YESTERDAY MY HONEY SHOULD ARRIVE, but he did not!!!!

[goldenheart 0]

I think the points being brought up are definitley bigger than this one case and they're more than I can sort out in my head. I'm only going to say my heart aches for you Goldenheart, I hope this gets resolved very soon and that you and your fiance/husband/hey-that-one-guy-I-know...whatever title you put on him for whatever reason gets here soon. Take care of yourself.

Thanks Joe! You take care of yourself as well. Also, when you unite with your fiance, do not take one minute of her time for granted.

[goldenheart 0]

Thank you all for your inputs and support in my visa tragedy. The bottom line is, my fiance and I never intended to commit fraud as the deportation documents stated. We only thought that the K1 visa was the right path to take at the time, had we know otherwise we would have surely chosen the right path.

Also, when we were questioned at the interview in Frankfurt the CO asked us if we were muslims and if we did the islamic marriage and I told him the truth, because at that time we were wearing our engagement rings. He started telling us about a young lady(USC) that came for an interview the day prior that had to do the same thing to travel and visit her fiance. He said that he was familiar with the process.

I assumed if I disclosed this islamic ceremony to the CO, as well as , on my petition to the Nebraska Service Center, It would have been ok for the CBP. as well.

If you all remember correctly, My petition was previously denied because I had not met my fiance face-to-face within two years. Therefore, after I visited him in Germany I answer question 18 correctly, by stating I had a religous ceremony with the local imam. I did not hide anything, because I honestly thought I was following all the rules.

Goldenheart, please don't reproach yourself, as I said earlier. It's just an unfortunate circumstance. Now, how did all go with the immigration attorney? Does he have a grasp of the case yet?

SHe said the case was quite complicated. However, I do remember her saying that in order for the Imam to perform a legal ceremony he MUST have a notorzed permission letter from my fiance to perform such a ceremony in his absent. My fiance never gave the imam "legal" permission to do so. Therefore she said that she do not see a problem refuting the marriage part.

Also, she read the statement on my original petition that I infact disclosed the religious ceremony. I also had copies of my fiance letters and cards that he sent to me and his "terrible english grammer" was proof of his lack of knowledge of the english language.

She said that the 5 year banned will be hard to remove.

BTW...I'm only sharing my experience because I do not want anyone to make the same mistakes that I have.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

Thank you all for your inputs and support in my visa tragedy. The bottom line is, my fiance and I never intended to commit fraud as the deportation documents stated. We only thought that the K1 visa was the right path to take at the time, had we know otherwise we would have surely chosen the right path.

Also, when we were questioned at the interview in Frankfurt the CO asked us if we were muslims and if we did the islamic marriage and I told him the truth, because at that time we were wearing our engagement rings. He started telling us about a young lady(USC) that came for an interview the day prior that had to do the same thing to travel and visit her fiance. He said that he was familiar with the process.

I assumed if I disclosed this islamic ceremony to the CO, as well as , on my petition to the Nebraska Service Center, It would have been ok for the CBP. as well.

If you all remember correctly, My petition was previously denied because I had not met my fiance face-to-face within two years. Therefore, after I visited him in Germany I answer question 18 correctly, by stating I had a religous ceremony with the local imam. I did not hide anything, because I honestly thought I was following all the rules.

Goldenheart, please don't reproach yourself, as I said earlier. It's just an unfortunate circumstance. Now, how did all go with the immigration attorney? Does he have a grasp of the case yet?

SHe said the case was quite complicated. However, I do remember her saying that in order for the Imam to perform a legal ceremony he MUST have a notorzed permission letter from my fiance to perform such a ceremony in his absent. My fiance never gave the imam "legal" permission to do so. Therefore she said that she do not see a problem refuting the marriage part.

Also, she read the statement on my original petition that I infact disclosed the religious ceremony. I also had copies of my fiance letters and cards that he sent to me and his "terrible english grammer" was proof of his lack of knowledge of the english language.

She said that the 5 year banned will be hard to remove.

BTW...I'm only sharing my experience because I do not want anyone to make the same mistakes that I have.

And I think you have shown many how little things can present bigger obstacles. As the saying goes, "Inside every black cloud there is a silver lining" perhaps in this case, your situation has allowed others to see what "can" happen, accidentally.

