Job Hunting...

[Bruce2008 0]

On 6th Oct I found an entry level IT job just posted that very day on careerbuilder. I found the employers web page and filled out their application online the same day!.. The job asked for high school education, A+ certification and perferred MCP with experience. Considdering I have the minimum requirements (including the A+) and more! plus a few certificates form back home and over 5 years (not including training time) experience in the field I thought I'd least get an interview or something... The next morning on the 7th at 8:40 I get an email saying.. "thanks for applying... but we're looking for canditates that better fit our needs" from their human resources?

Is it just me or is something wrong here? I mean the job opens on the 6th and by the 7th I have HR telling me no?.. I don't get it.. I emailed their HR and asked why the rejection as I'm qualified to at least get past HR but no responce.. So I emailed HR director and said the same thing.. no responce. I thinking about calling them and saying.. #######.. why am I being rejected? I'm getting fedup with being rejected by these places and I'm thinking it's because I've only one US employer since I moved here in 2005?

Is it just me or is this weird?...

Maybe they thought you'd be overqualified?

(Which is a concern because overqualified = turnover)

Good luck with the job hunt

Saludos,

Caro

I don't know where you live, but this randomly came up in a google search whilst I was searching for a job. It struck me because my qualifications are almost identical to yours, and I'm having a hard time finding a job as well. I'm a Lifelong US citizen (family immigrated before the civil war). My old place of employment recently stopped existing after this wallstreet meltdown.

Just wanted to say, you're not alone. You're in good company with a lot of US citizens. I don't resent you going after the same jobs, I've always believed America should be open to ambitious people with a drive to succeed.

I do have a problem with poorly educated people coming here and expecting to get a job straight off, free health care, education for their children and so on. When America was founded we didn't have this whole goverment welfare and social system. But now that we do, it really complicates immigration. My family got off the boat, worked for a pittance in factories, fought in the civil war and eventually got a homestead in Minnesota.

This current market correction is pretty serious, but it's also good because it's clearing up a lot of distortions and hopefully setting us up for strong growth. I just hope Obama doesn't drag down the whole US budget subsidizing politically powerful industries like auto manufacturing and burdening all the rest of the economy with higher taxes.

One industry I know is hiring is the nuclear energy industry, they're desperate. My friend got education through the navy and is getting paid really well. The plants also run some training programs, once new plant construction starts they usually run some 16 week training programs for technician level jobs that actually pay 50-60K.

[aidan80 9]

On 6th Oct I found an entry level IT job just posted that very day on careerbuilder. I found the employers web page and filled out their application online the same day!.. The job asked for high school education, A+ certification and perferred MCP with experience. Considdering I have the minimum requirements (including the A+) and more! plus a few certificates form back home and over 5 years (not including training time) experience in the field I thought I'd least get an interview or something... The next morning on the 7th at 8:40 I get an email saying.. "thanks for applying... but we're looking for canditates that better fit our needs" from their human resources?

Is it just me or is something wrong here? I mean the job opens on the 6th and by the 7th I have HR telling me no?.. I don't get it.. I emailed their HR and asked why the rejection as I'm qualified to at least get past HR but no responce.. So I emailed HR director and said the same thing.. no responce. I thinking about calling them and saying.. #######.. why am I being rejected? I'm getting fedup with being rejected by these places and I'm thinking it's because I've only one US employer since I moved here in 2005?

Is it just me or is this weird?...

Maybe they thought you'd be overqualified?

(Which is a concern because overqualified = turnover)

Good luck with the job hunt

Saludos,

Caro

I don't know where you live, but this randomly came up in a google search whilst I was searching for a job. It struck me because my qualifications are almost identical to yours, and I'm having a hard time finding a job as well. I'm a Lifelong US citizen (family immigrated before the civil war). My old place of employment recently stopped existing after this wallstreet meltdown.

Just wanted to say, you're not alone. You're in good company with a lot of US citizens. I don't resent you going after the same jobs, I've always believed America should be open to ambitious people with a drive to succeed.

