I'm an American everywhere else...

[Ling Ling 22]

I'm just curious Ling Ling... with regards to the use of the term African American, if someone, who is the same race as you, uses the term, does it bother you as much and do you let them know that you don't like the term?

I keep going back to this because I think this comes much more from within the race than it does from the outside. What keeps getting lost here and no one seems to want to really respond to it is that there are people that want to be referred to and are proud to be African American. How are people suppose to know when it's expected and when it's taboo and offensive (like with you).

Well I'm glad you asked that question.

Most of my friends are pretty intelligent (that is pretty strong requirement or me...it's dangerous to hangout with stupid people, no matter how much you like them).

So when my dark skinned American friends use that word, it's usually with a wink. They know how ridiculous it is...and those that don't know...YES, I tell them.

When some of my friends need to describe an American with dark skin, we use a code word that many lighter skinned Americans don't even realize.

That code word is "articulate", as in "Barack Obama is very articulate". People use this term and unknowingly are saying, "I thought they all spoke Ebonics".

Again, I've yet to find an intelligent and patriotic, person who was not from Africa, who preferred being called an "African American" over being called and American.

I understand that because that this term has been promoted by so called "civil rights leaders", but it's in preference to being called colored or the N word.

These so called "civil rights leaders" were not elected or chosen to be representative of Americans with dark skin, and often have their own agenda.

I really don't let this thing takeover my life, and whatever someone calls me doesn't affect me as much as how someone treats me.

Likewise, I'm not excited that I have the right to sit on the front of the bus. I'm excited that I have the opportunity to drive one of my own cars.

[Ling Ling 22]

Hey Pedroh...I know you're part of the choir, but pipe down.

Govt forms should not have a need for asking a citizen their race. All citizens "should" have equal access, treatment, and service to their govt.

Yes...I understand there is a feeling for a need at this time, and it is not completely without mert...but that feeling for the need is part of the problem, not the solution.

There is only one true race, Human.

When we are able to find beings that have different internal organs than we do, then I will CONSIDER that there is a need for a new descriptor.

Until then, the idea of any other "race" has and will only lead to a RACE to the destruction of Humans.

Wow what an ideal world. You know what else I believe?

I believe that children are our future. Teach them well and let them lead the way. Show them all the beauty they possess inside. Give them a sense of pride to make it easier; Let the children's laughter remind us how we used to be.

I want my children to be proud of their heritage in totality, without being limited to the heritage and heros of dark skinned Americans.

You consider yourself "Native-American" or so called Indian as some would say, right?

Do you want your children's heroes to be limited to casino owners, Tonto, and the guy on a wooden nickel?

Hey...we've got that great holiday coming up this Monday when we celebrate your people being "discovered".

"Teach them well and let them lead the way".

[Sister Fracas 5]

I'm just curious Ling Ling... with regards to the use of the term African American, if someone, who is the same race as you, uses the term, does it bother you as much and do you let them know that you don't like the term?

I keep going back to this because I think this comes much more from within the race than it does from the outside. What keeps getting lost here and no one seems to want to really respond to it is that there are people that want to be referred to and are proud to be African American. How are people suppose to know when it's expected and when it's taboo and offensive (like with you).

Well I'm glad you asked that question.

Most of my friends are pretty intelligent (that is pretty strong requirement or me...it's dangerous to hangout with stupid people, no matter how much you like them).

So when my dark skinned American friends use that word, it's usually with a wink. They know how ridiculous it is...and those that don't know...YES, I tell them.

When some of my friends need to describe an American with dark skin, we use a code word that many lighter skinned Americans don't even realize.

That code word is "articulate", as in "Barack Obama is very articulate". People use this term and unknowingly are saying, "I thought they all spoke Ebonics".

Again, I've yet to find an intelligent and patriotic, person who was not from Africa, who preferred being called an "African American" over being called and American.

I understand that because that this term has been promoted by so called "civil rights leaders", but it's in preference to being called colored or the N word.

These so called "civil rights leaders" were not elected or chosen to be representative of Americans with dark skin, and often have their own agenda.

I really don't let this thing takeover my life, and whatever someone calls me doesn't affect me as much as how someone treats me.

Likewise, I'm not excited that I have the right to sit on the front of the bus. I'm excited that I have the opportunity to drive one of my own cars.

But what if I DO think Obama is articulate...for the sake of argument. How can you assume to know what I or anyone else really means? How can you make an assumption that I really just think he's intelligent "for a black guy". Isn't that making a judgement about me then...a judgement you wouldn't like being made about yourself? Because you'd be way off.