Did the immigration attorney mention anything about marrying, legally, overseas and then filing for a waiver, Section 212, perhaps?

Added: BTW, immigration consultations, initial ones that is, are typically gratis. On something as critical as this, I'd not rest on one attorney's opinion. You have the time, please consult another to gain peace of mind that every stone has been overturned.

Edited June 2, 2006 by diadromous mermaid

[kerewin21 2]

Gosh, this situation has me almost in tears for you Goldenheart! The more I learn about what you've been through the more sad the whole thing seems to me. I didn't realize you had to do your islamic ceremony over the phone. Your situation makes perfect sense to me, but your religious beliefs make it impossible to fit into the mold of the American visa system.

I agree that consulting another immigration lawyer is a good idea. I don't know anything about immigration law, and maybe this is impossible, but it seems like if someone at USCIS could step back and look at all this information they would come to the conclusion that you really didn't break any rules and it was all just a misunderstanding. I hope there is a way to get your case looked at this way.

I will keep you in my thoughts as you go through the difficult next steps.

Sharon

[goldenheart 0]

Did the immigration attorney mention anything about marrying, legally, overseas and then filing for a waiver, Section 212, perhaps?

Yes, but I told her that if I married legally it would contradict the reasoning behind his deportation. Because according to the CBP I'm already married. I also told her that If I decided to say the heck with all of this and marry a USC tomorrow....would I than be considered a polygymist???? Because according to the CBP my islamic marriage is valid. Also, if my islamic marriage is valid...I need to go back to my 2005 Tax Forms and claim him as my dependent. Do you think the IRS would deny me?

[diadromous mermaid 36]

Did the immigration attorney mention anything about marrying, legally, overseas and then filing for a waiver, Section 212, perhaps?

Yes, but I told her that if I married legally it would contradict the reasoning behind his deportation. Because according to the CBP I'm already married. I also told her that If I decided to say the heck with all of this and marry a USC tomorrow....would I than be considered a polygymist???? Because according to the CBP my islamic marriage is valid. Also, if my islamic marriage is valid...I need to go back to my 2005 Tax Forms and claim him as my dependent. Do you think the IRS would deny me?

Look, I could be speaking out of my realm here, but of what importance is it that you contradict the reasoning behind the deportation? If you wish to resolve this and get your fiancé here as soon as is practical, you'll need to focus on solutions that present the best options. I doubt sincerely, and as on off-the-cuff opinion, that you will reverse the deportation. The alien is out of the country, and it rests now with securing another visa to enter, I think. Work would need to be done here to file a waiver to overcome the bar od inadmissibility, as far as I can see. While work would need to be done in Germany to secure a visa, once the bar issue has been addressed.

When did you perform the ritual ceremony on the phone? What date? And when did you file the I-129F?

[morocco4ever 63]

Oh man, this situation is a big mess of yuck! Its amazing how one wrong word said can turn into a huge mess. Thats what happened to us as well at the interview...now we are still waiting over 9 months for another review from the CIS.

Now let me get one thing straight....the ceremony was disclosed with the I-129F? If so, then it was approved with the knowledge of the unofficial marriage. The approval of the I-129F is prima facia, and should not be overturned. Well that is what I heard anyway...hopefully I am not taking it out of context, but it seems to me that if they did know and it was approved then why is it being questioned again?

I can see how this whole mess started...totally innocent on yours and your fiances part. But even if the POE did their job correctly they still refused him a translator. My husband speaks english very well but when it comes to legal documents, well I have a hard time with those myself. Do you think if he had been allowed a translator it would have turned out differently?

Man this just sucks! Maybe you can find a Muslim immigration lawyer. He would know best how to approach this.

[sarah and hicham 3]

Oh man, this situation is a big mess of yuck! Its amazing how one wrong word said can turn into a huge mess. Thats what happened to us as well at the interview...now we are still waiting over 9 months for another review from the CIS.

Now let me get one thing straight....the ceremony was disclosed with the I-129F? If so, then it was approved with the knowledge of the unofficial marriage. The approval of the I-129F is prima facia, and should not be overturned. Well that is what I heard anyway...hopefully I am not taking it out of context, but it seems to me that if they did know and it was approved then why is it being questioned again?

