Something has been on my mind...what do you all think?

[SimoAndYvette 0]

Hi All! I have not posted on this forum before...only in general.

There has been something on my mind and heart for about three weeks now....and instead of trying to work it out myself...thought I would talk to you all about it.

Something has become abundantly clear...each time I have spoke to anyone regarding our case - they have NO idea we have this site...this place where we go to be counseled, instructed, comforted, encouraged and so on. I always mention it, because I want the "powers that be" to know that there are other situations other cases out there that are not being handled in the manner in which they insist is happening.

When I spoke to my Senator's aide, and again the immigration attorney and again the many times speaking to the USCIS and NVC personnel...they had no clue what I was referring to.

So this is the idea that has been forming in my head..the idea I cannot seem to let go of:

Many times I have seen advice given to others to contact their local political officer; lately it even seems as though many family members, fellow employees, employers and friends are doing it on their behalf.

Why not do it for one another also? When we see something happen that needs additional help, lets back each other up....like we do here. We can back up the petitioner's request with one also...not only to their senator, but copy ours, as well.

We have a voice, we have a right to discuss the injustices that are taking place.

Look at martiniolive, brnidokiegurl, toreecabral and all the many others......

We may not be able to march together to each Capital's steps together, but we CAN do it via this site, out commitment to the same cause (being reunited with our loved ones), and for one another!

I do not have it all worked out in my mind, but I would love to hear what some of you think!

Okay....stepping off my soap box now!

Thanks for listening to the ventings of a wife who has been apart from her husband for too long now (see my interview review of the Casa Consulate) and to someone who is just totally saddened by everyone's similar circumstances!

Have a great day everyone!

Yvette

[morocco4ever 63]

I certainly see what you are saying, and it is a noble idea. But we are such a small percentage that it would have no push behind it. And one thing we all learn is that the consulates are pretty much indestructable. Trust me, when Me, Chiquita, Kiya, and the rest were denied we chanted the same thing. To be totally honest, by the time we get to our turn to get the visa approved we are totally and completely drained. It has been over 3 years since our denial, and almost 2 years since he got the visa.I STILL am traumatized by this to the point that I don't feel capable of working to this capacity again. I come here to offer advice to those in need because of the fact that I don't want anyone to ever feel as lost as we did for months, but to go to this length. I just couldn't do it.

If anyone does feel they can accomplish anything I applaud you.

[nunyab 0]

To be honost I don't feel this consulate is being held to any sorts of standards and then by whom??? I want to know who is in charge of these consulates and what these "Standards are" I've been just steamed over all of this and being there myself tryng to get answers as an American citizen in front of them I am still treated less than American.

I was in the service and worked with governement agencies i am amazed or just don't see what the protocal and SOP are.. it appears each consulate is ran on their own SOPs I even tried contacting my pals at DOD these consualtes are the "golden goose" if you will of job placements and yet noone knows anyone in them. Strange

What can we do??? how about getting the person that overseas this consualte and create a petition of those who question their practices and sign it pleading that a oversight counsel be established and an investiagtion done???

Just a name and email is all that's needed.

ok sorry Yvette i am with you girl.

[Martiniolive 0]

I swear I thought this yesterday too. In my desperation I told my husband maybe we should put our petition number on VJ and tell everyone to help haha or everyone fax the congress and senators with complaints about the poor and flawed system at the consulate levels. I mean they should have to have a degree in psychology (sp?) or some set rules of what they want from us exactly. I mean if they want notorised papers from witnesses or family..tell us so we do it the first time. Or if they only want a petition after we are together 2+ years...tell us that so we don't even exhaust ourselves! Just tell us what the bleep you want so we do it. They make it so vague on what proof of relationship like it's a cat and mouse game.

I know they want to wead out the faulse petitions but with modern technology why not just use a lie detector? And I think both spouses should be at bthe interview....than they can both be questioned even if seperately.... You knoe they even asked my husband why he did not look for a girl in france or spain or a boy even? What the heck is the point of that? It's about us not his or my choice in a spouse and if he's muslim and I am not what is it to them? If we are cool with it thats all that should matter......It's humiliating.

