YESTERDAY MY HONEY SHOULD ARRIVE, but he did not!!!!

[chiquita 0]

I would suggest you read Zyggy's post again.

It is not, in fact, the job of POE officers to be experts in international relations and world religions. They are to protect the borders of this country and ensure that everyone they admit into the country is respecting the laws that govern their type of admission. If Goldenheart's fiance mentioned a wife, what else were they supposed to think?

None of this means that this isn't a heartbreaking situation for Goldenheart, and I personally hope they can sort things out quickly and happily. But the POE officers did their job. A K-1 visa is for an unmarried person. Goldenheart's fiance presented himself as married.

I disagree. A government employee needs to understand they are dealing with people who don't have a full grasp of immigration issues not to mention the English language. A few moments taken to clarify would be so helpful to all incoming immigrants. If he isnsited he was married, then i would agree it was his error. But it sounds like the POE officer just didn't care to take the time. This is what I find upsetting.

chi

That IS #######.... They ask you so many questions because they want to wait for you to say the wrong thing

I agree!!!!!!!!!!!

[pax 0]

A government employee needs to understand they are dealing with people who don't have a full grasp of immigration issues ...

Wha? If he is coming to this country, it seems to me that it is indeed HIS responsibility to be in FULL compliance with American law and policy.

A few moments taken to clarify would be so helpful to all incoming immigrants. If he isnsited he was married, then i would agree it was his error. But it sounds like the POE officer just didn't care to take the time. This is what I find upsetting.

Again, how much time are they supposed to take? From what we know, Goldenheart's fiance said he was here to join his WIFE. Not "girlfriend," not "fiancee," not "wife-to-be." Are they supposed to say, "Well, are you sure she's your wife?"

[morocco4ever 63]

A government employee needs to understand they are dealing with people who don't have a full grasp of immigration issues ...

Wha? If he is coming to this country, it seems to me that it is indeed HIS responsibility to be in FULL compliance with American law and policy.

A few moments taken to clarify would be so helpful to all incoming immigrants. If he isnsited he was married, then i would agree it was his error. But it sounds like the POE officer just didn't care to take the time. This is what I find upsetting.

Again, how much time are they supposed to take? From what we know, Goldenheart's fiance said he was here to join his WIFE. Not "girlfriend," not "fiancee," not "wife-to-be." Are they supposed to say, "Well, are you sure she's your wife?"

So true......and he was denied a translator, otherwise he would have understood.

[fatimah 0]

is there anything our sister can do? :

Hello All VJ's

Yesterday my honey was to arrive to Denver via POE Atlanta. But he never arrived!

I was in complete hysteric and attempt to call him on his cellular throughout the night. Needless to say, he called me at 4 am this morning to tell me that he has been detained and pending deportation.

I asked him why? and he said that they wanted him to sign a document, but they did not tell him the content of the document and he refused to sign it. They kept him in detention for 27 hours before deporting him. He said he do not know where they will be taking him because they confiscated his passport and visa. I called the immigration and they told me that they could not provide me with information, due to the Privacy Act. They said that I must talk to my fiance. My fiance called me soon after to tell me that he was leaving Atlanta in 10 minutes and I asked him a ton of questions but the officer behind him threathen to hang up the phone if he answered my questions. BTW, my fiance said they told him that he is ban from the USA for 5 years!!!!

I'm at a lost here and I do not know what to do!!!! Can someone provide me with some guidance here. I feel after all of my hard work, I failed in getting my honey home and now his life is totally screwed because of me

I lived in Georgia and always processed through Atlanta Immigration once returning from Morocco. During my last trip from Morocco this year March 27, Immigration officer asked me so many questions especially when he saw where I worked at (Aerospace Company). Come to find out he previously worked at the same company I did so this was a positive towards me although I am muslim lady who covers.

I feel for the lady who is in trouble with Immigration. I find that Atlanta Immigration are pretty tough for many reasons that so many foreigners are coming through Atlanta now than before.

I'm sorry I know my comments are no help but will send many prayers for her.

Khadija

[goldenheart 0]

Wha? If he is coming to this country, it seems to me that it is indeed HIS responsibility to be in FULL compliance with American law and policy.

To insinuate that we did not folllow the complieance with American law and policy, is an insult to me. If you are not here to provide valuable information. I would advise you to not bother posting to this topic! I'm going through a great deal of emotions at this moment. The emotions are so high that I'm not sure if I want to wake up each morning. I agree 100 percent that my fiance should not have called me his Muslim wife, but he did not think it was anything wrong with it because we told the CO at the interview when he question our engagement rings and I put this in my petition when I applied for the K1 visa the second time.