I can see how this whole mess started...totally innocent on yours and your fiances part. But even if the POE did their job correctly they still refused him a translator. My husband speaks english very well but when it comes to legal documents, well I have a hard time with those myself. Do you think if he had been allowed a translator it would have turned out differently?

Man this just sucks! Maybe you can find a Muslim immigration lawyer. He would know best how to approach this.

Can I ask what happened to you at your interview in Morocco? Just curious! Thanks

[morocco4ever 63]

Oh man, this situation is a big mess of yuck! Its amazing how one wrong word said can turn into a huge mess. Thats what happened to us as well at the interview...now we are still waiting over 9 months for another review from the CIS.

Now let me get one thing straight....the ceremony was disclosed with the I-129F? If so, then it was approved with the knowledge of the unofficial marriage. The approval of the I-129F is prima facia, and should not be overturned. Well that is what I heard anyway...hopefully I am not taking it out of context, but it seems to me that if they did know and it was approved then why is it being questioned again?

I can see how this whole mess started...totally innocent on yours and your fiances part. But even if the POE did their job correctly they still refused him a translator. My husband speaks english very well but when it comes to legal documents, well I have a hard time with those myself. Do you think if he had been allowed a translator it would have turned out differently?

Man this just sucks! Maybe you can find a Muslim immigration lawyer. He would know best how to approach this.

Can I ask what happened to you at your interview in Morocco? Just curious! Thanks

Of course you can ask, I am hoping that people learn from our mistakes and this nightmare doesn't have to happen to them.

They asked my husband if he has family here in the US. He told them yes, and ex brother in law and a sister. The consulate asked him why his sister got a divorce, he said "no, she didn't". They said "well you said your ex brother in law". He told them that he is from a different sister. They tried to check into his sister but they couldn't find her in their computer I guess. They asked him if she had arranged our marriage, he told them no, but the damage was done. They beleive that his sister married an american and then divorced him and now I am being paid to bring him over.

Now for what is really true. The ex brother in law was married to a different sister that has never been in the US. He was Moroccan and came to the US I think on a work visa. Divorced his sister and married and American girl. His sister was brought here on a fiance visa over 3 years ago. Her husband is also Moroccan, and came over on a student visa. He now is a US citizen. They are still married. It is nothing but a huge misunderstanding that has cost us an extra 9 months and counting. If only he had known he would have simply said "I have a sister and her husband and a niece". No need to mention an ex...they are no longer a relative. Such a stupid misunderstanding has turned into a nightmare.

What really pisses me off is even if his sister had come here on a fraud marriage what would that have to do with us? My husband had all of the proof necessary to prove our relationship is real but they refused to look at any of it other than our pictures. I can relate to Goldenheart, you try to do things the right way and it comes back and slaps you in the a$$.

[sarah and hicham 3]

Oh man, this situation is a big mess of yuck! Its amazing how one wrong word said can turn into a huge mess. Thats what happened to us as well at the interview...now we are still waiting over 9 months for another review from the CIS.

Now let me get one thing straight....the ceremony was disclosed with the I-129F? If so, then it was approved with the knowledge of the unofficial marriage. The approval of the I-129F is prima facia, and should not be overturned. Well that is what I heard anyway...hopefully I am not taking it out of context, but it seems to me that if they did know and it was approved then why is it being questioned again?

I can see how this whole mess started...totally innocent on yours and your fiances part. But even if the POE did their job correctly they still refused him a translator. My husband speaks english very well but when it comes to legal documents, well I have a hard time with those myself. Do you think if he had been allowed a translator it would have turned out differently?

Man this just sucks! Maybe you can find a Muslim immigration lawyer. He would know best how to approach this.

Can I ask what happened to you at your interview in Morocco? Just curious! Thanks

Of course you can ask, I am hoping that people learn from our mistakes and this nightmare doesn't have to happen to them.

They asked my husband if he has family here in the US. He told them yes, and ex brother in law and a sister. The consulate asked him why his sister got a divorce, he said "no, she didn't". They said "well you said your ex brother in law". He told them that he is from a different sister. They tried to check into his sister but they couldn't find her in their computer I guess. They asked him if she had arranged our marriage, he told them no, but the damage was done. They beleive that his sister married an american and then divorced him and now I am being paid to bring him over.