To be honost I don't feel this consulate is being held to any sorts of standards and then by whom??? I want to know who is in charge of these consulates and what these "Standards are" I've been just steamed over all of this and being there myself tryng to get answers as an American citizen in front of them I am still treated less than American.

I was in the service and worked with governement agencies i am amazed or just don't see what the protocal and SOP are.. it appears each consulate is ran on their own SOPs I even tried contacting my pals at DOD these consualtes are the "golden goose" if you will of job placements and yet noone knows anyone in them. Strange

What can we do??? how about getting the person that overseas this consualte and create a petition of those who question their practices and sign it pleading that a oversight counsel be established and an investiagtion done???

Just a name and email is all that's needed.

ok sorry Yvette i am with you girl.

To be honost I don't feel this consulate is being held to any sorts of standards and then by whom??? I want to know who is in charge of these consulates and what these "Standards are" I've been just steamed over all of this and being there myself tryng to get answers as an American citizen in front of them I am still treated less than American.

I was in the service and worked with governement agencies i am amazed or just don't see what the protocal and SOP are.. it appears each consulate is ran on their own SOPs I even tried contacting my pals at DOD these consualtes are the "golden goose" if you will of job placements and yet noone knows anyone in them. Strange

What can we do??? how about getting the person that overseas this consualte and create a petition of those who question their practices and sign it pleading that a oversight counsel be established and an investiagtion done???

Just a name and email is all that's needed.

ok sorry Yvette i am with you girl.

I jokingly told my husband tonight that if I have to go live in morocco I will apply for a job at the consulate.....Can you imagine LOL I am like monica on friends...I could get some stuff done!

[SimoAndYvette 0]

Rajaa...I agree....a petition and/or additional measure is definitely necessary. In any other government agency there IS a person who is higher...has more authority. Why is it not in this case? How do these two women continue to get away with this? It is so obvious that they have a personal criteria also.

I really think if we all start doing this...one person start a thread, give the contact information to THEIR senator, then we copy our's, as well, we will start something. Imagine....one person sends an email to their senator...then a bunch of us back it up, with our support and familiar story. Someone....Somewhere should notice this.

Martiniolive, whatever you want me to do, let me know....forward your senator's contact information to me, and I will send them an email on your behalf, as well.

I have only (did I really just say ONLY) been through this for one year...so I cannot imagine what those of you, who have been dealing with this for years feels right now. However, I think this is all of our fight...if we read the stories...look in the mirror...we see one face...one heart ache....and we all have cried the same tears.

We have done nothing wrong - only fell in love with someone from another country...we should not be punished for this.

~Proud to be Mrs. Said El Moujahid

I swear I thought this yesterday too. In my desperation I told my husband maybe we should put our petition number on VJ and tell everyone to help haha or everyone fax the congress and senators with complaints about the poor and flawed system at the consulate levels. I mean they should have to have a degree in psychology (sp?) or some set rules of what they want from us exactly. I mean if they want notorised papers from witnesses or family..tell us so we do it the first time. Or if they only want a petition after we are together 2+ years...tell us that so we don't even exhaust ourselves! Just tell us what the bleep you want so we do it. They make it so vague on what proof of relationship like it's a cat and mouse game.

I know they want to wead out the faulse petitions but with modern technology why not just use a lie detector? And I think both spouses should be at bthe interview....than they can both be questioned even if seperately.... You knoe they even asked my husband why he did not look for a girl in france or spain or a boy even? What the heck is the point of that? It's about us not his or my choice in a spouse and if he's muslim and I am not what is it to them? If we are cool with it thats all that should matter......It's humiliating.

To be honost I don't feel this consulate is being held to any sorts of standards and then by whom??? I want to know who is in charge of these consulates and what these "Standards are" I've been just steamed over all of this and being there myself tryng to get answers as an American citizen in front of them I am still treated less than American.

