White Privilege, White Entitlement and the 2008 Election

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

they're people just like you and me.

With fewer teeth

i thought that was us limeys

Speak for yourself!

[HAL 9000 96]

Pro human here. Nuff said.

What's that?

Anti-stupid and/or anti-selfish. Something like that.

Pro human here. Nuff said.

Anti-conservative here.

I mean, what's great about being conservative and in a society? You hate taxes, you hate progression (social progression, namely, like gay marriage, womens rights, blacks rights), you hate helping others, and you accomplish pretty much nothing. Conservative sounds archaic, like some caveman clubbing some woman over the head, dragging her back to the cave, and writing scripture on the cave walls, killing any other caveman (especially of different skin color) that dares come near (no illegal immigrants).

When I think conservative I think someone who needs to be on an island to themselves, not trying to hold back the rest of society.

Sometimes I do wonder about that term. Conservative. Wanting to conserve what exactly? Since its politicians we're really talking about, and even neo-cons criticize the government, then aren't they in some kind of contradiction?

[HAL 9000 96]

We have people here saying that lack of education is the problem. WRONG! The rampant and uncontrolled crime wave is the issue. You can give a kid all the money and facilities in the world to get an education but if they cannot go to school or live in a safe area, they are never going to get an education. I don't know of many people who would be concerned over algebra rather than surviving the day.

What you fail to understand is that all of these issues are connected - education ties to employment, to economics to crime. Subcultural values are then informed by these conditions.

The United Kingdom and Australia both prove that no matter how much money (welfare) and opportunities (through education) you throw at people, certain people will still be more prone to crime than others. Especially in communities where kids folks do not give a #### about them.

Actually six, most of the people I went to school with who are now serving time came from wealthy families. The problem was they did not have any discipline at home and due to over zealous youth protection laws, were not disciplined in the real world either. What was it maviwaro called it, cause and effect.

You mention education over and over again yet I have shown one recent example of a African American kid being strangled at school by a fellow African American student, who is a known gang member. So you tell me six, what sort of education should this kid aspire for. Yes this same kid who is worried about being harassed, bullied or killed.

Exactly. Things don't occur in a vaccum. Nor do they occur in a black and white fashion where one "cause" trumps all others.

[HAL 9000 96]

Is this Palin speak? Make sense damn you!

Seriously, I have no idea how your answer relates to my question.

That was the point.

Yes I have not researched specific strategies..

So why assume they'd be "unconstitutional" or labeled as "racist"??

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Is this Palin speak? Make sense damn you!

Seriously, I have no idea how your answer relates to my question.

That was the point.

Yes I have not researched specific strategies..

So why assume they'd be "unconstitutional" or labeled as "racist"??

Or even successful...

[HAL 9000 96]

i guess my original point was targeted at die hard republicans who won't budge on anything, rednecks. there's a lot here (in the deep south). i don't think for a second that anyone who comes on here falls into that category.

i've met quite a few "rednecks" (which btw i consider to be a disparaging term) who are strongly democratic.

you think it's disparaging? have you been to the south? just an hour ago i saw a truck drive by with the word REDNECK across the windshield. it is very very common here, people are proud of it.

you must be new here.

and if you watch how that word is thrown around in vj, it's used to look down on a group of people.

i am, and i don't mean it to be offensive, it's a fact of life down here. all those people with "redneck" on their trucks and with t-shirts and stuff (there's a lot of em) will most likely be voting for mccain even though voting for a woman is totally against their morals (as i have heard from some of them). i'm not a big fan of these people as i am sure they are not of me either. i don't look down on them though, they're people just like you and me.

fyi - i'm from texas. that's why i got a major laugh outta the "have you been to the south"

so why do you find it disparaging? i find those people and their comments disparaging to be perfectly honest, but that is how it is here.

do a search on the term "redneck" in vj ot and see how it's used. you'll see the light.

Would you like a hankerchief?

All the while, racism continues to be a problem. We fixate on the small things- either out of disingenousness or out of ignorance.

[rocks 494]

like i said neither of our stories are comparable to black oppression simply because now it is not an issue. i don't get grief for having protestant history and you don't for being australian (i hope hehe). racism is still rife though.

and what about aborigines? i said i wasn't going to mention it but the whole "stolen generation" thing was sadly still happening until very recently. i don't think the problem is about how recent it was, although it does play a part in it.

The aborigines are a different story. Yes they got the short end of the stick when England took over the continent. The Australian government is doing and has done a lot to assist them integrating into Australia and improving their living standards. Culture cannot be changed overnight though. For example, they have had to designate large remote areas as dry zones to stop the huge problem of alcohol abuse facing their community.

