YESTERDAY MY HONEY SHOULD ARRIVE, but he did not!!!!

[Together4ever 1]

There is much ignorance in this country toward Islam and the apes simply did not understand.

Apes? Ignorance?

Pot, Kettle?

I'm not sure I understand your point here, but if it is what I think it is, I believe you misunderstood me. Perhaps poorly stated on my part, but I think most of those going through this process understand that once in awhile the stress and strains of it can evoke strong opinion. If my words have "upset" anyone, it wasn't my intention.

This is why I'm not coming very much anymore, and most likely will stop altogether.

[kerewin21 2]

There is much ignorance in this country toward Islam and the apes simply did not understand.

Apes? Ignorance?

Pot, Kettle?

I didn't get this one either...

[babybunny 2]

Is this addressed in the guides/visa faqs at the top of the page? I know my husband and I were religiously married in Egypt prior to doing the K-1, but after the advice from the forum here, we were quite careful to only refer to ourselves as fiances (since we were in the legal sense).

I think that is the issue here. It's not that it's not permitted to have the non-legal ceremony, but referring to your fiancee as your wife is a big no-no.

I agree..

I dont know why the k-1 provisions dont allow for non married husbands and wifes to be fiancee.

that sounded stupid. proble why its not a provison.

I dont get religous marriage not being real. please please explain this. its a hard concept really. why profess your love to god. but call it not real? is it not real because, its not registared? please explain this..

[kerewin21 2]

I'm sensitive to the stress that goldenheart and her fiancé are under, and it is terribly sad to see, but they had options and chose K-1. Unfortunately, according to islam custom, perhaps that was not the route that was most appropriate for them. It's just sad all the way around, but through no real fault of the POE agent. He or she was doing their job.

I think maybe that's the moral of the story, for observant muslims the best choice may be to marry and file for the K-3. It's a consideration I hadn't thought of before.

I can't agree more that it's sad all the way around

[Joey559 1]

Oh man, this is probably going to get me in so much trouble. I really feel for Goldie here but I don't think you can have it both ways - you can't have your cake and eat it to when it comes to seperation of church and state and that's what this boils down to IMHO. When someone files for the waiver saying they can't meet because of religious reasons they are asking the gov't to consider religion as a factor. BUT when they want to come into the country after having a religious ceremony they want the gov't to say it doesn't count as a legal ceremony as it's a seperation of church and state when in fact in the country where it took place it IS considered legal. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be mean or awful I can just see where the government stands on the argument of your poor confused fiance saying 'wife'.

I'm really sorry this happened. Good luck getting it resolved ASAP!

Joey

[UmmSqueakster 54]

I dont get religous marriage not being real. please please explain this. its a hard concept really. why profess your love to god. but call it not real? is it not real because, its not registared? please explain this..

Every couple has a different reason for their visa choices. Our marriage was real in the sense that we committed ourselves in front of God to be husband and wife. But, getting legally married in Egypt was very difficult time wise and parentwise (parents would have basically disowned me if we had done anything legally binding). So, because we couldn't in good concious live together before marriage, we were religiously married, but choice to be legally married in the US to honor my parents.

Edited June 1, 2006 by rahma

[Bosco 1]

I have an older version of this book (2001 or 2002) I think, and in it the author says it's a-ok for a couple to be religiously/culturally married and apply for a k-1 visa. The author also says it's ok to let the USCIS/counslate know this during the visa process. Perhaps a few years ago this was ok, since it appears that some immigration lawyers and authors still give that advice.

Is this addressed in the guides/visa faqs at the top of the page? I know my husband and I were religiously married in Egypt prior to doing the K-1, but after the advice from the forum here, we were quite careful to only refer to ourselves as fiances (since we were in the legal sense).

It is my understanding that it cannot be a marriage that would considered "legal" in the country in which it was performed.

We chose not to have the "religious" only ceremony before he arrived. When we married, we did both at the same time. Part of the reason was my husband would not have felt right calling me his "fiance" at the interview or anywhere else he may have been questioned because to him I would have been his "wife". It definitely is going to vary from couple to couple.