I do have a problem with poorly educated people coming here and expecting to get a job straight off, free health care, education for their children and so on. When America was founded we didn't have this whole goverment welfare and social system. But now that we do, it really complicates immigration. My family got off the boat, worked for a pittance in factories, fought in the civil war and eventually got a homestead in Minnesota.

This current market correction is pretty serious, but it's also good because it's clearing up a lot of distortions and hopefully setting us up for strong growth. I just hope Obama doesn't drag down the whole US budget subsidizing politically powerful industries like auto manufacturing and burdening all the rest of the economy with higher taxes.

One industry I know is hiring is the nuclear energy industry, they're desperate. My friend got education through the navy and is getting paid really well. The plants also run some training programs, once new plant construction starts they usually run some 16 week training programs for technician level jobs that actually pay 50-60K.

I'm in Florida at the minute.. what’s weird is, I'm more than qualified for that job.. I was more than qualified for the other jobs I've applied for and so far all I get is ignored or thanks but no thanks. There could be a lot of reasons but I've little or no doubt on quite a few occasions it was simply because I'm not a citizen or lack "work history".

Well I'd prefer not to discriminate against those less than intelligent than others.. that opens up a whole Pandora's box. If you do it against immigrants who's next? Free heath care? Which country are you living in? Last time I checked so called health care in America was not free! I don’t want to hear the excuse put out by big health care that..... “those illegal’s are being treated and not paying”.. before I hear that excuse let’s look at the profits of private health care in America and let’s do that math on how many uninsured Americans there are vs how many possible uninsured illegal’s there are getting “free treatment”! Now back home I could see the doctor and not get hit with a % of the bill or a "co-pay" and the bills for items the insurance company decides it isn't paying for… Socialized health care works and could very well work here!

A lot has changed since America was founded and the health care system needs to change with it! We're not living back in the stone age anymore? I think the people of this country deserve the basics from their government, we all work and pay our taxes and what do we get in return? A couple of wars and a bunch of crooks spending all our money on blowing $hit up and pumping it back into the guys that paid them into office?

What complicates immigration is the policies of the right wing, the stupid border fence (what ever happened to that?), fee's more and more fee's just to apply, to wait, to wait some more, to get an EAD.. etc Then there's the whole "criminalization" policy launched by Bush. Thatcher thought she could criminalize the Irish during the 80's and look where that got her and her conservative polices!

I personally think Obama will do a good job, ridding America of the mistake in Iraq, saving billions if not trillions form it.. maybe putting that back into the country into education, health care, jobs, something positive instead of negativity!

[Bruce2008 0]

I'm in Florida at the minute.. what’s weird is, I'm more than qualified for that job.. I was more than qualified for the other jobs I've applied for and so far all I get is ignored or thanks but no thanks. There could be a lot of reasons but I've little or no doubt on quite a few occasions it was simply because I'm not a citizen or lack "work history".

Well I'd prefer not to discriminate against those less than intelligent than others.. that opens up a whole Pandora's box. If you do it against immigrants who's next? Free heath care? Which country are you living in? Last time I checked so called health care in America was not free! I don’t want to hear the excuse put out by big health care that..... “those illegal’s are being treated and not paying”.. before I hear that excuse let’s look at the profits of private health care in America and let’s do that math on how many uninsured Americans there are vs how many possible uninsured illegal’s there are getting “free treatment”! Now back home I could see the doctor and not get hit with a % of the bill or a "co-pay" and the bills for items the insurance company decides it isn't paying for… Socialized health care works and could very well work here!

A lot has changed since America was founded and the health care system needs to change with it! We're not living back in the stone age anymore? I think the people of this country deserve the basics from their government, we all work and pay our taxes and what do we get in return? A couple of wars and a bunch of crooks spending all our money on blowing $hit up and pumping it back into the guys that paid them into office?

What complicates immigration is the policies of the right wing, the stupid border fence (what ever happened to that?), fee's more and more fee's just to apply, to wait, to wait some more, to get an EAD.. etc Then there's the whole "criminalization" policy launched by Bush. Thatcher thought she could criminalize the Irish during the 80's and look where that got her and her conservative polices!