I was in the service and worked with governement agencies i am amazed or just don't see what the protocal and SOP are.. it appears each consulate is ran on their own SOPs I even tried contacting my pals at DOD these consualtes are the "golden goose" if you will of job placements and yet noone knows anyone in them. Strange

What can we do??? how about getting the person that overseas this consualte and create a petition of those who question their practices and sign it pleading that a oversight counsel be established and an investiagtion done???

Just a name and email is all that's needed.

ok sorry Yvette i am with you girl.

To be honost I don't feel this consulate is being held to any sorts of standards and then by whom??? I want to know who is in charge of these consulates and what these "Standards are" I've been just steamed over all of this and being there myself tryng to get answers as an American citizen in front of them I am still treated less than American.

I was in the service and worked with governement agencies i am amazed or just don't see what the protocal and SOP are.. it appears each consulate is ran on their own SOPs I even tried contacting my pals at DOD these consualtes are the "golden goose" if you will of job placements and yet noone knows anyone in them. Strange

What can we do??? how about getting the person that overseas this consualte and create a petition of those who question their practices and sign it pleading that a oversight counsel be established and an investiagtion done???

Just a name and email is all that's needed.

ok sorry Yvette i am with you girl.

I jokingly told my husband tonight that if I have to go live in morocco I will apply for a job at the consulate.....Can you imagine LOL I am like monica on friends...I could get some stuff done!

[MrsAmera 41]

From working with the State Department on a sponsored program I can tell you that the CO's in charge of the consulates are basically on their own. There is some oversight from higher ups at the US State Department however it is not mutually exclusive. Also those people in power at the SD are political appointees - they are towing the administrations line. In a meeting I was in a few months ago with the Deputy Secretary of State I can tell you it was not "fun" their lack of regard and interest in the policy of the day is the driving force behind what gets done. As I sat in that meeting and saw how things were twisted and contrived I began to lose a lot of hope. But do know that there are people who work there because they truly want to make a difference. I know them, they do exist!!

Also a thought to keep in mind and if I get flamed so be it. They are there to do a job - they are not there to make us happy all the time. There are people that take advantage of the system. There are people who commit fraud. It's their JOB to find those people. If you and your SO have a legitimate relationship then there isn't anything to be worried about it - it will come through one way or another. Also it is not a right of ours to marry someone from another country and have them come to the US it is a privelage. If the government believes that the non-citizen does not meet the standards that have been set then they have the right to terminate the application regardless of whether you married or not. In the end they can always say "well then move to Morocco, or move to wherever". It sucks, I know it sucks it's a long and painful process but it really helps to put it in perspective. There are millions and millions of people trying to enter the United States everyday. To the government your spouse is a person, but just one of millions no more deserving admission than the next. The burden of proof exists on us to prove our relationship and their right to come. Sort of like a job interview - you have to prove you're the right candidate.

SimoandYvette - i read your experience and I agree it sucks - but it seems that they've just put you into AP and not denied your application. The interview may have been hard but it seems that things will work out. AP is standard and I think just about everyone that ends up on AP eventually gets through.

[morocco4ever 63]

The burden of proof exists on us to prove our relationship and their right to come. Sort of like a job interview - you have to prove you're the right candidate.

I'm sorry, did you really just go there? Do you have any idea how many of us DID have proof, and they refused to look at it? You really hit a nerve on that one. What a slap in the face to me, Martiniolive, Brnk, Chi, Kiya, etc. You don't know our specifics, so perhaps you should think about that before you accuse people of not being prepared.

Yes it is their job, but they suck at it. How many make it through first time just to leave their spouse at the first opportunity? How many of us that were initially denied are still with their spouse? Go take a look at the divorce forum and you will see how many made it through easy, then after they get their GC all of a sudden their spouse has changed. Coincidence?

Yes their job is a hard one, but if it isn't working they need to face the fact and find a new strategy.

