Military question

[slim 1,525]

OK.... several issues here....

1. If he goes to Russia, for any reason, he is subject to military service.

2. If he joins the U.S. military, it's highly unlikely that he will go to Russia for any reason other than personal travel, and in that instance, see above. If for some reason he is sent to Russia on official military business it's highly unlikely the U.S. military would release him to Russian authorities. Usually, in cases such as this, individuals with "issues" in the host country are either not shipped to that country or are given some kind of paperwork through host country authorities allowing them to enter without being subjected to service. Either way, there are VERY VERY FEW instances of U.S. military folks going to Russia.

3. He is Russian, and will be Russian, until he can be naturalized. That said, while in the military, on official military business, he is considered (by Geneva Conventions and other international laws) American. However, he cannot travel internationally while NOT on official business as an American. He is still Russian.

Basically, while doing military stuff, he'll be American but while going back home, even if on leave from the military, he'll be Russian. In the extreme event that he were, say, a Marine guard at the Embassy (would never happen anyway due to security concerns) in Moscow, he'd be covered as an American and untouchable by the Russian authorities. However, if he were passing through Russia on the way back from Afghanistan and had a couple days layover, he would be OK if he stayed with his unit. If he ventured out to go see grandma, he would be subject to Russian military service.

All that said, I think the military is a great idea and it will fast-track him to U.S. citizenship if he so desires and that will guarantee that he never needs to do Russian military service provided he uses the blue passport and visa until he's old enough to be exempted. It's also very unlikely that he will ever go to Russia once in the military and while actively serving.

[eekee 182]

OK.... several issues here....

1. If he goes to Russia, for any reason, he is subject to military service.

2. If he joins the U.S. military, it's highly unlikely that he will go to Russia for any reason other than personal travel, and in that instance, see above. If for some reason he is sent to Russia on official military business it's highly unlikely the U.S. military would release him to Russian authorities. Usually, in cases such as this, individuals with "issues" in the host country are either not shipped to that country or are given some kind of paperwork through host country authorities allowing them to enter without being subjected to service. Either way, there are VERY VERY FEW instances of U.S. military folks going to Russia.

3. He is Russian, and will be Russian, until he can be naturalized. That said, while in the military, on official military business, he is considered (by Geneva Conventions and other international laws) American. However, he cannot travel internationally while NOT on official business as an American. He is still Russian.

Basically, while doing military stuff, he'll be American but while going back home, even if on leave from the military, he'll be Russian. In the extreme event that he were, say, a Marine guard at the Embassy (would never happen anyway due to security concerns) in Moscow, he'd be covered as an American and untouchable by the Russian authorities. However, if he were passing through Russia on the way back from Afghanistan and had a couple days layover, he would be OK if he stayed with his unit. If he ventured out to go see grandma, he would be subject to Russian military service.

All that said, I think the military is a great idea and it will fast-track him to U.S. citizenship if he so desires and that will guarantee that he never needs to do Russian military service provided he uses the blue passport and visa until he's old enough to be exempted. It's also very unlikely that he will ever go to Russia once in the military and while actively serving.

I don't think he CAN use a blue passport/visa without formally renouncing his Russian citizenship. Russia won't recognize him as a US citizen and vice versa unless he formally renounces his Russian citizenship. If you have Russian citizenship, you can't get a visa as a US citizen.

[NavarreMan 10]

Thanks A I S, slim and eekee,

That was the sort of info I was looking for. Victor likes to think of himself as a patriot but unless he really wants to join the Russian army I don't see any trips home for the next few years. I don't think he'll go for the renouncing his citizenship route. I am fully aware of the security issues and have discussed them with the recruiters. Funny thing, the job he is best suited for (linguistics) is probably impossible to get into due to the clearance issue.

[slim 1,525]

Funny thing, the job he is best suited for (linguistics) is probably impossible to get into due to the clearance issue.

No, that's not true at all. They'll definitely make him a linguist..... in Farsi!

[NavarreMan 10]

Funny thing, the job he is best suited for (linguistics) is probably impossible to get into due to the clearance issue.

No, that's not true at all. They'll definitely make him a linguist..... in Farsi!

"Military Intelligence"

[A_I_S 0]

I don't think he CAN use a blue passport/visa without formally renouncing his Russian citizenship. Russia won't recognize him as a US citizen and vice versa unless he formally renounces his Russian citizenship. If you have Russian citizenship, you can't get a visa as a US citizen.

I don't know...I technically speaking hold both Russian and US citizenships, even though my Russian passport expired about 10 years ago. I'm planning on getting it renewed eventually (Russian citizenship is very easy to get if you're ex-USSR or citizen of any of the ex-Soviet republics)...this expired passport nor my US passport would not have stopped the Russian police from hauling me into the back of a truck and shipping me off to Chechnya if I were to get caught with it while in Russia.

The solution here really is to avoid traveling to Russia until he's 29 if he does not have a US passport. Once he has one, getting a visa is not really an issue (I've been doing it every since I got my USC 7 years ago). If he were to get swept up in papers check, all he needs to do is produce his US passport (better yet, leave Russian passport at home). At that point he's just another Victor, registered for temporary stay at such and such address.