I personally think Obama will do a good job, ridding America of the mistake in Iraq, saving billions if not trillions form it.. maybe putting that back into the country into education, health care, jobs, something positive instead of negativity!

If you want all immigrants (illeagal and otherwise) to get even more health care and government services then they have the potential to put a greater strain on the budget. As it is, the US absorbs massive numbers of immigrants. The UK absorbs a pittance comared to the US. Even that small number is enough that last I checked restricting immigration is a constant topic of discussion in the UK, Germany and Europe as a whole. You have absolutely no ground to stand on if you're going to argue that America should model itself off of Europe with respect to immigration policies. Every year the US absorbs about 1.8 million immigrants. The UK absorbed about 50,000 every year in the 1990s (there are a lot more now, but they are educated people from eastern Europe who actually do leave and it looks like that will be limited soon as well).

Your argument about health care profits makes absolutely no sense. Anyone who requires catastrophic care in the US will get it. Private insurance companies make good profits, but private insurance companies don't pay one dime of health care for illeagal immigrants! Hospitals pay these costs, which in many cases are passed on to tax payers or Americans who actually pay their health care costs out of pocket. It's actually honest, mostly low income Americans, who really get screwed and subsidize catastrophic care for illeagal immigrants. Also the "massive profits" of private insurance companies (actually they earn a small margin, it's just a huge business) are paid for US citizens, so I don't understand how you feel they should be redistributed to immigrants.

Your belief that Democrats are going to establish some kind of single payer system is pretty far fetched as well. They're not going to do anything about those profits you so deride. Last cycle, 56% of contributions from private insurance companies went to the Dems (including Obama and Hillary). I'm all for providing more comprehensive health care to the uninsured, but you've got to realise this will imact the way people view (illeagal) immigrants.

http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/mems.asp

Legal immigration is quite restricted, yes, but our legal immigration policies must take into account the millions of illeagal immigrants. If you want the US to accept more legal immigrants, the first step we have to take is lessening the number of illeagal immigratns. A border fence would a be first step in that. The hypocrasy of any European who derides the US buildinga border fence is unbelievable. Europeans fence of everything they can to stop immigrants. The British built a Fence in France to stop a few hundred illeagal immigrants getting in, and it's a big controversy when it turns out people are getting passed it. Spain has a huge fence complex on that tiny sliver of land in Africa and they're brutal to people who try to cross it.

And Europe is spending billions securing the eastern EU border...

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article140626.ece

http://www.eubusiness.com/Living_in_EU/eurosur-guide/

I also find it pretty amusing that you believe right wing policies are anti-immigration. I don't know how much you pay attention to US politics, but it was actually George Bush, John McCain and others who put their political good-will on the line and really tried to get some kind of legal status for illeagal immigrants in the US. It was Ronald Reagan that conferred citizenship to millions of Mexican immigrants in 1986.

Finally, I've been looking for a job for five months now, and at least two of the people who got hired instead of me were a lot less qualified. They could have known someone there, or maybe they just didn't like me. It annoys me that when the same thing happens to you it's assumed it must be discrimination against immigrants, when it happens to me, I guess I'm just a white guy who's #### out of luck? But I've got no one to complain to or blame so I deal with it.

(Also, Obama isn't pulling out of Iraq anytime soon. He can't let it fall into civil war. The surge worked and things are getting stable, it will be a phased withdrawl. Even if Obama is elected, US forces won't be out until after 2011, Obama has said as much).

[Mononoke28 135]

Anyone who requires catastrophic care in the US will get it.

Yes and they amount of money they are billed for that is astronomical which most of us can't afford if we are not covered by any type of insurance.

A border fence would a be first step in that.

Riiiiiiiight... and I also believe that unicorns exist. Keep on telling yourself that.

It was Ronald Reagan that conferred citizenship to millions of Mexican immigrants in 1986.

Wrong again, it wasn't just Mexicans and it wasn't US citizenship. It was an amnesty to give illegal immigrants, not just Mexican, permanent residency. Which is very different from obtaining US citizenship.