Edited October 10, 2008 by Sister Fracas

[Sprailenes 47]

Hey Pedroh...I know you're part of the choir, but pipe down.

Govt forms should not have a need for asking a citizen their race. All citizens "should" have equal access, treatment, and service to their govt.

Yes...I understand there is a feeling for a need at this time, and it is not completely without mert...but that feeling for the need is part of the problem, not the solution.

There is only one true race, Human.

When we are able to find beings that have different internal organs than we do, then I will CONSIDER that there is a need for a new descriptor.

Until then, the idea of any other "race" has and will only lead to a RACE to the destruction of Humans.

Wow what an ideal world. You know what else I believe?

I believe that children are our future. Teach them well and let them lead the way. Show them all the beauty they possess inside. Give them a sense of pride to make it easier; Let the children's laughter remind us how we used to be.

I want my children to be proud of their heritage in totality, without being limited to the heritage and heros of dark skinned Americans.

You consider yourself "Native-American" or so called Indian as some would say, right?

Do you want your children's heroes to be limited to casino owners, Tonto, and the guy on a wooden nickel?

Hey...we've got that great holiday coming up this Monday when we celebrate your people being "discovered".

"Teach them well and let them lead the way".

It was a Whitney Houston song...remember?

And my child is educated in his race and history and knows who his heroes are.

Edited October 10, 2008 by Sprailenes

[Otto 83]

There is only one true race, Human.

Not that it's terribly important to the point but Human (** Sapiens) is our species not our race.

[Ling Ling 22]

I'm just curious Ling Ling... with regards to the use of the term African American, if someone, who is the same race as you, uses the term, does it bother you as much and do you let them know that you don't like the term?

I keep going back to this because I think this comes much more from within the race than it does from the outside. What keeps getting lost here and no one seems to want to really respond to it is that there are people that want to be referred to and are proud to be African American. How are people suppose to know when it's expected and when it's taboo and offensive (like with you).

Well I'm glad you asked that question.

Most of my friends are pretty intelligent (that is pretty strong requirement or me...it's dangerous to hangout with stupid people, no matter how much you like them).

So when my dark skinned American friends use that word, it's usually with a wink. They know how ridiculous it is...and those that don't know...YES, I tell them.

When some of my friends need to describe an American with dark skin, we use a code word that many lighter skinned Americans don't even realize.

That code word is "articulate", as in "Barack Obama is very articulate". People use this term and unknowingly are saying, "I thought they all spoke Ebonics".

Again, I've yet to find an intelligent and patriotic, person who was not from Africa, who preferred being called an "African American" over being called and American.

I understand that because that this term has been promoted by so called "civil rights leaders", but it's in preference to being called colored or the N word.

These so called "civil rights leaders" were not elected or chosen to be representative of Americans with dark skin, and often have their own agenda.

I really don't let this thing takeover my life, and whatever someone calls me doesn't affect me as much as how someone treats me.

Likewise, I'm not excited that I have the right to sit on the front of the bus. I'm excited that I have the opportunity to drive one of my own cars.

But what if I DO think Obama is articulate...for the sake of argument. How can you assume to know what I or anyone else really means? How can you make an assumption that I really just think he's intelligent "for a black guy". Isn't that making a judgement about me then...a judgement you wouldn't like being made about yourself? Because you'd be way off.

Well I'm glad to hear that Sister, but I'm afraid there are too many people that are NOT as enlightened as you are.

Funny, nobody ever said McCain or Palin were articulate. But seriously, this term is uses a LOT to describe dark skin Americans.

No response to the rest of my answer?

[Ling Ling 22]

Hey Pedroh...I know you're part of the choir, but pipe down.

Govt forms should not have a need for asking a citizen their race. All citizens "should" have equal access, treatment, and service to their govt.

Yes...I understand there is a feeling for a need at this time, and it is not completely without mert...but that feeling for the need is part of the problem, not the solution.

There is only one true race, Human.

When we are able to find beings that have different internal organs than we do, then I will CONSIDER that there is a need for a new descriptor.

Until then, the idea of any other "race" has and will only lead to a RACE to the destruction of Humans.

Wow what an ideal world. You know what else I believe?

I believe that children are our future. Teach them well and let them lead the way. Show them all the beauty they possess inside. Give them a sense of pride to make it easier; Let the children's laughter remind us how we used to be.

I want my children to be proud of their heritage in totality, without being limited to the heritage and heros of dark skinned Americans.