Rebecca

Edited June 1, 2006 by rhouni

[diadromous mermaid 36]

There is a moral to this event, and that is to investigate your options carefully and thoroughly to be prepared for any potential pitfalls and consider the pros and cons of expedience versus security if there are particular details to one's case that might make it atypical. I'd like to add one more point for the benefit of goldenheart's fiancé, should he read this forum. He and goldenheart are probably more than appropriately dashed at what has happened. It occurred, due to a mistake, perhaps in goldenheart's fiancé's morality it wasn't a mistake at all, but in the eyes of this government it precluded his entry on the visa he was carrying. In all due fairness to him, however, I think he has enough on his plate that he should not reproach himself for what has happened. The POE agents are trained to be able to identify situations that might suggest improper documentation for the entrant's purpose. It could well be that the agent had seen the file in the computer, where a waiver had been requested. How can we know with any certainty what transpired? It could be that the agent put 2 + 2 together and began a line of questioning that created the circumstance for goldenheart's fiancé to answer as he did. This situation then precipitated a greater tragedy.

The best that they can do is to work together to consult with an immigration expert who is experienced in involuntary departure/expedited removal at POE, and see what, if any, options there are to resolve this as quickly and as painlessly as possible. Best of luck!

[jordanianprincess 0]

I think that no matter how much someone plans or does reseach these things happen. You can't control everything and by no means should the POE officers actions be justified. There are many others that do the job with no prejudice whatsoever. POE officers are not above the Embassy. If the embassy and the DOS have determined that the relationship is valid and have completed all the backround checks, then the person should not be interrogatted at the POE. That is what all those months of waiting are for. He made a simple mistake, I'm sure he was nervous as any of our fiances could have been. Regardless of what Islam says about getting married or engaged or if she filed for a K-1 or K-3 or CR1 why should that matter. They went through the appropriate channels. He was denied a phone call, he was denied a translator, he was denied humane treatment.

I think this has nothing to do with Visa choice, this POE was obviously "looking" for a way to deport this guy for whatever reason.

[kerewin21 2]

JP, I think you have a point. My husband definitely did get interrogated when he came in; they asked him a whole bunch of questions, and he was already really nervous because a bunch of the other Moroccans on the plane had told him they might decide not to let him in once he got to the border control at the airport (which, sadly, is true).

Plus there's the cultural issue; even though Majid and I had nothing even remotely resembling wedding, religious or otherwise, he has called me his wife ever since we decided to get married. I think coming from that background and then feeling interrogated by the agents at the POE make something like this happening not so unlikely.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

We weren't there to be able to say if he was denied any rights. How can you know that he asked for a translator prior to any questioning that ensued? I believe, if memory serves me well from goldenheart's post, her fiancé asked for a translator when he was presented form I860 to sign. That was afterwards, as far as I can see. If there was any impropriety occured, the immigration attorney may be able to enquire and investigate that, but right now we simply do not know from the details shared.

I think, in the interest of not casting a slant on this, it's best that we not begin to play the "prejudice" card.

[~kiyah~ 14]

Thanks Kiya and et. al. for your inputs.

I asked my fiance to fax me all of his documents tomorrow. I also called the Congressman and gave them my inputs on what happened. I will also mail them a copy of the documents, once I get them faxed to me. I called an immigration attorney here in Denver and they wish to speak with me tomorrow. I pray they can help us with this issue. I don't know if I told anyone this or not. I met my honey on May 31, 2006 through his sister. We had planned to marry (legally) on that day. It has been one of our long journey dream. It appears this is another dream that will be shattered. It is painful and it hurts, however, I have to remember the beautiful words of the Quran posted above and have Sabr that Allah will never give me such a wonder man and take him away from me. I am sure, there's something that is needed to be learned by this.

Another bit of personal background information I would like to share. I decided to become a muslim 7 years ago. My entire family reject this. They also was cautious that I would want to marry a middle eastern muslim. With all of the stereotypes out there, who can blame them.

Alhamdulilah, now that they are aware of the deportation issues they view my fiance as an HUMAN BEING...not the sterotypical middle eastern or what other ill-beliefs that have crossed their minds. They see him as a beautiful person and now they know and realized why I fell in love with such a wonderful man. I can't believe it...my mother spoke to him today to tell him that USA is nothing like those mean people in Atlanta. She told him that this country has a pool of sweet and kind people, however, just like anywhere else we have bad apples as well. She told him to keep his head up and this will all be over soon. I LOVE MY MOMMIE!!!