Diana

[Bruce2008 0]

Anyone who requires catastrophic care in the US will get it.

Yes and they amount of money they are billed for that is astronomical which most of us can't afford if we are not covered by any type of insurance.

Exactly, you have a great point! Those bills are astronomical because so many people don't pay them. Catastrophic care is given regardless of ability to pay. The illeagal immigrants who can't be tracked and don't pay their bills are being paid for by honest people like you. If I were you, that would piss me off.

Exactly the same thing will happen if universal health care is implimented the way you guys want. Most people in America will still be on private insurance. There's going to be a limited budget (money is not infinite) for the public health care system. If you pay into it, but it should also be provided to illeagal immigrants or tax cheats, then those people will be using valuable health care resources and denying them to you.

There are only so many doctors. All the health care proposals would push their wages lower, so there will be even fewer in the future. So the health care might be "free," but good luck getting any real attention from a doctor or surviving long enough to actually get to the operation you need. There will be a few thousand Mexicans who came up to the US for higher quality care in line ahead of you.

A border fence would a be first step in that.

Riiiiiiiight... and I also believe that unicorns exist. Keep on telling yourself that.

Yup, because no one has ever built a fence that prevented people crossing, or managed to secure a very long desert border. Oh wait, the Saudis have succesfully controlled a much longer border, and the Soviets controlled a border even longer then that.

I assume you're here legally, so I find it astounding that you want to support the mass entry of illeagal immigrants and deride any efforts to discourage them. You play by the rules and work hard, and fully support the people who give immigrants a bad name? People like MS13 should be able to enter the country freely, but Columbians (who don't have the luxury of just walking across the border) should need to follow the legal process? Interesting.

I wonder what Columbia's immigration laws are like. Are they like Mexico's, where people speaking foreign languages are not allowed to congregate, illeagal immigrants are loaded onto the back of halftracks and bussed out by force, protesting by legal immigrants is prohibited? If we modeled our immigration laws off the country of origin, there would have been mass arrests and deportations during those immigrant rallies last year. Thankfully, we don't follow the example the rest of the world sets!

It was Ronald Reagan that conferred citizenship to millions of Mexican immigrants in 1986.

Wrong again, it wasn't just Mexicans and it wasn't US citizenship. It was an amnesty to give illegal immigrants, not just Mexican, permanent residency. Which is very different from obtaining US citizenship.

Thanks for the correction. But it put them on the path to citizenship and it was a Republican that signed it, not a Democrat. Bill Clinton didn't even attempt anything like that.

Edited October 23, 2008 by Bruce2008

[Big Papa Zone 93]

The UK absorbs a pittance comared to the US.

Yes, but it's all relevant, surely? The USA is how many times bigger than the UK???

The UK absorbed about 50,000 every year in the 1990s

That was the 1990s - try 1.7 million over the last ten years (more than 3 times the figure per annum you quote).

(there are a lot more now,(I'm glad you noticed that) but they are educated people from eastern Europe who actually do leave and it looks like that will be limited soon as well).

If you call car cleaners, fruit pickers et al "educated" then yes, Bruce, OK then. A fair percentage of those that arrive, to be fair, are indeed educated/skilled. But I assure you, a fair percentage aren't.

Anyway, I'm not trying to knock your views (you make some valid points) just put you straight on your perception of the immigration issues facing the UK.

If you want a proper ding-dong about the whole illegal immigration thing, I'd advise you to nip over to the "Off Topic" forum, where you'll find a chap called Paul Daniels who will go at it with you hammer and tongs. You'll find yourself hopelessly outnumbered by those representing the liberal left, but I'm sure an Australian gentleman calling himself "Afficionado" will come to your aid should you get bogged down.

Good luck.

[Dr. Obvious 49]

Well, back a bit.