You consider yourself "Native-American" or so called Indian as some would say, right?

Do you want your children's heroes to be limited to casino owners, Tonto, and the guy on a wooden nickel?

Hey...we've got that great holiday coming up this Monday when we celebrate your people being "discovered".

"Teach them well and let them lead the way".

It was a Whitney Houston song...remember?

And my child is educated in his race and history and knows who his heroes are.

Yeah, I know it was a song...just wondering if you actually wanted to chime in with your thoughts as a minority...instead of posting lyrics.

[Sprailenes 47]

My thoughts are that I am proud to be a "native american". I wouldn't want to be anything else. I don't have a complex and I don't want to be lumped in with everyone else.

[Giskat09 2]

I travel a lot...mostly Europe and Asia.

When people see me or hear me speak, they say, "You're an American aren't you?".

I puff out my chest and proudly exclaim, "Yes, I'm an American".

That's what happens when I'm in Tokyo or Beijing, when I'm in Paris or London, even when I'm in Canada or Mexico.

But when I get back to the place I was born, the place my parents were born, and the place my grand-parents were born,

they tell me I'm not an American. They tell me I'm an "African-American". Almost an American, but not quite.

Why is it that when Italian immigrants came through Ellis Island, they were called Italian-Americans, but their children

born on US soil were called Americans? The same with the children of Irish-Americans, Polish-Americans, Spanish-Americans and others.

One would think that someone who immigrated from South Africa would be called an "African-American", but since many

South Africans are caucasian, that interferes with America's picture of the so called "African American".

Almost an American, but not quite.

What makes me any less an American than the my neighbor?

Why am I considered an American everywhere but here?

Why am I treated like a first class citizen, bestowing all the rich history of my country, everywhere but at home?

Almost an American, but not quite.

life is like that but for sure you are a PURE AMERICAN.. and nothing to worry

My thoughts are that I am proud to be a "native american". I wouldn't want to be anything else. I don't have a complex and I don't want to be lumped in with everyone else.

wow my husband is native american also but he is half filipino.. he calls himself INDIPINO ehehehe

[Sister Fracas 5]

Well I'm glad to hear that Sister, but I'm afraid there are too many people that are NOT as enlightened as you are.

Funny, nobody ever said McCain or Palin were articulate. But seriously, this term is uses a LOT to describe dark skin Americans.

No response to the rest of my answer?

McCain and Palin articulate? I'm just going to that...

Sure I can answer the rest of it... I don't know if I disagree with all that much of what you are saying...

Most of my friends are pretty intelligent (that is pretty strong requirement or me...it's dangerous to hangout with stupid people, no matter how much you like them).

I agree it's great to have intelligent friends; you can keep each other on your toes mentally...challenging their ideas while still respecting them as people. But intelligence isn't just about formal education, so I may know people who never finished college who I'd respect their knowledge and opinion just as much.

So when my dark skinned American friends use that word, it's usually with a wink. They know how ridiculous it is...and those that don't know...YES, I tell them.

Maybe it's rediculous to you and your friends, and that's something I can't really say if it is or not, but if it means something for someone else to use it to feel empowered or proud, then I don't hold it against them. I may not understand it, but that is their choice and I don't think they are stupid to use it.

When some of my friends need to describe an American with dark skin, we use a code word that many lighter skinned Americans don't even realize.

That code word is "articulate", as in "Barack Obama is very articulate". People use this term and unknowingly are saying, "I thought they all spoke Ebonics".

Is using a code word exclusionary? Just curious. I'd rather have someone tell me exactly why they think I should or shouldn't use a term than to be offended by it and not say anything directly to me. And that just perpetuates continued behavior and can lead to resentment. In other words, if I don't know something is bothering you, how can I change it?

Again, I've yet to find an intelligent and patriotic, person who was not from Africa, who preferred being called an "African American" over being called and American.

I have never once heard someone say that an African American is less American. Not in my circles anyway. I never mentioned preference to the term, just that I've run across people that call themselves African American. I don't think of them as stupid for wanting to use the term. That is their choice.

I understand that because that this term has been promoted by so called "civil rights leaders", but it's in preference to being called colored or the N word.

These so called "civil rights leaders" were not elected or chosen to be representative of Americans with dark skin, and often have their own agenda.

The use of the term goes WAAAAAAAAY beyond civil rights leaders to everyday media, entertainment, culture and so forth. I was recently looking online for a hair care product and stumbled upon a site that was devoted to African American hair. That had nothing to do with civil rights leaders, but a way for "ladies of color" to find resources to help them take care of their hair type... *shrug*.