Now for what is really true. The ex brother in law was married to a different sister that has never been in the US. He was Moroccan and came to the US I think on a work visa. Divorced his sister and married and American girl. His sister was brought here on a fiance visa over 3 years ago. Her husband is also Moroccan, and came over on a student visa. He now is a US citizen. They are still married. It is nothing but a huge misunderstanding that has cost us an extra 9 months and counting. If only he had known he would have simply said "I have a sister and her husband and a niece". No need to mention an ex...they are no longer a relative. Such a stupid misunderstanding has turned into a nightmare.

What really pisses me off is even if his sister had come here on a fraud marriage what would that have to do with us? My husband had all of the proof necessary to prove our relationship is real but they refused to look at any of it other than our pictures. I can relate to Goldenheart, you try to do things the right way and it comes back and slaps you in the a$$.

Oh my, I never knew that. I'm so sorry to hear this even though it isn't new news, but I am so sorry I can't imagine how difficult that must be. I hope that things move soon for you and I am sorry to hear this. I am sorry for you too Goldenheart- I sincerely hope the best for you all.

[iceyspots 0]

That IS #######.... They ask you so many questions because they want to wait for you to say the wrong thing

[zyggy 9]

Is this addressed in the guides/visa faqs at the top of the page? I know my husband and I were religiously married in Egypt prior to doing the K-1, but after the advice from the forum here, we were quite careful to only refer to ourselves as fiances (since we were in the legal sense).

I think that is the issue here. It's not that it's not permitted to have the non-legal ceremony, but referring to your fiancee as your wife is a big no-no.

I agree..

I dont know why the k-1 provisions dont allow for non married husbands and wifes to be fiancee.

that sounded stupid. proble why its not a provison.

I dont get religous marriage not being real. please please explain this. its a hard concept really. why profess your love to god. but call it not real? is it not real because, its not registared? please explain this..

It is not a matter of it being real or not real... it is a matter of if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and quacks like a #######.. it's a duck. Whether it's legal or not...

In many countires, the mere act of the religious ceremony itself makes it a legal and binding marriage... in other countires it does not. The CBP Officer does not have the time to look at all the marriage law all around the world while you're sitting at the POE and split hairs. If someone admits that they have a spouse... then in the eyes of the CBP you're probably legally married.. they don't have the time to find out if you're not...

The CBP made the proper decision. THe OP's fiancee admitted having a spousal relationship... legal or not, that in itself is sufficient grounds to cancel the K-1 visa and deny entry. The CBP does not need proof that you are married to deny the visa, only a reasonable suspicion of a marriage....

[chiquita 0]

Thank you all for your inputs and support in my visa tragedy. The bottom line is, my fiance and I never intended to commit fraud as the deportation documents stated. We only thought that the K1 visa was the right path to take at the time, had we know otherwise we would have surely chosen the right path.

Also, when we were questioned at the interview in Frankfurt the CO asked us if we were muslims and if we did the islamic marriage and I told him the truth, because at that time we were wearing our engagement rings. He started telling us about a young lady(USC) that came for an interview the day prior that had to do the same thing to travel and visit her fiance. He said that he was familiar with the process.

I assumed if I disclosed this islamic ceremony to the CO, as well as , on my petition to the Nebraska Service Center, It would have been ok for the CBP. as well.

If you all remember correctly, My petition was previously denied because I had not met my fiance face-to-face within two years. Therefore, after I visited him in Germany I answer question 18 correctly, by stating I had a religous ceremony with the local imam. I did not hide anything, because I honestly thought I was following all the rules.

Goldenheart,

I feel so bad for you! No matter what I feel the immigration, DOS, and consulates give our loved ones such a difficult time.

We were denied a visa due to the validity of the relationship yet the CO never looked at our proof!!! Never even asked my husband to try and establish we have a valid relationship. I agree there is so much job abuse going on everywhere!

If only the POE had more patience and understanding. I don't have any advice for you since this is a new area for me but you sure are in my prayers. Whether you filed the correct petiton or not, it could have been figured out long before his arrival here in America.