This is something which cannot happen in the United States due to this or that freedom or "constitutionally protected right" being violated. Hence why nothing changes here. On top of that anyone who speaks up against the issues facing inner city African American communities is branded a racist. Just the other day I read how a teenager was strangled at school. We have people here saying that lack of education is the problem. WRONG! The rampant and uncontrolled crime wave is the issue. You can give a kid all the money and facilities in the world to get an education but if they cannot go to school or live in a safe area, they are never going to get an education. I don't know of many people who would be concerned over algebra rather than surviving the day.

you can't blame the stolen generation issue solely on britain, it was happening up until the 1970's. there are now government initiatives to help improve the quality of life for aborigines and to try and preserve what is left of their history, but it is a case of too little too late, hence all the alcohol problems. you don't think this is the same for native americans? obviously the situation with reservations is different but they have many of the same problems, alcohol abuse being a major concern for both.

there are plenty of people who speak out about the problems in african american communities, including african americans. the issue with violence is mostly due to bad parenting (a lack of education).

[HAL 9000 96]

Or even successful...

Well I'm sure American politicians have the ability to learn from overseas success stories. Unless they're isolationists that don't give a damn about the rest of the world- until there's a profit in it for them.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

like i said neither of our stories are comparable to black oppression simply because now it is not an issue. i don't get grief for having protestant history and you don't for being australian (i hope hehe). racism is still rife though.

and what about aborigines? i said i wasn't going to mention it but the whole "stolen generation" thing was sadly still happening until very recently. i don't think the problem is about how recent it was, although it does play a part in it.

The aborigines are a different story. Yes they got the short end of the stick when England took over the continent. The Australian government is doing and has done a lot to assist them integrating into Australia and improving their living standards. Culture cannot be changed overnight though. For example, they have had to designate large remote areas as dry zones to stop the huge problem of alcohol abuse facing their community.

This is something which cannot happen in the United States due to this or that freedom or "constitutionally protected right" being violated. Hence why nothing changes here. On top of that anyone who speaks up against the issues facing inner city African American communities is branded a racist. Just the other day I read how a teenager was strangled at school. We have people here saying that lack of education is the problem. WRONG! The rampant and uncontrolled crime wave is the issue. You can give a kid all the money and facilities in the world to get an education but if they cannot go to school or live in a safe area, they are never going to get an education. I don't know of many people who would be concerned over algebra rather than surviving the day.

you can't blame the stolen generation issue solely on britain, it was happening up until the 1970's. there are now government initiatives to help improve the quality of life for aborigines and to try and preserve what is left of their history, but it is a case of too little too late, hence all the alcohol problems. you don't think this is the same for native americans? obviously the situation with reservations is different but they have many of the same problems, alcohol abuse being a major concern for both.

there are plenty of people who speak out about the problems in african american communities, including african americans. the issue with violence is mostly due to bad parenting (a lack of education).

Exactly what I've been saying to him - and it was only recently that the Australian government issued its apology to the victims, which was surely of relevance given that victims of the policy are still alive. I agree that Native Americans are probably the best parallel - with highest levels of alcohol abuse, DUI, unemployment and suicide.

Britain certainly has been responsible for a lot of bad in the world, and to an extent our approach to foreign policy has changed somewhat since the Empire days. I'd contend that as far as this goes that the US is in the same position today that the UK was a couple hundred years ago - and to some extent there is similar arrogance on the part of the public about manifest destiny and the US' seemingly god given right to dictate its values to the rest of the world.

[rocks 494]

like i said neither of our stories are comparable to black oppression simply because now it is not an issue. i don't get grief for having protestant history and you don't for being australian (i hope hehe). racism is still rife though.

and what about aborigines? i said i wasn't going to mention it but the whole "stolen generation" thing was sadly still happening until very recently. i don't think the problem is about how recent it was, although it does play a part in it.

The aborigines are a different story. Yes they got the short end of the stick when England took over the continent. The Australian government is doing and has done a lot to assist them integrating into Australia and improving their living standards. Culture cannot be changed overnight though. For example, they have had to designate large remote areas as dry zones to stop the huge problem of alcohol abuse facing their community.

This is something which cannot happen in the United States due to this or that freedom or "constitutionally protected right" being violated. Hence why nothing changes here. On top of that anyone who speaks up against the issues facing inner city African American communities is branded a racist. Just the other day I read how a teenager was strangled at school. We have people here saying that lack of education is the problem. WRONG! The rampant and uncontrolled crime wave is the issue. You can give a kid all the money and facilities in the world to get an education but if they cannot go to school or live in a safe area, they are never going to get an education. I don't know of many people who would be concerned over algebra rather than surviving the day.

you can't blame the stolen generation issue solely on britain, it was happening up until the 1970's. there are now government initiatives to help improve the quality of life for aborigines and to try and preserve what is left of their history, but it is a case of too little too late, hence all the alcohol problems. you don't think this is the same for native americans? obviously the situation with reservations is different but they have many of the same problems, alcohol abuse being a major concern for both.

there are plenty of people who speak out about the problems in african american communities, including african americans. the issue with violence is mostly due to bad parenting (a lack of education).

