YESTERDAY MY HONEY SHOULD ARRIVE, but he did not!!!!

[UmmSqueakster 54]

[ohiobuck 0]

The bottom line is that when someone is going through the kind of pain that goldenheart and her fiance are dealing with now, just be supportive. Plain and simple.

We should support, but we shouldn't ignore the facts so the couples dealing with the issue can see the truth and figure out the best way to fix them. And other couples should learn from this problems so they can avoid the same or similiar problems. If we ONLY give support without productive help and advice we would be a disservice to the whole groups well being and the couple having the problem. This couple surely wouldn't want another couple to experience their problems, unless they are not good people and they want others to suffer because they are suffering and that is just wrong.

My heart goes out for goldenheart and her fiance and I pray this can be overcome soon. From the messages she has sent, she sounds like a wonderful lady and has a good heart. It's good she knows the problem now so she can try and get it fixed soon, but I wish she could've done her homework on K1 Visa's so she could've talked to her fiancee so he would've understood what not to say to avoid this problem. But hind sight for them is past, but they need to work in the future to get this fixed and I pray it is fixed soon.

And I pray others learn they have to follow the Immigration laws and don't assume they have 100% rights to come into the country even if they have problems. Because it's the immigration officials jobs to catch these mistakes and to follow the proper procedures even if we don't like them personally. So in short do not make mistakes and know what you need to say and do for whatever case you have and do not mess up because in the end you can only blame yourself. Because the immigration officer can't be treating your mistake any differently for you vs. someone else because no one is better than another and they have a job to do. The law is the law, so be careful at all aspects of this immigration process, even after your love one is in the country and you still are adjusting status. Don't be fools, learn from others sad stories and even if you don't hear about an event happening know the rules and use the brain God gave us to not mess up.

Paula

[morocco4ever 63]

GoldenHeart, just a thought. I did a search on a legal marrige in Islam. I don't know how your religious ceremony was performed, but maybe it would help to read this link.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satelli...d=1119503546572

It does say in there for the marriage to be legal you need the legal papers. The point I am trying to make is that it could be beneficial if you have uninterested parties that were at the ceremony document how the ceremony was performed, Then take in some form of proof, possibly from the Imam, that this is not going to be considered a legal marriage.

I don't know if I am helping, or just speaking out of my a$$, but I want so much to help.

[ohiobuck 0]

GoldenHeart, just a thought. I did a search on a legal marrige in Islam. I don't know how your religious ceremony was performed, but maybe it would help to read this link.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satelli...d=1119503546572

It does say in there for the marriage to be legal you need the legal papers. The point I am trying to make is that it could be beneficial if you have uninterested parties that were at the ceremony document how the ceremony was performed, Then take in some form of proof, possibly from the Imam, that this is not going to be considered a legal marriage.

I don't know if I am helping, or just speaking out of my a$$, but I want so much to help.

Trish,

I think this is a great way to come up with proof that would explain what happened and hopefully get this whole problem reversed fast so she can have her fiancee in the USA with her soon. This is exactly the kind of sharing I was getting at and why I appreciate this group.

I pray it works!

God Bless,

Paula

[maryandatif 0]

UPDATE!!!!

They then told him to sign a paper to go back to Germany.

Could this paper been because the K-1 Visa is treated as a non-immigrant visa? Or K-3 for that matter-----my thinking on this is because the spouse/fiancee has to fill out the non-immigrant visa application (DS-156)

But ...either way...i am sooo sorry for this....and you both will be in my prayers.

Mary K.

[goldenheart 0]

I don't know if I am helping, or just speaking out of my a$$, but I want so much to help.

Speaking out of your what???? This is the first time I've seen it spelled this way. HAHAHA. I really needed that laugh. THANKS!!!

Thanks for the website!!!

[zyggy 9]

I don't know if I am helping, or just speaking out of my a$$, but I want so much to help.

Speaking out of your what???? This is the first time I've seen it spelled this way. HAHAHA. I really needed that laugh. THANKS!!!

Thanks for the website!!!

Seeing what I read.. it appears that the CBP agent was tipped off by seeing a wedding band. Basically by he was seeing a wedding band that indicated marriage, but the alien was stating that he was not married.

Actions speak louder than words. The act of wearing the band outweighed what he was saying, because people will lie to see their own ends... At that point in time, CBP was going to do what ever it took to find out the truth... When he fianlly admitted that he was married (even though it was not a legal ceremony), the damage was done.. He was now caught in a material misrepresentation...

I witnessed a very similar circumstance when I was a CBP agent. Some came to the POE with a K-1 visa, stated they were not married, but had a wedding band on. At that time, the officer and his supervisor got her to admit that she did have a wedding ceremony. She mistakenly assumed that a religious wedding in Canada was not a legal ceremony... (it is). But even if it wasn't, it wouldn't have mattered. She still would have been sent back home...

[chiquita 0]

I don't know if I am helping, or just speaking out of my a$$, but I want so much to help.

Speaking out of your what???? This is the first time I've seen it spelled this way. HAHAHA. I really needed that laugh. THANKS!!!

Thanks for the website!!!

Seeing what I read.. it appears that the CBP agent was tipped off by seeing a wedding band. Basically by he was seeing a wedding band that indicated marriage, but the alien was stating that he was not married.

Actions speak louder than words. The act of wearing the band outweighed what he was saying, because people will lie to see their own ends... At that point in time, CBP was going to do what ever it took to find out the truth... When he fianlly admitted that he was married (even though it was not a legal ceremony), the damage was done.. He was now caught in a material misrepresentation...