I feel there is so much abuse and PREJUDICE towards immigrants from our governement employees. I am sure it leaves a bad taste in the mouth of all those who suffer from their behaviour. Thats just my experience and my opinion.

I hope you get this resolved asap. No matter what happens, keep your love alive. This next step is the process will certasinly test your love for one another. But real love will endure and it will grow beyond all trials and delays. I know this has happened for us.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

chiquita

Everyone is debating the legality of whether goldenheart relationship is a valid marriage or not...it is obvious to me it is NOT. A religious ceremony is just that...RELIGIOUS. It becomes legal when it is registered with the proper authorities in the respective countries. Religious is before God and legal is legal. Any immigration officer should KNOW the difference. And if an intending immigrant makes a "error" saying his "wife", that officer needs to know his job better and ask more questions to make sure that is exactly what is meant. Officers should know and understand all of the types of people they may come across in their job. To my husband, we were husband and wife after he asked me to marry him and I said yes!! That sealed our commitment to each other. To many times the officers just plain don't care what they are doing to REAL peoples lives. We are real people!!!!!!!!

Just my opinion once again.

chi

Is this addressed in the guides/visa faqs at the top of the page? I know my husband and I were religiously married in Egypt prior to doing the K-1, but after the advice from the forum here, we were quite careful to only refer to ourselves as fiances (since we were in the legal sense).

I think that is the issue here. It's not that it's not permitted to have the non-legal ceremony, but referring to your fiancee as your wife is a big no-no.

I agree..

I dont know why the k-1 provisions dont allow for non married husbands and wifes to be fiancee.

that sounded stupid. proble why its not a provison.

I dont get religous marriage not being real. please please explain this. its a hard concept really. why profess your love to god. but call it not real? is it not real because, its not registared? please explain this..

It is not a matter of it being real or not real... it is a matter of if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and quacks like a #######.. it's a duck. Whether it's legal or not...

In many countires, the mere act of the religious ceremony itself makes it a legal and binding marriage... in other countires it does not. The CBP Officer does not have the time to look at all the marriage law all around the world while you're sitting at the POE and split hairs. If someone admits that they have a spouse... then in the eyes of the CBP you're probably legally married.. they don't have the time to find out if you're not...

The CBP made the proper decision. THe OP's fiancee admitted having a spousal relationship... legal or not, that in itself is sufficient grounds to cancel the K-1 visa and deny entry. The CBP does not need proof that you are married to deny the visa, only a reasonable suspicion of a marriage....

Well he needs to take the time to do his job correctly! why don't they have the time to at least ask a few more questions on the matter to clarify the issue? Gee, would 1 minute be such a stretch to ask when this man came such a long way??? Come on, give me a break!

[pax 0]

I would suggest you read Zyggy's post again.

It is not, in fact, the job of POE officers to be experts in international relations and world religions. They are to protect the borders of this country and ensure that everyone they admit into the country is respecting the laws that govern their type of admission. If Goldenheart's fiance mentioned a wife, what else were they supposed to think?

None of this means that this isn't a heartbreaking situation for Goldenheart, and I personally hope they can sort things out quickly and happily. But the POE officers did their job. A K-1 visa is for an unmarried person. Goldenheart's fiance presented himself as married.

[morocco4ever 63]

I would suggest you read Zyggy's post again.

It is not, in fact, the job of POE officers to be experts in international relations and world religions. They are to protect the borders of this country and ensure that everyone they admit into the country is respecting the laws that govern their type of admission. If Goldenheart's fiance mentioned a wife, what else were they supposed to think?

None of this means that this isn't a heartbreaking situation for Goldenheart, and I personally hope they can sort things out quickly and happily. But the POE officers did their job. A K-1 visa is for an unmarried person. Goldenheart's fiance presented himself as married.

If they aren't required to be experts in international relations and world religions why are they given the power to give him a 5 year ban? Maybe deny entrance yes, pending someone who is an expert reviews the case, but to have the power to place a ban without enough knowledge of the laws is crazy. Unless I am wrong they addressed this in the original I-129F and it was approved by the experts. The approved petition is Prima Facia evidence of his right to hold that visa type.