Exactly what I've been saying to him - and it was only recently that the Australian government issued its apology to the victims, which was surely of relevance given that victims of the policy are still alive. I agree that Native Americans are probably the best parallel - with highest levels of alcohol abuse, DUI, unemployment and suicide.

Britain certainly has been responsible for a lot of bad in the world, and to an extent our approach to foreign policy has changed somewhat since the Empire days. I'd contend that as far as this goes that the US is in the same position today that the UK was a couple hundred years ago - and to some extent there is similar arrogance on the part of the public about manifest destiny and the US' seemingly god given right to dictate its values to the rest of the world.

wiki:

"There however remains opposition to acceptance of the validity of the term "Stolen Generations". This was illustrated by the former Prime Minister John Howard refusing to apologise"

john howard = fail. that attitude would drive me to drink too. why not deny the holocaust whilst you're there john?

we can't deny that britain raped the world, i'm not proud of our country in that respect at all but i think we mostly (aside from the current wars) accept that having an empire is inherently wrong. i do think the commonwealth is a good idea though, it's the least we could do. the only problem is that america isn't a part of it

i agree that the us is going through what the uk did a few hundred years ago, i'm just waiting for the day it sees the error of its ways. it took us two world wars before we did.

the arrogance that you talk of is exactly why most people who have not visited the states resent it and the people who live in it. in turn that fuels problems such as terrorism.

[Ban Hammer 13,334]

i guess my original point was targeted at die hard republicans who won't budge on anything, rednecks. there's a lot here (in the deep south). i don't think for a second that anyone who comes on here falls into that category.

i've met quite a few "rednecks" (which btw i consider to be a disparaging term) who are strongly democratic.

you think it's disparaging? have you been to the south? just an hour ago i saw a truck drive by with the word REDNECK across the windshield. it is very very common here, people are proud of it.

you must be new here.

and if you watch how that word is thrown around in vj, it's used to look down on a group of people.

i am, and i don't mean it to be offensive, it's a fact of life down here. all those people with "redneck" on their trucks and with t-shirts and stuff (there's a lot of em) will most likely be voting for mccain even though voting for a woman is totally against their morals (as i have heard from some of them). i'm not a big fan of these people as i am sure they are not of me either. i don't look down on them though, they're people just like you and me.

fyi - i'm from texas. that's why i got a major laugh outta the "have you been to the south"

so why do you find it disparaging? i find those people and their comments disparaging to be perfectly honest, but that is how it is here.

do a search on the term "redneck" in vj ot and see how it's used. you'll see the light.

Would you like a hankerchief?

All the while, racism continues to be a problem. We fixate on the small things- either out of disingenousness or out of ignorance.

just pointing out to other users how that word is used around here. i'll pass on the hankerchief and opt for the beer though. so why are you fixating on my educating other users?

[rocks 494]

i guess my original point was targeted at die hard republicans who won't budge on anything, rednecks. there's a lot here (in the deep south). i don't think for a second that anyone who comes on here falls into that category.

i've met quite a few "rednecks" (which btw i consider to be a disparaging term) who are strongly democratic.

you think it's disparaging? have you been to the south? just an hour ago i saw a truck drive by with the word REDNECK across the windshield. it is very very common here, people are proud of it.

you must be new here.

and if you watch how that word is thrown around in vj, it's used to look down on a group of people.

i am, and i don't mean it to be offensive, it's a fact of life down here. all those people with "redneck" on their trucks and with t-shirts and stuff (there's a lot of em) will most likely be voting for mccain even though voting for a woman is totally against their morals (as i have heard from some of them). i'm not a big fan of these people as i am sure they are not of me either. i don't look down on them though, they're people just like you and me.

fyi - i'm from texas. that's why i got a major laugh outta the "have you been to the south"

so why do you find it disparaging? i find those people and their comments disparaging to be perfectly honest, but that is how it is here.

do a search on the term "redneck" in vj ot and see how it's used. you'll see the light.

Would you like a hankerchief?

All the while, racism continues to be a problem. We fixate on the small things- either out of disingenousness or out of ignorance.

just pointing out to other users how that word is used around here. i'll pass on the hankerchief and opt for the beer though. so why are you fixating on my educating other users?

i wouldn't mind a beer either

[Ban Hammer 13,334]

i wouldn't mind a beer either

bottled only please, i hate canned beer.

[rocks 494]

i wouldn't mind a beer either

bottled only please, i hate canned beer.

i only have bacardi it does come in a bottle though!

[Ban Hammer 13,334]

i wouldn't mind a beer either

bottled only please, i hate canned beer.

i only have bacardi it does come in a bottle though!

bacardi works, i can make a mean pina colada