A few moments taken to clarify would be so helpful to all incoming immigrants. If he isnsited he was married, then i would agree it was his error. But it sounds like the POE officer just didn't care to take the time. This is what I find upsetting.

Again, how much time are they supposed to take? From what we know, Goldenheart's fiance said he was here to join his WIFE. Not "girlfriend," not "fiancee," not "wife-to-be." Are they supposed to say, "Well, are you sure she's your wife?"

I don't think they should take much time, however, they did take 24 hours of his time to put him in jail. Why not allowed me to talk to him during those 24 hours when I called?

I'm sorry, this post has gotten me so upset tthat I've decided not to come back to this webise...Thank you all for your prayers, duaa and support. May Allah reward the faithful ones. I wish you all luck, peace and prosperity.

Your sister,

Aisha

[pax 0]

Aisha, to suggest that what I and others have posted is unhelpful is missing the entire point. What happened to your fiance is very sad. And I did post that I hope the situation can be resolved quickly. I have tried to spend my time on VJ offering people support and kindness, but to stand by as other people post incorrect and misleading information is no help to anyone.

I can't and won't recant what I said. Again, to do so would lead people to believe that what your fiance said was not a problem, and it was the fault of some small-minded POE officers. From what you've told us, it was not. I doubt he would have been treated much differently at any POE, or moreover at a POE for any other country.

I didn't mean to insinuate that you did anything illegal, and I apologize if my post sounded that way. To say that it was his responsibility to comply with American law means that it would have been more helpful to him to have fully understood the terms of the visa, and to realize that if he said he was coming here to join his WIFE, he would run the risk of being denied entry. It's not the first time this has happened on VJ.

Had my English-speaking, white, Christian fiance said the same thing at his POE, he certainly would have been turned back. And with good reason, too.

Still, none of that means that I don't want to see a happy resolution for you. Of course I do--and as quickly as possible at that. But let it be a lesson to anyone else in a similar situation.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Wow.

This is just sooo sooooo sad. My heart goes out to you both. What a terrible case of miscommunication and misunderstanding. Allah with you both.

Insha'allah you will get this mess cleared up soon, and be reunited. I want to thank you for taking the time to post your story, even in the midst of this tragic turn of events.... the information will be of great value to others in a similar situation.

Please don't let unhelpful comments upset you further.... there are many others here who may have useful advice.

Let us know what happens. My thoughts and prayers with you.

-MK

[zyggy 9]

Aisha, to suggest that what I and others have posted is unhelpful is missing the entire point. What happened to your fiance is very sad. And I did post that I hope the situation can be resolved quickly. I have tried to spend my time on VJ offering people support and kindness, but to stand by as other people post incorrect and misleading information is no help to anyone.

I can't and won't recant what I said. Again, to do so would lead people to believe that what your fiance said was not a problem, and it was the fault of some small-minded POE officers. From what you've told us, it was not. I doubt he would have been treated much differently at any POE, or moreover at a POE for any other country.

I didn't mean to insinuate that you did anything illegal, and I apologize if my post sounded that way. To say that it was his responsibility to comply with American law means that it would have been more helpful to him to have fully understood the terms of the visa, and to realize that if he said he was coming here to join his WIFE, he would run the risk of being denied entry. It's not the first time this has happened on VJ.

Had my English-speaking, white, Christian fiance said the same thing at his POE, he certainly would have been turned back. And with good reason, too.

Still, none of that means that I don't want to see a happy resolution for you. Of course I do--and as quickly as possible at that. But let it be a lesson to anyone else in a similar situation.

Indeed.. while I was in CBP we turned away a great many Christian, English speaking individuals who happened to make the "mistake" of stating that they had a "wife" or wearing a wedding ring.

Again, the word "wife" has a very specific term and meaning. There is no loss in translation anywhere. In the eyes of the CBP, if you say the word "wife" , "husband" or "spouse", it's all over. Saying something like this is something you can't retract or try to explain away, because the cat is now out of the bag. After that incident the presumption on the part of CBP is that you are married. At this time to refute that presumption, it is the responsibility of the alien to prove without a shadow of a doubt that there was no legal marriage. When you're standing at the POE, that is impossible. At that point in time, there has been a determination that you are inadmissible under a K-1 and you have to leave the US. You can either do that voluntarilly without a ban, or you go into expeditied removal proceedings to try to change that determination. If you go into expedited removal proceedings and you lose, basically a certainty since you wouldn't have any evidence to refute their presumption and they find against you, then you are given expedited removal with a 5-year ban. I say again, it is easy to show that one is married, it is very difficult to prove that one is not married.