Another solution is to spend some money and buy him medical disability that prevents him from serving. This obviously requires bribing Russian military officials.

Once he's 29, he can then use both Russian and US passports to travel: Russian passport to get into Russia, and US passport to get out of Russia. No need to worry about registration with OVIR, which can be a really big plus too.

Edited October 14, 2008 by A_I_S

[A_I_S 0]

Thanks A I S, slim and eekee,

That was the sort of info I was looking for. Victor likes to think of himself as a patriot but unless he really wants to join the Russian army I don't see any trips home for the next few years. I don't think he'll go for the renouncing his citizenship route. I am fully aware of the security issues and have discussed them with the recruiters. Funny thing, the job he is best suited for (linguistics) is probably impossible to get into due to the clearance issue.

Renouncing citizenship takes upwards of a year and costs $$...why bother if any competent travel agent in the US can get him a visa to Russia, once he's a USC. Until then...unless he wants to get some real good training in performing construction work while serving in Russian army, I'd advise against going back home. Either that, or you have to have $10000 on hand to be ready to bail him out. Patriotism is all great, but unless he's willing to back up his talk with a 2 year service record...it's better to be patriotic from overseas.

[eekee 182]

Thanks A I S, slim and eekee,

That was the sort of info I was looking for. Victor likes to think of himself as a patriot but unless he really wants to join the Russian army I don't see any trips home for the next few years. I don't think he'll go for the renouncing his citizenship route. I am fully aware of the security issues and have discussed them with the recruiters. Funny thing, the job he is best suited for (linguistics) is probably impossible to get into due to the clearance issue.

Renouncing citizenship takes upwards of a year and costs $$...why bother if any competent travel agent in the US can get him a visa to Russia, once he's a USC. Until then...unless he wants to get some real good training in performing construction work while serving in Russian army, I'd advise against going back home. Either that, or you have to have $10000 on hand to be ready to bail him out. Patriotism is all great, but unless he's willing to back up his talk with a 2 year service record...it's better to be patriotic from overseas.

I repeat, a USC who is also a Russian citizen CANNOT get a Russian visa. Period. All a travel agent can do is make up a fake voucher and fill in your personal information on the forms and send them in. They will not fake a birthplace on your blue passport or create documents which pretend you renounced your citizenship. Fraud of that level of sophistication is beyond the skill level of travel agents. Remember you have to sign a document saying that everything is true--and they do ask about all the citizenships you've ever had and everyone who has issued you a passport.

Edited October 14, 2008 by eekee

[NavarreMan 10]

He only arrived here in April. Fast track to USC is military. He is facing the fact that he is basically here for the duration unless he renounces. His choice I am just gathering info for him. I am thinking that he will join US military and will visit some time off in the future. Time will tell. Thanks all for your inputs. They were helpful and informative.

[slim 1,525]

If he does join the U.S. military he can become a U.S. citizen inside of four years. That's from today. Imagine that... by October of 2012, he could be a USC. It could possibly happen even quicker as the requirement is only three years on active duty. (You gotta figure in time to get signed up, shipped out, paperwork to go through, etc.... but it could happen relatively "fast" in the next couple of years.)

While he's on active duty, he'll probably be too busy to go back to Russia anyway. But, once he has the blue passport, he can come and go as he pleases. (Provided his commander approves international travel while on leave!)

And don't forget about the GI Bill and all the other great benefits the military has to offer. Coming here with "nothing" as a high schooler could very quickly lead him into being a well-to-do young man.

[NavarreMan 10]

If he does join the U.S. military he can become a U.S. citizen inside of four years. That's from today. Imagine that... by October of 2012, he could be a USC. It could possibly happen even quicker as the requirement is only three years on active duty. (You gotta figure in time to get signed up, shipped out, paperwork to go through, etc.... but it could happen relatively "fast" in the next couple of years.)

While he's on active duty, he'll probably be too busy to go back to Russia anyway. But, once he has the blue passport, he can come and go as he pleases. (Provided his commander approves international travel while on leave!)

And don't forget about the GI Bill and all the other great benefits the military has to offer. Coming here with "nothing" as a high schooler could very quickly lead him into being a well-to-do young man.

All very good points - don't you ever sleep?

[slim 1,525]

- don't you ever sleep?

I get a good four to six hours every morning. I really don't sleep a lot, but my wife will tell you, when I'm out, I'm out! I'm one of those people that can close his eyes and be in REM in about 30 seconds. Hell, I've had full dreams and woken up in 5 minutes. So much for that "dreams take 8 minutes" stuff. If I learned one thing in the military it's the value of a "combat nap."

[Ban Hammer 13,337]

Funny thing, the job he is best suited for (linguistics) is probably impossible to get into due to the clearance issue.

No, that's not true at all. They'll definitely make him a linguist..... in Farsi!

"Military Intelligence"

[NavarreMan 10]

Did I strike a sour note Charles?

[Ban Hammer 13,337]

Did I strike a sour note Charles?

hmmpfff