[MrsAmera 41]

If you took what I said to mean that any of you didn't have proof I apologize because that's not what I said. I was speaking broadly and not pointing to any of you individually. I've been here a long time and have seen plenty of cases come and go and actually do know a lot of what's going on (as far as what has been posted as I can't go on much else other than that).

I'm trying to offer you a different perspective from the inside. It doesn't do any good to stand back and get angry instead of trying to understand how it works. You do have to play their game, yes it's not fair but that's the way it is, that is how the government works. I do agree that if you have proof to show them they should take it and everyone should have the opportunity to present their case. I also agree that there are interviewers who just don't do their job, which is the case in any job.

There is recourse if you are treated poorly. Have your SO prepared to take the interviewers name at the beginning of the interview in case it goes bad. If it does, contact the State Department and file a complaint both on the phone, email and paper mail. Send both emails and paper letters to your Senators, Representatives, the State Department, the Secretary of State, the Deputy Secretary of State, the CO of the consulate you filed at and the interviewer themselves. Let them see all your CC's. Have hard evidence stated in plain unemotional terms. Saying "it's just not fair, he didn't get a fair shot," won't work. You have to give examples stated directly and clearly.

I'm sorry if my view is not popular - I'm sorry that some of you have had a difficult time. I simply am trying to offer you additional information and a viewpoint to help your chances in the future.

ETA: Yes there are relationships who had to wait and had difficulty and are still together - but there are a lot that aren't too. Personally I don't think the length of wait has any correlation with the likely success of the marriage.

Edited October 15, 2008 by MrsAmera

[morocco4ever 63]

If you took what I said to mean that any of you didn't have proof I apologize because that's not what I said. I was speaking broadly and not pointing to any of you individually. I've been here a long time and have seen plenty of cases come and go and actually do know a lot of what's going on (as far as what has been posted as I can't go on much else other than that).

I'm trying to offer you a different perspective from the inside. It doesn't do any good to stand back and get angry instead of trying to understand how it works. You do have to play their game, yes it's not fair but that's the way it is, that is how the government works. I do agree that if you have proof to show them they should take it and everyone should have the opportunity to present their case. I also agree that there are interviewers who just don't do their job, which is the case in any job.

There is recourse if you are treated poorly. Have your SO prepared to take the interviewers name at the beginning of the interview in case it goes bad. If it does, contact the State Department and file a complaint both on the phone, email and paper mail. Send both emails and paper letters to your Senators, Representatives, the State Department, the Secretary of State, the Deputy Secretary of State, the CO of the consulate you filed at and the interviewer themselves. Let them see all your CC's. Have hard evidence stated in plain unemotional terms. Saying "it's just not fair, he didn't get a fair shot," won't work. You have to give examples stated directly and clearly.

I'm sorry if my view is not popular - I'm sorry that some of you have had a difficult time. I simply am trying to offer you additional information and a viewpoint to help your chances in the future.

ETA: Yes there are relationships who had to wait and had difficulty and are still together - but there are a lot that aren't too. Personally I don't think the length of wait has any correlation with the likely success of the marriage.

I actually agreed with you on most of your post. And most of your comments you were spot on. Yes we do have to play their game, and this how we eventually won. I just took offense to the assumption that those that were denied were not prepared. My husband had everything with him at the interview that eventually won our case. The only thing in question that we didn't have was proof that his ex brother in law that was married to a different sister than the one that is here. We could have had that proof by the next day. Was it necessary to deny us for that? Why not just ask for that proof? Even if his sister had married someone fraudulently what would that have to do with our case? This wasn't a case of being unprepared, this was a case of abuse of power.

I do disagree that there is a recourse for those of us that are treated poorly at the consulate. We did it all, and not one return phone call or email. Just blown off. The closest thing that could come to some sort of resolution was when we contacted the Ombudsman, and they did act on our behalf, but that was with the USCIS. The consulates are a part of the DOS and are untouchable. We tried everything, and nothing worked. If they would only set up an obudsman for the consulates, but I have a feeling that will never happen.

