take. As reprehensble as it may seem to some of you, using the motive of prejudice on the part of the POE officer is not going to get GH anywhere in trying to get her fiance to the U.S.

[Veiled Princess 1]

Assalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu ya ukhti,

I'm so sorry to hear about what is happening with your husband! I will keep you in my prayers inshallah.

Is this addressed in the guides/visa faqs at the top of the page? I know my husband and I were religiously married in Egypt prior to doing the K-1, but after the advice from the forum here, we were quite careful to only refer to ourselves as fiances (since we were in the legal sense).

I think that is the issue here. It's not that it's not permitted to have the non-legal ceremony, but referring to your fiancee as your wife is a big no-no.

We don't have the visa yet BUT.. in my I-129F packet that I sent in initially, I included, as one of my proofs that we intend to marry upon his arrival, a copy of our Islamic marriage contract and a letter explaining that we had a religious ceremony and as far as we're concerned, we are already married but that we don't have a marriage certificate/license because it was too much trouble to get it overseas. My petition got approved with that and it has made it through to the embassy with the marriage contract attached to it so far so I don't really buy into that being the reason they deported him. It was probably because he's ME/Arab/Muslim and they were having a particularly racist day that day! I'll be sure to tell my husband not to refer to me as his wife while traveling here. It figures that they would prefer him to be coming here to shack up with a woman he's not married to instead of being married religiously first. That is the "American way" after all.

As far as being allowed to fraternize with a man you're not married to in Islam... NO way! You can talk to him with your dad (or other male family member) present during an engagement period but there is no dating in Islam.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

That's OK, if you need to find a scapegoat for your misplaced anger, then by all means choose me.

This is such a sensitive, emotional topic, and I can truly see both points of view on this. As the wife of an Arab muslim myself, I can certainly sympathize with the feeling that bigotry is a factor. But in this particular circumstance, it seems clear that the refusal at POE was not a result of prejudice, but rather, of a mistake on the part of GH's fiance . I'm not saying it was his fault, but it was his statement that resulted in his denial of entry.

DM, just please understand where those who have "played the prejudice card" are coming from. I think you do actually, and are offering very sound advice to GH. For some from ME/NA, it is just very difficult to *not* attribute things to racism, when you have experienced so much of it.

It is so hard to think clearly throughout this entire process, when all we all want is to be with our loved ones. Everyone has their own theory as to why GH's fiance was denied entry, but the bottom line is that she needs to figure out what actions she needs to take. As reprehensble as it may seem to some of you, using the motive of prejudice on the part of the POE officer is not going to get GH anywhere in trying to get her fiance to the U.S.

The definition of a bigot is one who is strongly partial to one's own group, clique, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ. It would be my expectation that if anyone has been exposed to or been the victim of bigoted views and treatment, that the last thing they'd be inclined to do would be to actually engage in it themselves. Unfortunately, several posts in this thread prove otherwise.

[Jenn! 918]

It would be my expectation that if anyone has been exposed to or been the victim of bigoted views and treatment, that the last thing they'd be inclined to do would be to actually engage in it themselves. Unfortunately, several posts in this thread prove otherwise.

I think that the immediate reaction would be to lash out at whoever acted in a way you felt was prejudiced against you. I also think it is natural to feel that whoever agrees with the actions of someone you perceive to be bigoted is bigoted themselves. Not saying that it's right, but I think it's just an emotional response.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

I'll be sure to tell my husband not to refer to me as his wife while traveling here. It figures that they would prefer him to be coming here to shack up with a woman he's not married to instead of being married religiously first. That is the "American way" after all.

As far as being allowed to fraternize with a man you're not married to in Islam... NO way! You can talk to him with your dad (or other male family member) present during an engagement period but there is no dating in Islam.

I'm sorry. Please help me to understand. On the one hand you are snubbing the "American Way" of your fiancé coming here and shacking up with a woman before marriage and how against your religious beliefs that is, and yet you are the petitioner, correct? So, why did you choose the fiancé visa, as opposed to an immigrant visa or a K-3, where you would not have to compro,mise your values?

It just seems to me, that if some activity, some "American" activity goes against all that one honours in one's religion, that you have other options.

It would be my expectation that if anyone has been exposed to or been the victim of bigoted views and treatment, that the last thing they'd be inclined to do would be to actually engage in it themselves. Unfortunately, several posts in this thread prove otherwise.

I think that the immediate reaction would be to lash out at whoever acted in a way you felt was prejudiced against you. I also think it is natural to feel that whoever agrees with the actions of someone you perceive to be bigoted is bigoted themselves. Not saying that it's right, but I think it's just an emotional response.

It may be Jenn, although it's not my style and I would think that it does sort of fall into the "pot calling the kettle black" category. If it's so reprehensible that it would evoke such outcry, it's unthinkable, right?

[Jenn! 918]

It may be Jenn, although it's not my style and I would think that it does sort of fall into the "pot calling the kettle black" category. If it's so reprehensible that it would evoke such outcry, it's unthinkable, right?

Oh, of course. I just think it's very easy to be irrational when one's in such an emotional state.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

It may be Jenn, although it's not my style and I would think that it does sort of fall into the "pot calling the kettle black" category. If it's so reprehensible that it would evoke such outcry, it's unthinkable, right?

Oh, of course. I just think it's very easy to be irrational when one's in such an emotional state.

If that's the explanation then hats off to goldenheart, then! She's the one who is devastated from this; she has every reason to be in a heightened emotional state, yet she carries herself with grace and tolerance. It's too bad some of her cohorts in this forum couldn't do the same.

[morocco4ever 63]

It just seems that the obvious is being ignored. The religious ceremony was addressed with the I-129F and it was approved. The POE turned him away for something that was already approved. So basically, one said its allowed, one said it isn't. Shouldn't our immigration laws remain consistent?

As far as those of you offering help, thats great! Maybe just soften the tone a bit. Rather than say "He's not eligible". Say "the POE viewed him as ineligible". Rather than say "lesson learned" say it was a tragic miscommunication, hopefully others can read what happened to you and learn.

Now for the prejudice thing. I have never had problems at any POE when I am by myself, but when I have traveled with people with darker skin we are always pulled off to the side and searched thoroughly. Coincidence?

I am so sorry my dear sister...I hope you are still reading. Please don't stop coming to VJ. You are venturing in a new and scary territory, and maybe someone here will have some excellent advice, and maybe you can help someone down the road that will go through the same thing. I imagine that you can appeal. I know in Morocco my husband had a letter of celibacy before we got married. Do they have anything like that in Germany? Its time to start gathering whatever documentation you can think of to prove the ceremony wasn't legal.