I think the reason for the difficulty finding a job in that field is that it is a buyer's market. A few years ago, you couldn't turn on the TV without 18 fly by night schools telling you how the A+ or MCSE was the greatest thing since sliced bread, ticket to six figures. The market is appropriately glutted now. Half by people who just dumped to get a quick buck and have no interest in IT and half who do have a healthy interest but are mostly screwed by group 1. Wages are low and jobs are hard to get because there is a true oversupply. That is why you find simple jobs with MCSE as the minimum requirements. Not because you need them, just because it has been so devalued it has become an expectation to have it.

Your choices are to really either go back to school and start networking or find another profession. My husband has a similar background as you and works now as a computer/network tech. There is really no career future at that level given the glut and he has decided to go back to school. At our community college, IT certs count as direct course to course equivilents for the CIT program. My husband is basically already half way done with his degree without even having started it yet. Run though that, get the AS, and then transfer to the local uni for the BS. Work some work-study IT jobs, get to know people who know people. In this economy, why not, really? I'd seriously give it some thought.

[aidan80 9]

Well, back a bit.

I think the reason for the difficulty finding a job in that field is that it is a buyer's market. A few years ago, you couldn't turn on the TV without 18 fly by night schools telling you how the A+ or MCSE was the greatest thing since sliced bread, ticket to six figures. The market is appropriately glutted now. Half by people who just dumped to get a quick buck and have no interest in IT and half who do have a healthy interest but are mostly screwed by group 1. Wages are low and jobs are hard to get because there is a true oversupply. That is why you find simple jobs with MCSE as the minimum requirements. Not because you need them, just because it has been so devalued it has become an expectation to have it.

Your choices are to really either go back to school and start networking or find another profession. My husband has a similar background as you and works now as a computer/network tech. There is really no career future at that level given the glut and he has decided to go back to school. At our community college, IT certs count as direct course to course equivilents for the CIT program. My husband is basically already half way done with his degree without even having started it yet. Run though that, get the AS, and then transfer to the local uni for the BS. Work some work-study IT jobs, get to know people who know people. In this economy, why not, really? I'd seriously give it some thought.

Thanks, that is excellent advice! I suppose my original complaint was about being overlooked so many times for jobs!..

I know the job market is over run with people, with the entry level stuff. I've been doing some history (.com boom lol to present to start with) reading on how the market was and is now in the US. Luckily I've not just got the bare essentials, I've have moved more into the networking side of things and should finish up as an MSCA in a few months then just a few more exams after that and I'll have that all magical MSCE! lol... I've been trying to network with other IT people but that's hard to do in an office.. luckily I got a wee promotion a few weeks ago which actually sees me working with one of our IT divisions which is great, in a lot of ways!! I too found out that some colleges that will accept my certificates as credit hours which is very nice, if only they'd accept the stupid stuff I did back home! lol

I really shouldn't complain too much, there are plenty of people out there right now out of work.

[aidan80 9]

I'm in Florida at the minute.. what’s weird is, I'm more than qualified for that job..

If you want all immigrants (illeagal and otherwise) to get even more health care and government services then they have the potential to put a greater strain on the budget. As it is, the US absorbs massive numbers of immigrants. The UK absorbs a pittance comared....

I was going to respond till I see you quoted something from The Sun ..

[DeadPoolX 9]

Well, back a bit.

I think the reason for the difficulty finding a job in that field is that it is a buyer's market. A few years ago, you couldn't turn on the TV without 18 fly by night schools telling you how the A+ or MCSE was the greatest thing since sliced bread, ticket to six figures. The market is appropriately glutted now. Half by people who just dumped to get a quick buck and have no interest in IT and half who do have a healthy interest but are mostly screwed by group 1. Wages are low and jobs are hard to get because there is a true oversupply. That is why you find simple jobs with MCSE as the minimum requirements. Not because you need them, just because it has been so devalued it has become an expectation to have it.

Your choices are to really either go back to school and start networking or find another profession. My husband has a similar background as you and works now as a computer/network tech. There is really no career future at that level given the glut and he has decided to go back to school. At our community college, IT certs count as direct course to course equivilents for the CIT program. My husband is basically already half way done with his degree without even having started it yet. Run though that, get the AS, and then transfer to the local uni for the BS. Work some work-study IT jobs, get to know people who know people. In this economy, why not, really? I'd seriously give it some thought.