[allousa 1]

Having been through "the system" for several years, I have been at the point some of you are now. I also do have to agree with what Amera said.

I know that when a couple is going through this process, everything feels personal. My husband and I were apart for 4 years because of lost documents and ridiculous waits for interviews and processing. The sad truth is that each application is just a number.

It's easier now to look back on it with this perspective and I can totally understand the pain and suffering that many feel going through this process now.

Unfortunately, I am defeated when it comes to challenging the process. Especially after what happened to my FIL, that some of you may remember, we have met nothing but governmental brick walls and the agency of Homeland Security that has no culpability.

I definitely don't deny that there are some Consulates where some "abuse of power" may happen. But Amera is right in that you must present non-emotional facts to superiors in order to achieve some type of response.

My best advice is to just weather the storm. I wouldn't wish this process on anyone because it's a nightmare.

Edited October 15, 2008 by allousa

[Sandrila 1]

Thank you Morocco 4 Ever

definitely struck a nerve here. This is such a pathetic process and like most of you, they looked at the evidence we presented, took the time to carefully gather and spent money making copies and sending that stuff to our SO.

It is truly a desparaging and heartwretching experience. Just relying of faith of GOD and the blind faith of these people who are in control of our future.

I never thought I'd be in this kind of position.

Thank you all here on VJ who help to keep me strong, we will prevail!!!!!!!!!

[MrsAmera 41]

I do agree. There are major issues at the DOS internally conflicts between those appointees, careerists and contractors. Unfortunately the apointees hold the most power to do anything and sadly to say they really dont' care. I've found that careerists are there because they want to do something good and not just the glory. I will agree that it is incredibly difficult to get anything done in DOS without personal contacts, which are hard to come by too. Although you might not have seen tagible results to your inquiry, which is a shame because at least a staffer could have sent back a letter to say "hey we read your letter, we apologize". But at least you can cover your bases you know what I mean? If it slides up the ladder and you get to a point of appeal if denied you have copies to say "look I contacted all these people and didn't hear boo."

Unfortunately it's all too complicated and a pain. Washington DC is another planet not just another city!

[Sandrila 1]

so you dont think that being separated from your loved one, whether married or engaged, would take it's toll on a relationship?????

I think even the best, most solid of foundations could surely be shaken a little by this kind of turbulence.

We are only humans not super humans

and certainly to go to the extremes that most of us have been forced to persue is too EXHAUSTING and even DEGRADING to a point of having to beg and plead

I think alot is easy to say when you have your loved one with you.

by mistake I just want to correct myself...we submitted all the proof that WAS NOT LOOKED AT by the CO at the time of 2 interviews...I can only assume a marriage certificate is sufficient after an online courtship

Edited October 15, 2008 by sandrila

[MrsAmera 41]

No I said that I don't think because you have been seperated it makes your marriage more likely to succeed. I think some marriages succeed and some fail. Not dependant on whether you've been apart or you've been together.

Although my SO is with me now, we went through the wait too. It's not as though I've not experienced what you're dealing with.

[allousa 1]

My opinion of the Immigration System and it's process is that it is archaic and broken. I also think that the applications that are submitted have overwhelmed a system that simply cannot process them. I have always said why can't a system be set in place much like Fed Ex or UPS uses and assign a file ONE number that can be tracked much like a package.

Hicham's file had is Alien Number at one point, then a number assigned by the NVC, that changed when it got to the Consulate in Morocco because I was told it was an I-601 waiver that would go through Homeland Security in Rome. We actually have 3 storage boxes of his paperwork for his Immigration case.

IMO, the problem is much larger than foreign Consulates. You have offices, like DoD and Homeland Security and NVC, that don't always link their info or have a centralized computer system. I don't know now how the system could begin to be overhauled and updated...and the cost!

I put this right up there with the state of our economy and health care. Can it be fixed? I just don't know.