I really don't let this thing takeover my life, and whatever someone calls me doesn't affect me as much as how someone treats me.

It's good that you don't.

Likewise, I'm not excited that I have the right to sit on the front of the bus. I'm excited that I have the opportunity to drive one of my own cars.

It's cheaper to ride the bus...

Edited October 10, 2008 by Sister Fracas

[Ling Ling 22]

My thoughts are that I am proud to be a "native american". I wouldn't want to be anything else. I don't have a complex and I don't want to be lumped in with everyone else.

Not arguing with you...understanding your point, and agree with it.

NATIVE American is pretty cool..and connotes something entirely different from AFRICAN American (especially when I've never been to Africa and don't have any relatives in Africa).

I think we both understand where we're coming from.

But I wondering how you feel about the term Indian, and the whole Columbus day Thanksgiving thing?

[Sister Fracas 5]

NATIVE American is pretty cool..and connotes something entirely different from AFRICAN American (especially when I've never been to Africa and don't have any relatives in Africa).

What is even more mind boggeling is people who use the term and then express absolutely no desire whatsoever to actually ever know where in Africa their ancestors may have come from.

[Ling Ling 22]

NATIVE American is pretty cool..and connotes something entirely different from AFRICAN American (especially when I've never been to Africa and don't have any relatives in Africa).

What is even more mind boggeling is people who use the term and then express absolutely no desire whatsoever to actually ever know where in Africa their ancestors may have come from.

Eh, Sister...how exactly would one go about doing that?

Let's not confuse desire with being in touch with reality. I mean, there's lots of folks that desire to be married to a super-model, but most of them are in touch with the reality

that most likely their pursuit would be quite fruitless.

As for finding ancestors in Africa, sure someone could pay for a DNA test, and someone could GUESS what tribe they may have come from, but otherwise...tracking the genealogy of slave descendants is a daunting task at best.

Please do tell how one would go about this.

[Sprailenes 47]

My thoughts are that I am proud to be a "native american". I wouldn't want to be anything else. I don't have a complex and I don't want to be lumped in with everyone else.

Not arguing with you...understanding your point, and agree with it.

NATIVE American is pretty cool..and connotes something entirely different from AFRICAN American (especially when I've never been to Africa and don't have any relatives in Africa).

I think we both understand where we're coming from.

But I wondering how you feel about the term Indian, and the whole Columbus day Thanksgiving thing?

I celebrate thanksgiving because I love turkey.

I don't like getting into racial politics in front of everyone because someone is surely to get offended which is why I pm'd you.

Buut...

I personally don't like the term "indian", and I don't care what George Carlin said about it.

If we wanted to get technical we could go by tribes or we could go by "Nishnawbe", but I just say "Native American" because its pretty universal. However, its personal preference as some first nations peoples do not mind the term "indian".

About Columbus, well lets just say I'm not exactly down with him. I think that back then, first nations people were taken advantage of, and we learned from it. I prefer not to stay angry about the things that happened to my ancestors but I acknowledge it, I remember it and I educate myself about it.

On to the topic at hand as discussed with you in PM, we are from two different places. My families history lies in this land for thousands of years, I am native to this land. I don't feel the way you feel, but I could understand the way you feel. I think minorities can easily gain a complex living in this country where you're told you're one thing plus another.

[Sister Fracas 5]

NATIVE American is pretty cool..and connotes something entirely different from AFRICAN American (especially when I've never been to Africa and don't have any relatives in Africa).

What is even more mind boggeling is people who use the term and then express absolutely no desire whatsoever to actually ever know where in Africa their ancestors may have come from.

Eh, Sister...how exactly would one go about doing that?

Let's not confuse desire with being in touch with reality. I mean, there's lots of folks that desire to be married to a super-model, but most of them are in touch with the reality

that most likely their pursuit would be quite fruitless.

As for finding ancestors in Africa, sure someone could pay for a DNA test, and someone could GUESS what tribe they may have come from, but otherwise...tracking the genealogy of slave descendants is a daunting task at best.

Please do tell how one would go about this.

Oh good grief, I think you just want to challenge everything I'm saying...

My point is....there are people who use the term that have no desire in ever setting foot on the continent.

I'm done now because I'm going home and because you seem to misconstrue quite a bit of what I'm saying. Perhaps I'm not clear enough.

Have a nice weekend.