It's a somewhat similar situation for graphic designers. About eight years ago, there was a "dot com" business popping up every day and those with computer-related backgrounds (such as graphic designers and IT personnel) were getting snatched up and given high salaries.

A few years later the "tech bubble" burst. Suddenly, tons of "dot com" companies folded and the high-paid tech jobs with them. Because so many had gone into these fields, hoping to secure a quick buck and with the massive layoffs, the market was vastly oversaturated. It's still quite possible for a graphic designer or someone in IT to get great paying positions with benefits and some security -- but these are rare and everyone in these fields are fighting hard for them.

All tech jobs are suffering from the ease in which the jobs can be performed nowadays, too. You'll be hardpressed to find a neighborhood where some teenagers haven't illegally downloaded a cracked version of Photoshop or new Linksys and D-Like routers that make networking and security a breeze. To make matters worse, there are thousands of websites and books on these subjects, so many people look at these jobs as "something their 13 year-old Johnny can do."

In reality, Johnny probably can't or at least, he can't do the job nearly as well. Books and websites help, but nothing beats actual training, experience and a degree (which is mostly useful for getting your "foot in the door"). Unfortunately, the perception is if "anyone can slap some colored text on an image" or "get a wireless printer to work," they're a professional in either field. It seems that what was once a graphic designer's or IT person's "best friend and greatest tool" has become something that will eventually render them unnecessary.

Edited October 26, 2008 by DeadPoolX

[Dr. Obvious 49]

It's still quite possible for a graphic designer or someone in IT to get great paying positions with benefits and some security -- but these are rare and everyone in these fields are fighting hard for them.

Pretty much. For those reasons, it shouldn't be taken personally when there is no call back. In addition, the general labor market is just worsening by the day anyway.

I read that the number of students going into CS/CT is dropping off at a good rate. The same thing is probably starting to happen to the existing IT labor pool. You can read plenty of stories where IT folks became truck drivers and nurses, two professions where there is a significant labor shortage, among other things. The outsourcing fad has mostly worn out its welcome. Eventually IT supply will equal demand again, just probably not for another few years. For some people, it would probably be for the best to move on to something else in the meantime.

[LikeALadybug 2]

On 6th Oct I found an entry level IT job just posted that very day on careerbuilder. I found the employers web page and filled out their application online the same day!.. The job asked for high school education, A+ certification and perferred MCP with experience. Considdering I have the minimum requirements (including the A+) and more! plus a few certificates form back home and over 5 years (not including training time) experience in the field I thought I'd least get an interview or something... The next morning on the 7th at 8:40 I get an email saying.. "thanks for applying... but we're looking for canditates that better fit our needs" from their human resources?

Is it just me or is something wrong here? I mean the job opens on the 6th and by the 7th I have HR telling me no?.. I don't get it.. I emailed their HR and asked why the rejection as I'm qualified to at least get past HR but no responce.. So I emailed HR director and said the same thing.. no responce. I thinking about calling them and saying.. #######.. why am I being rejected? I'm getting fedup with being rejected by these places and I'm thinking it's because I've only one US employer since I moved here in 2005?

Is it just me or is this weird?...

Hi,

Idon't know if I'm too late to be read but I have lived in the USA for about 6 years and although I didn't start working until last year on my OPT, the response you got sounds like the "American Way" from what I have picked up.

When I started looking for jobs last year I found that the jobs I was not really qualified for called me in for an interview even if I was not hired in the end, and the jobs I was more than qualified for said "No thanks" with out even talking to me. I have finally come to the conclusion they will NOT hire anyone who is over qualified, they might have to pay you a real wage, especially they way things are over here right now they will rather train you a little and pay you A LOT less than someone with a real degree and experience.

My brother-in-law who is an American citizen and also in the IT field has been unemployed for a while now and he applied/applies for jobs that require very little education and he is constantly blown off too. So, I doubt it has anything to do with your nationality or legal status but of course I don't know. It's just what I have concluded....