As I have said before, at a POE you have no legal rights, no legal recourse. The legal rules you are used to do not apply. It is not up to the CBP to prove that you are ineligible to gain entry on a K-1 visa. It is up to the alien to prove that they are eligible. You are guilty until you prove yourself innocent or more specifically you are inadmissible until you prove that you are admissible.

I am sorry for what happened to the OP.. There is little that you can do now than to get married legally in another country, file an I-130, and then file for a Waiver when the visa is denied. Let this be a lesson for all of you about the danger of having a "religious" marriage and why it's best to not have one until after one is legally married in the US on a K-1. If it is imperative that one be married for cultural reasons, then it is better for one to get legally married in the foreign country and then try to get a K-3 or Immigrant Visa.

Edited June 2, 2006 by zyggy

[diadromous mermaid 36]

zyggy & pax,

Thanks for reiterating much of what I shared yesterday on this thread. While I can understand the temptation of some of the regular members of this forum to want to find a reason why this is so unfair, it may *seem* unfair, but that's not necessarily true, nor is it productive. To suggest that anything can be reversed would be to suggest that the regulations should be rewritten. That's not practical, nor is it likely to occur.

I wish others could refrain from suggesting that the very land they wish their beloved partners to live in is a hostile, heartless place, and rife with prejudice. Our borders are as secure as they are so that we can retain the freedoms we all so dearly respect here. Is it the result of the acts of a few that have taken advantage of us? Yes, but were all living with both the consequences and the benefits.

Unfortunately, there's no use crying over spillt milk, no matter how tragic it is for the parties involved, the damage is done, and now it's time to get proactive and be focused on solutions to the problem.

I hope that goldenheart will reconsider her choice to participate on VJ. Her tragedy has opened a lot of eyes, that might otherwise have stumbled into a similar complication. She has work to do to resolve this nightmare, and I suspect that this board will provide her with support, couple that with the information she receives from a qualified immigration attorney that has experience in these matters, it will make the road ahead more navigable.

[babybunny 2]

A government employee needs to understand they are dealing with people who don't have a full grasp of immigration issues ...

Wha? If he is coming to this country, it seems to me that it is indeed HIS responsibility to be in FULL compliance with American law and policy.

A few moments taken to clarify would be so helpful to all incoming immigrants. If he isnsited he was married, then i would agree it was his error. But it sounds like the POE officer just didn't care to take the time. This is what I find upsetting.

Again, how much time are they supposed to take? From what we know, Goldenheart's fiance said he was here to join his WIFE. Not "girlfriend," not "fiancee," not "wife-to-be." Are they supposed to say, "Well, are you sure she's your wife?"

So true......and he was denied a translator, otherwise he would have understood.

Maybe - at the same time translators can not explain the Law or the definiton of phrases.

they only translate word for word. POE officers wont sit there and explain their tools and techniques either.

They have to have some kind of screening process. It sucks I think they could have not been so harsh but, thats how they are.

I hope aisha comes back to VJ and get some support.

[meauxna 15]

Unless I am wrong they addressed this in the original I-129F and it was approved by the experts. The approved petition is Prima Facia evidence of his right to hold that visa type.

And, as was pointed out, a lot can change between petition approval and arrival at the POE. Each step in the process is distinct and unique and does not necessarily depend on what happened at the previous step.

A lot of people here pooh pooh the idea of hiring, or even consulting with, a lawyer. I have to say, the longer I'm around it, the more I start to agree with using a lawyer. A good lawyer will help the couple anticipate and deal with red flags and other issues like this to avoid them. I understand that gh is upset, I sure as hell would be too, but to say that all "we" are allowed to do is offer "support" (translation: I'm so sorrys etc) is unproductive. First off, shon re-posted this, and her first line is 'is there anything our sister can do?'. The 'unsupportive' among us must be the people who are focused on that instead of on I'm Sorrys (which I think we've all expressed actually). Isn't it better to have some information that is based in reality instead of unproductive guessing and pointing fingers at "them" for not doing their job the way you'd like? Personally, I'd rather have the right information, even if it didn't make me feel better in the moment.

My earlier comment (pot/kettle) was regarding ignorance and stereotyping. I felt that comment was a slam on the non-Islamic for not being aware of the minutia of the practices of Islam (of which there are many, many variations). It read to me as if the comment was doing the very thing it was criticizing.

IMO, this event was not racially, ethnically or religiously motivated. It could've happened to anyone, and it has in the past.

[maya62 7]

Gosh I hope Goldenheart is still reading. My heart goes out to her and her sweety. But in order to move forward, the more resources and information they have, the better. VJ is one valuable source of info.