I witnessed a very similar circumstance when I was a CBP agent. Some came to the POE with a K-1 visa, stated they were not married, but had a wedding band on. At that time, the officer and his supervisor got her to admit that she did have a wedding ceremony. She mistakenly assumed that a religious wedding in Canada was not a legal ceremony... (it is). But even if it wasn't, it wouldn't have mattered. She still would have been sent back home...

That is sooooooooo stupid...a religious ceremony is not legal. A catch 22 situation and the CBP gets to decide the law!!!!! If she filed a K3 she would have had to provide a legal marriage certificate, but since it was religious only, there is none. And the USA is supposed to be the best country in the world yet they can't figure out the difference between legal and relgious ceremonies?? What happened to separation between religion and state??? GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ LOUISE

[JenT 0]

...If she filed a K3 she would have had to provide a legal marriage certificate, but since it was religious only, there is none.

There most certainly is. A marriage license is required and the marriage certificate is signed by the minister/priest/whomever is officiating the ceremony.

As far as your suggestion that a religious ceremony is not valid.... in the yes of many who believe, it is the only one that DOES matter.

[pax 0]

That is sooooooooo stupid...a religious ceremony is not legal. A catch 22 situation and the CBP gets to decide the law!!!!! If she filed a K3 she would have had to provide a legal marriage certificate, but since it was religious only, there is none. And the USA is supposed to be the best country in the world yet they can't figure out the difference between legal and relgious ceremonies?? What happened to separation between religion and state??? GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ LOUISE

In many countries, religious ceremonies are, in fact, treated as de facto legal ceremonies.

The U.S. is not "supposed to be the best country in the world," but as a sovereign nation it does have the power to police its own borders. And the CBP is not, as I mentioned earlier, charged with distinguishing types of wedding ceremonies. If they suspect that a legally binding wedding ceremony, OF ANY TYPE, has taken place, they have the power to deny entry to the K-1 holder. Again, religious ceremonies are legally binding in many countries, which is why Zyggy and others here have often advised K-1 holders to have religious blessings or ceremonies AFTER a legal marriage in the States on the K-1.

[djcess 0]

OH MY GOD! THAT SUCKS BIG TIME! HANG IN THERE...

[maya62 7]

I hope everyone will take from this that it doesn't really matter how forthright, honest and careful one is at the petition stage or at the Consulate... at the POE you have to behave, dress, speak like someone who is a fiance(e) by American standards. It's not fair (and I don't see why it would be that difficult to create some kind of notation on a visa if a couple has had a religious ceremony that was disclosed at the petition or interview stage), but for now, this is how it is.

Maybe there should be some sort of permanent warning on VJ about this (or maybe it's there and I never saw it). It has come up over and over again. The issue caused me a fair amount of angst last year because we did something similar. That NOLO book does say it's no problem to have a religious ceremony, which is clearly untrue. Maybe there could be a pinned thread about some of the very avoidable pitfalls that have occurred, especially if it has happened to more than one VJ member...

Oh, and there is a USCIS petition denial/appeal in their archives about a couple that had a ceremony but no paperwork who were denied a K3 based on no documentation (ie, license or certificate) and then denied a K1 based on the ceremony they had had, or something like that. I may be able to locate it if anyone's interested, or maybe someone has a link handy. Anyhow, the ruling was that, if the couple's "marriage" was not legal for the purposes of a K3, then their K1 petition can not then be denied on that basis.

Best wishes to Goldenheart in getting this straightened out. If I were in your shoes, I would be contacting both of my Senators at this point.

Maya

[Together4ever 1]

As usual, a lot of speculation, controvery and opinion. The following is a link I found that explains this situation in EGYPT and how it is viewed. There have been opinions expressed by non-ME/NA petitioners here and they do not understand "orfy" marriage in the ME/NA. Perhaps this will clear things up. Now, I do not know if the same applies in any other country, but it does apply in Egypt.

http://members.cox.net/ahmedheissa/marriage.htm

I would invite anyone to do further investigation into this topic. I do agree that for the sake of not running into any confusion at POE, that the beneficiary present himself clearly as a one who is legally unmarried.

This link has nothing to do with personal ethics or opinons. It states the legal and official position on orfy marriage in Egypt.

[pax 0]

That was an interesting read, Just_waiting, thanks.

To state that there is a possibility of non-legal common-law marriage in some Islamic cultures, however, is to entirely miss the point of Goldenheart's situation. Whether or not the ceremony she and her sweetie arranged was legal or not, her sweetie presented as married to CBP officers when he was not supposed to be married. As far as I can tell, this, unfortunately for GH and her sweetie, closes the case.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

That is sooooooooo stupid...a religious ceremony is not legal. A catch 22 situation and the CBP gets to decide the law!!!!! If she filed a K3 she would have had to provide a legal marriage certificate, but since it was religious only, there is none. And the USA is supposed to be the best country in the world yet they can't figure out the difference between legal and relgious ceremonies?? What happened to separation between religion and state??? GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ LOUISE

It's not really stupid at all. The onus is upon the alien to overcome any premuption on the part of the CBP. In this case that was not possible, because the fiancé also referred to his US petitioner as a wife. Unfortunately, it still appears that there are some that don't understand that the selection of the visa sought should be matched to one's particular needs. The fiancé visa is perhaps the quicker of the three, but it provides some inherent conflict with parties whose religious beliefs require some sort of commitment in the form of a marriage to be made prior to meeting alone.

Edited June 5, 2006 by diadromous mermaid