Wasalaam Alaikum...Afwan goldenheart.

I pray all works out for you and this can be sorted out and you are able to get married very soon insh'allah. There is a saying I love:

If Allah brings you to it, He will bring you through it.

In Happy moments, praise Allah.

In Difficult moments, seek Allah.

In Quiet moments, worship Allah.

In Painful moments, trust Allah.

In Every moment, thank Allah.

And yes...do not forget the words from the Quran in my sig below. Have much Sabre...trust in Allah.

~Kiyah~

[babybunny 2]

There is much ignorance in this country toward Islam and the apes simply did not understand.

Apes? Ignorance?

Pot, Kettle?

I'm not sure I understand your point here, but if it is what I think it is, I believe you misunderstood me. Perhaps poorly stated on my part, but I think most of those going through this process understand that once in awhile the stress and strains of it can evoke strong opinion. If my words have "upset" anyone, it wasn't my intention.

This is why I'm not coming very much anymore, and most likely will stop altogether.

dont stop from comming to VJ because, people flame your words. thats crazy. There are good people on here even if they wanna flame you. VJ has alot of good tips and information.

We weren't there to be able to say if he was denied any rights. How can you know that he asked for a translator prior to any questioning that ensued? I believe, if memory serves me well from goldenheart's post, her fiancé asked for a translator when he was presented form I860 to sign. That was afterwards, as far as I can see. If there was any impropriety occured, the immigration attorney may be able to enquire and investigate that, but right now we simply do not know from the details shared.

I think, in the interest of not casting a slant on this, it's best that we not begin to play the "prejudice" card.

I agree!

I dont think it was Prejudice because, marriage was mentioned -while entering on K-1.

thats seems like the bottom line.

[jordanianprincess 0]

We weren't there to be able to say if he was denied any rights. How can you know that he asked for a translator prior to any questioning that ensued? I believe, if memory serves me well from goldenheart's post, her fiancé asked for a translator when he was presented form I860 to sign. That was afterwards, as far as I can see. If there was any impropriety occured, the immigration attorney may be able to enquire and investigate that, but right now we simply do not know from the details shared.

I think, in the interest of not casting a slant on this, it's best that we not begin to play the "prejudice" card.

Based on the events described, I would say he definitly denied rights and so was the USC!!! I am not playing a prejudice card on this at all nor am I putting any kind of slant on it, as a matter of fact, I think you are the one putting the slant on it. You have posted about knowing the visa options, justifying the actions of the POE, etc. This girl obviously came here for support, I"m sure she is aware of the mistake her fiance made, and to wonder of the choice she made over a fiance or marriage visa is pointless now.

When I choose to go the fiance visa route, it was because at the time I made that decision it was the fastest way to go. Well things changed, I did my research, but I can't control the events that happen beyond that.

ON ANOTHER NOTE: (I was not going to say this, but after I saw Jean's comment about not coming back to VJ, I'm gonna speak up)

If this happened to my fiance, I'm not sure I would post anything regarding it on VJ due to the lack of support I have been seeing here lately. There are several people that no longer come to this forum, it has completly died down. There are certain people here that are extremely supportive and I think we all know who they are. There are some people here that just can't be happy for anyone else. The bottom line is that when someone is going through the kind of pain that goldenheart and her fiance are dealing with now, just be supportive. Plain and simple.

[babybunny 2]

I dont get religous marriage not being real. please please explain this. its a hard concept really. why profess your love to god. but call it not real? is it not real because, its not registared? please explain this..

Every couple has a different reason for their visa choices. Our marriage was real in the sense that we committed ourselves in front of God to be husband and wife. But, getting legally married in Egypt was very difficult time wise and parentwise (parents would have basically disowned me if we had done anything legally binding). So, because we couldn't in good concious live together before marriage, we were religiously married, but choice to be legally married in the US to honor my parents.

must be a culture thing.

your parents would have disowned you for your marriage being legal. then you legally married in the US to honor my parents ?