It was reading VJ that saved us from a fate just like that. We had a religious, undocumented, not-legal-in-his-country-or-the-US "celebration", and when I stumbled upon something at VJ about this topic while researching K-1 visas, after I had a cow, I was able to thoroughly research how to handle it. And my fiance did fine when he was asked by the CO at the interview if we had had any kind of ceremony (he told the truth, but he also fully understood the significance of what he was being asked). And we had a very smooth POE experience, thank goodness.

Let all of this be a lesson to those starting down this path...

BUT, that said, I am wondering if Goldenheart saw this, from a link posted recently on the thread she started herself (I am asking this on this thread since it seems like Goldenheart is/was more active on this thread):

Q: How Can I Appeal?

A: In certain circumstances, if you used a valid visa to apply for admission and your application for admission has been denied, you can request a hearing before the Immigration Court, where an immigration judge will determine your case. A judge's decision can be appealed to the Board of Immigration Appeals (BIA). You will receive instructions on where and how to appeal. For more information, please see, How Do I Appeal? If you apply for admission to the United States under the Visa Waiver Pilot Program, the decision of the officer is final. In cases involving fraud, willful misrepresentation, false claim to U.S. citizenship or lack of a valid immigrant visa for an intending immigrant, the officer's decision is final.

Since it sounds like her SO is being accused of fraud, maybe they won't be able to appeal. I wonder if Zyggy has an opinion? What do others think of this possible option?

Best wishes to Goldenheart...

Maya

[Jenn! 918]

I wish others could refrain from suggesting that the very land they wish their beloved partners to live in is a hostile, heartless place, and rife with prejudice. Our borders are as secure as they are so that we can retain the freedoms we all so dearly respect here. Is it the result of the acts of a few that have taken advantage of us? Yes, but were all living with both the consequences and the benefits.

I see what you're saying here and I wish it were true, but I don't believe it is. Our borders are only secure in certain places, and there is much hostility and prejudice in this country. However, I also believe that this has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

[chiquita 0]

Aisha, to suggest that what I and others have posted is unhelpful is missing the entire point. What happened to your fiance is very sad. And I did post that I hope the situation can be resolved quickly. I have tried to spend my time on VJ offering people support and kindness, but to stand by as other people post incorrect and misleading information is no help to anyone.

*****I am the same...a stickler for truth, but you miss the real truth here, that someone from another country was asking an official here for lauguage help and was denied. Aisha even tried to speak with him to find out the problem but was cut off.*****

I can't and won't recant what I said. Again, to do so would lead people to believe that what your fiance said was not a problem, and it was the fault of some small-minded POE officers. From what you've told us, it was not. I doubt he would have been treated much differently at any POE, or moreover at a POE for any other country.

*****Lol...it was a small minded POE...maybe Bubba whose family have a right to be here but no one else does!!*****

I didn't mean to insinuate that you did anything illegal, and I apologize if my post sounded that way. To say that it was his responsibility to comply with American law means that it would have been more helpful to him to have fully understood the terms of the visa, and to realize that if he said he was coming here to join his WIFE, he would run the risk of being denied entry. It's not the first time this has happened on VJ.

*****To late, he is not an American so how the &*^%$ would he know American law??? Peoplef your loved ones studies American law to get a visa???? Ludicrous!!!!*****

Had my English-speaking, white, Christian fiance said the same thing at his POE, he certainly would have been turned back. And with good reason, too.

Still, none of that means that I don't want to see a happy resolution for you. Of course I do--and as quickly as possible at that. But let it be a lesson to anyone else in a similar situation.

HARSH HARSH HARSH is all I can say to you.

And the POINT is??????????? That you have a English-speaking, white, Christian fiance.

You said>>>>>

<<<<<Had my English-speaking, white, Christian fiance said the same thing at his POE, he certainly would have been turned back. And with good reason, too.>>>>>

It is quite obvious your fiance didn't need any help at his POE. Let me tell you that some people do!! And for you to be so critical of something you know nothing about is plain cruel! Most of us here know and understand the cultural differences that our men/women have. Language is the first barrier, culture is another, then there is religion as a barrier. If you don't know this then you tend to be like most...let me not get started. You have hurt Aisha beyond measure.

LESSON LEARNED=cruel people are always ready to chomp up the down and hurting!!!!

[UmmSqueakster 54]

Even my husband, who's been taking english classes since first grade and is almost fluent, was flustered at the POE and got hopelessly lost in the Chicago airport. Immigration is a stressful event, and I can't imagine what it would be like for me if the officers in Egypt wanted me to sign forms in arabic when I'm not fluent. I know I'd be flustered.

So GH's husband mentions their married. Ok, said and done, he's sent back home. But what could have been avoided on the POE officers' part was the 5 year ban, if they had allowed him to call his wife and/or get a translator and/or have time to sit down and read the documents he was signing. That could have alleviated the 5 year ban issue.